Compelling Raw Milk Evidence? For Opponents, There Is No Such Thing

Demonstrators in support of Michael Schmidt milk a cow outside an Ontario courthouse last fall.

It’s evidence we need to convince the anti-raw-milk public health officials that they are misinformed. Published studies in recognized academic journals.

That’s the insistent argument from Emma G in reference to the endless legal problems dogging raw milk farmer Michael Schmidt. Raw milk opponents could be persuaded, she suggests, if only there were published studies on behalf of raw milk’s safety and benefits. She points out that raw milk proponents in Canada and the U.S. have written hundreds and hundreds of letters in support of raw milk, only to have them completely ignored by Canadian legislators and mostly ignored by American legislators. “The BIG stumbling block is the public health/food safety community pronouncing their ‘expert’ opinion that legalization/expanded-access will result in more outbreaks. The lack of published science to support our side is what is impeding our efforts to get laws changed.”

Ah yes, if only we could present “published science,” the opponents would thank proponents, we’d all sing Kumbaya and everyone would work together to change the laws so consumers could make informed choices to obtain the raw milk and other foods of their choosing.

I’m sorry to be the bearer of bad news, Emma G. and others, but you’re wasting your time. You can present all the published science you want, and the opponents won’t shift in the least. I know it shouldn’t be this way. It seems perfectly logical that public health scientists should be open-minded and rational, but in real life, it doesn’t work that way.

How do I know this? There has been a good deal of published science over the last decade on the benefits of raw milk in helping reduce asthma and allergies among children. One large study of more than 8,000 European children, known as the GABRIELA study,  reported on the reduction, in a 2011 article in the Journal of Allergy and Clinical Immunology, a well respected medical journal.

The study’s authors, scientists from highly respected medical and academic institutions around the world, were firm in their conclusions about the benefits of raw milk, and the absence of such benefits in pasteurized milk. “Reported raw milk consumption was inversely associated to asthma atopy, and hay fever independent of other farm exposures. Boiled farm milk did not show a protective effect.”

The U.S. Centers for Disease Control is well aware of this and other similar studies. You can find its reaction is on a CDC web site: “There are no known health benefits from drinking raw milk that cannot be obtained from drinking pasteurized milk that is free of disease-causing bacteria.” It’s the exact opposite of what the study concluded.

When the experts at the CDC and its apologists at academic institutions are questioned by journalists and others, they discount the GABRIELA study because many of the children in the study lived on farms, they say, where possibly other factors of farm life, like interaction with animals, could be helping promote improved immune system function.

I have pointed out to these experts that the study explicitly states that these other factors were accounted for, and thus didn’t influence the results. As the study states: “The results of this large epidemiologic study add to the increasing body of evidence identifying consumption of farm milk (early in life) to be associated with a reduced risk of childhood asthma and allergies independently of concomitant farm exposures.” (Emphasis added)

These experts ignore the corrections, and continue to state their erroneous interpretation of the results, suggesting that the GABRIELA study wasn’t comprehensive and well constructed, and thus lacks credibility. In other words, evidence that runs counter to their ideology can’t possibly be relevant.

Part of the reason you don’t see objective published studies on the safety of raw milk is that such studies are expensive to carry out. Moreover, academics shy away from seeking funding to carry out the studies because both the academic and government communities avoid proposing them, for fear of alienating the influential processing industry. The studies that are out there suggesting raw milk isn’t safe are basically what I would term “hit jobs”—cherry-picked statistics together with questionable calculations designed to support the preconceived conclusion that raw milk is inherently unsafe, and no more beneficial to health than pasteurized milk.  One that came out recently concludes raw milk is 800 times more risky than pasteurized milk. Yeah, sure.

My advice to the idealists among readers here, located in places like Canada that ban raw milk: Get out there and continue helping farmers like Michael Schmidt make their legal cases in court, keep writing and lobbying your legislators,  and then go out and buy lots of raw milk from farmers brave enough to product it for you, outside of the bans. In the U.S., at least, all these actions have had a significant effect over the past decade, with major states like Ohio, Indiana, Wisconsin, and Maryland pulling back on bans, and allowing at least some raw milk distribution. It takes time and persistence, but positive change can and will happen. Use your time productively, instead of spinning your wheels trying to develop studies the opponents are only going to ignore or find fault with.

49 comments to Compelling Raw Milk Evidence? For Opponents, There Is No Such Thing

  • Mark Mcafee Mark Mcafee

    Amen David!!

    Dollar vote and build huge markets. Bury the paid off acedemics with market strength and Farmers that outlast their struggling conventional counterparts. This is already happening in CA My local county health department inspector had this to say in February 2017 as he made a progress inspection on our new milk barn ” hey Mark, you better hurry up and get this milk barn done, cause I am closing 5 dairies this next couple of months and I need a job”.

    If that is not a truth coming through…. nothing is.

    The science found in the Parsifal, Gabriela, Pasture cohort, Koala, Lmu, and the recent Lalles French Paradox raw cheese study are all unrefuted, peer reviewed published and very well done.

    When ever a scientist says “there is no evidence that raw milk has benefits”. You just heard the statement of a non scientist. That’s a paid spokesman speaking.

    That is why Davids words are golden. Yes we need good science. More importantly, we need great food safety systems. In the end it will be the market examples of places where raw milk is legal ….leading the way. Interstate jealously and the consumer demand for equal food access and nutritional rights.

    The good news ( or sad news ) is that pasteurized milk gets weaker by the day. Literally everyday a dairy is lost in America. Pasteurized milk is in decline. No question. Heat treatment creates an allergic and hard to digest food out of natures greatest whole food.

    One of the greatest slight of hand magical tricks played by researchers that want to hurt good raw milk is this. They test raw milk that is intended for pasteurization and then claim that all raw milk is dangerous.

    This fraud is constant in all studies used hurt raw milk that is produced for human consumption.

    Those paid off researchers never go to dairies that produce clean milk and test or study it!!! That would blow their case!!!

    Enough to piss off the best of us for sure. Very frustrating. So much the fraud. Scientific malpractice!!

    Build big markets and teach teach teach. Time will automatically provide the change. A weakening enemy and a growing raw milk market and the rest will take care of its self.

    Corruption and bias in science is very disheartening.

  • Joseph Heckman

    David, your description of the problem is correct. Being in academia, I have witnessed such examples. I made the published scientific literature easily available for digital sharing among faculty and grad students at my institution. Yet academics go on to talk about or write extension articles about the raw milk movement and they never mention the published evidence for health benefits. And when I go on to point out the important information they ignored and call them out on it as decided failure of scholarship I am said to be “confrontational”.
    Mark McAfee is also correct about the way forward: “Dollar vote and build huge markets.”
    And that is how the organic farming and food movement got noticed. For example: “In 1971, then US Secretary of Agriculture Earl Butz uttered these unsympathetic words: “Before we go back to organic agriculture in this country, somebody must decide which 50 million Americans we are going to let starve or go hungry.” Since then, critics have continued to argue that organic agriculture is inefficient, requiring more land than conventional agriculture to yield the same amount of food. Proponents have countered that increasing research could reduce the yield gap, and organic agriculture generates environmental, health and socioeconomic benefits that can’t be found with conventional farming.” https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2016/aug/14/organic-farming-agriculture-world-hunger
    Now in the 15th edition (year 2017) of the most widely used textbook “Nature and Properties of Soil” to teach soil science around the world there is this acknowledgment (page 1020): “A generation ago, many skeptical agricultural scientists and officials said it would be “impossible” to grow food on a commercial scale using organic farming methods, but organic food now common in modern supermakets and the thousands of organic farms that produce reasonably high yields and make good profits have proved such skeptics wrong”

  • Michael Schmidt

    Thanks David

    It is a twofold problem . number one. There are always people who know how it should be done to convince Government ,but never battle in the trenches, and always know why it never will work how I do things.
    Number two.
    There are Government trolls who invade blogs and create conflict.
    The Bovine Blog was a perfect example how trolls tried to lure me into statements which later were used to incriminate me.
    A dance with the devil within and from the other side.
    Things are defenitly coming to a head here in Canada. At least you know who your real friends are.
    Thank you David for your analytical assessment

  • Ken Conrad Ken Conrad

    Well said David…

    Joseph,

    Secretary of Agriculture Earl Butz’s is at best full of shit and at worst a hypocrite! Indeed, his thought process is indicative of a reductionist approach/attitude towards food production that is unsustainable.
    If government bureaucrats are indeed interested in feeding the populous at large then they aught to work at rectifying the problem of industrial and urban sprawl onto prime agricultural land… In Southern Ontario it is bewildering to witness the amount of farmland that is going out of production for the sake of accommodating and servicing the major city centers such as Toronto. At present governments appear more concerned with introducing collectivist cheap food and so-called safe food and environmental policies that erode private property ownership rights and drive farmers further into never ending debt… all of which has in turn has resulted in the attrition of small family farms.

    • Gordon S Watson

      Ken Conrad … what you describe evidences the outworking of the grand plan, articulated over a century ago entitled “The Protocols”. Especially important in it, is : race traitors in high places cooking-up ” …policies that erode private property ownership rights and drive farmers further into never ending debt”. Congruent with the first plank of the Communist manifesto = elimination of the right to private property.

      what is happening in Europe this very hour – deliberate breakdown the hedges of protection around white Christian societies, so that hordes of non-whites who cleave to anti-Christian religions, flood in to white territory, is another a critical tactic in that scheme, Marshal Mcluhan taught that ” artists and prophetic types are the antennae of the race”…. Dismissing me / my warnings as “insane”, Mister Dutcher is a textbook example of “Boobus Americanus” = refusing to consider the Big Picture ’cause it’s too scary. Confer with the book “It can’t happen here”, popular between World Wars one and two

  • Mark Mcafee Mark Mcafee

    So the lesson here is this: Teach, Build Markets, Stay Safe, Deny them any excuses, Fight when possible, but always spend most of the time teaching and building. The consumers will in the end demand that their democracy reflect their needs. The most powerful message that can be sent in a society is this:

    ” we refuse to buy your dead crap. I instead chose living, whole,safe, raw milk from grass fed cows. That’s my dollar vote!!!”

    Scientists, politicians, legislators, retail stores, even other farmers get this message. That is why organic products are now everywhere. Unfortunately, Organics has lost some of its luster by the usda allowing the processing steps to deprive us of critical nutrition.

    We must define our products and futures and teach it. Dollars will show the way.

    It really upsets me when the usda allowed pasteurized almonds to be labeled as raw. That was a major blow to easy teaching. When our words are stolen!!! That hurts.

  • Emma G.

    David, the proof of the pudding is in the eating. Let’s see what works in Canada: (1) ignoring the law, or (2) organizing and lobbying for change, asking the decision-makers, “What are your conditions for legalizing raw milk?”. Two different approaches being taken in two different provinces: Ontario and B.C. Let’s see which one succeeds, the court room or the board room.

  • Michael Schmidt

    I guess Emma you have not done your homework at all. Ignoring the law is a determination made usually by government agents if you truly would have looked into the issue you would if you would could revise your position that we ignore the law. It’s that kind of rethoric which does not deal with the issue at hand. I was truly hoping the BC group with the new strategy of negotiating towards a solution with the bureaucrats and regulators. So far I haven’t seen anything… the reality is that the raw milk Market is pushed underground. When Alice Jongerden filed the charter application and a group of people wanted to negotiate with the Government, government demanded to withdraw the charter application before any talks can start. Guess what the charter application was withdrawn and apparently nothing happened. Please look at naturalmilk website
    There James McLaren has detailed his 14 year effort to find any possible way to work with bureaucrats and ministries to change existing laws. NOTHING came of it.
    Don’t assume we do nothing but break the law.
    We met with any board possible. Ministers, Members of parliament, and on and on it goes. I am waiting for your success it would make our life much easier believe me. Please don’t brag before the chicken is hatched. You will get all the credits after you succeeded but not now. sorry I heard these phrases too many times

  • Raoul Bedi

    Why isn’t the fact that Germany, a country of 80 million people,along with 20 other European countries, allows retail/farmgate organic raw milk equivalent, if not better, than a few ,negative hodge-podge “peer-reviewed” studies (probably funded by the processed dairy industry) whether or not they have been refuted ?
    What could be a bigger study than that ? You have the multi-year CDC-equivalent statistics from the whole nation to determine whether or not anybody became sick, needed hospitalization or died.

    If the approach is that if you find even one harmful bacteria per billion or trillion in the organic raw milk then it must be harmful , Raw Milk will NEVER BE LEGALIZED IN CANADA.

    I would be interested to know what kind of funding the University of Guelph receives from the DFO as it never ceases to amaze me what kind of of out-dated and obsolete information they continue to put out on this topic . Does the University of Guelph exist in a vacuum where no other international jurisdictions exist or are worth talking to about how Organic Raw Milk can be made safe for human consumption ? I have never heard of a university that does not seriously collaborate with other international partners, entities and universities. I can only conclude that the University of Guelph has become a mouthpiece for the DFO lobby and does not have the slightest interest to research or dialog intelligently on this subject. And since the Province of Ontario only runs to entities like the University of Guelph, we are locked into a perpetual lose-lose situation ?
    Using a similar logic , did it ever occur the Ontario Ministry of Health to “talk” to the equivalent ministries in New York or Michigan or England about how they are so easily able to make Organic Raw Milk available for human consumption. Or is there something uniquely “Canadian ” about the risk of raw milk so that is why we have to ignore what most of the US and Europe are doing ? Are Canadian cows and their milk unusually filthy and toxic ? (I don’t think so ).

  • mark mcafee mark mcafee

    Raoul,

    I have debated the issue with the professor at University of Guelph..he said simply that raw milk was just simply unsafe. It did not matter what I said or how I said it….it was unsafe. Look talking to a red brick.

    That is because this a political thing not a science or safety thing.

    No one will talk about the normalized California raw milk markets….its like we do not exist. To speak of it would be to acknowledge the painful knowledge that raw milk is very safe and it can be done!!

    How do we address this issue if it is purely political. Well….you fight for it. Just like a women’s right to vote or black civil rights. First You have a DREAM…you protest and you fight like hell. All the while you vote with your dollars and you show up…stand up and speak up. Its ugly until magically it is a reality.

    It is time to grab headlines….the women’s rights movement did it in the 1960s and the 1970s. Some group of moms and dads is going to have to go shirtless and topless and breast feed in front of some national place and demand that raw milk be legalized in Canada. If it is not edgy…it will not gain the attention of the national press. Canadians are much too nice for this. But that’s how we do this kind of thing. We get in your face and grab the headlines. Michael is doing his best…

    Time to get ugly and in your face. Pain is the only political force that creates heat and pressure.

  • Mark Mcafee Mark Mcafee

    Raoul,

    If pathogen free Breast milk was regulated…. moms would be prohibited from Breast feeding When raw breast milk was tested at UC Davis, guess what ??? In constrained up to 700 different kinds of bacteria including pathogens!!

    Come to find out pathogens in breast milk play a role in immune development. Babies that are exposed to an occasional bad bug become protected from them. It exercises the immune system to make it stronger.

    Makes you really wonder. Why is it that you never hear about breast feeding babies gettihg HUS?

    It is almost always older kids.

    Something about this.

  • Ken Conrad Ken Conrad

    Austin Bennett is running in 2018 to replace Senator Richard Pan who authored and championed SB277, a bill recently signed into law that removes personal belief exemptions, including religious objections, for vaccinations of school kids.

    http://bennett4senate.org/

    One of his stated objectives is to. “Protect
    Children from forced vaccinations. Forcing vaccinations on children by the government is unconstitutional. The legal decision must be left to the rightful authority of parents”.

  • I. C. PETA_bait

    Please David be mindful of graphics — the poor Guernsey cow in that photograph obviously is emaciated…either chronically ill or nearly starved! Why would we want to bring out questionable props like that poor old rack-of-bones cow if we aim to convince non-believers we are in the right? It’s as if we are incriminating ourselves as we protest. Surely some in the raw milk community have more cow-sense and common-sense than this, David? Are you not able to make the distinction yourself? Don’t hesitate to get help when you need it if you aren’t at all familiar with domesticated livestock.

  • Gordon S Watson

    PETA_bait? one immediately wonders if the “bait” part is a Freudian slip? … I see “Troll-bait”
    if you have the cow-sense to which you allude, you oughta be able to C that that cow in the photo is “thrifty” but in perfectly OK condition

    • Gordon S Watson

      The dangers of ‘salad juice’

      citation from peer-reviewed journal at the bottom

      Gone are the days when people thought the only salads that led to food poisoning were egg and potato salad. Leafy greens can now harbor pathogens as well : green salads are now “the second most common source of outbreaks of foodborne illness”. The danger lies, however, not so much in fresh greens straight from the field, but in packaged pre-torn salad greens. 
 The source of the contamination is varied and includes “animal or insect contacts, soil, contaminated irrigation and wash waters, and nonhygienic equipment and human handling.”
 As more farmers sell pre-cut packaged lettuce at their market stalls and in CSA boxes, hygienic salad preparation becomes a critical issue

      Farmers can work to reduce exposure to pathogens by basic hygiene of farm workers, using clean wash water ( pathogens can be spread by recycling wash water) and ensuring only well-composted manure is used when growing salad greens. After harvest, however, the culprit is “salad juice”, the liquid that comes from cut or damaged salad greens, including the drops of liquid that come from cut stems.


      If disease–causing organisms are present on the greens, the salad juice makes the problem much worse. The researchers looked at salmonella on cut, packaged greens and found that salad juice helped the bacteria spread throughout the package and even stimulated the pathogen’s growth. They found that “salad juice exposure also helped the salmonella cells to attaché to the salad leaves so strongly that washing could not remove them.” Another study found a similar effect with E. coli. The juice also helped the bacteria stick to the packaging. 


      To reduce the growth of the pathogens, the researchers recommend “refrigeration after harvesting and rapid processing and packaging in a modified atmosphere containing reduced oxygen levels.,” but add “despite all these efforts, salad-associated infections still occur.”


      Farmers can find other solutions by avoiding the accumulation of salad juice. Selling head of lettuce rather than pre-cut greens and minimizing damage and cutting of leaves can help reduce the risk.

      Source : Salad leaf juices enhance Salmonella growth, fresh produce colonization and virulence.
      Giannis Koukkiddis, Richard Haigh, Natalie Allcock, Suzanne Jordan and Primrose Freestone.
      Applied and Environmental Microbiology. 2016. Volume 83, issue 1, e02416-16, pp: 1-13

  • Ken Conrad Ken Conrad

    I agree with Gordon… there is nothing wrong with the cow her coat is clean and she looks perfectly healthy for what I presume is a grass fed dairy cow.

    If you want grass fed milk don’t expect your cows to look slick and fleshed out like the ones that are fed a daily diet of grain ration. In fact this cow in the picture is likely much healthier and will live longer then the ones that are fed excessive amounts of a grain ration and who thus tend to accumulate fat in and around their liver, leading to a condition known as fat cow syndrome.

  • Mark Mcafee Mark Mcafee

    IC Peta Bait,

    You are new around here. Who are you? Why don’t you use your real name?The one your mom named you when you were born.
    That cow by the way is just fine. She is not immaciated. I agree she is efficient.

  • Ken Conrad Ken Conrad

    ““The motto of Greenhouse is: ‘Some are red. Some are blue. All are green.’” What it signifies is “that the influence of money on our government isn’t a partisan issue. Whether Democrat or Republican, we should all want a political system that is independent of the influence of big money and not dependent on endless cycles of fundraising from special interests… “In the last 5 years, the 200 most politically active companies in the US spent $5.8 billion influencing our government with lobbying and campaign contributions. Those same companies got $4.4 trillion in taxpayer support – earning a return of 750 times their investment.””

    http://livetheorganicdream.com/17-year-old-built-app-expose-sellout-politicians/

  • mark mcafee mark mcafee

    Here is powerful evidence of: paradigm shift, possible surrender and probable bewilderment.

    I was approached by the Chief Executive of one of the largest conventional dairy coops in CA yesterday. I am not going to mention the name or expose the relationship for obvious reasons.

    That person requested that I speak at an upcoming board meeting to brief them on why the raw milk niche is on fire with buzz and sales and conventional is struggling or worse.

    I was both honored and shocked at the same time. What does this mean…?

    The CEO is smart…yes
    The Coop has finally over come its old guard and the young blood wants to know more…yes
    Dollar voting is extremely powerful and speaks very powerfully….yes.

    My message to them when I speak will be, not to go organic or raw. They do not have the DNA, systems or mechanics to do it. My message to them will be to stop cannibalizing one another and start cooperating. Build a ” quota supply management system” that is good and tight. Be a little more like Canada so the milk markets are not chronically over supplied and farmers can sustain themselves. Dairymen are each others worst enemy in their current over supplied Milk Pool system.

    I am still in shock that a huge dairy coop wants to officially hear from a branded organic raw milk guy.

    This is a sign of massive change. I am very honored to see this starting to happen.

    Wow…..what can I say???

  • Mark Mcafee Mark Mcafee

    The irrational twitterpated psychopathic idiot in the Whitehouse is screwing Farmers. Mexico has sought other trade partners to feed itself. Now trade has been lost and US farmers can not sell their products and prices are falling further.

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-exports-to-mexico-fall-as-uncertainty-over-nafta-lingers-1497605414

    All I ask is that in 3.25 years, we at least elect some one with basic mental health requisites to be our president. This insecure whacko can not restrain himself from twitter and is totally addicted to retribution and striking back at anyone that does not kiss his raw royal ring or his ass.

    I would take Pence over this jerk any day. Now that is a really a desperate admission.

  • Gordon S Watson

    aaahhh!…. now he’s at the next stage in the Twelve Steps to recovery : “bargaining”. Mark McAffee showing signs of progress from Trump Derangement Syndrome

  • Blesse'd are the Cheese Makers

    Observation —

    Today is June 23 and there have been 25 posts on this particular feed compared to the usual 100 or so. I am seeing a trend here as folks grow weary of McAfee’s whiny, far left rants. Soon, there will only be about 12 to 15 posts on here, and they will all be by Mark McAfee.

    Mark. You’ve got to move on, son. Trump is living in your head, rent free and it is making you sick.

    Just look at the Georgia special election where the Democrats were once again (in their own echo chamber) going to come back and show Trump a thing or two. And they LOST once again.

    Lots of folks in this country. Most of them don’t agree with the far left folks like Nancy Pelosi, Chuckie “Cry Baby” Schumer, Hollywood Nutflakes and Mark McAfee.

    Go milk some cows, Mark, and give it a rest.

  • Bleesed Cheese Maker,

    Not going anywhere…..the Right is so frickin Undereducated. They have elected an idiotic psychopath against their own interests.
    When the Right Wing coal miner High-school drop- outs discover that their billionaire superman has taken their health insurance, made them even poorer, has scalped farmers of export opportunities with Mexico, reduced Cuba to an isolated island instead of a new trade partner, ….the right will wake up. As for you….no words to describe a no name follower of a mental patient.

    Call me any names you want. The truth will set me free. Just a matter of time.

  • Cheese maker,

    Read all of Trumps lies. They are nicely chronicled and even charted on a calendar to review.
    He is the greatest liar of all time. And you love him ? Says so much of you!! With a 33% public support rating….it is the lowest since modern collection of this data. It time for him to move on.

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/06/23/opinion/trumps-lies.html?smtyp=cur&mtrref=t.co&assetType=opinion&mtrref=www.nytimes.com&assetType=opinion

    • blesse'd are the cheese makers

      You’ve pretty much made my point, Mr. McAfee. There are 30 posts on here at this point in time (this one makes 31) and you’ve put 10 of them on here.

      You cite the NY Times. What a trash rag. The NY Slimes has fallen into the same tar pit that it’s cousin CNN is stuck in — dinosaurs that are slowing sinking in their own cesspool of manure, dirt, tar and slime.

      You make no point citing the NYT. Not to me. Yes, David, there was maybe a time that the NYT was stellar. Back in the days you wrote for them. But not now. Not anymore. The NYT is of no relevance except to snowflakes and as something to point to as extremely biased and extremely twisted “journalism.” (And I insult the word “journalism” when I use the NYT in the same sentence).

  • America and its citizens should measure our position in the world by how much we trade, share and care…not placing ourselves first at the expense of everyone else. Greed does not lead. Greed leads to hatred and suppression of others…not just in America but all around the world

  • Gordon S Watson

    “time to move on” …. you got that part right, Mr McAffee. Start wit’ you-little-ol-self. Your genius with educating and merchandising, is one of the major factors in the success of the Campaign for REAL MILK. But when it comes to politics, you’re worse than an idiot ; you’re a menace. Your rhetoric is directly fungible to the gunfire at the Republican baseball practice.

    Your comments on this forum embarrass yourself the very same way you fault PRESIDENT Trump. Apparently you lack the simple essential of good sportsmanship, so you’re stuck in apoplexy … un-able to come to terms with the basic fact = the Electorate rejected your wicked candidate. Word is ; neither can she = lately she’s putting away a couple of bottles of wine per day. As you dump your toxic political pus into this forum … you alienate people who were ( past tense) your supporters. Every time you do, you confirm the opinion of those on this forum over the years, who said “it’s all about Mark, isn’t it?”

    thinking Americans are well-aware that Donald Trump is only a cartoon character in the Punch&Judy show to which politics has deteriorated in this sorry nation … the major villain necessary for the media circus. take your Romper Room level of analysis elsewhere

    One sure sign of your stupidity on political science, is : mindlessly beating that tired old drum of the “right left” paradigm. UN-learning that bit of communist doctrine, would be a start in recovering your mental health.

  • My past supporters??

    Let each person chose what they drink and who they trust.

    I have spent plenty of time at our many farmers markets here in CA to reach out to our customers. Love of brand has never been greater.

    Compassion for humanity rises far above Greed and base Vitriol
    Sharing far above Selfishness
    Tours of the Farm far above seclusion and no trespassing signs.

    If I have alienated some past supporters…so be it. If compassion, sharing, caring, invitation, mentoring, hugs and love….alienates somd people, then I pity them and invite them to reevaluate their life value concept. It is obvious that these words just drive both you and Cheese Maker nuts.

    Sounds like I need to keep the words and acts of compassion flowing…..

    • blesse'd are the cheese makers

      What a hypocrite! “Compassion, sharing, caring, invitation, mentoring, hugs and love . . .” my hind end. You remind me of the girl on “The Exorcist”, spewing out green pea soup while your head spins around.

    • Gordon S Watson

      there are none so blind, as those who WILL NOT see. Mister McAffee, your recent-most post proves you are oblivious to the main thrust of my criticism, which is = this forum being poisoned with your hyper-chauvinism. Sure … everyone likes the nice little warm fuzzy snapshots of you out pressing the flesh at farmers’ markets. Which is how it ought to way be. But I bet you don’t unload your rants about PRESIDENT Trump … telling them that you side with the thugs at Berkeley as your pals – so-called “AntiFa” commies – take their hatred to the streets? No … you have enough sense of selfpreservation to keep your insanity to yourself, when out merchandising. The young moms whom you extol … so happy to buy your product … never find out what an asshole you are, when demonic Mister Hyde takes over your Doktor Jeckel personality

      so I re-iterate : quit dumping your toxicity on this forum, and post it on the Organic Pastures website … after which we’ll compare notes as to whether raw milk customers share your political views

    • Gordon Watson

      thank you, Mister McAffee, for coming up with precisely the word I was searching-for = “vitriol” Half a century ago, Buckminster Fuller taught me : “human beings can learn at any age”. See if you can muster a scintilla of GENUINE goodwill, so as to reconsid the mountain of manure you piled-up on this forum since last summer … all too obviously festering-away in the dark corners of your heart.

      It takes a real man to admit he made a mistake. Then he corrects. Celebrity foodie Mark McAffee made a profound mistake when he let the media cartoon of The Donald overcome his natural logical mind. The record shows that about last August, you threw yourself into the hysteria of the campaign, spewing vitriol worse and worse.
      PRESIDENT Trump … a guy whom you’ve never met in person. But you’re so sure you hate him … yeah, right

      if you actually believe that one human being is single-handedly responsible for what’s going on, on America’s political stage, then you’re a complete moron

  • blesse'd are the cheese makers

    “James Comey outs NYT for ‘fake news'”, Cheryl K. Chumley, “The Washington Times”, June 8, 2017, re: alleged Russia/Trump collusion

    “Benjamin Netanyahu Slams CNN, NYT as ‘fake news'”, Jessica Chasmar, “The Washington Times”, May 8, 2017, re: false reporting regarding Palestinian terrorist group Hamas

    “NYT corrects fake news editorial blaming Sarah Palin for shooting”, Joel B. Pollak, Breitbart, June 15, 2017, re: recent Steve Scalise shooting

    Too many to count, but the constant droning about Trump/Russian collusion when, to this date, not one shred of evidence has been produced to support this allegation, and the NYT and CNN are leading the pack on this blatant lie anyway . . . (Never let the facts get in the way of a good story with political implications, right?)

    By the way, I concede that there are probably many well written and carefully researched articles in the NYT. But . . . once they get caught in a blatant attempt to spin certain allegations out of thin air, with absolutely no hard evidence to support their position, citing only “anonymous” sources, they tend to lose credibility for even when they are on point. But that’s just me, IMO.

    • David Gumpert David Gumpert

      Proof of the pudding in our market economy is bottom line results, and the reality is that NYTimes readership and revenues have soared over last three years. That’s because more people looking for news sources they can trust.
      From Motley Fool: “Acknowledging that ‘single most important factor’ to the recent success of NYT has been the “extraordinarily intense news cycle,’ CEO Mark Thompson continued to attribute the tremendous growth in digital subscribers from 799,000 in Q1’14 to 2.201 million in Q1’17 to a perceived increase in value of reliable news by all demographics, particularly millennials. Total revenue increased 5.1%. Circulation revenue increased 11.2%, driven by growing demand for digital and increased home delivery revenues (driven by higher prices), slightly offset by a decline in revenue from single-copy sales…”

      https://www.fool.com/quote/nyse/the-new-york-times/nyt

  • blesse'd are the cheese makers

    Wow. That’s not what the Wall Street Journal reported just a few months ago.

    “New York Times Profit Slumps; Print Ad Sales Drop 19%”

    “Overall advertising revenue decreases 7.7% in the third quarter (2016)

    By Tess Stynes and Lukas I. Alpert

    Updated Nov. 2, 2016 5:36 p.m. ET

    “New York Times Co. said its third-quarter earnings fell sharply as print advertising dropped 19%, the latest publisher to signal that spending on newspaper ads is drying up even further.”

    “Publishers have made plans to further trim their staffs and shift resources to more digital initiatives as advertising demand is forecast to remain weak.”

    I see that you limit your comment to “digital” print and “recently.” Whatever the case, if the NYT has managed to stop its free fall into oblivion and stop the bleeding it has experienced over the last few quarters, then, you must admit, Donald Trump is the main reason for the turn around (in digital print).

    They are still laying off people and the printed newspaper is becoming obsolete.

    By the way, I do not necessarily agree with the conclusions of the article you cite without further explanation of the balance sheet and the P&L for NYT. It hardly rises to the level of “proof in the pudding” at face value of this piece you cite. No offense to you . . .

    • David Gumpert David Gumpert

      The real proof of the pudding is that NYTimes stock price is up about 50% over last year.

      Here is what Motley Fool (which has an excellent stock picking record) said last month in recommending the stock:
      “There’s nothing fake about The New York Times’ (NYSE: NYT) recent success. Total revenue increased 5.1% and circulation revenue rose 11.2% in the first quarter, led by growing demand for digital access and increased home delivery revenues (driven by higher prices). Advertising sales fell 6.9% as the print business declined by 17.9%, but the 18.9% increase in digital advertising gives us confidence that management has some ideas for reaching the hordes of new users who have signed on since the election — digital subscribers have surged from 799,000 three years ago to about 2.2 million now. Many of those subscribers signed up on promotional deals, which is pushing down average revenue per user now and will continue to do so in the future. That makes it even more important that the Times hold on to those readers when their deals expire and they have to renew at higher rates. But we think the brand power and resources of the nation’s “newspaper of record” will keep it at the front of the pack in a new media era.”

      “https://www.fool.com/premium/stock-advisor/coverage/18/coverage/updates/2017/05/12/best-buys-now-team-david-2.aspx#nyt

      No question, old-line print newspapers have struggled mightily over last decade, and some have gone under. My point is that all the political upheaval of last year has benefited mainstream pubs that have stuck to high journalistic standards (like NYTimes, Washington Post). All the arrows from people like you have clearly had their benefits. Look a little closer–may be an investment opportunity for you!

      • blesse'd are the cheese makers

        Well, based on that, I’ll put a “buy” in for a thousand shares of NYT tomorrow morning.

        Thanks for the hot tip, David.

    • Gordon S Watson

      for comic relief, take the print media conglomerates in Canada ( Please!, as old Henny Youngman would say of his mother-in-law) 2 major players = the Trawna Grope&Flail, and the National Post. Now suckholing for the federal government to let them syphon $350 million out of the public purse so they can continue as propaganda outfalls. Of course acres of newsprint are being expended justifying ordinary taxserfs subsidizing monster corporations, but, of course, it’s fait accomplis. all that needs be said, is : “he who pays the piper, calls the tune”

  • John Dutcher

    David, Mark and a few other sane people on here,
    You cannot teach someone that knws it all.
    Gordon,
    Are you Canadian?

  • John,

    Looks like some activity in Humboldt County. The locals are pretty upset that they can not get raw milk at the local store….yet they can legally UPS order it at great expense. The locals are banding together and politicking the board of supervisors to get a vote this fall and this rediculous ordinance changed.

  • Gordon S Watson

    rumor has it that the good citizens of Humbolt County, politicking to move the Board of Supervisors to change policy, will call Mark McAffee as their expert witness. Apparently Mister McAffee says he has hard evidence of a grand conspiracy, masterminded by Donald Trump! … regardless of the topic, large or small = ‘it’s all the fault of The Donald’

  • Gordon S Watson

    I guess my attempt at satire was too subtle for you, Mister Odegaard? Levity being a classic antidote for the hysteric … ie Mark McAffee, in his alternate personality, lost in the throes of Trump Derangement Syndrome

  • Mark Mcafee Mark Mcafee

    Gordon,

    After speaking with one of your BC Canada raw milk activists, it appears that I am being invited to speak this fall and try and jump start more education, inspiration of the most recently elected new government officials and generally get raw milk stuff done in your back yard.

    May I invite you and suggest that you assist in this regard by doing a little teaching and inspiring yourself. Reports have it that some of the cow shares are struggling and need more members to stay viable.

    That means you….. Canada needs you to do a little teaching. How about it. Lets all teach together so we can build strong markets. Raw milk is a “we can build it plan”. Sorry for the borderline socialist commentary. Even the thought of sharing, caring or mentoring must drive you nuts. Please…. just just have a mental breakdown, recover quickly and become a little more moderate in your come to Jesus new life. We need you alive and well for more educational work this fall.

  • Mark Mcafee Mark Mcafee

    You know Gordy, that while I was in the EU for three weeks in May, I did not meet one single solitary person that liked Trump, trusted Trump, or understood why anyone would vote for Trump. In fact there was consensus that Trump was scarier than hell, a pathological liar ( lied so much he didn’t know he was lying ) and wrecking everything good that has been built in last 50 years by both Dems and Reps leaders and other world leaders and reminded many of Hitler in the mid to late 1930s. As a Canadian, where do you fit in with your closely allied brothren in the EU?

    I cherish my Gordie Given title of Trump Derangement Syndrome. It is aka…sanity.

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