Dairy farm owner Doug Stephan pleads his case for legalizing raw milk to Framingham Board of Health.
After all the debate and discussion on this blog and in various media, there was something surrealistic about being in a legally binding open forum discussion about whether raw milk should be allowed in the town of Framingham, MA.
In many ways, it mirrored the debate that’s occurred here and elsewhere on the Internet, with passionate arguments among regulators. However, the 50 or so consumers who showed up were overwhelmingly in favor of legalization, with only one speaking out against raw milk.
A woman from the Ukraine, who said raw milk was regularly delivered in her city of one million, said that when she came to the U.S. a few years ago, “I could not believe a free country would regulate raw milk to such a point that I would have to travel many miles to get it.”
A Framingham town meeting member said she had gotten together with nine other town meeting members to discuss the issue. “At first I was skeptical. I have since come around to support it.” All nine of her colleagues came to support it as well, she said. “I choose not to drink raw milk, but I support the right.”
Framingham is a large town, population 67,000, about 20 miles west of Boston, and local radio personality Doug Stephan, owner of one of the last remaining dairy farms in the area, wants to sell raw milk to gain some positive cash flow, what with his chain of radio stations being hammered by the recession.
The town’s Board of Health needed to approve the raw milk sale so Doug could apply to the state’s Department of Agricultural Resources, which issues licenses for sale directly from farms. When 75 proponents showed up for a hearing last month, the board continued the matter until last night’s meeting.
Michael Hugo, the board’s chairman, and a personal injury lawyer, indicated the sensitivity of the matter when he opened the discussion by saying, “No more hiding.”
The board’s director and legal counsel, Ethan Mascoop, said the board has been lobbied on both sides of the issue by other state regulators—the state’s Department of Agricultural Resources had written a letter strongly supporting Doug Stephan, saying the high prices being paid for raw milk represented “a silver lining” that has helped the 26 farms in the state licensed to sell it survive an otherwise nasty economic environment.
The Massachusetts Department of Public Health also wrote a letter, diametrically opposed, saying it “continues to have grave concerns about the safety of raw milk” as “a significant public health threat.”
There followed three hours of discussion, during which time yours truly tried to provide perspective on the situation nationally, as well as locally. I took issue with the state’s Department of Public Health, arguing that while raw milk may be riskier than pasteurized milk, neither kind of milk is anything approaching a serious public health risk. I wondered how the public health people could say raw milk represents a “significant public health threat” when the state hasn’t had a single illness for more than ten years, since a group of boy scouts became ill in 1999 during a visit to a farm.
Michael Hugo, the chairman, interrupted me to say he had investigated the 1999 illnesses and that those kids had not only never before consumed raw milk, but had been given milk from a vat intended for pasteurization. I hadn’t realized that, but that just made my case stronger.
In the end, the three-person board was split. Nelson Goldin made clear he favored legalization. Tammy Harris, a physician, said she wouldn’t be persuaded. “It’s hard for me to forget about all the history. I don’t see a reason to change the status quo with regard to pasteurization.
That left it up to Michael Hugo, the chairman. “When I started out, there was not way in hell we were going to allow raw milk in Framingham,” he said. “I have now come full circle.” A visit to Doug Stephan’s farm had helped convince him, he said.
The vote was two-to-one in favor of allowing Doug Stephan to sell raw milk from his farm.
It was a tedious session, at times, and there are still some regulations to be written. But in the end, consumers made their wishes known, and the regulators overcame their prejudices and did the right thing.
Whenever someone brings up the boy scouts case I stop them and point out that the milk in question was NOT from a farm licensed for raw milk by DAR and so the comparison is irrelevant. The protocols in place in MA for licensed raw milk have a 100% track record of safety. I’m impressed that Board Member Hugo heard me and repeated it.
It’ll be great to add Doug’s farm to our list.
Winton Pitcoff, Coordinator
Massachusetts Raw Milk Network
To the Ukraine woman who "could not believe a free country would regulate raw milk to such a point that I would have to travel many miles to get it, it really does make sense. It is all about the money. Big business has a ton to gain from long shelf life and a generally sick population.
For Tammy Harris, the physician who said "Its hard for me to forget about all the history. I dont see a reason to change the status quo with regard to pasteurization." WHAT HISTORY????? Wow does she have her head in the sand… For thousands of years people have drank milk and this milk problem hasn’t been an issue for that long. Also I would bet that the history that she has been acquainted with has serious biases towards big ag interests.
Hey, has other people here heard much of the A1/A2 issue? Acres, USA has a recent interview about the issue. I found it interesting. Here is the link:
http://www.acresusa.com/toolbox/reprints/Dec09_Woodford.pdf
http://gazettextra.com/news/2009/dec/16/settlement-reached-walworth-county-raw-milk-case/
Assistant DA Wiedenfeld " the intention is not to punish the farmers" "We’re trying to protect the public" " I don’t think there’s any intention to make an example out of the Zinnikers"
Does the good DA think we do not understand English? Or perhaps he being a lawyer has played THE WORD GAMES for so long that he even believes black is white and good is evil ? The cracks in the WORD GAMES and the MIND GAMES are growing larger every day.
"We must realize that today’s establishment is the new George the 3rd" Supreme Court Justice William O Douglas
http://www.marlerblog.com/2009/12/articles/legal-cases/2008-raw-goat-milk-e-coli-o157h7-outbreak-linked-to-dairy-and-retail/
http://www.marlerblog.com/2009/12/articles/legal-cases/whole-foods-and-town-farm-dairy-raw-milk-e-coli-o157nm-outbreak-for-this-young-mother-any-raw-milk-benefits-were-not-worth-the-risks/
http://www.marlerblog.com/2009/12/articles/legal-cases/hello-my-name-is-_________-and-i-stopped-selling-raw-milk-in-2006/
cp
Why would any physician want to RX a medication when the patient is healthy? Why would the govt "approve" such a move?
http://www.google.com/search?q=recalled+swine+flu&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a
Recalled for low potency? Yeah right,,,
"in the end, consumers made their wishes known, and the regulators overcame their prejudices and did the right thing."
It is a great step in the right direction. A shame that we must fight any type of battle to consume foods of our choice. There is something wrong with that picture.
Not that it matters for the purposes of this discussion, but I would like to know how the good Dr Harris, who is so enamored of government regulation, feels about the actions of congress in recent days…actions that will make it economically unfeasable for her to care for elderly and disabled patients who rely on Medicare…the same Medicare that congress is taking $400 billion dollars from…does she like THAT government regulation?
Bob Hayles
http://www.juicymaters.com
ALWAYS remind elected officials you are in contact with, "We don’t work for you. You work for US."
An MD I know, had a friend whose toddler went limp after receiving the pig flu vacc. It should be removed from the market before it kills or maims any one else!
http://www.cdispatch.com/news/article.asp?aid=3627
http://www.thelocal.de/national/20091104-23009.html
http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/view/129638
http://www.myfoxdc.com/dpp/health/101309_woman_disabled_by_flu_shot_reaction_dystonia
A major difference is the fact that lunch meat producers are not advertising their product as a cure-all for everything from autism to erectile dysfunction. They don’t give out "prescriptions" for processed turkey or hotdogs at the deli counter, or post videos of testimonials that describe the medical wonders of wonder bread and bologna.
I also wanted to make a comment about Mark’s statement under the previous post.
"If a product has 1,000 testimonials, they should be archived and allowed to be viewed by the consumers. Let the consumers decide what is best for them based on the evidence that they see."
That would be fine to post if you told all 3 sides of the story: positive, neutral, and negative. Where are the "testimonials" from the people who experienced no "cure" for their disease? For example, how about this mother in Montana. She kept drinking raw milk, but made an honest statement that "it didn’t work." Consumers need to be told these stories too.
"DeVries bought her first illicit supply eight years ago when her infant son was suffering from eczema, and his parents were told raw milk, which naturally holds microbes some consider healthful, could hold the cure….It didnt work…"
http://bozemandailychronicle.com/articles/2009/12/13/news/000milk.txt
Finally, would CReMA post the videos cp linked to above on their website in a section on risks? Oh yeah, there is no information on risk on that website either. I’ve looked at every one of the video testimonials on the CReMA website. Has anyone here looked at the new videos with stories about why people who later experienced severe illness originally decided to drink raw milk, and how they feel about the product now?
Brandon,
"It is all about the money."
There’s two ways to look at your statement. It would be interesting to see how many stores would take the risk of selling raw milk if consumers weren’t willing to pay $16/gallon for it. I think it is all about the money in the retail world (but acknowledge that not all raw dairy farmers can be lumped in that category). I also wonder how many people would keep paying those prices if they saw the videos from families who had problems with raw milk, or the neutral statements from people who experienced no disease cures. Sure, it makes sense why someone would pay more for artisan cheese because it is a craft that takes time and skill. But, quadruple prices for raw milk? Why does raw milk cost so much?
Your question, "Why does raw milk cost so much?" is disingenuous. You know why pasteurized milk costs so little. You should acknowledge as much.
For those unaware, when you buy processed milk you are:
1. Buying a mere fraction of the original whole product.
2. Buying a factory-modified fluid that was originally produced for a quantity-is-king, quality-is-secondary (or tertiary) commodity-remuneration system.
3. Participating in a so called "market" that is controlled artificially by processors through bureaucrats, so that the retail price bears no resemblance to actual production costs, nor, as is evident in Framingham, in Wisconsin, and just about everywhere else, true supply and demand.
"Why does raw milk cost so much? " Maybe we should be asking "why does processed milk cost so much?" People who choose raw milk want to support the farmer at a living wage.Milk processors don’t care that they are paying the farmer less than it costs him to produce the milk.The processor also does not care that the milk that is delivered to the processed milk consumer has been adulterated.For the raw milk producer and consumer it is about the QUALITY of the milk.For the milk processor it is only about the money.Believe me it is a lot more profitable to "manufacture" milk from water,powdered milk ,artificial vitamins and pasteurized milk than it is to produce high quality milk and get it to the consumer while it is still fresh.When the fat is removed from the processed milk,you have lost most of it’s value.The fat contains the energy and vitamins and the fat is necessary for the body to absorb the minerals in the milk.
To make good cheese you have to start with the best quality milk.That is a big part of the high cost of artisanal cheese.
I didn’t think so.
Bob Hayles
To imply that the farmers are over charging consumers at $16 or even $20 a gallon for raw milk is bogus indeed! Follow the money yes but first one must know what money is. What is the definition of a dollar?
In REAL MONEY THE PRICE OF RAW MILK HAS BARELY CHANGED IN 100 YEARS!!!
>Why does raw milk cost so much?
Well, the "market" for raw milk varies drastically from one state to another, and even within states depending on their laws and regulations. State like California allow retail sales but only have two major producers, so those producers can presumably set the price at a level that maximizes sales without causing product shortages. Organic Pastures and Claraville Farms have a limited supply of raw milk and probably a fairly inelastic supply/demand curve to an extent but elastic after a certain price point, so they want to set a price high enough to maximize returns but yet low enough to generate enough sales without causing consistent shortages at the retail level. However, the California producers have very little competition so I wouldn’t consider the retail prices there to be a "natural" level and would imagine that the prices might be lower if more farms were competing for retail space.
Other states ban raw milk distribution in any form, so you have "black market" prices in effect which build in the risk to the producer of being caught, fined and/or prosecuted. A farmer isn’t going to sell a gallon of raw milk for $5 if there is a chance that he could lose his farm and livelihood, so the price will be dramatically higher in those states. The price in states that allow on-farm sales would probably be set by classic supply/demand conditions, such as how much milk can the farm produce, how close is the farm to population centers/potential customers, how many competing farms are in the same area, etc. Other states allow herdshares, which makes computing an equivalent retail price difficult because a number of externalities must be considered. Herd shareholders pay a fixed monthly boarding fee for a (potential) maximum fixed amount of milk (depending on seasonal availability), and may need to consider fuel costs involved in reaching the farm. During the summer months when milk is plentiful the net retail price may be lower because the shareholder can receive his or her full complement, but in the winter months when supply is tighter the net retail price will be higher because not as much is available. Herdshare managers may feel pressure from competing farms to offer lowering boarding fees, or may be free to set higher boarding fees if they exclusively supply a certain area.
Another factor to consider is that what we are calling "raw milk" is dramatically different then "raw milk intended for pasteurization" – the cows are raised on pasture, not injected with growth hormones, not kept in enormous confinement dairies and usually comes from small family farms. So, the retail price includes a "quality" premium that is not present in commercial pasteurized milk and must be considered. Remember the old saying "the cream rises to the top?" The cream contains all the fat-soluble vitamins and milk from grass-fed cows is much higher in cream and the associated vitamins and nutrients. Commercial processors skim off the cream and sell it in the value-added forms of butter and ice cream, generating additional profits over and above fluid milk sales. So, the retail price of raw milk includes the lost opportunity costs of selling the cream separately.
Also, the commercial dairy industry is heavily regulated, contains regional monopolies and large subsidies. Right now there is a huge disparity between the retail price and the price per hundredweight being paid to dairy farmers, such that the cost of production is greater than the price paid to the farmers and hundreds are going bankrupt. So, the retail price is being kept artificially low to the detriment of most smaller family farms and to the benefit of the largest commercial confinement dairies.
In conclusion and to answer your question, the retail price of raw milk from grass-fed cows varies greatly across the country and can’t be directly compared with the retail price of commercial pasteurized milk due to the quality factors present in raw milk and the price distortions present in commercial milk.
GeezLouise, Lykke! You asked that SAME question nearly two months ago, and several people, including myself, answered you: http://www.thecompletepatient.com/journal/2009/10/25/which-side-in-the-raw-milk-debate-most-values-human-life-if.html?currentPage=2#comments
So, either you’ve never read our responses or you’re simply agitating to build outrage over pricing, since your other tactics aren’t working.
ONCE AGAIN, not everyone charges $16 a gallon… once again, I venture to say probably only Whole Foods (aka "Whole Paycheck") charges that much. I myself charge less than half that, in fact most everyone I know does. I don’t know ANY raw dairyers, personally, who charge over $8 a gallon.
Remember your Marketing 101: If a price is perceived as too high for a product, no one will buy it; and if the price was a fair one to begin with, the seller will be forced to cut corners and lower the quality and thus the price… or go out of business. As I tell my customers, if you think my prices are too high, you are more than welcome to get your own animals and see for yourself the true value of my prices. In fact, I’ve had some customers do that, and a year later, they’re back to buying my milk. There’s nothing quite like being tied down by twice a day milking that makes one willing to pay the extra cost to NOT have to do it!
Or perhaps it’s because the buyers know that corners are very rarely cut in the raw milk market, perhaps because there are very few corners to cut, and buyers are willing to pay extra to ensure any corners AREN’T cut… unlike the thousands of corners that are cut daily in commercial pasteurized milk.
Do you really know what’s done to commercial milk destined to be pasteurized? The first thing they do is strip all the fat from the milk, then add it back in to achieve the bastardized skim, 1%, 2% and 4% formulations… and that’s only the start of what they do. I read about it some 15 years ago, long before I even got a farm and goats, and was so disgusted I started searching out raw milk from local farmers. And once I tasted REAL milk, I never bought pasteurized again. In fact, that is what inspired me to get my own animals.
Try some REAL milk, Lykke… you might convert, as well. There’s a very good reason why we’re all real milk fanatics.
Jenny
Since I don’t purchase lunch meats, I have no idea what they advertise. Do the lunch meat companies put in large words the potential for contamination? The potentionial for a miscarriage? Do they? I’ve not seen any signs walking by the deli case.
"medical wonders of"….. Indeed, lets spoon feed our kids junk, How about those that claim cholesterol lowering, etc, how about the drungs that are pushed onto the public? Those ads are misleading, leave important side effects out. If you think mass advertising isn’t full of BS then you really do have your head in the sand. Your above statements are very weak. Is that the best you have?
http://www.rwjf.org/childhoodobesity/product.jsp?id=50448
http://www.flickr.com/photos/christianmontone/4158628590/
Wow, someone is giving prescriptions? Must have a license to do that. Otherwise they’d be in jail for practicing without a license. If something helped someone why shouldn’t they tell others? There is nothing wrong with that. Unless you are one of those who believe all who believe different than you are wrong?
The MAJOR difference is the FACT that lunch meats are so much more lethal than raw milk, yet the govt doesn’t single them out. Why is that?
"also wonder how many people would keep paying those prices if they saw the videos from families who had problems with raw milk, or the neutral statements from people who experienced no disease cures."
I wonder how many would keep paying for processed foods if they saw first hand and videos on how they are processed,feed lots farms, etc truly are? If people knew how milk was processed then, it would probably be consumed less than now. Most think the cow is milked and ran threw tubes to a pasteurizer and then bottled….. That is a very false belief, why doesn’t the govt or dairy industry educate the people?
I wonder how many would continue to buy lunch meats or any other food if they experienced contamination and they or someone they knew didn’t recover? There are many people who have tried many drugs that didn’t work for them, some even maimed people or killed them…. You single out raw milk for what purpose? Your arguments are so weak they are becoming pathetic.
Most raw milk producers aren’t advertising their product as a cure all..let alone have the arrogance to write ‘prescriptions’…again you see one high profile raw milk farmer (who really isn’t representative of most others), and make an extrapolation to all the rest….which just confirms how little you really know about the true raw milk market in this country.
In regards to the testimonials….whose responsibility is it to be fair and even handed….advocacy groups across the spectrum don’t give a balanced view of the thing they are promoting…and raw milk faces a uphill battle, given the blatant lies that governmental agencies (which you constantly trumpet) get away with. You don’t like raw milk…form an advocacy group and give the other side…it’s not up to the raw milk folks to do it. You don’t see the vaccine makers, or the legislatures that give them tort relief, warning everyone of the real dangers of vaccines (but you do get bombarded multiple times a day telling you how bad the pandemic is and how you should get your shots). Totally lame line of reasoning. You embarrass yourself with this one.
Again you try to justify your position by trying to cast most raw milk farmers as greedy, self centered, step on somebody else to make some money, kind of people. Again your ignorance screams louder than a castrated pig. It’s obvious that your exposure to raw milk farmers is limited, and you ignore all the good, salt of the earth folks who are quietly producing what their neighbors want, and have no desire for the ego stroke and power that money can buy. I’m not sure where you live but I bet if you spent a few days with some real raw milk producers, humble families that are in it for the right reason you would change your mind. I’d wager there is a family like that within a half hours drive (we’re all over the place)
You seem (as do others) infatuated with a single, high profile raw milk producer…one who does not in the least represent the majority of those who turn grass into goodness. You are beguiled by the exception, and seek to create a judgment based on the anomaly. Even your ‘scientific mind’ can see the mistake in this.
You’d better tighten up here quick, girl…..for if you want to really be taken seriously, your gonna have to come up with something more substantial than that.
The threatened "POGRAM" of ecomonic genocide against small farm raw milk producers has been liifted [for now].
Based on comments and discussion with citizens HMMM guess they felt the heat.
South Dakota Secretary of Agriculture announced today to withdraw the proposed new rules regarding raw milk AT THIS TIME.
http://www.state.sd.us/doa/das/RMR%20Ltr%20Dec%202009.pdf
How about a one hour radio interview on Public Freespeech Radio with Gena Kirby, Mark McAfee and Dr. Donald Fields ( Chief of Medicine at VCH and Associate professor of medicine at UCSF ….this guy teaches doctors at SF University medical school ). This hour on the air speaks very specifically about the medical value of raw milk and how it works. Doctor Fields tells how he uses raw milk wih great effect and no side effects with a large number of his pediatric patients. He is just one of many docs in CA that have found raw milk to be an essential and effective tool in their practice.
http://progressiveparenting.podbean.com/2009/08/27/the-poop-show/
I must be losing my mind after reading the FDA tree killing anti- raw milk, anti- american, anti-farmer, anti-health document yesterday. Last night I had a dream that John Sheehan and I were invited to the whitehouse by the president and Michel for raw milk and organic whole grain cookies, that the USDA took over control of raw milk and Vilsack directed "farmers to connect to their local consumers and get to know them" ( that is actually true and not a dream ) and took over control of all food and raw milk from the FDA and my bank lowered the interest on our loans to 3%. I awoke to reality…wishing it was all true. Bummer.
Enjoy Dr. Fields radio interview….he is quite a brilliant healer and physician. It is my hope that the good doctor at the FDA can pick up a few pointers about how whole foods can heal. This may be shocking but before drugs were forced onto the people of America 75 years ago…people drank raw milk for at least 30,000 years and it provided a huge competitive immune advantage to those populations that could access plenty of it. We are talking about clean grass fed raw milk not the distillers swill milk that killed so many in the 1850-1890’s starting the pastuerizer solution and coverup for filthy raw milk.
Interestingly, the Swiss government had a continuing concern that when the supply of raw milk was low….that there would be illness. Raw milk ( cheese and other raw dairy products ) was the food that saved lives and fed people during the winter when there was no food. If all the stores in America closed and there was no food for 2 weeks…you would pray for raw milk and all the other great foods that come from the god given cow and her grass that she can only eat. She would mow your lawn and you would eat.
She and her four stomachs are a blessed solar food converter for us one stomached humans.
Wake up FDA…… It is time to sit and have a serious discussion about Food v. Drugs and review the findings of your very own NIH Human Genome and Human Biome project. Take a look at the studies in the Human Biome project that refer to " Insitu" study of bacteria in our bodies and the realtionship between bacteria and the human genome.
With-out human symbiotic bacteria we die….the human genome is oncomplete without the contribution of bacteria genetics…that means for health we need a continuous dietary exposure to biodiversity. That means unprocessed whole foods and raw milk fresh or fermented. Take a good look at the incidence of autism and asthma and diabetes and IBS….do not deny or hide from these Mt. Everest numbers. They happened on your watch…your policies. Yes….your body count.
It is our tax dollars that give us all the science that we need to understand how raw milk works. You are in deep denial and you are the only ones that do not see it. How can you…your very jobs and paychecks are dependent on ignoring science and the truth. I will never forget Sheehan at the NCIMS…I will never forget the FDA in their military uniforms running the place like the Gustapo. Not one pastuerization processor out of line and the FDA had the last word on everything. I will never forget the FDA agreeing to add Carbon Dioxide into raw milk so it could be shipped to Hawaii….to extend shelf life. I will never forget the industry idea that this additional gas treatment would not be reqired to be placed on the label or told to the consumers. I will never forget you cancelling my presentation at the NCIMS Science committee at the last minute when I was told to come three days early at extreme cost and expense to present to that committee. How cruel you are.
I have sent a letter through a connected friend of mine who works high in the staff of one of my CA US Senators telling her to amend AB 510 to protect CA raw milk and raw milk elsewhere. The feedback was awesome and very welcomed.
This is becoming Big Ag and the FDA against the people and local connected trusted farmers.
So far the score tally is pretty good. Raw dairy farmers get hugs from moms and $12 per gallon and the kids get rid of their asthma and IBS and constipation. A win in South Dakota and in MA.
The FDA backed Big Ag guys are getting less and less for their dead milk and causing more and more diarhea and gas pains to their unknown consumers. And …..they never get a hug and some have committed suicide and they are losing their farms ( tragically ).
FDA it is time to talk….send an emissary with a white flag.
Merry Christmas to all….even the FDA and Big Ag.
Mark McAfee
http://www.marlerblog.com/2009/05/articles/legal-cases/the-alexandre-eco-farms-dairy-raw-milk-campylobacter-outbreak/
http://www.marlerblog.com/2009/12/articles/client-videos/e-coli-o157h7-outbreak-linked-to-raw-milk-in-california-in-2006/
Mark, it is always wise to know when to stop talking.youre going to bury yourself with your own words.
cp
It sounds like the physican board member, Tammy Harris, was a bit confused, not only for the issue raised above, but also she seems to have not realized that the issue under consideration was not the disallowing of pasturized milk, but rather the allowing of raw milk sales. It’s just allowing free choice for consenting adults.
No one is forcing her to drink unpasturized milk…
but she wants to force everyone else to be able to buy only pasturized milk.
In the recent Crestor press story it was very interesting to note that 13 people have died unexpectedly in the Crestor studies and…Crestor has been associated with a big increase in diabetes. Yet the FDA has voted to allow Crestor to be marketed to people with normal cholesterol. Normal cholesterol.????… this is nonesense and corporate pandering.
Death by FDA drug is ok….diarrhea from raw milk is close to capital murder!!!???!!!
You are sick, corrupt, murdering, criminal, unethical and immoral and worse.
How can you sleep at night.
Please put these exact words in your next 400 page tree killing thesis to the Judge. Perhaps he will see the light and throw you all in jail to save Americans lives.,
Mark McAfee
Yes, I am paying attention, and do not know all the answers Like cp, I want the risks addressed, but can see your point of view too about the different types of farm approaches.
You’re a hardy soul for sticking around here as long as you have. I wish folks would be a bit gentler with you.
I know you’ve posted bits on this before; But I’m curious as to how would you like to have the risks addressed?
It has been said that we live in a "risk society", in that we act on grand scales without sufficient study of the consequences of our decisons. The decisions to use DDT, Viox, lead gasoline were all based on shortsightedness and the folly of introducing novel compounds into our environment. Raw milk, however, has been around since the domestication of animals. A very long time, no? It seems that the risk involved with milk lies in the unknown and largely unstudied effects of pasturization.
Therefore, I would propose that, more urgently than raw milk’s risks, we need studies on unpasturized milk’s risks.
(Sorry Lila, to be a wet blanket – but get ready – they’ll be back, and they’ll see a need to have their regulatory thumb in every jar. You should draft legislation that supports raw dairies, instead of waiting for Dept of Ag’s permission to survive.)
Excellent comments tonight – perceptive, smart – good links – thank you all!
Another bit on the cost of raw milk – it is higher because of Economy of Scale. You would not want to create a large raw dairy just to achieve lower prices, because although the price would be better, quality would suffer with higher volume. You get more mastitis, need more antibiotics, more backup cows, more fertility/birthing problems, more vet bills, more employee education issues, more consumer emails and more stress. If you had a lot of good land and a lot of good employees, you could produce quality milk, but then your price needs to go back up to support consistent quality.
Quality raw milk will always cost more – you get what you pay for. But we pay a lot lower medical bills – no OTC drugs, less Kleenex and other sucker items, no sick days or visits to the clinic… Plus, your buying habits help local economies, build regional food supplies, provide consumers freedom of choice, and restore our earth.
We pay $7.50/gallon. I think organic UHT milk costs $6/gallon, so I’m actually saving money, given all the hidden costs of cooked milk. (I can’t drink past/homog milk because it gives me terrible stomach cramps anyway so for me, it’s either raw milk or no milk.)
And as somebody mentioned, raw milk sure tastes good!
-Blair
I’m almost convinced that your last response was genuine….almost.
There are risks involved with everything we do. The notion that the government is alleviating these risks across the board is wrong…they pick and select which ‘dangers’ to address, and which ones to ignore, based on the amount of capital, and lobbying it gets from the corporations that run our country. Cigarettes, alcohol, twinkies….these sound more dangerous to me than raw milk…and are all endorsed by government.
You blow up the worst case scenario, and totally ignore the multitude of best case scenarios. You harp on the rare exception, and disregard the majority of good that raw milk can, and is, doing in this country. It’s like going to the forest, a wonderful green majestic one, with large and vibrant trees, and searching for a dead snag to wail, weep and cry over…. seems to me it could be a personality defect….
That one dead milk drinker should screw it up for the thousands of those who benefit from raw milk is unjust. People die and get sick from vaccines, yet the benefit outweighs the detriment….and they are continued to be promoted (even to extent that those stricken by the vaccines have no legal recourse)…. yet in the raw milk debate….the proof…the tens of thousand of testimonials from people where raw milk is making a difference is totally disregarded, marginalized and rejected off hand because of some sick kid…..and the ambulance chasers have an open season.
People should have a choice when it comes to their food. And government has no place in restricting that choice.
So how is your review of the Constitution coming along….? It’s GOT to be in there somewhere
Max "lose"? Hardly. Max held his own against the ‘best’ the State has to offer. DATCP "Food Safety" and Rod Nuelstein have some unpleasant days and explaining to do ahead of them, and we are grateful in how obvious they are in their brutality towards farmers. Their "hit list" includes some of the flagship — Wisconsin’s Finest – farms – sorry, not a one of them a CAFO.
What I saw, what I took from it is a groundswell of support for raw milk and Wisconsin’s proud dairy farmers, disgust with a Government run amok and one helluva brave guy – Max Kane.
The courtroom was only one small part of the day — I just don’t think Cheryl Daniels, Phil Ferris, Jackie Owens, Rod Nuelstein, had a good day. They are figuring out that the jig is up – and there an endless supply of resistance to their evil in days ahead. The rest of us shared food, laughter, knowledge, yes – hugs – some tears even — our friiend Michael Badnarik had a massive heart attack in my car seconds after leaving the courtroom. The mettle of our people: Mark McAffee, a 17 year veteran EMT, races out to help. That is the kind of people I met, got to know, forged bonds with, yesterday.
It WAS a GREAT DAY for Raw Milk, for Farmers, and for the 1000 Ticked Off Moms Brigade, due to hit the beaches of the Wisconsin Capital to get our freedom – our Legal Raw Milk Law!
Geez, no megaphone in my hand and I still sound like I’m on a stump. It’ll wear off in a day or so. But for now — I Am STOKED about Legal Raw Milk in Wisconsin!
Scott Trautman – Proud Wisconsin Dairyman