Business As Usual? Fed Agencies Seem to Wait Their Turn to Go After Amos Miller 

One of the regulatory riddles surrounding the U.S. government’s long-running inspection order against Pennsylvania Amish farmer Amos Miller has been why the U.S. Department of Agriculture moved front-and-center on the case instead of the U.S. Food and Drug Administration. Now, based on documents I obtained under a Freedom of Information Act request to the U.S. Centers for Disease Control, it seems clear that USDA may be only the first of several agencies waiting in line to pursue Miller.

The inspection order, formalized last June by a federal judge, stemmed from listeria discovered in Miller’s raw milk in 2016, which was associated by the CDC with an illness in California and a death in Florida. While USDA documents supporting the inspection order referred to the raw milk episode, the USDA went after Miller based on alleged mislabeling of meat he sells to hundreds of food club members.

The U.S. Food and Drug Administration is charged with overseeing all dairy in interstate commerce—pasteurized and raw—while the USDA has responsibility for regulating meat.

The CDC documents I obtained in the last few weeks stem from a request I made last March for documentation about the CDC investigation of Miller’s milk. The agency provided me with 40 pages of documents, most of which are redacted of information related to the actual testing and contact with relatives of the individuals sickened.

But there are several pages of email correspondence among CDC personnel related to the release of the CDC announcement of an “outbreak” of two illnesses attributed to Miller’s farm. (The designation of the illnesses as an “outbreak” became questionable when it was discovered that an elderly Florida woman who allegedly died from listeria in raw milk was being treated with chemotherapy in connection with cancer, while an elderly California man who became sick had a host of ailments.)

One email  from Feb. 26, 2016, (just three weeks before the CDC published its online report on Miller’s farm) says, “FDA requested the summary memo attached to potentially obtain a court order for FDA to inspect the dairy.” The “summary memo” wasn’t included in the material provided to me.

It’s not clear from the emails why the USDA took over the legal enforcement part of the investigation rather than FDA; one possibility is the FDA wanted USDA to test the legal waters in a case against Miller and private food, so FDA could learn from the USDA experience, and take legal action following up on USDA.

The emails I received also indicate the Pennsylvania Department of Agriculture was being kept actively involved in the CDC investigation, though one email noted the state was unable to act immediately because Miller’s “does not sell milk in Pennsylvania.” PDA could thus also become active eventually against Miller.

It’s clear from the email exchanges that the CDC investigation seeking to link the Miller’s farm milk with illnesses had a huge following within the agency. One email announcing the posting of the “outbreak” news posting in March went to more than 50 CDC personnel.

The investigation was also being followed at the agency’s highest levels, with much seriousness. One email two days after the internet posting, from Robert Tauxe, director of Foodborne, Waterborne, and Environmental Diseases, to Laura Burnworth, the CDC official overseeing the preparation of the web site material, was joyous: “Many many thanks, Laura, for an heroic effort. A thing of beauty is a joy forever.”

In the meantime, Miller remains bogged down with the USDA inspection order. The USDA conducted inspections last summer, and then sought a contempt of court order in the fall, when Miller declined to provide member information sought by the agency. While it seems as if Miller may have satisfied USDA requests by providing redacted information about his food club members, the judge in the case hasn’t ruled officially, and USDA officials are expected to continue the inspection any week now, with its final verdict and possible penalties still to come.


In my previous post, I noted that regulatory assaults against raw milk producers appear to have slowed nationally. But that doesn’t mean federal agencies like the FDA or USDA have shown any inclination to back off from existing cases involving the Amish.

As I posted Wednesday in the comments section of this blog, Amish salve maker Sam Girod was convicted Wednesday by a federal jury in Kentucky in connection with violations of food and drug laws in a case brought by the FDA. It’s a terribly sad and disheartening case, which may well result in Girod, who is in his fifties, spending the rest of his life in jail.

To me, the cases of Miller and Girod carry potentially important implications beyond the flimsiness of the cases themselves. Many people have been waiting to see if the election of Donald Trump, with his promise to drastically reduce government regulation, might have an effect on FDA and USDA approaches to private food.

I have been very opposed to Trump, but have been very much prepared to be pleasantly surprised to see him follow through on his promise to “drain the swamp” by going after regulators who take so much joy in legally crippling farmers like Amos Miller or the maker of healing salves like Sam Girod.

It seems clearer each day that such cases are allowed to proceed that food and related regulation is very low on the new administration’s priority list, just as it was with the old administration. There still isn’t even a nominee to head the FDA. And the proposed secretary of agriculture was the last cabinet position filled (with a Big Ag proponent), even as the old secretary of agriculture headed off to a cushy job serving Big Dairy. Business as usual.

Supporters of Sam Girod couldn’t even get responses from Kentucky pols, and Trump allies, Rep. Thomas Massie and Sen. Rand Paul, in efforts to get the government to step back from its prosecution of Girod. They seem to have gotten the message.

Instead, the regulatory action seems to be at places like the Environmental Protection Agency, which is pushing for more pollution by coal producers, and presumably including by owners of CAFOs (confined animal feeding operations).  Then there’s the effort to tighten regulations on immigrants and, of course, the ongoing assault on the media, presumably for reporting on the new administration’s inconsistent efforts.

I do give Trump credit for one thing: being a masterful manipulator of the political agenda. He has many supporters of food rights urging him to throw out immigrants and dismantle Obama Care, even as he continues to ignore the entire problem of food and farm over-regulation. The regulators at the CDC, FDA, and USDA must be starting to breathe a big sigh of relief at the gullibility of the masses.

58 comments to Business As Usual? Fed Agencies Seem to Wait Their Turn to Go After Amos Miller 

  • You assume that Trump has the intellengence, patience or desire to read reports or ask questions……no he does not. He is too busy kissing Putins Ass, listening to Bannon, or Twitting. He is an ego centric ass with no capacity for truly governing. A governor needs to know about the origins of food and farming in order to direct farm policy. He is clueless. Knows nothing of food production.

    Just because Trump can read a TelePrompter in one speech, does not excuse years of lying and immoral unethical conduct and does not excuse his bucket of lies, coercion with Putin, failure to release his taxes, or PGate, racism, nationalism, extreme budget recklessness with proposed Trillion dollar deficite spending, hating of the Media, hating of the truth, judge hating, dismantling our health care, or wall building mania.

    He was elected to drain the swamp…..he has inoculated the swap with pathogens and a whole new level of billionaire predators.

    I am part of the good ten % David wrote about. Not going away and not sitting down or shutting up.

    • Gordon S Watson

      no = “not going away and not sitting down or shutting up” …. no matter how trite and inane your comments on politics are. What a laugh that you fault PRESIDENT TRUMP for ” .. can read a TelePrompterin one speech” … you must’ve confused him with the previous President, the Magic Negro, whose entire career was built on his talent for reading lines from the TelePrompter

  • Bob Hayles

    My God, David! Trump has been in office barely a month! You are sounding like Chris Matthews!

  • Ken Conrad Ken Conrad

    I think an important fact to keep in mind with respect to illegal immigrants in The United States… as in Canada, is that the laws governing illegals were put in place long before Trump ever assumed power. Hence the reason for Barak Obama’s executive order in 2014 granting “temporary” legal status and work permits to almost five million undocumented immigrants in the US.

    Trumps election platform was based on enforcing those existing laws via executive order. Is that not what he’s doing? And is he not within his legal right to do so?

    That being said and this is one of my ongoing concerns with respect to “the law” and those responsible for its enforcement… and that is, the failure to deal with each case on its own merit, while exercising discretion such as compassion and reason. As Solzhenitsyn pointed out, “A society based on the letter of the law and never reaching any higher fails to take advantage of the full range of human possibilities. The letter of the law is too cold and formal to have a beneficial influence on society. Whenever the tissue of life is woven of legalistic relationships, this creates an atmosphere of spiritual mediocrity that paralyzes man’s noblest impulses.”

    This balancing act between enforcing the law and achieving “the full range of human possibilities” is a scenario that very few leaders and their governments, if any, have been able to successfully and fully achieve. And why is that the case?… because the law tends to be at odds with our conscience.

    As Harry Truman correctly stated, “The fundamental basis of this nation’s laws was given to Moses on the Mount…If we don’t have a proper fundamental moral background, we will finally end up with a totalitarian government which does not believe in rights for anybody except the State.”

  • Zak

    The proof is in the Put’n. Read the label…

    Great reporting David. Personal politics aside (rabbit hole), your article nails it. Thank you!

    I think anyone can pontificate this case ad nausea. The cold harsh reality is that Amish or not, you do not show up to a gun fight pointing a banana at your enemy shouting, “pew pew pew!”

    Something I have to scratch my head about, is when people compare Girod to Miller. Girod fired his appointed attorney, and from what I gather, represented himself citing SC language. His fatal mistake. It is my understanding that among other impotent SC tactics, Girod filed a motion to dismiss his case citing lack of due process, lack of standing and lack of jurisdiction. Whoever is advising him more than likely has deep sovereign citizen ties or beliefs. To each his/her own. Truth be told, I am a true believer in Freedom of Choice and Individual Rights. However, SC armchair lawyering very rarely works in the courts, period. And in the rare case it does, it is usually because of court error.

    Amos is very lucky to have had the salvey to accept legal advice and strategy beyond ProAdvocate, that of which was not working for him. Going forward, Amos will win or lose, setting precedence, on whether or not he continues to listen to those who have shielded him from silver bullets using sound legal and social tactics.

    As far as Mark’s comment, I am not sure what “good ten %” he is part of? It seems he is only displaying the tactics of an agent provocateur and distracting readers from the real issue at hand, real food freedom. After reading his comment again, I must give props in what seems to be an attempt in trying to bait readers into political rants on Trump and Putin instead of staying on point 😉

    The bottom line is that the USDA is the junior varsity that has been sent in to gather intelligence and soften our front line regarding Amos’ ordeal. The FDA is next, and they will bring the varsity, elite forces, against the raw milk movement.

    To all real food advocates, do not be divided. Stay on point and band together in fighting for Amos’ success in fighting the USDA and FDA. Like him or not, his case WILL set precedence. Like Trump or not, raw honey attracts better than sour lemons. “We the People” standing united, focused and unwavering in simple strategy will prevail. Period.

  • My biggest concerns is that, despite not reigning in regulatory agencies in general, Obama had allocated money for projects that are important to me – namely funding organic farmers and scientific research, specifically the Human Microbiome Project. The HMP has been dramatically impacting all of us interested in health just within the last few years with an explosion of new information about the effect of gut health on the immune system.

    The following is from a research microbiologist about how research scientists were already notified that their funding was being terminated for their projects in the FIRST WEEK of Trump’s administration!

    “The very likelihood that NIH research money will start to dry up is a big concern for me. Since Trump seems to be rolling back everything Obama did and his budget needs $12-20 billion for a wall, they are making big cuts in all other areas like research funding. Obama allocated over $150 million for microbiome research specifically and that is part of the money we would have to tap into for this research, Trump will likely roll that money back.

    “In the first conference I went to this year on microbiome research, just 7 days into new administration, the researchers were already talking of drying up of research grants that they were notified on. So there was a lot of discussion on the issue of money already drying up because of wide ranging cuts the new administration is doing to science in general.”

  • Mark McAfee Mark McAfee

    Cancelling Human Genomics NIH funding is a travesty, a tragedy and defies any rational thought. Key essential medical advances will come from genomics and gut research. The little juvenile president has failed us all!!! His judgement is missing !! How are supposed to understand cancer if you do not understand how our bodies work!

    Trump has gone from bad joke…. To criminal tragedy. A crime against all children with an illness. A crime against our bastion of research and study.

    Trump must go….NOW!!

    • blesse'd are the cheese makers

      It’s Saturday night and Mark’s at it again. Mark — You really need to put that crack pipe down, son. Here is the link to Narcotics Anonymous —

      This is getting hard to watch, folks. Somebody take his car keys away from him so he doesn’t get behind the wheel.

      Get him off the keyboard, Mrs. M, please. He’s embarrassing himself — becoming a caricature of an old Richard Pryor character, the junkie on the street bit.

    • Ken Conrad Ken Conrad


      It’s only a travesty for those who desire absolute control and who believe that, “knowledge is power”. Indeed, and although there is a measure truth to that belief or statement, we dare not lose sight of this one unequivocal truth about human nature, “Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely”.

      For those who are not obsessed with control and who understand as Albert Einstein did that, “The harmony of natural law reveals an Intelligence of such superiority that compared with it, all the systematic thinking and acting of human beings is an utterly insignificant reflection”… then, the acquisition of such knowledge (albeit incomplete) will come in due course and will ultimately demand a huge dose of humility and respect… Knowledge is a wonderful achievement in a society where freewill, diversity of thought, and the laws of nature are respected.

      The real travesty is the extent to which humans will go in attempt to achieve more control over everything from A-Z despite the collateral damage that results. The amount of money spent on the military, on genetic engineering, on vaccinations, and on abortions etc. in your country and around the world are cases in point… Unnerving as it is, CS Lewis’ statement appears to be on point with respect to the ongoing predicament humans find themselves in, “Tribulations cannot cease until God either sees us remade or sees that our remaking is now hopeless”.

  • Emma G.

    Correct me if I am wrong but as I understand it:

    – Amos Miller runs an unlicensed farm. Meanwhile there were 127 active licensed raw milk farms in PA in 2016 (148 in 2015).
    – He has one very slick corporate website (found via using Google)
    – According to WAPF “Real Milk Finder” and his website, he distributes to at least 11 states.

    Licensed farms are inspected and must test their milk. Licensed raw milk farms in PA must jump through a lot of loops. It is not fair to licensed farmers that Miller gets to operate outside the law while they do not.

    Questions: Is he testing his milk? Does he have on-farm food safety plans? No-where on this slick website do I see either test results listed or mention of food safety. Do buying club members get this information?

    • Amanda

      The buying club members (myself included) are fully aware of how Miller conducts his farm, and we all signed a membership contract to formalize our agreement with that. We have no complaints… in fact, we prefer things done the way Miller does them. That is why we became members of his food club! It is a private contract agreement between consenting individuals to purchase his food the way he produces it, however unorthodox that may seem to the general public — it’s our choice, and thus it is absolutely fair. People who want their food produced the government way can choose to do business with other farms, like Mark’s. That is also fair. I guarantee you there is no misunderstanding between Miller and his food club members.

  • Emma G.

    The U.S. federal government should give up on its war on interstate sales of raw milk and admit that they have lost. These are four example of why: – From the WAPF website and their own websites, four private buying clubs out of possibly many which are openly flouting the law.

    Farm A: Distributes to AL, AZ, CA, CO, FL, GA, MA, NC, NJ, NY, PA
    Farm B: Distributes to CT, DE, MA, NJ, NY, RI
    Farm C: Distributes to AL, CT, FL, GA, MD, NJ, NY, OH, RI, VA, WV
    Farm D: Distributes to DC, DE, MD, PA

    Members of these clubs need to band together and lobby the Federal government to remove the ban on interstate trade, because it is obviously a failed policy. Present them with a policy alternative – i.e. national standards for raw milk production. It’s time for a change.

  • Dear fellow bloggers…..just got home from five days in San Diego at the 115 annual NFU conference. For the fifth year I was honored to be an elected delegate to represent CA farmers at the annual convention where farm policy was debated and shaped. What a great event. Our very own Charlotte Smith presented at the NFU womens conference all about her Three Cow Marketing and sales of raw milk….wow!!! Raw milk being openly discussed !!! She did great

    I was invited to present as well during the NFU conference and shared a 2 hour presentation time period with a USDA phd expert on soil biology. Our presentation was called ” from soil to body”. We described how the soil and the gut were so similar and also….a whole lot about raw milk and immunity. The comparisons between soils, roots, bacteria etc….and intestinal villi and intestinal food content were shockingly parallel. Making good friends with USDA PHDs is always an honor and a very good thing.

    One look back over the last six years told me that huge progress had been made on a whole range of subjects. Not the least being the broad acceptance of organics, raw milk and other revolutionary subjects. At the CA reception party put on by the CA farmers union, more than 100 OPDC raw milk “Grab & Goes” were served. They were gone quick! Seeing farmers from all across America drinking raw milk was powerful.

    Yes..things are changing. Lots of great policy was argued and adopted. National dairy policy, farmer friendly immigration policy, trade policy, organic policy etc….great stuff…. all debated and became policy.

    I invite all of you to become actively engaged in your states NFU chapters. It is a great way to show up, stand up and speak up to make darn well,sure that your voice makes a difference for this world.

    • Ken Conrad Ken Conrad

      I’m curious Mark, what percentage of those policies adopted by the NFU are taken seriously and actually implemented at the government level? Does the NFU truly have leg to stand on when it comes to lobbying power/influence of government as compared to conglomerates such Monsanto, Tyson, Cargill, Saputo just to name a few?

    • Gordon S Watson

      good advice, Mister McAffee = …show up, stand up and speak up to make darn well,sure that your voice makes a difference for this world” … exactly what White Americans did on election day last year, en mass.

      your contributions as to the NFU convention are helpful. Your signature sign-off line = “The dude is a greedy little Hitler.” is becoming the mantra of your political stupidity … the turd floating in the punchbowl

  • I believe that knowledge and grounded facts are essential to creation of sound policy. NIH research in the human genome project comes as close to grounded facts as anything studied recently that I know of. I will not sit idly by to wait for god or anyone else to make our world a better place. To passively wait for others or god to help is unjust and does not help ourselves, our kids, our earth or god. We are gods workers….we need to get our asses to work and do the work. That includes trying our best to understand and protect what he in his incomprehensible genius has created. That means genomics and far deeper science as best we can discover and uncover it to help mankind and our earth.

    If we were to sit idly by and let fate run our lives….we would be enslaved by all sorts of things. Lets not go there. We have the power to set our future fate by the leadership, hard work and deeds performed today. By un funding the NIH we are “burning the books” for our future and further delaying mankind in the search for the cure, or prevention or understanding of cancer and the like.

    The dude is a greedy little Hitler.

    • Ken Conrad Ken Conrad

      The NIH policy advocating the injection of every man woman and child with degenerative toxins via vaccines complements their current cut, poison, burn protocol for treating cancer. The NIH is not in the least interested in a cure for cancer and as far as I am concerned taking away their funds would be a step in the right direction.

      • blesse'd are the cheese makers

        I agree, Ken. The NIH has zero interest in curing cancer. On top of that, Mr. McAfee, a former paramedic, does not have the education, training and/or other background credentials to advance a valid comment regarding the “human genome project.”

        But . . . that will apparently not stop him, as he has no credibility regarding his comments on politics either. By the way, I sincerely hope that the NIH is defunded into oblivion — along with the USDA, the FDA, the EPA, the TSA, and the Department of Education, just to name a few.

        Finally, I have serious doubts that he has given himself to any serious study of the Third Reich, the rise and fall of Nazi Germany, or of Adolf Hitler. When a leftist snowflake calls someone a “greedy little Hitler,” he merely displays his serious lack of vocabulary and ability to make a pointed argument.

        Go back to San Diego, Mark. It’s been kind of nice over here the last few days without your continual lava flow spewing of bull shit.

      • Amanda

        “The NIH policy advocating the injection of every man woman and child with degenerative toxins via vaccines complements their current cut, poison, burn protocol for treating cancer. The NIH is not in the least interested in a cure for cancer and as far as I am concerned taking away their funds would be a step in the right direction.”

        ^^^ I completely agree.

  • mark mcafee mark mcafee

    “Turds”…thanks to NIH genomics research, we now know that the lowly turd is the greatest source of immunity, nourishment & genetic power that we have as humans. With out good turds and we would all die pretty darn quick. Good turds are used as fecal transplants and save lives!!

    Proud to be a nutrient rich organic turd!! Especially one that floats around and shows up publically & constructively in politically active punch bowls.

    The scientifically advanced, rare and distinguished compliment is much appreciated Gordon.

    The dude is still a fascist racist greedy Hitler.

  • Gordon S Watson

    your own mouth proclaims your demise, Mark McAffee … having hitched your career as advocate for raw milk, to the Red Star of Revolution, you’re on your way down the toilet with the domestic enemies of the Republic when PRESIDENT Trump drains the swamp … out to that Great Sewage Lagoon where antichrist communists wind up

  • charles

    Trump is doing a good job making enemies of you guys !

    • Gordon S Watson

      Charles :

      PRESIDENT Trump has nothing to do with me disfellowshipping Mark McAffee. An important part of Christian culture is sportsmanship. From which idea we … white people that is … get the principle that there ought to be a non-violent transfer of power, when the People lose confidence in their government. The self-identified turd, and ‘hero in his own mind’, though, feels that that ethic does not prevail anymore since his poster Girl lost the election … several weeks ago he voiced his approval of masked thugs, destroying private property and intimidating a man who’d been scheduled to give a political speech. Ludicrous that he then evokes the Third Reich, when that tactic is how Hitler’s Brown Shirts took control of the streets. He condones the crimes of violent, masked criminals as a variation of ‘free speech” I don’t.

      When I met him in British Columbia, in 2007 / 2014, Mark McAffee came off as the archetypical American entrepreneur ; very good at what he was doing. He demonstrated more than average intelligence. But the way he’s carried on for the last half-year, on this forum, has changed my opinion of him. Particularly, the way Paramedic McAffee’ raised the topic of artificial abortion in the election campaign. One thing I do know fersure = You cannot be on the front-lines of the medical system, without figuring out that the child in the womb is one of your patients.

      Many times on this forum, I defended Mark McAffee against slurs on his motives by demanding of the cheap-shot artist, if they’d ever met him? So it really galls me that Mark McAffee reviles PRESIDENT Trump, ad naseum when all he’s got to work with is the cartoon image of Donald Trump, purveyed to him by the same people who peddle the Dairy Cartel lies about raw milk.

      when Mr McAffee started displaying symptoms of Trump Derangement Syndrome, it was so bizarre, I thought he was putting us on. But no : it got worse. Much worse. I put up with his relentless charge that PRESIDENT Trump is a “racist” thinking that he could be educated out of his hypocrisy with more information. See paragraph below. But now that my opinion of him is less-than -zero, I conclude that he’s just too stupid to appreciate the illogic of his delusion in the face of facts. Which is the definition of ‘bigot’

      Mark McAffee cheered-on Hilary Clinton for her pro-abortion policy. Mrs Clinton gloried in the endorsement of Planned Barrenhood, even while that outfit is provably engaged in genocide. The Birth Control League was founded by Margaret Sanger. In her Plan for Peace 1922, she called for the Negroes to be eliminated by eugenic manipulation. Officials of the 3rd Reich came to America to consult with her, about how to carry out their plans to create the Master Race. The largest abortion provider in the world, PP, is predicated on targeting a certain race for extermination. 1/4 of a century ago I used to hand out the hard evidence as to that topic. Thus, it’s readily available for anyone who cares to know the truth. It’s bad enough that people like Mr McAffee avert their eyes while children are being murdered in their own neighbourhood … but it’s insufferable for him to fold-in to this forum communist sloganeering about “racism”, while his candidate = H. Clinton = practiced it.

      In 1992, Faye Wattleton – then the head of Planned Parenthood, was speaking in Bellingham Washington. We went down to hear her. When she’d finished and they asked for questions, I challenged how she … a black woman … could conscientiously participate in an enterprise which was conceived for a racist end. Rather than answer me, they cut off the microphone. She fled the stage. Mark McAffee and his com-symps who condone eugenics cannot answer that question. The extent of his hypocrisy was = to vaunt his-self as “heroic” for being one of the custodians of American Values, meanwhile lauding those thugs in Berkley for intimidating someone whose political opinion they disagreed with. YOu can tell a lot about people by the company they keep

      Racism? Planned Barrenhood deliberately sets up its clinics in black neighbourhoods. Black women have twice the incidence of artificial abortion, as the whole population. Resulting in black women having FOUR TIMES the rate of breast cancer. Anyone who pretends to care about health … and has 2 functioning brain cells … can figure out the connection. It takes hard work to maintain the cognitive dissonance NOT to face those facts. Confer with the meta-analysis by Dr Joel Brind published in 1994, proving that availability of artificial abortion DOUBLES breast cancer in the overall population. Mr McAffee wants a few billion spent underwriting the NIH research … is he aware that it is directly related to the Human Genome Project…. the Eugenics Movement, re-branded. Racism writ large.

      Mark McAffee is the one who proposed in this forum that there’s an actual genetic difference between 2 types of people, which results in the antagonism of those groups. Which in theology is known as the Two Seedline Theory, originating in the Talmud. And appropriated by some White Supremecist groups. Myself, I don’t buy it. But – to give the Devil his due – perhaps Mark McAffee’s on to something with that concept.

  • Gordon,

    Your conclusions about my beliefs are incorrect and contorted. Personally, I disdain abortion, but I will not impose my feelings on another person or their body. A woman must have the right to control her own body. No one has the right to control another persons body. The conclusions you have drawn about me are simply not accurate. There is no further value in arguing with you on this point. You have your thoughts and I am not going to change them, I would ask the rest of this community to please ignore dear Gordon. He is irrational and is drawing conclusions that are completely unfounded.

    • blesse'd are the cheese makers

      I beg to differ with you Mr. McAfee. The primary twisted off, hysterical, out of control, irrational, “contorted” commenting on this blog has been emanating from your keyboard.

      You state that a woman has the right to control her body yet you disdain abortion? I find that a bit hypocritical from my seat in the bleachers. At what point on the continuum between conception and birth does the child’s right enter into the spectrum? You are actually taking the position that the woman has the unfettered right to abort her child anytime during the pregnancy, even up to 37th, 38th, 39th, 40th, 41st, 42nd week? The day before birth? That pretty much elevates the woman to God status, doesn’t it?

      Gordon is dead on regarding Margaret Sanger. Your head is in the sand if you don’t know about this evil woman and what she really stood for. But, hey, Gordon lays out the facts, you just blow by them and continue with your hysterics. Why let the facts get in the way of a good story-line, right?

      I’d say the conclusions Gordon has drawn about you are pretty much dead on. I have stated this before — you should stick to the raw milk and food related issues on here. Your regurgitations on most everything else are simply coming from the echo chamber of the dumbed down snowflake leftist Marxist progressive MSM globalist agenda.

      I will close with this. I know you don’t get it, and it appears that arguing with you is a total waste of time and effort, but your opinions are just that — your opinions. You have not cornered the market on truth. You can continue to attack the windmill all you want, but in the end, you only prove yourself to be another Don Quixote.

      I urge you to go find yourself a puppy to pet, a coloring book and some crayons and quietly retire to your safe space. Go milk a couple of cows and leave the big boy stuff to us.

    • Ken Conrad Ken Conrad

      Yes Mark, it is a woman’s right to have an abortion and so it is the doctors’ right to perform the deed and likewise the states right to fund it… That being said, it’s unsettling to think that abortion could actually be regarded as a constructive rational and moral way of achieving human rights.

      Margarite Sangster’s essay entitled, “My Way to Peace”, is in truth a plea to the powers that be to partake in an Arian act of war against those least capable of defending themselves, including unborn children. It is an aggressive, cowardice and reprehensible act on the part of those who claim to be civilized and on the side of justice for all.

    • Gordon S Watson

      au contraire, Mr McAffee. Your own words condemn you. ie. No one has the right to control another persons body.”

      first of all : I never brought up the A word. You did in context of your blatherings about the election. I’m NOT interested in beating it to death on this forum. I refer to my experience in that area, to explain how proceedings goe in the legal system. My conclusions are not “irrational”. I obtained them from the wording of your posts during the election. In which you made it clear that you supported the Democratic Party candidate, which entails = condoning its policy of abortion-on-demand for any and every case. “irrational”? Contrast the illogic of your support for H. Clinton as she gloried in what Planned Parenthood does, versus PRESIDENT Trump immediately de-funding it. Telling that, having folded-in to this forum, the ‘A’ word, you’re doing what the pro-aborts ALWAYS do when a guy like me starts dishing it back to them … bail out.

      Having been a Paramedic for 16 + years, you know bloody-well that a child in the womb most certainly is a human being. Thus, when the mother goes into an abortuary, and arranges for someone to cut that baby to pieces, then suck out the parts, she has assaulted the body of another Person. There goes your evasion by euphemism as to “choice”.

      how the abortion genocide, pertains to this forum, lately, is : there wouldn’t be a problem with illegal immigration, if America had not exterminated 40 million of our own children. Nature abhors a vacuum. Invaders from the 3rd world are flooding-in to our territory ONLY because there’s space for them. The really important thing to know, is, what old FDR said = ‘when something happens in politics, you can be sure it was planned’. Replacement of white people, with racial aliens, is no mere ‘un-intended consequence’

  • Dear Blessed Cheese Maker,

    What is your name and where do you live? What is your profession? it would help me and the rest of us greatly to know who you are and where you live. A nameless person is not really a person. Comments become real and mean something when they come from a person that must state and claim them personally. It is easy to hide and throw rocks…..doing it in public with your name tag on…not so much.

    Even though I disagree with Gordon on his commentary, I respect the guts he has for claiming them as his own. Words are cheap, and one becomes pretty brave when they can say things….but not actually claim them or associate those words with their own person.

  • I never ever claimed that abortion was a right until birth or late gestation….those are your words not mine.

  • John Dutcher

    Opinions are just that, not factual, just spouting emotions. While you argue politics, farmers are going to jail for producing food!! Thankfully here in Michigan, the state has recognized herd shares, milk shares, whatever you want to call them, but the state is still adamant that private buying clubs cannot exist outside the “inspection” realm. We tried doing a private buyers club and got shut down pretty quickly by Michigan Dept. of Agriculture, were given a cease and desist, so we did, did not want a fight in court and coulod not afford it anyway. There were some very disappointed folks when we told them we had to stop providing meat for them. We did finally manage to get the MDA to let us legally slaughter chickens on the farm and sell them at wholesale and retail. A limited wholesale processor’s license was obtained to do this and have been butchering poultry for over twenty years now. My wife and I live in the upper peninsula of Michigan( about 30 miles south of Sault Ste. Marie, as a crow flies) and have been farming here for almost 35 years. We gave up on the buyers club and set our sites on starting a couple farmers markets in the area which have become quite successful and has helped other farmers to increase their on farm income. We still raise chickens( meat and egg layers)along with beef cattle, sheep and goats. We also have about an acre of highbush blueberries we grow using organic methods( that’s another story about how Michigan State University told us it was impossible to grow blueberries without spraying, that was over 20 years ago) and we also grow about two acres of market gardens, it does keep us busy during the growing season. We attend two farmers markets and have a couple wholesale accounts( one a health food store and the other a culinary institute). Now there are 6 farmers markets in our area all based on our original Sault Ste. Marie farmers market. I do not milk cows, but we get our fresh milk,cream and butter from friends of ours that raise Jersey cattle. They are bit older than us and are threatening to retire, we are like please don’t, we will have to get a milk cow ourselves then :>)As far as the politics go the pendulum will always swing back the other way, people are basically just a bunch of nasty, fickle primates anyway. Just because I am smiling at you does not mean I like you, I could be picturing you on fire in my mind.

  • charles

    Thanks John, I think you got everyone back on track. I hope !!

  • William March

    Sam Girod and Amos Miller are in legal trouble because they are encouraged by anti goverment persons such as the raw milk fanatics etc.Selling raw milk across state lines ,and uninspected meat anywhere is illegal .If you do not like it change the law that’s why we have elections .Denying the law and calling officials of the government names does not solve anything ask SAM Girod .Also buying clubs and cow share programs do not work the do not protect from the law .The raw milk fanatics and anti science people should put up the money to defend Amos Miller with proper legal advice .Between 6000 and 10000 persons die each year in the USA from food born illness,as far as I know there have been no reported deaths from GMOS ,ROUNDUP ETC,THATS A FACT

    • Bora Petski

      “as far as I know there have been no reported deaths from GMOS ,ROUNDUP ETC”

      William,-that’s-because-sickness-from-drinking-raw-milk-manifests-within-hours,-while-the-effects-of- GMOS ,ROUNDUP ETC-take-months-or-years.-But-there-is-little-doubt-that-the-effects-are-real-and-severe.

  • Lynn_M Lynn_M

    How about a story about 2 deaths plus 4 others hospitalized from raw milk cheese to get us back to the real business of this blog? The culprit is reported as listeria.

  • I saw that reported earlier today:

    Questions for research, was that milk heated above 125 degrees in other words thermalized. Thermalized cheese is not truly raw and invites listeria. Soft cheeses are also a higher risk for listeria. The CDC Database has no illnesses from raw milk related to listeria. It is the heated milks that are associated with listeria.

  • Bora Petski

    Also, this:

    “there are a number of ways in which the cheese could be contaminated.

    Listeria, he said, could originate from the wood boards used to age the cheese, the water supply or improper sanitation, like walking in dirty boots. “It’s hard to pinpoint,” Mr. Yescas said.”

    But you see how quick they are to pounce on the “certainty” that it was the raw milk that caused it. Color me skeptical and doubtful.

    • Lynn_M Lynn_M

      Good point Bora. There are a number of other news sources that carry the story of deaths from this NY raw milk cheese. The ones I’ve seen all focus exclusively on the raw milk component and don’t mention the other potential sources for the listeria.

  • JHeckman

    1 Death Reported in WA Listeria Outbreak Linked to Soft Cheese

    In this case it was pasteurized but you would need to look very close to find that out by reading the product label.

    When you read further down into the article you can see that they use this as an opportunity to warn people against eating raw milk cheese when in this case it was pasteurized milk cheese that was responsible for the outbreak.

    See here in the article: “There are some steps everyone can take to reduce the risk of acquiring a Listeria infection such as avoiding unpasteurized milk or foods made from unpasteurized milk (including cheese),”

  • blesse'd are the cheese makers

    So. They’re baaaack. Maybe they never left . . .

    Here’s the headline from yesterday’s NY Times article cited by Lynn_M, above:

    “Two People Die after Eating Raw Milk Cheese Made in New York State”

    We must analyze the temporal weasel words used here. “Two people die after eating raw milk cheese . . .

    Let’s take a look at an illustration to show how misleading this headline is.

    Variable No. (a) – NY Times Sunday readership of 1.1. million

    Variable No. (b) — According to the NY State Dept. of Health, an average of 404 people die each day in NY state (2014 statistics).

    Assumptions –

    1. Assume that half of the 404 people who die each day read the Sunday NYT
    (That’s 202 people).

    2. Assume that on Sunday, half of the 202 deaths that occur to NYT readers, occurs sometime subsequent to when they read the Sunday morning edition – that’s 101.

    Based on the above, a sleaze bag “journalist” could craft a headline like this:

    “101 People Die after Reading the NY Times.”

    The preceding headline would be temporally correct. However, there would be absolutely no causal connection between the two.

    Conclusion: The Headline in the NYT article written by one Kimiko de Freytas-Tamura is “Fake News.” Frankly, Kimiko should do the honorable thing after writing such a trash piece as this and go ahead and commit hara-kiru.

    I will come back later with an analysis of the body of this article, which is equally ill written and misleading. For instance, it is “based on” what anonymous “authorities” told the author of the article — i.e., unnamed sources from the FDA, etc.

    Once again the NYT proves itself to be a purveyor of “Fake News.” They are scum.

    • David Gumpert David Gumpert

      Please, spare us the holier-than-thou moralizing and fake analysis. I was just thinking that for the first time in a while, you and I might be in agreement on something, but then you go and make a liberal conspiracy even in something like this cheese situation, which you presumably know something about. You tell Mark to take a cold shower or whatever over his political views, but you are definitely the one in serious need of treatment.

      No question, the NYTimes article is very badly done, as I have alerted people on FB and Twitter. But why is it badly done? My guess is that the reporter who did the article knows little about the subject, and wound up going to the CDC and other public health web sites where he found all kinds of “expert” opinions about the dangers of raw dairy and listeria. The NYTimes and the vast majority of other media rely on the same info, and come to the same conclusions. Do a google search and review the reports on this outbreak–how often is “raw milk” included in the headline or early in the article? Or, let me put it this way: how often is it not included?

      Get hold of yourself Cheesemaker. This problem of demonizing raw milk has been going on since before the liberals were in power, and will go on long after. In fact, you may want to check with our new political leadership, and find out when they’re going to expunge federal web sites of warnings about raw dairy. They’ve gotten rid of warnings about climate change. Surely they’ll do something about the misinformation about raw dairy, right?

      • blesse'd are the cheese makers

        Sorry, David. It had slipped my mind that the New York Times was a sacred cow for you. How dare me.

        • David Gumpert David Gumpert

          No sacred cow. Two days ago, before this even came up on the blog, I posted this on the TCP FB page: “NYTimes should know better– that listeria can sicken and kill people whether it’s in raw dairy or pasteurized dairy. Listeria contamination invariably happens in the processing/storage/packing facility, not a function of the dairy product being from raw milk. In last few years, we’ve seen people get sick and or die from listeria in ice cream, pasteurized cheese, even pasteurized milk.…/two-people-die-after-eating-raw-m…

          My point was that even though practically all the media are going after raw milk because of this outbreak, the NYTimes as one of America’s premier media outlets, should do its research. This wasn’t some kind of conspiracy or “fake news” (such a tired phrase), but rather just bad journalism. You know a professional, in any area, who doesn’t get it wrong sometimes?

  • mark mcafee mark mcafee

    The whipping boy,

    When the king became upset with his young prince….he would whip the designated whipping boy and not the prince.

    Today…the king of dairy ( FDA and processors ) whips raw milk instead of pasteurized or thermalized products. Show me the evidence that raw milk is responsible for listeria. It is counter to all CDC data and all science that listeria lives in raw milk. Listeria can be found on rare occasions in raw milk…but it thrives in nutrient rich, cold and bacteria scarce environments…like pasteurized or thermalized products. Listeria does not like competition or other bacteria.

    Dr. Heckman makes a great point when he digs deeper only to find that the villain is pasteurized dairy…when the leading headlines say avoid raw dairy.
    Talk about “post facts era and fake news!!”.

    The Facts and The Truth are so inconvenient.

  • Mark McAfee Mark McAfee

    Dr. Jean Paul Lalles research paper is out and available. He suggests a strong link between the French Paradox and consumption of raw dairy products, fermented dairy products and raw cheeses.

    It so happens that alkaline phosphatase is connected to an anti inflammatory pathway that is enhanced by consumption of raw milk and raw cheeses. Remember that the test for pasteurization is the absence of Alkaline Phosphatase!!! Pasteurization takes out one of the most essential enzymes that is critical to long life and lowered inflammation !! ( along with destruction of other good stuff )

    So drinking red wine ( resferenol ) and drinking and eating raw dairy ( alkaline phosphatase and the bacteria that makes this enzyme on the enterocytes of the gut wall ) is now theoretically central to long life and the bigger picture of answering the French Paradox.

    Don’t you love good EU base science.

  • Lynn_M Lynn_M


    There’s an abstract here by J. P. Lalles for a 2010 journal article that talks about alkaline phosphatase: https://www.ncbi. nlm. nih. gov/pubmed/20536777. Remove the internal spaces in the url.

    • Lynn_M Lynn_M

      Here’s a 2016 article by J.P. Lalles “Microbiota-host interplay at the gut epithelial level, health and nutrition”. “Collectively these data indicate that IAP (intestinal alkaline phosphatase) directly and indirectly controls gut microbiota load and balance and that this directly connects to gut inflammatory tone.”

      I didn’t see an explicit reference to raw dairy, raw cheese, or fermented products in either of the links I’ve given, so maybe it is yet another article that Mark is referring to.

  • mark mcafee mark mcafee

    Here you go….the PDF is copyrighted and costs money.
    Raw and fermented dairy products contribute to more fully understanding the French Paradox. The study reports that the French consume more than 50 pounds of cheese per year ( per capita ). Much of this is raw cheese…not to mention other dairy products that are fermented.

    The key appears to be associated to the IAP enzyme. Intestinal Alkaline Phosphatase is produced as a function of intestinal enterocytes as those cells work with specialized bacteria that make those enzymes. Raw and fermented dairy also innately contain this enzyme. The AP and IAP enzyme is responsible for decreasing inflammation in the body among other things. You can read all about this truly important discovery and piece of science.

    So far, Trumps proposed federal budget, slashes farm bill items, kills meals on wheels, cuts day care programs, builds huge war ships, cuts taxes for rich, drops millions off of any sort of medical insurance, builds walls to keep out those that work in our fields and nursing homes and hotels…it also cuts NIH research funding for all things. So look to the EU for the next few years. America is entering the dark ages…as if that was the good old days.

    He is a sociopathic liar!!! Now he even pissed off the British…again!!
    This can not go on.

    • Gordon S Watson

      quite the segue there, Mister McAffee … in one hysterical lurch = from real science, to your trite ravings. Contrary to your wishful thinking = Oh, it will go on … for 8 more years. Apparently = Paranoia strikes deep in the heartland of crypto-communists. The mature man would cool it with the wide-eyed accusations, and see what transpires as the soul of the nation is about to be tested … we live through the swine-herding phase of the Parable of the Prodigal Son.

      Does the man make the moment, or does the moment make the man? PRESIDENT Trump is the man who can handle Le Deluge being visited upon America. All the cost-cuttings you mention are mere drops in the ocean, versus the unpayable debt overhang. as for your ridiculous mention of the “the British” … find out what the Pilgrim Society is, and what they’re about for the last century. do your own homework ; It all comes back to ‘who controls the money system’ . “Til you read Tupper Saussy’s masterpiece, “Rulers of Evil” you’re just barking into the wind, about politics

    • Bora Petski


      This can go on, and will go on despite your random ramblings, which startling frankly baffle me. You really think Hillary would be a difference maker from her predessors/possesers?

      predecessor. /ˈpriːdɪˌsɛsə/ a person who precedes another, as in an office. something that precedes something else. an ancestor; forefather.

      Maybe Trump’s (notice that’s apostrophe s, as opposed to “Trumps proposed” whatever you said. Dude, get a proofreader.

  • Lynn,

    I read the entire PDF published article. In the conclusion and body of the article it specifically mentioned “RAWMILK” as a source of Alkaline Phospahatase and one of the foods that is part of the study. This makes total sense….the test for effective pasteurization is the test for destruction and inactivated Alkaline Phosphatase enzymes. The good stuff must be gone or the FDA bans it!!!!

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