Say what you will about food poison lawyer Bill Marler, he’s done an impressive job of establishing his main blog (his law firm runs some dozens) as a scientific resource that is cited by public health and regulatory officials in the same breath with academic journals when it comes to discussions about raw milk. At the American Veterinary Medical Association symposium on raw milk in July, a number of speakers cited his blog’s literature reviews—pros and cons—on raw milk in their presentations.
Now, you could argue that’s a commentary on the sad state of affairs in the arena of research affecting raw milk, where much of the academic literature essentially amounts to propaganda and diatribes that mouth the long-term fear campaigns mounted by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration and the U.S. Centers for Disease Control. But clearly, the lawyer has done some work to surround himself with credible scientific types who have helped differentiate his writings so that they discuss the issue more rationally than other mainstream sources.
I make these observations because the Marler blog’s latest venture in the raw milk arena is a four-part series comparing the food safety records of pasteurized and unpasteurized milk—the first an overview, and the second an examination of the challenge of pathogens in raw and pasteurized milk. The series is technically a response to the Weston A. Price Foundation, and its response to earlier literature reviews on the Marler blog.(A response to a response—got that?)
While I have no doubt this series will conclude that pasteurized milk is much safer than raw milk, the current posting on the pathogen challenge is intriguing for some new, and seemingly open-minded, things it says.
For example:
- There’s an acknowledgment of the contention by raw milk proponents that there are two kinds of raw milk in this country—the stuff produced by conventional dairies that is often contaminated, and the stuff produced by raw dairies, this is much less frequently contaminated because the farmers take a number of special steps ranging from animal diet to special sanitation measures to protect against pathogens. In the process, the Marler blog piece takes direct issue with a recent paper in the journal, Foodborne Pathogens and Disease. As Steve Bemis noted in a comment on my previous post, that paper used data about milk from conventional dairy bulk tanks to argue that raw milk is inherently dangerous. “The Weston A. Price Foundation has raised a valid concern about using these surveys when assessing the occurrence of foodborne pathogens in commercial raw milk (e.g., raw milk sold legally on- or off-farm in the US),” it states.
- It acknowledges that pasteurized milk can be seriously contaminated. It points to a 1984 and a 2000 case to illustrate how contamination usually occurs.
- It makes important distinctions in the arguments over competitive exclusion. For example, it points out that refrigeration is an important determinant in whether pathogens multiply in all milk, whether conventional or from grass-fed cows. But rather than simply de-bunking the notion of grass-fed milk overwhelming pathogens, it points out that the research on this subject is incomplete in terms of drawing big conclusions. “Briefly, the scientific evidence at this time does not support a broad conclusion that grass feeding significantly and consistently reduces the risk of E. coli O157:H7 or other dangerous foodborne pathogens from entering the food chain. More importantly, none of the surveys or experiments that WAPF cites examined raw milk operations, and instead focused primarily on dietary effects for cattle in feedlot conditions.”
Now, admittedly, this paper will irritate raw milk proponents on a number of counts. For example, it suggests that safely produced raw milk doesn’t have probiotic properties because it doesn’t in its purest state contain significant amounts of either good or bad bacteria.
Indeed, it makes this intriguing observation: “Sanitation during milking and processing at a raw milk dairy to prevent pathogens from entering the milk will very likely also lower the levels of probiotic bacteria…studies are needed to measure the species and concentration of ‘good’ bacteria in commercial raw dairy products to determine if they are sufficient to confer a probiotic effect.”
Whatever the merits of that argument, the review makes no allowance for the presence of naturally occurring enzymes, nor for the adverse effects on milk chemistry from pasteurization. Nor does it allow for the many anecdotal examples of health benefits from raw milk that consumers have reported.
One final item worth noting: this review by the Marler blog comes on the heels of the paper I referred to in the journal, Foodborne Pathogens and Disease, which also shows signs of flexibility on the subject of raw milk (and contains a number of interesting charts about raw milk availability and coliform standards around the country). Rather than simply arguing for a blanket avoidance of raw milk, it grudgingly allows that consumers are and will continue to demand raw milk, and concludes, “Dairy producers supplying raw milk must be well informed on the risks and liabilities associated with the milk they sell. Enhanced educational efforts targeting consumers is essential…”
It concludes on a negative note: “While all these efforts may be able to reduce the risks associated with rawmilk consumption, the only sure way to prevent raw milk–associated foodborne illness is for consumers to refrain from drinking raw milk.”
It’s easy to ridicule these small openings in the discussion, but I see them as holding significance. For someone like Bill Marler, who has close ties to the regulators and public health community, to deviate from the party line as much as he does begins to send a message of some level of acceptance of the idea that raw milk can be produced safely. Progress oten comes in small steps.
***
There is some pretty amazing commentary following my previous post. Is that an apology from Mark McAfee of Organic Pastures Dairy Co. to Mary McGonigle-Martin? She makes a strong argument for changes to the story about her case from the Weston A. Price Foundation. We catch another glimpse of the softer, and inspiring, side of Hugh Betcha. We learn Lykke not only isn’t from the CIA, but is trying to live a sustainable model. And lots more about the double standards employed by the public health community to raw milk.
Thank you for the heartfelt apology. I appreciate your kind gesture. I do want to acknowledge that your family also suffered throughout the outbreak and litigation ordeal and I am sorry for that.
Both of our families have suffered deeply. The outbreak is in the past and a legal settlement was reached. I agree with you that it is mentally and spiritually healthy for both of us to move forward.
Over the past 3 years you have made numerous false statements about Chris illness and I can accept that you may have gotten some facts confused, but the most hurtful was claiming the video of Chris was somehow not an accurate portrayal of his suffering; that it had been altered.
There is still the issue of certain items of misinformation that need to be removed from further public reading, as well as Sally Fallons role in disseminating false information about my sons illness. I will address this in another post.
One again, thank you for the apology.
Mary
If I got the sequence wrong or Chris went from better to worse after I visited your family at Loma Linda and I did not understand the exact chain of events….I apologize for not having it all correct.
The pain that this litigation and illness has caused has been tough on all of us. The incident did not pass with out some lessons learned. At OPDC we have increased our testing of manure ( we sample all cows to find pathogens routinely with our safety plan ) and test our raw dairy products even more than before the incident for pathogens. Even though no pathogens were found….I do not care. I do not want any needles to get past us in any haystack of random chance.
I am a positive Karma guy….and want to leave this world a better place by feeding people whole unprocessed safe whole biodiverse enzyme rich food. I know that there are risks in this endeavor that are accompanied by tremendous benefits and nothing good was ever free or cheap. As a pioneer I will take some arrows and learn from them.
Please accept a big hug and another round of apologies for the pain that this incident caused your family and your son. When my daughter Kaleigh was just 10 years old she nearly died from Meningicoccal Septicemia. I know what it feels like to be told that your child may not be alive in a few hours and watch her desparatley struggle for life under the white sheets of a ICU bed. I know….
No Marler or money or blame or anything changes that pain.
Time and forgiveness helps and heals….just be blessed that Chris is thriving. So many kids and families are less fortunate. That is one of the reasons I am so passionate about strong immune systems and natural prevention methods. Our medical doctors…although they try their very best….have a partial tool chest of interventions, many with horrible side effects. I am dedciated to being part of the prevention to avoid illness to begin with. Lets let this episode go to a resting place. We both have our theories and feelings and they will never to the same or reconciled.
That does not matter….forgiveness and Chris doing well does.
Most kind regards,
Mark
It pleases me to hear that you are taking all necessary steps to assure the safety of your raw milk. The fact that you were outsourcing products during the timeframe of the 2006 outbreak was quite disturbing. I hope this practice has been stopped.
Also, I do appreciate your kind words of forgiveness and healing. As you know, a settlement for our case was reached in April 2009. You posted the information below in June 2009. The majority of the facts are wrong. After 3 long years of emotional turmoil, I guess many facts got skewed a bit.
To demonstrate your sincerity and to reach a place of forgiveness and healing, this is the first place that false information needs to be removed. Please contact the owner of this blog and have fact #1, 2, 3, 7, 10, & 11 removed, as well as the very last sentence, from your evidence list. These statements are all false.
http://www.listen2yourgut.com/blog/gut/is-raw-milk-safe/
Thank you,
Mary
Some hard data from Sept 2006 Organic Pastures Dairy Raw Milk recall:
1. Only two kids were hospitalized as a result of the recall. The state had initially claimed that up to four or maybe even sex kids had been sickened. When the search for sick kids was completedonly two were ever sick.
Fact: This outbreak involved 6 kids who become ill from E.coli 0157:H7 infection. 5 of the 6 had matching genetic fingerprints. Two developed HUS, Chris Martin and Lauren Herzog, and were hospitalized for a significant period of time. The four other children did not develop a serious enough case of E.coli 0157:H7 to be hospitalized, however they were ill enough for doctors to culture a stool sample. Ill means they probably had a painful, extreme case of diarrhea that lasted 7-10 days.
2. The two sick kids recovered fully in less than four weeks and have no remaining illness or injury.
Fact: Lauren was in the hospital for 5 weeks and Chris for 8. Lauren has stage one kidney disease as a result of ingesting a pathogen. She takes medication to assist her kidneys in operating correctly.
3. The two sick kids did not have matching pathogens. One had E.coli 0157:H7 and the other did not have that pathogen and instead had Shigella.
Fact: Laurens stool culture tested positive for E.coli 0157:H7 and Chris stool samples never tested positive for any bacteria, however, it did test positive for the Shiga toxin, although this was verbally told to us in the hospital. We did not find a positive test in the medical records. In the United States, a child cant develop diarrheal HUS without first having E.coli.
4. No Organic Pastures Dairy company (OPDC) product had any pathogens found in them.
Fact: Not at the time of the 2006 recall. The products were pulled from the shelves September 22nd. Chris and Lauren consumed OPDC raw milk between September 2nd and 4th. Approximately 18 days passed before any product was tested. There was not a product available to test with the expiration dates the Martins and Herzogs had on their milk bottles. In the past, Listeria was found in his bottled cream. However, Mark doesnt count this because it was cream that had been outsourced.
5. No milk cow at OPDC had any pathogen found in their manure tests. The three E.coli 0157:H7 positive cows were not in the milk herd and were not milk cows. They were young heifers and the pathogen that they had was a different and unrelated genetic fingerprint than the sick child. The DHS concluded that no cows at OPDC were connected by DNA fingerprint to any person or the sick child.
Fact: the cows were tested in late October and early November. The outbreak occurred in early September.
6. None of the hundreds of products tested by OPDC had any pathogens detected in them.
Fact: same as # 4
7. The two kids medical records both show that they had eaten raw CA Salinas spinach in the days prior to becoming ill.
Fact: Chris Martin also ate Spinach, but it was not Dole Packaged Spinach that was implicated in the recall. He ate spinach that was purchased from an open bin at the local health food store. Lauren Herzog did not eat spinach.
8. The so-called raw milk outbreak occurred during the very peak of the spinach crisiswhen not one pathogen had ever been detected in six year of intensive raw milk testing by CDFA and OPDC. Statistically this a very suspect. It appeared to us that there were additional spinach genetic fingerprints that the spinach people refused to acknowledge.
Fact: Once again spinning the facts. Same as # 7
9. About 40,000 additional raw milk consumers drank the same raw milk and no other persons got sick!
Fact: Six children were sick enough to be taken to the doctors and have stool samples tested or to be placed in the hospital. This does not mean that other children or adults were not sick during this time period from OPDC raw milk. It only means it wasnt documented.
10. Kids in the same families that drank raw milk and did not eat spinach did not get sick.
Fact: same as # 7. Also, it is very common for a family to all eat a contaminated food source and not everyone becomes ill.
11. The two kids that got sick were both given antibiotics when they were wearing bracelets that warned medical providers to not give antibiotics because an antibiotic-resistant pathogen was suspected. Doctors screwed up and gave huge dosages of antibiotics to these kids and within hours they nearly died.
Fact: This is a complete fabrication. This did not happen and it is not documented in the medical records. It was an idea that we had after the fact. This idea was document in a newspaper article. http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2006/11/26/news/californian/20_59_3711_25_06.txt
The Martins said they are also in the process of meeting with a few hospital ombudsmen to make sure that what happened to Chris does not happen to another child.
They said that if the first doctor Chris saw when he went into the hospital on the first night would have put a wristband on him noting that he should not receive a dose of antibiotics, then the second doctor may not have administered the dose that sent Chris spiraling into trauma.
"All they needed was one little wristband," Mary said.
12. The state gave OPDC their raw milk permit back 10 days after it was suspended. The findings concluded that pathogens could not be found at OPDC or in any of our products.
Fact: Same as # 4
What I find outrageousis thisthree people died in Massachusetts in 2007 from perfectly pasteurized milkyet it is hardly news. We are blamed with two illnesses, which fully recover, and we are huge newsthere is something wrong about this.
Fact: Both children did not fully recover. Lauren Herzog has stage one kidney disease. The Massachusetts story was big news and Im sure the families are suing the dairy. What made the OPDC outbreak such a big deal was that two children almost died and they happened to be at the same hospital.
– Mark McAfee
Probiotics: Looking Underneath the Yogurt Label
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/29/health/29well.html?_r=1
Charges possible in raw milk case
http://walworthcountytoday.com/news/2009/sep/29/charges-possible-raw-milk-case/
I feel so badly about what you’ve gone through. Trying to think of fixes…I think the lack of comments on Bill Marler’s post here suggests that raw milk advocates mostly cannot stand up and keep a straight face when presenting information to their customers about the safety, or lack thereof, for raw milk. At the same time, FDA, CDC, and the scientific community remains quite in this debate, only repeating an overzealous attack against raw milk, but not contributing a thing about how to make it safer. This is a problem because people want access to the product, no matter how much "we" try to promote education to not drink it.
Until middle ground is found, this debate is probably endless, hopeless.
-Blair
The key here is that policy makers listen to all that garbage. It is quite bad enough that government feels completely comfortable implementing controls on legal behaviors; when lawmakers hide behind presumed science their crazy rules can be impossible to overturn. Those few who might otherwise have a twinge of conscience over chaining up a fellow human being suddenly feel justified.
Americans ought now to be screaming bloody murder, as many are in New York where a giant step toward totalitarianism has been taken by mandating flu vaccines for healthcare workers. It is truly unbelievable that forced vaccination could be happening at all, but I doubt if such madness could have taken hold except that it has been ginned up by science. (How ironic that hospitals professing to do no harm have become lackeys for a power-hungry propaganda machine.) A pharmacist who works with me said it best when he suggested that they ought to just aerosolize the inoculation and lead people from train cars into buildings to dose them.
Since the once beloved dictum In God We Trust is now mere words, I propose a new motto for America: Often wrong, but by god, never in doubt.
The solution, of course, will not be found in any so-called middle ground, where some freedoms are stolen away and others left intact. The only solution is to return to our founding principle that every man owns himself, and no other man may take away ANY of his natural rights.
Listen to a speech by Dr Ron Paul as he talks about our nations present dire situation and even RAW MILK.
http://thebovine.wordpress.com/
John Tesh on his weekly informational radio show said somethign very compelling yesterday.
Researchers when following miles behind chicken trucks with open windows in their cars ( in the eastern US ) took samples of surfaces in their cars and of the airguess what.? They were covered with Salmonella.
So the human immune system is critical. If little amounts of pathogens are everywhere, then our best protection is to be immune from them. Avoidance is an invitation to serious illness and worse.
So all of you pathogen bacteriaphobics.drink some biodiverse raw milk and start doing your immune system pushups or get sick with the rest of the weak and soon to be sick.
Remember this also.raw milk that is retail approved must be 100% pathogen free. That means cleaner than the air found driving down the street miles behind a chicken truck.
The earthly petri dish we all live in is not sterile.so lets get over it. It is the lack of personal responsibility to build imunity and sterile diets with the antibiotic abuse that is central to this theme but never spoken of.
Adapt through immunity or die off. Harsh but very accurate.
Mark McAfee
Lierre Keith last blog entry has interesting overtones on the irony of raw milk being illegal in Humboldt County.:
http://lierrekeith.wordpress.com/
She is the author of The Vegetarian Myth: Food, Justice and Sustainability
http://www.lierrekeith.com/work.htm
Chris Lewis
I’ve been watching the NY mandating vaccinations for health care workers. What’s to stop them from forcing anything else on people? I’d be out of a job if I lived in NY. I didn’t read the whole story, but think NJ is making the flu vaccs mandatory for school children also. Another state to avoid.
Regarding Probiotics, Is it fermentation that allows these bacteria to grow? Does it require raw foods to grow, or is a synthetic additive required? (I know they die at certain temperatures) Kinda like the buttermilk sold in stores, it doesn’t look like the butter milk I get when I make raw butter. Maybe I’m doing something wrong?