The deaths are coming at a quickening pace, and with them contradictory feelings. You want to honor the victims and their many accomplishments, grieve the losses. You also want to shake people, scream at them: Why did you continue to reject all efforts to caution the Weston A. Price Foundation community about so-called fermented cod liver oil? Why did you ridicule those who simply asked for more testing?
Even as I update a post I did in 2017 about FCLO being a potential “ticking time bomb” because of illnesses and deaths associated with the supplement–including those of naturopath Ron Schmid and dental author Ramiel Nagel–I should point out that there is no definitive proof that any of the deaths are from FCLO. As time goes on, though, the number of premature deaths of individuals associated with WAPF and FCLO has become noteworthy. A number of the victims and their families have been reluctant to discuss FCLO usage; this is understandable, since not many individuals want to think that a supplement they were supposedly taking to improve their health was actually undermining their health, and even killing them.
FCLO is the stuff that nutritionist Kaayla Daniel, a former board member of WAPF, concluded back in 2015 was rancid, and therefore dangerous for long-term consumption. Once she released her study about the dangers of FCLO that year, she was summarily kicked off the WAPF board.
Here is a list of nine individuals (in addition to Schmid and Nagel) associated with WAPF who have died what can only be categorized as premature deaths in the last few years; the information mostly comes from their friends and acquaintances, along with Internet postings. It isn’t meant to be a comprehensive list, since there are others who have died or are dying who aren’t included here:
— Kim Schuette, a WAPF board member and nutritionist associated with promotion of FCLO, died earlier this week, Christmas day, at age 59. She is one of three WAPF-associated individuals who have died of glioblastoma brain cancer. Her family had launched a GoFundMe campaign in recent weeks to raise $50,000 for expenses associated with Kim’s care. As of the time of her death, some $44,000 had been raised. According to the site: “Late this last May, Kim was surprisingly diagnosed with grade-four glioblastoma brain cancer. Neurologists found two masses, one on each side of her brain. Kim underwent two successful surgeries in the span of three weeks, and has spent the last five months in recovery. With a medical team comprised of some of the country’s leading glioblastoma experts at UCSD and her trusted colleagues in holistic health, Kim has persevered…..Early in November, Kim’s MRI revealed recurring tumors in her brain. This recurrence has brought new challenges, and is requiring new treatments as well as in-home health care.”
She encouraged use of FCLO for conditions like autism, and was understood from friends to have taken it.
—Cherie Calvert, who was a founding member of the WAPF board, died in late November of breast cancer; she was 63. Calvert wasn’t known to have recommended or taken the FCLO, but had remained with the board as it fought off demands that it step back from its enthusiastic endorsement of the Green Pasture product.
Maureen Diaz, a long-time WAPF member, wrote this on Cherie’s Facebook page Nov. 27: “My dear friend Cherie, lost her fight with cancer last evening. And I do mean fight, as she didn’t just do all the usual things, she truly fought with this disease furiously, but could not conquer it. Sometimes these things are bigger than can be managed no matter what we do, and so at least now the suffering is over for her. Those who knew Cherie, loved her, and all of us will miss her greatly. There is already a big hole in my own heart, and I know it can not be filled with anyone else.”
—Jessica Earle was a long-time WAPF enthusiast and mother, who died last month at age 44, also of glioblastoma stage IV. She was unusual in that she lived for six years with the brain cancer, apparently benefiting from treatment by a prominent alternative practitioner. She had a blog chronicling her illness and sought funds to help defray costs of her treatment.
—Eoin Miller, a WAPF chapter leader in Ireland, died in late 2017 from liver cancer. He was a GAPS practitioner and exercise scientist, and was only 34. He left behind a wife and young child. He promoted FCLO and is understood to have taken it.
—Jim Canty, the husband of Kristin Canty, died in April 2017 from glioblastoma. He was 54, and worked as a private investor in the Boston area. Kristin, of course, is the producer of the documentary about regulator crackdowns on raw milk producers and food clubs, “Farmageddon”, and now operates two restaurants in Concord, MA, that prepare food in the WAPF tradition. Jim is understood to have taken FCLO.
—Katherine Czapp, who had been editor for the WAPF journal Wise Traditions, died in late 2016 at age 60. She died of a type of colorectal cancer, as did her husband about a year before she did. Both were understood to have been users of FCLO
—Carol Esche, a nurse and a former board member of WAPF, died in late 2016 of metastatic breast cancer. It’s not known if she took FCLO. She was 59.
—Lauren Feder Haarpaintner, the author of a book on natural pregnancy, died in late 2015 of bone cancer at age 55. She was understood to have promoted FCLO on her web site.
—Chris Decker was a gifted naturopath, who was diagnosed in 2014 with a strange abdominal cancer that was so fast and vicious that oncologists couldn’t figure out what was going on. In early 2015, she pleaded for donations on her Facebook page: “As far as the MDs are concerned, the prognosis is pretty dismal. There is however, an enormous amount that natural medicine can do, and I’m seeing two wonderful cancer specialists. Already I’m feeling the benefits of their wise ministrations. The bugbear is that this is very expensive. It’s not so much the practitioners’ fees (thanks to their kindness) but the cost of all the medicines, some other treatments, various medical equipment, and, on top of that, all the regular bills that have to be paid. Some close friends have already helped out despite not being exactly flush themselves. But we’ve quickly realized I need a much larger, broader effort–probably involving a lot of kind souls I’ve never even had the pleasure of meeting. I figure I need to raise about $100,000 to cover treatment costs and other bills over the coming months. And time is definitely of the essence. So I guess I’m asking for the kindness of friends and strangers alike. Anything you can spare would be wonderful–literally a lifesaver.” As a WAPF loyalist, she’d been taking FCLO for years and was given extra doses during her final months by a close friend. She died later in 2015 at the age of 61.
Kaayla Daniel had this to say about the recent deaths: “I am deeply saddened by the death of my friend Kim Schuette. I am even more saddened by the fact that Kim is the most recent in a long list of cancer victims known to be long-time consumers of Green Pasture Fermented Cod Liver Oil (FCLO). I did my best to warn Kim, Ramiel Nagel and others at the Weston A. Price Foundation that FCLO was provably rancid and probably carcinogenic. Regrettably, she and others there put their loyalty to Sally Fallon’s opinions ahead of scientific data and common sense. Correlation does not equal causation, but the link here is strong and sobering. I hope their deaths will serve as a wakeup call.”
It’s hard to know. The wife of Ron Schmidt has blamed his death on his consumption of FCLO over several years; Schmid himself blamed heart problems he had leading up to his death on FCLO.
The wife of dental expert and author Ramiel Nagel, however, has discounted any connection between FCLO and his death from cancer. In emails to me a few months ago, Michelle objected to my suggestion that his brain stem cancer was the result of consuming FCLO: “Our family has been taking FCLO for over 15 years now. Ramiel never did take very much, because he had a sensitive digestion. He maybe took 1/4 teaspoon per day, some days not at all. Blaming the cod liver oil for his death is a rumor.” She then took me to task for suggesting FCLO may be associated with the health problems that have emerged: “You have created a petri dish blog for unnecessary rumors, and negativity. I think you should question your own motives before creating this kind of atmosphere.”
I guess my response is that readers should make up their own minds. I do know this much: There seem to be more premature deaths than one might expect from a population committed to healthy eating. Unfortunately, it’s difficult to break away from a cult, even when the advice of its leader is found to be highly questionable. Cult leaders never admit error or weakness. Eventually, though, their cults invariably crash and burn by self destructing.
Thank you for writing about Kim. This is a very difficult time for Kim’s family and her children. Blaine and I will be attending the services.
I know that Kim lived her life as best she could and did so much for everyone. I always enjoyed her smile and joy as she was filled with concern for others and placed nutrition very high on her list of actions. Not just words. She lived her life in service to health.
Even after the FCLO blow up years ago at Anaheim when I met with the WAP board and launched a formal protest and concern, Kim and I continued to work together and constructively advocated in other areas. We together put FCLO to the side and placed all the very good things at WAP at the center. That was Kim. Good to the core and filled with love always.
FCLO is not like Raw Milk. If raw milk makes you sick you will know in a couple of days and there is no hiding.
FCLO is in a class by itself. There is only one producer in the world. Green Pastures. That’s it. There are few acute illnesses that come as a direct result of consumption in the days after consumption. The effects written about here are longer term with insidious onset. No one can state definitively what the bad outcomes come from?
I believe in Do No Harm. This is the precept for all foods and medical practice using medicine or foods that are used as medicine. Supplements for sure fit this category.
The WAP crowd should be at the very lowest possible rate of risk for illness and that includes rare cancers.
This begs the question.
At this time…. we should all send our warmest thoughts of love and care to Kim’s family. It is not a time for judgement.
The time for critical thought will come again soon. Until then….just send kind love and care. The loss of a loved one leaves a deep wound. Losing Kim leaves an especially deep wound and empty space in our lives regardless of the cause or origin.
If FCLO is not the risk factor…. then why is it that WAP has a cluster of tragic and bad outcomes in a group of people that eat the best foods on earth. A conscious observer must ask that question. Ron Schmidt shared with me that FCLO definitely caused his heart problem, because the heart problems resolved when he stopped taking it.
How are the dots connected? Let’s stop having more dots.
Kim, I am so very sorry I did not do more and say more to you prior to Christmas. Every time I tried to find words, I judged myself and could not speak. I am so sorry. I will say these words to your family in the coming days.
Only the good die young. ?❤️
Here is information about Kim Schuette’s funeral: Her funeral mass will take place Monday, December 31 at 10:00am at her parish, St. Therese of Carmel Catholic Church, at 4355 Del Mar Trails Road in San Diego.
Thank you for sharing. Such a profound loss.
I was alerted to read your blog after the death of Kim. I’m always leary if anyone that says their way is the only way. I’ve only been drinking FCLO since November and ditched it in the trash after reading your blog and that of others. I started questioning myself drinking it after reading Dr. Price’s book a few weeks ago. The amounts of A and D didn’t seem right to me. Thanks for putting it out there for people to read and decide.
I’m taking FCLO from a UK company called Armorica. Was wondering whether to up the dose but seriously rethinking it now.
“FCLO definitely caused his heart problem…”. I can see how it would – Fermented foods are high in histamine which can cause mast cell reactions such as irregular heart beat, rapid heart rate, etc.
Further, if mast cell reactions continue in those with mast cell issues (ie. Mast Cell Activation Disorder), cancer is indeed a known result.
Appreciate your sharing your insights on histamine and mast cell activation disorder. However, Green Pasture Fermented Cod Liver Oil is NOT a fermented food. As I wrote in “Hook, Line & Stinker,” fish livers cannot be fermented.. Cod livers and pollock livers are only one to three percent carbohydrate, which is insufficient to maintain a ferment. Furthermore, fermented products require an acid pH of 4.6 or lower. FCLO’s pH, as tested at two laboratories, came in high at 5.17 and 5.8. Green Pasture owner David Wetzel himself has said (on video and in conversation) that the pH of FCLO is even higher, at 6.1 or 6.2. Whether or not the oil was actually obtained through “fermenting” of the livers, the evidence is clear that it’s not being preserved by an acid pH. And if it’s not being preserved, it’s going rancid.
Kaayla, carbohydrate content has little to do with the fermentation process. Plenty of foods can be fermented that are not starches. Meat, fish, fish eggs, organ meats, etc are all able to be fermented to preserve them.
Fermentation is defined as the chemical breakdown of a substance by bacteria, yeasts, or other microorganisms, typically involving effervescence and the giving off of heat.
It is everything to do with the preservation of food and therefore, Fermented cod liver oil is in fact fermented and it is not rancid. The act of fermenting it preserves it.
This is fish liver OIL though, not fish livers. Even if fermented fish liver was safe, the oil is most certainly rancid because of how highly unsaturated it is. Vitamin A is also a pufa and is degraded by heat and time. There is no doubt in my mind that the oil is oxidized and is basically like taking massive amounts of free radicals.
I fully researched the fermentation process and wrote a chapter on it in “Hook, Line & Stinker” This report is available for free at my website. Furthermore, lab testing showed FCLO to be provably NOT fermented and provably extremely rancid. .
Oils cannot be fermented. Meat, fish, fish eggs, organ meats, etc., are protein foods—not oil. Cod liver oil is just that: an oil. Oils can rancidify, but not ferment, as far as I know.
Thank You Kaayla T. Daniel
It’s absurd to imagine FCLO caused his heart problems, given that the first several decades he was taking obscene amounts of CLO, GP FCLO didn’t even exist.
I gave it to my baby/toddler for two years along with my husband and I. Is there anything I can do now to reverse the negative harm it may have done? She has serious detoxification issues now and behavioral issues. I wonder if it was high in mercury and damaged her brain or kidneys or something.
Good question Sarah
I was completely committed to fermenting foods and even became certified to teach how to ferment. I also followed the GAPS plan after surgery and chemo for 3rd stage colorectal cancer. I still think it is a good thing for many people, but not for me. I have lived with chronic inflammation for many years even while eating healthy. Then I read an article connecting histamines and chronic inflammation. After removing all high histamine foods, including all of my lovely fermented foods my chronic inflammation resolved itself. My dentist was absolutely amazed. Do you think this has been mast cell reaction?
I made myself become histamine intolerance in 2010 with fermented milk using kefir, plus several other things. I finally resolved it this past year after years of trying. I believe it was gut Microbiome damage and Villi damage with histamine being created by the gut bacteria and not enough DAO enzyme, 4 months of Megasporebiotic seems to be the thing that worked.
From Sally Fallon, the President of Weston A. price organization herself via email.
“Let’s see, 7 deaths out of an organization of 13,000 people over 6 years. That seems a very low rate of deaths to me. About 1 per year–pre-covid days it was 8 per 1000 per year in the U.S.. So seems to me our folks are doing very well! We help people have good health but we don’t promise immortality!”
fermenting the whole fish is whats best
and its still done in the nedarlands
no one in our history and other histories fermented just livers
it was the whole fish and still is
and the principle is the same as arjounous’s “high meat” recipe which can be done with fish and also raw eggs
sorry “aajounas vonderplanitz”
N.J. residents warned not to drink milk from quarantined farm
Maybe it is not the purely a FCLO effect. Vitamin D supplementation seems to be a risk factor for glioblastoma and calcitriol was shown to enhance cell proliferation of some cell lines
It is very risky to try to improve on nature, and there are several studies indicating that vitamin supplements may be harmful to our Health. Go out into the sun a Little every day, and eat healthy and you do not need to supplement.
Lab testing of FCLO showed modest levels of Vitamin A and extremely low levels of Vitamin D, not the extremely high and potentially toxic levels claimed by Sally Fallon at the Weston A. Price Foundation. Most people taking FCLO were using it, as per Fallon Morell’s recommendations — in lieu of Vitamin D supplementation. Many of those people had their Vitamin D levels tested and reported extremely low levels (typically under 20 and often as low as 10 or less). I reported these findings in my report “Hook, Line & Stinker: The Truth about Fermented Cod Liver Oil.”
Otherwise, I would certainly agree with you that there are risks for those who’ve jumped on the Vitamin D supplementation fad.
I agree with your counsel to “go out into the sun” Cat, but I’d qualify it with “A WHOLE LOT everyday”. We come into this world naked, and our genes expect that we’ll bathe in the sun nearly continuously for our entire lifetimes.
In order to recover from a post-concussion traumatic brain injury, made worse as I unwittingly sat under a high-speed router over my desk in the months that followed, my neurologist advised me to sunbathe naked, all day, everyday until I could recover an optimal vitamin D level. After three months of this protocol (enacted late summer/early fall at the 32nd latitude) my level tested at 64ng/mL with ZERO supplementation. Nature never makes a mistake.
I did the same…I tested my levels a few years ago living in Miami of all places…21! i decided to go out into the sun everyday for 20-30 min with no shirt and brought my levels up to 79 in a couple months…now a day doesn’t go by that i dont start my day going out into the sun and of course never burining
I agree with you 100% on this…I stopped taking supplements a few years ago not because they did me any harm but because i thought about centenarians , did they supplement the way we do? no they didn’t ….did they obsess over every detail of their health..i doubt it…they simply ate real food..what they had available to them and lived a low stress life, and got some exercise daily. The only time i would supplement is if i actually knew for a fact with a test in hand that i was truly deficient in something that food choices alone would not solve.
Cat, I think you may have a good point.
“It is very risky to try to improve on nature…”
I am in the process of healing from decades of junk food, etc. And in the last couple years supplemented with vitamin D drops (small dropper/ vitamin shoppe). As of January 2019 I became pretty sick, and it lingered for over a month, finally I felt it might be time to get blood work done (not done in many years!) so I did, and It revealed that I have vitamin D levels of 132!!!! Which is toxic.
I attribute it to synthetic brands of vit.D. (nothing like real sunlight!) And it is likely that as you said, it may have a contributory effect.
Why do you think these deaths are only in response to FCLO? I so appreciate you David, but I find this article uncharacteristically irresponsible. Meat and dairy consumption (of any level of purity), at high levels can wreak havoc on the body ecology. Not understanding the values of alkaline balancing, and most significantly, today, detox, is key to long term health. The mind/body connection, reversing free radicals, reducing EMF, and other radiation exposure, all of this plays into the wellness paradigm. Every route is plagued with questions of efficacy and safety. Even coconut water kefir was recently questioned as potentially dangerous in today’s diet. While there is no doubt that FCLO from Green Pastures was a bad, and potentially carcinogenic product, there is not way to Target it as the sole reason for these unfortunate deaths. Best to you and your family, Laurie
You’re right Laurie, it is nearly impossible to pinpoint any one element as the culprit in disease. That said, I think you’re making it way too complicated. It’s not “detox” that matters, but rather “redox”; as in– the net-negative charge of the cell. What I’ve learned from the work of neurosurgeon Dr. Jack Kruse, is that when our redox potential is high, our bodies detox without any conscious effort on our part. The problem is, something is now lowering the redox potential of nearly every person on planet Earth.
Meat and dairy are no more the culprit than grains and fruit. All food has its place in the photosynthetic web. More to the point, what season, latitude, haplotype are we talking about? What else would an Eskimo, or resident of Vermont for that matter, eat during the winter months besides meat? What else would Maasai consume besides cultured raw dairy? Those closest to the equator can consume high-carb foods with impunity, because they grow there year-round. Those farther from the equator are obliged to consume high DHA seafood to keep their mitochondrial engines purring.
In my opinion you’re on the right track when you call out the non-native electromagnetic radiation/unopposed blue light exposure that has become ubiquitous. Kim and I were San Diego neighbors. Why is this relevant? Because Qualcomm has unleashed a biologically devastating 60GHz “5G” millimeter wave weapon upon the citizens of our fair city. I personally believe this played a much greater role in her illness than anyone is addressing. Personally, my husband and I are planning our exit strategy as I pen this.
Did FCLO play a part? No telling, but what I can say is that last February I took her to lunch and literally begged her to reconsider her endorsement of the product. She was steadfast in her support of Sally and the foundation’s commitment to uphold their position. Kim is at peace now. Those who’s controversial position she supported? One can only wonder how they sleep these days.
5G roll out is going to be on everyone soon, and many more will died from cancer and many more illnesses.
Scientific evidence? And, I don’t mean a link to a blog post. Otherwise, please don’t spread unfounded Internet memes. Thanks.
The the International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC) classified cellphones as a “possible human carcinogen.” But you can stick your head in the sand if you wish.
How many things in life are a “POSSIBLE” carcinogen?
The “evidence” against 5G (or, pick whatever other fad you like) is hardly definitive.
For over 40 years, I’ve been hearing about one boogeyman after another. Yet, we’re all still here.
Also…”Dr.” Mercola. LOL
Thousands of studies on negative impact of EMF can be found here. http://www.emf-portal.org
Thanks Annie for your thoughtful reply. I agree, and have been thinking a lot about this again, recently, after taking a hiatus. This is why I feel detoxing the body, and lessening the body burden is key in this day and age. I went to Germany a few years ago to have a specific comprehensive blood test done, and found I had “electric blood” meaning, my emf exposure was high. I was having very strange buzzing in my head after a massive cell tower was put up about 14 feet from my home. I had the mercury fillings removed from my mouth, and the buzzing went down dramatically. I had an EMF specialist come to my house, and he explained that it is cumulative (meaning, imagine if you have a bucket of water, the amount of exposure either takes you over the edge and starts slopping out or you can keep it at bay, I suppose, meaning somewhat manageable). We eventually sold our house, and I now live in the country. I do not feel that buzzing anymore, but I do feel a certain modicum of energetic presence (hard to explain) because I LIVE on my phone, and computer. This is especially felt when I fall to sleep with headphones on (a horrible thing to do) because I like to listen to meditations at night. Anyway, it’s my new years resolution to seriously lessen my EMF exposure, but I do feel we need to be hyper vigilant in assisting our bodies in detoxing (correct sauna, both for heavy metal eradication, and mitochondria support, colonics, grounding, etc)…and as wooey as this may be for this forum, meditation to widen our conscious access to the field, and strengthen our astral bodies so we can co-exist with this information that is not going away anytime soon…That said, while I don’t advocate one diet modality over another, plenty of vegans do just fine in Vermont 😉 All the best to you. I am sorry for your loss. I am sorry that we all must endure the constant learning curves in the health and wellness journey. In the end, I do feel we must tune into our own needs, and responses…I have had two episode of too much estrogenic(or mimicked?) effects with collagen intake (I know one or more? Can’t remember now, who reported the same response to daily intake of bone broth), yam extract and biosil. I had an awful reaction to the ever popular Kombucha…I am always in check-and-balance mode to refine and expand…so glad I got the word about FCLO, but should have just listened to my kids who are well more tapped into their bodies than me, and absolutely refused taking it when I insisted…makes me sick to my stomach that I forced it on them…All my best to you, for a happy New Year.
How tragic that so many people have died so young. My condolences go out to their families and friends.
David, this list is certainly alarming. I agree that we can’t draw any conclusions about the fermented cod liver oil yet, but people should absolutely be made aware that there are substantial concerns about its safety. The irony of these numerous premature deaths of relatively young health-conscious people is devastating.
Thank you for the courage to present this information. Kim was a lovely woman and her contributions will be sorely missed. My deepest condolences to her family.
I resigned my board position at WAPF because Sally insisted on the addition of the cod liver oil to the home-made infant formula. She especially favored the FCLO from cod livers, over all others.
I just watched an episode, “Cod is Dead” from the new Netflix series, “Rotten. ” Although this episode mainly dealt with the plight of U.S. and world-wide fishermen, it occurred to me how the heavy promotion of fish oils is contributing to the dwindling fish stocks of the world. This oil, with a very high potential for rancidity, sits in storage and in bottles on shelves around the world. Few successful civilizations ingested stored fish oil regularly despite the stories we hear to the contrary.
Dig deeper into studies proclaiming the health-giving properties of omega-3 fatty acids and you will find that they mainly deal with eating the whole fish.
We know that livers are concerned, among many things, with detoxification.
Fish livers must also deal with those many toxins swirling in the seas. And we are ingesting the oils from those livers?
The problem is more multifaceted than simply the rancid cod liver oil. The oxidized PUFAs throw gasoline on a fire that was already burning.
The research on cod liver oil, fermented or not, has always shown it to be toxic: https://nutritionrestored.com/blog-forum/topic/cod-liver-oil-is-a-poison-and-the-research-has-always-said-so/ . This is due to all cod liver oil’s content of Vitamin A and Vitamin D.
WAPF in general advocates a diet that is extremely concentrated in Vitamin A and Vitamin D from foods. Liver itself is known to cause Vitamin A toxicity, and the Finnish government has been warning its pregnant women and young children to avoid it since 1990: https://nutritionrestored.com/blog-forum/topic/finnish-finland-research-shows-that-yes-vitamin-a-toxicity-acute-and-chronic-is-absolutely-possible-from-eating-liver/
I regularly “fix” ex-WAPFers who got nothing but fatter and sicker on that dietary approach, cod liver oil or no cod liver oil.
Feel free to learn more about the absolute stacks of research on Poison/”Vitamin A” toxicity at my blog-forum https://nutritionrestored.com/blog-forum/forum/chronic-insidious-vitamin-a-toxicity-aka-hypervitaminosis-a-2/ and from Grant Genereux’s free e-books at http://www.ggenereux.blog .
Glyphosate/Roundup prevents the liver from breaking down Vitamin A properly, and this is why the Vitamin A toxicity epidemic is starting to reach epidemic proportions very quickly. Some threshold of glyphosate in the environment has been reached and surpassed that is accelerating everything.
Thanks for saving me the time it would have taken me to say the same thing Dr. G. No one seems to be acknowledging the toxicity of vitamin A yet. I’ve mentioned it other articles about apparent cod liver oil-related illness. That is by far the most likely culprit of the wide variety of health problems that have been reported from FCLO. I’m just not sure the blame should be pinned on the F in FCLO. I think the CLO is perfectly capable of causing this type of destruction without any help from F.
There has been some testing done on FCLO and found it to have almost non existent retinol activity. It could be because the retinol itself has been degenerated. I feel like the oxidized pufa would be the main culprit in any cancer, FCLO is pure oxidized pufa.
@Zach Oh interesting… I wonder if the retinol originally in CLO could be turned into retinoic acid through the “fermentation” process?
Retinoic acid (a.k.a. tretinoin) is extremely toxic. Grant Generoux’s ebook “Poisoning for Profits” explains why consuming retinoic acid results in toxic effects more quickly than consuming retinol.
Please provide a reference for this: “Glyphosate/Roundup prevents the liver from breaking down Vitamin A properly,”
Roundup can disrupt liver cell function resulting in the toxic accumulation of fat in the liver and therefore cause vitamin A deficiency. I haven’t seen any info with respect to it causing vitamin A toxicity…
“Worries about the health risks of glyphosate-based herbicides are not confined to cancer. An important study from Michael Antoniou at King’s College in London shows that following long-term (2-year) exposure to an ultra-low dose of Roundup resulted in non-alcoholic fatty liver disease (NAFLD) in rats.18 NAFLD is a progressive disease resulting in the toxic accumulation of fat in the liver.
‘The glyphosate equivalent amount of Roundup ingested by the rats on a daily basis in this study was 437,500 times lower than what is permitted in the US. This amount of Roundup was at least 100-fold below what the individuals in Mills’s study are estimated to have consumed on a daily basis to give the amount of glyphosate seen in their urine.”
“Disturbed Vitamin A Metabolism in Non-Alcoholic Fatty Liver Disease (NAFLD)”
I will eventually get all the proper references from Stephanie Seneff, she has the handle on that aspect. Retinoic acid is Vitamin A, to be clear:
Garrett, Seneff’s work is completely hypothetical.
Wikipedia is well-known for slamming all that is natural,”alternative”; any kind of functional medicine for that matter. When it comes to health, they are purely allopathic/conventional in their information – to be taken with a grain of salt ….
Thanks, no thanks!
Dr. Garrett, have you explored the role of non-native EMF & blue light as relates to destruction of melanopsin’s loose covalent bond with retinol? According to neurosurgeon Dr. Jack Kruse, Vitamin A becomes toxic when uncoupled from its photoreceptor.
Vitamin A was toxic long before Kruse and the blue light obsession. Just look at the cod liver oil studies from the 1930s I linked.
If anything, Vitamin A is likely causing us to become more EMF sensitive, rather than EMF being the cause of Vitamin A toxicity. It could be both, however.
Case in point:
“Synergic effect of retinoic acid and extremely low frequency magnetic field exposure on human neuroblastoma cell line BE(2)C.”
Brain cancer + retinoic acid (Vitamin A) = Synergistic effect on brain cancer cells
Add rancid PUFAs to the mix, also associated with brain cancer.
There are no coincidences. Kruse is still making the mistake of thinking that Vitamin A is some sort of nutrient, when it is simply not and never has been.
Whoops, meant to say EMF + Retinoic acid = Synergistic effect on brain cancer in that last reply.
Forgot to include the study link: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20564173
An invitro study on cell lines! Well, there ya have it folks!
Hi Dr Garrett Smith,
I think you are wrong on some things WAPF. The fermented cod liver oil controversy, yes they did not handle that well at all. The reasons they are dying will have little to do with Vitamins A & D, or organ meat consumption.
The issues with fermented cod liver oil has more to do with how they’re processed and how it affects their components. The omega 3 fatty acids are more vulnerable and that in itself is not as good thing. The levels of vitamins A & D according to Kaayla Daniels’ report is nowhere near what the Green Pastures bottle says, although there is significantly less vitamin D. Also Vitamins A & D are absolutely lacking in the modern diet in general, especially vitamin D. How well do you think we can absorb carotenes from carrots and such foods? How much of our Sun is producing UV-B rays? Very little I’ll say so I think sunlight is nowhere near close enough to give people enough vitamin D. Vitamin A toxicity only occurs if someone eats a lot of liver in a short time frame which rarely that ever occurs. Otherwise, they are correct for defending Vitamin A. In many ways, they do the same actions as zinc.
I think the WAPF members are dying either because they may take high fat diets to the extreme, which can be problematic or too much fermented foods and of course that rancid cod liver oil they take.
I’m not a WPF fan, but the organization recommends only 4 oz liver weekly and 1/2 tsp (up to 2 tsp in pregnancy, etc.) daily of unrefined CLO.
That seems to be completely in line with the research of Price himself, and known practices of traditional peoples. If people are getting too much A, it’s not from following these recommendations.
Weston Price never recommended fermented CLO.
What do you recommend for someone who has low levels of Vitamin D? Time in the sun has not worked.
I was under the impression that gioblastomas are directly related to cell phone usage. What use to be a rare cancer will continue to increase exponentially.
Agreed Sara. Even more relevant is one’s zip code while using their cell phone.
Absolute fear-mongering nonsense.
“Age specific incidence rates of glioma remained generally constant in 1992-2008 (−0.02% change per year, 95% confidence interval −0.28% to 0.25%), a period coinciding with a substantial increase in mobile phone use from close to 0% to almost 100% of the US population.”
I have read many articles linking glioblastoma with cell phones/EMFs. We are being bombarded by EMFs now, and unless one is aware and tests home, work, and car, he/she wouldn’t know. Also, there are a lot of other things WAPF members do that other people don’t, so I don’t think you can easily/clearly blame FCLO.
I agree with this wholeheartedly. Jessica Earle was my sister in law and the ONE thing she did consistently for about 10 years was talk on her phone many hours a day on the same side of her head that the glioblastoma was found. I think that the RF’s and EMFs are to blame for sure.
Priscilla, it’s only going to get worse in coming years. Look up 5g.
Thanks, David, for your courage and integrity in posting what must have been a very difficult blog to write. Here’s some data that may prove of interest.
According to this publication, incidence rate of glioblastoma is 3.19 per 100,000:
According to the WAPF 2017 tax return, there were approximately 10,000 members($400,000 divided by $40/yr).
At this point we have three confirmed deaths from glioblastoma among WAPF members.
We would expect 0.319 deaths from WAPF members (3.19 divided by 10).
The rate of glioblastoma from WAPF members is ten times what we would expect!
Fascinating Kaayla. Terrifying more like. Let me take this opportunity to once again thank you or alerting us to the FCLO issue.
Appreciate all your hard work but is posting someone’s (anyone’s) tax return legal? I am experiencing serious discomfort that you posted the WAPF tax return even if you’re trying to prove a point.
An association’s tax return is public knowledge… for members and others. See the link she provided.
Pathetic anecdotal boney.
Reminds me of the lists of “murdered naturopaths” or “dead Clinton associates.”
I can add to the list. My chiropractor, who used and prescribed FCLO, died of breast cancer in her early 60’s in 2012, after extensive holistic treatment failed. Like me, she joined WAPF in the early 2000’s and followed a WAPF diet. She used and prescribed Green Pastures CLO and butter oil until FCLO came out, then she used and prescribed that, feeling it was better than plain CLO. My husband and I both took FCLO at her recommendation but stopped when she quit her practice due to her illness. I was so thankful that I had stopped when Kayla’s article about it came out. I have been so disturbed by WAPF’s reaction to Kayla’s findings and their not allowing chapters to discuss the controversy. I am still a member, as I like the articles in the journal, but I have trouble now trusting anything that WAPF says. I doubt I will renew next year.
So you assume a 60 year old who developed cancer got it from a product she took four ~10yrs? That is not sound science…
Who said anything about “sound science’? Call them unsettling coincidences, or worrisome trends, but hopefully those taking the FCLO on a regular basis will think twice or three times before taking the stuff ongoing. Since that post came out, there have been a couple other equally worrisome cases of serious illness.
Thank you for writing this article. I agree that a small population of extremely health-conscious individuals should not have this many tragically young, premature cancer deaths! Rancid oil is deadly! Every responsible homemaker knows this. Oils for consumption must be handled with caution. I prefer supplements that are lab tested for quality assurance. I would never buy “health” products from a group of people who are dying young en masse! I won’t even buy a cookbook if the author does not show superior health outcomes from consuming their diet. It would be very simple for the group to publish regular lab results for their products, rather than make the issue about belief and expressing loyalty by NOT questioning. From the outside looking in, there is no confusion whatsoever about what is happening.
I had several bottles in my fridge that we, thankfully, were not very good about taking, partly because I didn’t have peace about it. All were mostly full and some expired, but they’re all in the trash now. Kaayla, thank you for standing up when you had so much to lose by speaking the truth. I hope others will start listening and questioning. Stevia is another thing that I’ve recently removed from our diet, as I began to question and research it. Just best to stick to food that doesn’t need processing beyond what I could do in my own home.
No offense intended, but it seems like this is all opinion and very little fact. All I see is “believed to have taken FCLO”. What concerns me more is the number of what is supposedly a rare form of brain cancer- glioblastoma. That is very concerning in itself. I am so very sad for all of the families who lost dear ones far too young. I do think that FCLO is something that bears much more research and testing. We now use virgin cod liver oil. My body just cannot swallow down that awful tasting fermented stuff, possibly for good reason. The rate of cancer is alarming. Again, please understand, the intent is not to attack you.
How tragic to read of these deaths. I do not get it. Why would anyone finding out from Kaayla’s lab report that the oil was rancid every take it again? Of course it cannot be absolutely proven but if you go to Kaaylas’s website and Cheeseslave’s blog and your old comments there are many first hand accounts of FCLO users who had medical difficulties which went away when they stopped using the product. I am beside myself to think of parents still giving it to infants. Common sense, rancidity is ultimate poison to the body. It is heartbreaking that anyone would even take that chance out of loyalty to Sally. I am so grateful to Kaayla and you and Cheeseslave and all the others who really fought hard to get the message out that FCLO was potentially dangerous. I cannot help think that may have saved lives. I appreciate how difficult this column must have been to write. I am so very sorry for your personal losses.
Sadly, I think the elephant in the closet is significant portions of the rest of their diet, as Dr. Smith suggests above. Especially, in my opinion and many others,the dairy. To place blame purely on FCLO, such a minuscule portion of the daily consumption of these people, seems off base. The casein level alone in a typical WAPF diet could be potently stimulating IGF-1 levels and thus cancer growth of many kinds.
Why is it that the Massai in Kenya have a history of high raw milk consumption with very low levels of cancer or other disease. Same goes for the French and their raw cheeses.
However, recently, Maasai are dying from Stomach cancers like never before.
In the last 30 years the Kenyan government has embraced a program of western pasteurized milk consumption and elimination of tribal cow populations.
Carcinogenisis is tough to identify with varied origins. Causation is very hard to trace. Yet, when you take the long term view….it’s pretty clear to me
I know a Massai and he says it’s the water in the river and the massive chemical contamination that feeds the cows and the people. It’s also the UHT processing of the milk brought by Nestle and other first world milk processors. A double jeopardy for the gut and immunity.
Casein is not the problem. It is the processing of the milk and the total destruction of the milk genome.
It’s like saying paramedics cause car accidents because you always see a paramedic at car accidents.
Some of the longest lived people on earth drank raw milk and ate raw cheeses.
It’s the glyphosate/Roundup that has spread everywhere. See my other comment in here. It inhibits the proper breakdown/detox of Vitamin A, which then leads to Vitamin A toxicity in people who had not experienced it previously. Your Masai anecdote adds weight to the theory.
Vitamin A toxicity has always been around, particularly since cod liver oil came into fashion (see my referenced link in that other post as well). It is the glyphosate that is causing it to accumulate in the system and wreak damage like never before.
Well said Mark, but I also believe– as Dr. Mercola is fond of saying– “the devil’s in the details”. Dairy products, like all foods (and animals for that matter) are tightly coupled to their photosynthetic environment. The Maasai, like the Swiss villagers in Dr. Price’s study, consumed dairy from animals grazing on the “rapidly-growing green grass” available during only certain seasons. Grass from any other time of year apparently did not impart the same nourishing/protective characteristics to the milk.
Moreover, without refrigeration, indigenous people were obliged to consume the vast majority of their dairy cultured. Any conversation about dairy that doesn’t take these details into consideration is incomplete in my opinion.
As much as I enjoy the rich Pennsylvania Amish dairy, I’ve come to realize that consuming it here in Souther California makes very little sense, whereas consuming Organic Pastures Raw dairy is much more appropriate for this sunny San Diego gal!
Our microbiome is coupled to the photosynthetic conditions that we AND our food are subject to. Jeff Leach demonstrated this beautifully with his Hadza research. To uncouple ourselves by consuming dairy– or any food, maybe up to and including CLO–outside of our local food shed, out of the ideal season for that food, or when that food is incompletely/improperly processed, might ultimately prove foolhardy in the extreme.
Mark, you’re post is fine, but your use of the word “raw” as in the sentence below is misleading.
You said, “Some of the longest lived people on earth drank raw milk and ate raw cheeses.”
Many people in the U.S. falsely believe that if it is raw milk or contains raw milk, then it hasn’t been heat damaged. This has lead many a consumer to think that the cheeses sold at a supermarket are not heat damaged, if they are made with raw milk. That would be highly unlikely, despite the proper raw designation.
It is not right to say a food is raw on a forum, because raw has one meaning for the public and different meanings for different foods.
I don’t know that I buy into the FCLO being the culprit. WAPF folks following Sally’s cookbook, eat a lot of sugar as they think organic sugar etc is ok but it is not, it feeds cancer just like conventional sugar/carbs. I remember them complaining about cavities when they were eating WAPF way. I told them carbs and sugar were the issue. DR Price was against sugars etc. would be interesting to hear about their diets, what exactly they were eating most of the time.
I can personally attest to Kim’s extremely low-sugar diet, so we can safely take that out of the equation.
You don’t have to consume sugar to have a glucose problem and sugar consumption is often the smaller part of a glucose issue. “Extremely low sugar”, it sounds like you’re trying to convince someone. As a food purist, I don’t use any sugar or any processed foods, albeit I did buy sugar about 54 years ago. If you only give up sugar completely, then you’ve only lessened the issue, which is often worse for some than it is for others.
Blood Test are revealing: F Glucose<86; HA1C<4½; Trig<60 and Trig/LDL<2. These BT tell a lot.
I finally found the word I was going to use to describe the WAPF almost at the end of the article…cult.
I prefer the term “life-saver”, as a traditional diet has released me from almost 30 symptoms.I imagine this is pretty typical for most other WAPFers, as eating the way God intended tends to do that.
Cult. Guru. Followers blindly drinking the Kool Aid. Interesting that FCLO new label has Jesus symbols. . .
When I read about Dr. Ron Schmid and ill effects of CLO on the heart, I thought of thiamine deficiency. There are references in this article by Dr. Derrick Lonsdale to phytanic acid accumulation and I have found studies which discuss heart problems which could coincide with phytanic acid. Dr. Ron Schmid found a study that linked high dose CLO in mice to heart problems.
There’s a lot more negative research on cod liver oil than one mouse study. https://nutritionrestored.com/blog-forum/topic/cod-liver-oil-is-a-poison-and-the-research-has-always-said-so/
What’s up with Millers. No raw milk permit….no testing, no inspections. Bangs Brucollosis testing is one of the easy tests to perform and i done by state health department inspectors all over the USA on a routine basis. It called the Milk Ring Test or MRT. If there is a questionable result an Elisa test can confirm.
I consider this to be bad news for raw milk. If you are going to be a raw milk producer….be a good one or don’t do it at all. Good raw milk producers test their milk and have Grass to Glass plans to assure low risk!!
Brucelosis is an easy one. This is just being lazy and or sloppy. You can test the entire herd from one simple bulk tank sample several times per year. Easy.
Mark, this is a different Miller than you are assuming. The RB51 infection that was detected in one individual apparently originated from vaccine in a cow, not from sanitation problems. The challenge, as I understand it, is to determine if a cow in the farmer’s herd was vaccinated and, if so, which one. I’ll be writing more about this.
Two similar names:
Miller’s Organic Farms run by Amos Miller – http://www.millersorganicfarm.com
Miller’s Biodiversity Farm run by Aaron Miller – https://amishbiofarm.com
For both of them: Are they are licensed by the state? How often they test their milk and which tests do they do? What is their average coliform count and standard plate count? What are the ranges (mix and max) of both counts? Do they test for pathogens and for which ones? And, do they have on-farm food safety plans?
There are no farms or farm owners with the name “Miller” holding legal permits in the State of PA to sell raw milk, bottled raw milk or aged cheese. Listing found at the PA Department of Agriculture website, on the right side under “Publications.”
We don’t know when they test their milk, coliform counts, plate counts, safety plans, or what tests they use unless they discuss this on a website. You just have to take your chances if you consume milk from a dairy that does not hold a permit.
Miller’s Organic Farm does not sell those products to the general public and thus no permits are required. Also, in PA. Mark Nolt sell only from his farm and thus he also needs no permit. Your choice of words implies that those products are riskier then elsewhere. Such an implication is naive and not bore out by statistics or common sense. I do not and would not buy animal products from a farm I didn’t know, no matter how many licenses they may have. And since an outsider can’t buy from Miller’s and you must go to Mark’s to buy from him, you will have first hand knowledge of their farm. In contrast, anyone in Pa. can buy from The Family Cow, which has all necessary permits, etc. and who’s products have been in stores. And if I didn’t know that they are also an excellent farm, I wouldn’t even consider using their products based on nothing more than those permits. Those permits also prevent TFC from offering the wide selection of quality dairy items being offered by the other two farms. These are just three of the top quality farms in Pa. and I would buy from any of them, plus likely others.
Initially Kaayla blamed FCLO for the deaths of Dierdra Curry and another unnamed individual; both died from an aneurysm. She also tried to blame those same deaths on Biokult. I just can’t keep up. So which is it….aneurysms or cancer? And so many different types of cancer? Is it FCLO, Biokult, or just anyone associated with Sally Fallon and the Weston A Price Foundation?
Deidre Currie and Katherine Williams died of pulmonary embolism. In 2009 I investigated the possibility that BioKult might be a contributor if not the cause. Sally Fallon strong armed me into stopping that investigation. I stopped because I wished to continue working for the Weston A. Price Foundation and because I had not found conclusive evidence against Biokult or similar probiotics. Had I been allowed to continue that investigation, I would have discovered that both women were also taking FCLO. I would also have found research studies linking extremely rancid oils to pulmonary embolism. There have been a surprising number of cases of pulmonary embolism in the Weston A. Price Foundation Community. Not all of the victims have died fortunately, but the numbers of cases well exceeds statistical probability.
I deeply regret that I stopped investigating FCLO back in 2009. Had I continued that investigation and published my findings, much illness could have been prevented and many lives could have been saved.
Kaayla, Besides stop taking FCLO, what would you recommend for recovery from past use?
Good question, Joe. As you’ve noted, the obvious first step is to quit FCLO. That alone can make a huge difference. To date I’ve received hundreds of letters from people who made no other changes but now report lower levels of C-reactive protein and other markers of inflammation. In terms of heart issues, people who stopped taking FCLO have reported fewer or no heart palpitations, arrhythmias and episodes of afib. Many say they’ve healed their guts and digestive issues. Several people have told me their cancers went into remission.
I also got a few letters from people who said they quit FCLO, but then started taking it again based on Sally Fallon’s recommendations. These people told me they saw their symptoms resolve after they quit FCLO but then show up when they began consuming it again. These people believe it was a clear case of cause and effect.
As a clinical nutritionist, I go a few steps beyond stopping FCLO. I like to see the whole picture in terms of each individual’s lifestyle, genetics, diet and stress. I recommend lab testing of Vitamins A and D (most practitioners err in only testing the D). I also like to look at the regulation of iron, copper and magnesium in the body. With that lab data, I make recommendations that will optimize the body’s ability to heal itself. It’s going to take a year or so to rid the body of accumulated rancid oils so my goal is to reduce as many toxins and stressors as possible. FCLO’s not the only demon in the environment after all. People who want to know more can contact me through my website DrKaaylaDaniel.com or Facebook page. facebook.com/drkaayladaniel
Thank you for sharing this valuable information.
Start with liver support: Artichoke X, Barberry X, Sarsaparilla X and Lipoic Acid.
You will need a protocol to detox the liver. There are many good ones, such as “5 Steps to Restoring Health Protocol,” by Dr. Jay Davidson. Note that step 5 will be for depuration! Another option would be a Crinnion depuration program.
Biokult contains the Bacillus subtilis soil bacteria which sporulates and produces biofilms. It is not a bacteria naturally occurring in the gut. Some members of this family are very pathogenic bacteria, such as anthrax. The product is sold by Dr. Natasha Campbell McBride who also recommends FCLO.
Interesting that the Biokult Infantus contains no soil bacteria. However it does contain fructooligosaccharides which are also NOT found in the infant gut and acacia gum. Both could become problematic and cause gastrointestinal distress. Other ingredients are fish oil, milk and soy.
With all due respect, Sylvia, I disagree with the ideas that Bacillus subtilis and biofilms are dangerous and that subtilis does not naturally occur in the gut.
In fact, I believe that Bacillus subtilis will very soon become possibly the single most important tool we have for reversing the epidemic of antibiotic-resistant bacteria.
When looking at gut microbiome science, it’s wisest to give credence only to the most recent clinical studies. Anything published before about 2012-13 is based on outdated science that did not have access to the newest technology and discoveries just emerging out of the Human Microbiome Project.
All bacteria and fungi produce biofilms. A biofilm is essentially a microbe’s root structure. There’s nothing inherently dangerous about a biofilm.
Also, spore simply means shell. Some bacillus strains have naturally evolved to have an encapsulation that enables it to survive extremes.
As far as subtilis being a “soil” versus “gut” bacteria, it is actually both, although I would argue that its natural home is truly the gut since it is designed through evolution to come alive there, not the soil.
While it is found in the soil (as well as water, air, etc), that is only in its inactive, shell (spore) protected state – key word: inactive.
If, however, in its inactive state it catches a ride on an organically growing plant consumed by an animal, the shell will protect it from stomach acidity. Upon reaching the gut, its natural home, the bacteria will come alive, remove the spore shell, and perform its many pathogen-killing functions.
For example, it has been found to be particularly effective at killing MRSA and Clostridium Difficile and may prove to be one of the most important tools we have for addressing the looming epidemic of deaths from drug-resistant pathogens.
Bacillus subtilis does, in fact, naturally occur in the gut and has been characterized by microbiologists as not only “ubiquitous” but also “gut commensal” meaning it is not just safe for humans, but actually provides benefit.
However, while the intestines is where Bacillus subtilis comes alive, it is not a permanent gut colonizer. Instead, it travels down the length of the intestines over about 3 weeks, at which point it recognizes it is moving back into a hostile environment, so resporulates and gets returned to the soil through feces.
Now it is again an inactive “soil” bacteria waiting to hitch a ride on a plant and get consumed by animal.
This is a natural cycle for all animals, all of which get benefit by having this particular bacillus strain in their intestinal tract. (Think cats and dogs eating grass…)
Bacillus subtilis has been studied by microbiologists for over 150 years and has been being safely prescribed by physicians (and veterinarians) in Europe and Asia since the early 50’s for its benefits for the gut.
Just Thrive’s published human clinical trial using their proprietary formula of licensed spore bacillus strains, including Bacillus subtilis HU58, on Leaky Gut showed a 42% reduction in the toxins produced by pathological bacteria, 24% reduction in triglyerides, a dramatic reduction in circulating ghrelin (the “hunger hormone”) as well as “significant” reductions in levels measuring sugar metabolism and diabetes markers including A1C, Fasting glucose and Post-prandial insulin response.
As national sales manager for Just Thrive, I would be very happy to connect you personally with Kiran Krishnan, the research microbiologist behind Just Thrive and one of the world’s experts on the effects of gut commensal spore bacillus strains on the gut microbiome. Just call the Just Thrive office 800-455-8939 and leave me a message for how you can be reached.
David, I think this article speaks more to the fact that even eating a “healthy diet” from a WAPF, ancestral or similar diet can’t save you from cancer. Trying to draw a correlation to FCLO as a primary or secondary catalyst ignores the whole human being as a factor in their own health.
I remember a talk Tom Cowan gave suggesting civilization is more catalyst for cancer or at least an unintended partner. I am more privy to this route of perspective in trying to help people.
Curious what is your purpose or intended outcome with this article?
Rob, my purpose all along has been to alert people to safety concerns about FCLO. From the time I first tried FCLO back in 2009 (and couldn’t tolerate it), I have been concerned about it. I didn’t go public with my concerns until I began learning about health problems being reported online by FCLO users. Then, Kaayla Daniel’s study, done independently of anything I had reported, increased my concern. I expected the Weston A. Price Foundation, the primary outside promoter of FCLO besides Green Pasture, the manufacturer, would exercise reasonable caution, and alert its members to back off from usage. Instead, the WAPF has refused to back off from its endorsement of the product and encouragement of people to continue using it. Moreover, it has treated members and a board member who questioned its stance as enemies. So I’ve just tried to keep up on the concerns about the product and alert the community of users about possible health issues related to the product.
David, what kind of resolution would you like to see with WAPF? Do you feel they are dangerous?
I’d like to see WAPF take several steps:
1. Discontinue endorsing the Green Pasture FCLO;
2 Warn its members that FCLO appears to be a factor in serious health problems ranging from skin rashes to brain cancer, and that those members who insist on continuing to use it should do so with great care and caution;
3. Arrange for independent outside testing of FCLO by reputable lab(s), with the results interpreted by a panel of independent outside scientific experts. Pending the results of that testing, there could be adjustments to steps 1 and 2.
I would characterize WAPF’s actions the last few years with regard to FCLO as reckless.
David’s intended outcome? Isn’t it obvious? He’s trying to save lives. People are still taking FCLO because Sally Fallon’s still pushing it for who knows what reason. FCLO is not the only cause of cancer obviously but it’s a common denominator in the WAPF community.
REALLY?? You missed the other common denominator as in a predominately MEAT diet? And before you go off on me, I am not Vegan.
I came across this interesting historical (1922) study on cod liver oil, which might help us understand its history. It compares the healing power of fresh CLO to oxidized CLO in healing rickets and xerophthalmia (eye problems caused by low vitamin A).
The oxidized CLO is probably very different from the fermented CLO pushed by the WAPF.
Do no harm, is important. But not doing any good is also a huge problem.
I quit taking FCLO, after taking it for a year to raise my very low vitamin D level.
Instead of raising my level, it dropped, precipitously, from 17 to an apparently unmeasurable level of <6.
I bought and faithfully swallowed that nasty stuff for an entire year and I got worse. Much worse.
Chris Masterjohn wrote an article “Precious Yet Perilous” that is posted on the Weston A Price Foundation website.
The article is about the dangers of rancid PUFAs and how they can contribute to cancer, heart disease and birth defects.
“Many of these oxidized fatty acids will continue to degenerate into smaller compounds, like a glass that shatters into many pieces. One such compound, malondialdehyde (MDA), is shown in the figure. MDA is particularly dangerous because it can leave the membrane and damage proteins, DNA, and other important cellular structures. This process can be likened to the shattering of delicate glass, which results in a mess of dangerous shards that must be properly cleaned up.”
Dr. Mary Enig also wrote articles about the dangers of rancid PUFAs that are published on the WAPF website.
However, what makes the Masterjohn article of particular interest, is that FCLO has 10x more MDA than standard cod liver oil, according to the following study):
“MDA, an indicator of polyunsaturated fatty acid oxidation, was 10-fold higher in the fermented product”
Why does WAPF vigorously defend FCLO?
Why does WAPF defend FCLO? The Fallon Faithful believe most PUFAS go rancid and are health hazards but FCLO somehow offers only healing benefits.
The late Ramiel Nagel said “I believe it’s rancid. I also know it’s a special sacred form of rancidity.”
Good Point! Thanks for the link to this paper.
It’s interesting that Chris brought up the toxic secondary oxidation product, MDA, as being so harmful; yet possibly the lab that Sally used in the UK to test the FCLO never tested for it.
In an email between Dr. Martin Grootveld and Sally about testing the FCLO she asked him about testing for MDA. He said, more or less, forget about that, what about the alpha beta oxidized unsaturated aldehydes? These are also secondary toxic oxidation product found in omega 3’s and omega 6’s, both found in fish oil. He believed them to be even more toxic. This is debatable.
Did he steer her away from the MDA for a reason?
The a, b toxic aldehydes only form in food oils that have been heated to high temperatures. Dr. Grootveld would know this because he published on the topic of heating vegetable oils. FCLO is not heated to high temperatures and thus no toxic a,b, aldehydes would normally be found in it.
The expert in the US on toxic products in oils is Dr. A. Csallany who has published many papers on the topic. Around this time in 2014 when the FCLO questions arose, Sally asked Nina Techolz for lab recommendations, and Nina told her about Dr. Csallany from the Department of Food and Nutrition at University of Minnesota, and Dr. Grootveld from School of Pharmacy, DeMontfort University in U.K
Dr. Grootveld uses mainly the nuclear magnetic resonance (NMR) method to test for the toxic aldehydes. It is not certain if NMR is used to test for MDA in oils.
Dr. Kaayla Daniel used the only test available to her to test for MDA- the TBARS test –which Dr. Grootveld said was “garbage.” Sally let us know this in the her writings.
Yet many prestigious labs STILL use TBARs to test for MDA –it is acceptable, quick and inexpensive. In the link given here to the Faseb paper, the researchers used calorimetric testing (TBARS).
While I agree with your statement as to the safety of FCLO and stopped using it myself a while back due to concern, the fact that you would use a time of deep loss and heartache for family and friends (myself included) to promote your agenda is concerning, not only to your ethics but also your compassion as a fellow human. You should be ashamed to post something like this so soon. This is not the time for statistics but a time for love and mourning.
Caroline, I appreciate your concern about timing of my report. From my vantage point as a writer and reporter, it’s really difficult to know what the “right time” is. I knew about Kim Schuette’s illness last spring. I knew, based on the prognosis in such illnesses, that she was likely to die within some months. Should I have written about it then, while she was ill, to alert people she was likely to die? If not then, how long do you wait after she has died? In our culture, deaths/obituaries are usually reported immediately after a person has died, so friends and acquaintances can possibly attend the funeral, and mourn.
When I first learned of Kim’s death, I was just going to write something about her. But as I asked around about her, I was encouraged to mention other individuals who had died within the last few years under similar circumstances. I decided that Kim’s death was probably an appropriate occasion to get information out about others. And even when I posted this report, I heard from others who chastised me for not mentioning still others (some of whom have been alluded to in comments). It’s a tough call, no matter how you handle it.
As for my “agenda,” not sure what you are referring to.
Hello David, unfortunately it called dammed if you do and dammed if you don’t. With emotions running high, there is no way that you aren’t going to offend some people. Hopefully, you will be able to forgive those that bestow unearned criticism upon you.
So David lacks compassion for publishing information that could save the lives and health of others? He should be commended for doing the right thing.
Oh please. This is about saving lives. Is that not critical and urgent?
What distinguishes those taking FCLO who have suffered ill health effect from those who take FCLO who haven’t experienced ill health? Why haven’t those who advocate and presumably take large doses of FCLO for themselves, such as Sally Fallon and Dave Wetzel, all experienced ill health? Do certain nutrient deficiencies or something about one’s lifestyle predispose some to poor health effects from taking FCLO, if that is the culprit?
Lynn, There are many unanswered questions. Is it possible that we may not have heard of some individuals experiencing health problems from taking FCLO unless they would let the public know ? Especially those who are promoting it. And as a not-for-profit, is it appropriate to promote so heavily and invest so much of the members funds into this campaign to promote one particular brand and keep their tax-free status?
Many people are loyal to WAPF and would not think that a substance that Sally Fallon recommends could cause ill health, even if they did experience symptoms. Even Dr. Price himself had a many caveats about consuming cod liver oil . He advised that that it always be taken with butter oil. There was an article written about this topic by the Price Pottenger folks who scoured Dr. Price’s work for such statements: “What Dr. Price Really Said About Cod Liver Oil.”
I often wonder, if it is such a great product, why don’t other producers make it? There is no patent on the process.
We absolutely do *not* recommend taking high doses! Dr. Price himself warned against this, and even Dr. Ron Schmid publicly attributed his problems to taking too much, as he had taken extreme amounts for years, first of non-fermented cold-processed oil, then later the fermented version.
For a great many of us FCLO has been a very beneficial addition to our diet that has helped us recover from a wide variety of problems, including several in my own family.
Kaayla’s report from several years ago does not in any way prove the product rancid, as several lipid scientists reviewing both her data and that of 4 other independent labs has shown. In fact, it has even recently been tested, without the prior knowledge of WAPF or GPP, and shown to be not only “safe”, but highly beneficial!
Please give a listen to a recent Wise Traditions podcast, listen with an open mind, and determine for yourself what is truth, and what are lies and misrepresentations:
In the past Sally did recommend large doses of 3 tbsp a day. She recommended it to me personally, to the late Dr. Ron Schmid, and to many others as well. I discuss this in my blog here:
I address Sally’s podcast — truly an “infomercial” — in my blog “A Big Dose of Codswallop” here
Didn’t you see above where Dr. Daniel said she has received dozens of letters in which people told her their symptoms backed off when they stopped FCLO. And started up again if they started taking FCLO again. These people saw clear cause and effect. Given Sally’s obesity, I would say she’s definitely showing some signs of ill health.
Is there any evidence that Sally or David take FCLO?
That’s a big assumption.
Take a look at Sally herself and see the evidence. Massive weight gain since 2006 and chronic inflammation and puffiness. Listen to that podcast Maureen recommends. Sally actually brags about the good health she’s got from FCLO. If that’s good health, no thanks.
Give me a break, we’re going to blame every death on fclo? Ridiculous! Cherie did not take fclo, and Kim rarely did. Cherie underwent some very difficult hormone therapy 15 years ago, and this is what she attributed her unusual and aggressive form of breast cancer to, which is supported by medical studies.
We all have a huge risk factor just having drunk, breathed, and eaten all of the typical things people consume, intentionally or not, prior to learning better, including myself. We have experienced decades of poor diets and exposure to toxins, and are now surrounded by cell phone radiation (whether or not we even use a cell phone). Most of us, including those you mention in your article, live crazy-hectic lives, full of stress and with little time to relax, breath, rest (and of course, for most of us breathing is in and of itself problematic, with polluted air).
Kim told me before she died that she just hoped people wouldn’t attribute her illness to fclo. David, she knew of your viciousness and inaccurate assessments on this topic, she would not be surprised to find that you did exactly what she did not want to have happen.
Maureen, I was just thinking as I came to your comment, about how reasoned and informed the discussion about FCLO and WAPF has been this time around, especially given the sad subject of my post. I’ll chalk your accusation against me to your upset about the loss of Kim, and others you knew well.
I doubt we’ll ever know for certain all that was going through Kim’s mind in those last months. I resisted the temptation to try to call her and inquire about her thoughts concerning FCLO, for the simple reason that I didn’t know her well, and didn’t want to upset her at a time when she needed all her energy to focus on her illness and her family.
In an earlier comment, Annie Dru, who was a good friend, said this: “Did FCLO play a part? No telling, but what I can say is that last February I took her to lunch and literally begged her to reconsider her endorsement of the product. She was steadfast in her support of Sally and the foundation’s commitment to uphold their position.”
I suspect Kim had all kinds of emotions after she learned of her illness. Sadness, fear, regret, guilt, anger, denial, second guessing, and on and on. How could she not? I’m also sure she felt supported and let down by various people she knew, sometimes feeling both supported and let down by the same people.
From all I can tell, she fought her illness with bravery and dignity, and she left a legacy of caring and love felt by many people over many years. Quite a legacy. Those of us still here would probably do best to try to uphold that spirit, and avoid name-calling and guilt-tripping.
So having drunk, breathed and eaten is why the rate of glioblastoma in the WAPF community is 10 times the average population? 10X the rate of people on regular diet? Pleasssssse. The product is rancid beyond belief. The brain is 60% fat. Try using the brain God gave you. What’s going on up there if you’ve been “nourishing” your brain with FCLO since 2006?
Remember that the majority of people in this list are “understood” to have taken FCLO. This is pseudo-scientific silliness, not data and evidence.
LOUISE K. FYI PENNSYLVANIA REQUIRES A PERMIT FOR ANY SALE OF RAW MILK .HOWEVER THE LAWS OF THIS STATE AND COUNTRY ARE BEING IGNORED FOR PERSONAL BENEFIT BY SELFISH INDIVIDUALS .
Not so fast. PA requirements about permits don’t disallow private sales of food that I am aware of. In other words, the private sales are in a gray area where there is little legal precedent. PA officials (along with officials in other states) are well aware of the existence of private clubs and have mostly refrained from going after them because of the legal risk. When WI and MN went after Vernon Hershberger and Alvin Schlangen a few years back, juries mostly acquitted the farmers, and sent the state lawyers on their way with their tails between their legs.
Hi Bill, and thanks for your post, but no need to shout. Permits and license (differentiated by state law) can only legally be required for sales to the general public and off location. For example, if someone comes to your house or farm, you can sell them some tomatoes from your garden or cookies you baked. But sell those same items to or from a store and you better have all your papers and other requirements in order. And while anything legally produced on a farm can be freely sold from said farm, many states have ignored the law and gone after those without a permit or license in areas like raw milk. In Pa. Mark Nolt had a raw milk permit for years, but the permit restricted his sale of numerous dairy products, so he decided to sell only his products and only from his farm and didn’t renew his permit. The authorities raided his farm on several occasions and destroyed his merchandise, but to no avail. Since he was fully legal they couldn’t stop him and had to give up. You would do well if you learned the facts instead of just presenting your false assumptions. Perhaps if you watched ^Farmageddon^ you could learn some of the basics. Then check out the Farm to Consumer Legal Defense Fund at 3w’s farmtoconsumer org and perhaps you’ll be able to write a new post without all that egg all over your face!
Hi Louise This is what the PDAs regulations say about raw milk sales. A person may not sell raw molk for human consumption without having a raw milk permit issued by the Department. The term “sell “includes the selling ,changing, delivering or having in possession, care ,control or custody with intent to sell ,exchange,deliver or to offer or to expose for sale.As far as Mark Nolt is concerned he had a raw milk permit,he did not have a right to sell other dairy products on his farm such as yogurt, butter ,etc in the raw stage as it is against the law in PA. .As far as his legal case did you ever hear of jury nullification ,an example would be a case of a proven murderer in California wo was found not guilty because he was a famous football player called OJ. Farmers in the USA milk cows ,sheep goats etc which is good ,the FARM to CONSUMER LEGAL DENFENCE FUND milk the donars that donate money $$to them .I do not have any egg on my face especially any unwashed egg .
Hi David, the basic law isn’t really that gray. Consider a neighbor that will babysit your child and whether they need any permits etc. If they babysit at your home or at their own home, then probably not, but at another location, even if they own it, then probably yes. The gray comes in when it occurs often and with many people and a larger amount of money is changing hands. Nether the state nor code enforcers like that arrangement and will often try to put the party under there control. The gray also comes in where they are bias, such as any raw milk that isn’t under their control. The FtCLDF was established to fight all those overt abuses by the authorities. You can learn more at their website if you are interested. ☺
The gray comes primarily from so-called private sales. These are product sales to a defined group, whether a food club or a herdshare, or similar arrangement. I provide a lot of information on such private arrangements in my book, “The Raw Milk Answer Book”.
Thank-you for writing this. I found it a few weeks ago after sadly learning Kim passed on. Today I read your tribute to Dr. Ron. I have complex health challenges and in 2015, at age 52, was diagnosed with a visual field defect during a standard optometry test. My head pain improved dramatically after removing chicken broth from my diet. This article from Kim’s company helped me understand my sensitivity to glutamate. http://www.biodynamicwellness.com/stock-vs-broth-confused/. I’ve never tolerated cod liver oil but am grateful to have found South River Azuki bean and Chickpea miso and Custom Probiotics D-Lactate free probiotic. For other comment readers who are trying to save their life or help a loved one, more details of my experiences were published by my local newspaper. https://www.valleycenter.com/articles/detoxing-and-eliminating-lead-helps-fight-fibromyalgia-2/ Very best wishes!
Could this be targeted assassination from the oligarchy? I cannot make the connection between cod liver oil and brain cancer? Would would be the causal pathway?
An interesting article, but I do not know what to think. It’s hard to understand what is the connection 🙁
These people are probably dying from retinoid toxicity. Retinoids are way more toxic than most people realize.
Cod Liver Oil has up to 100,000 IU’s of VA per 100 grams — which is basically the highest amount of VA in any normally consumed food. Compare it to ~17,000 IUs in the same amount of beef liver, which is already super high compared to something like 520 in eggs and 160 in milk and 80 in lean beef.
Furthermore, Cod Liver Oil has potential to be even more toxic because under same conditions in which all oils will oxidize, the retinol in the oils will likely also oxidize, and the oxidation byproduct of retinol is retinoic acid.
Retinoic acid is extremely toxic. Isomers of this substance are known as Accutane (Isotretinoin), which is toxic enough to cause birth defects if taken by pregnant women, and tretinoin — which is toxic enough to be used as a chemotherapy drug for leukemia. You can look up the side effects of either drugs to see the kind of damage that retinoic acid can do to the body.
So FCLO is probably a toxic brew of not just super high Vitamin A but also small amounts of retinoic acid — making it so that daily ingestion of FCLO is essentially like micro-dosing a chemotherapy drug every day.
And to make it worse, the VA is accumulating in your body and what happens when your liver (the primary storage organ for VA) is overloaded? Well, if you keep on consuming way more VA than your body can use, it will eventually “spill over” and your body will be forced to store this fat soluble vitamin in other tissues, and some of this retinol will be converted to the highly toxic retinoic acid inside the body, and doing even more damage.
So yes, Vitamin A — primarily via its metabolite retinoic acid — can be and is extremely toxic and, yes, it can kill you.
I have learned this from Grant Genereux, who is the guy who figured all this out and has explained his theory of Vitamin A toxicity all in great detail on his blog: https://ggenereux.blog/2017/04/29/vitamin-a-oh-no-its-not/
I hope that others can help spread the word about this to all the WAPF people and anyone taking any kind of CLO — or even just eating too much liver or taking too much supplemental VA. Even the mainstream recognizes VA toxicity (aka hypervitaminosis A) but they underestimate it and misunderstand this substance completely. Read Genereux’s research and you’ll see why.
What about beta-carotene?
Our former local WAPF chapter leader passed away from ovarian cancer last year. This is very scary! She religiously took Fermented Skate Liver Oil as opposed to FCLO.
I’m no expert, but my sense is it’s the fermentation (rancidity) rather than the exact type of fish oil that is the big risk factor here.
I believe that fermented cod liver oil in a perfect world would be an ideal super food. However, with the pollution of the oceans, and in particular, the Pacific by both China, the U.S, other industrial countries, as well as the mass leakage of nuclear radiation by Japan’s Fukushima reactor, the cod, a 120 lb. fish, is highly susceptible to bio-accumulation/magnification of those poisons. Taking CFLO from fish raised in the Pacific is like eating raw sewage, heavy metals, pharmaceutical waste, and radioactive material. I highly advise against it.
I think you have to be a real lowlife to take advantage of people’s deaths to make a point. You have no evidence anyway. Unless you can prove that their deaths are directly attributable to, say FCLO, you need to shut up.
In a supposed “healthy” group of people, so many getting sick and dying young- worse than those on a “Standard American Diet”, something is definitely off. I don’t think it is specifically the rancid fish oil, as much as it is the overall WAP Foundation dietary pattern- of which a rancid fish liver oil makes worse. It’s actually not a “healthy” diet afterall. What a shame to waste the valuable kernels of truth of Weston A. Price’s findings, in a pseudoscientific cauldron of speculation and conjecture about alleged healthy foods.
As someone diagnosed with breast cancer at 35 after following what I thought was a very healthy diet and lifestyle …including FCLO from green pastures which I took for a couple years, never high doses though. I am devastated to read this. I am no longer taking it but I still have cancer years later…. Even for the naysayers saying it’s not the FCLO, the high levels of cancer in this population is alarming and should be thoroughly examined.
Oh My God, people are dying, it must be FCLO. Fools.
Maybe it has something to do with the overall diet that WAPF pushes and not one specific element that some of the deceased consumed?
If the WAPF diet was so healthy, a tablespoon of rancid oil a few days a week wouldn’t be making people drop dead.