Delicate Dance: Feds Seek Contempt Ruling Against Amos Miller Over Meat Records

abstract dancing couple silhouette on white background

During a federal court hearing in late June, there was soothing talk from a USDA inspector that the forced inspection being sought on Amos Miller’s Pennsylvania farm was intended to “educate him about safety.”

Federal Judge Edward Smith approved the inspection order and, surprise, it turns out the ongoing inspection was about much more than educating Miller about safety.

The U.S. Department of Justice is now seeking to charge Miller with contempt of court for failing to obey demands from the U.S. Department of Agriculture they he supply the individual purchasing records of consumers who are members of Miller’s private association.

In its motion last week to the U.S. District Court for the civil contempt-of-court ruling, the DOJ includes a statement from the USDA inspector, Paul Flanagan, that describes a delicate dance going on between the USDA and Miller over the disclosure of customer receipts.

That dance is part of a larger dance between Miller and members of his private association; those members signed agreements that state in part: “Any customer/consumer records kept by the association will be strictly protected and only released upon written request of the member.” No members are requesting that Miller release their records to the feds, to my knowledge.

The Flanagan statement indicates Miller has been trying to satisfy all parties, though not successfully thus far. According to Flanagan, during an inspection visit July 11, “I asked Mr. Miller if he could provide me with the past six months of records related to the purchase, processing, and sale of meat and poultry products, Mr. Miller stated that he could not affirmatively supply/gather those records but that they were in or on his desk if I wanted to sort through his various and sundry records myself. The desk he pointed to had stacks of documents on top of it.”

Flanagan’s statement doesn’t say whether he availed himself of Miller’s offer, though the implication is that he didn’t, because he says that, “On July 19, 2016, Investigator Russell and I returned to Miller’s Organic Farm. On our arrival, I again asked Mr. Miller for defendants’ records that are associated with the slaughter, processing, transportation, purchase, and sale of Miller’s Organic Farm’s meat and poultry products….Mr. Miller did show me and allow me to copy a spiral notebook that was labeled ‘Butcher 2015.’” That book included slaughtering information—number of animals slaughtered on various dates, and their weights—but not the key information Flanagan sought about member meat purchases.

“On that date, Mr. Miller also stated that his private membership association owns his farm’s sales records and that, based on or notwithstanding the Court’s June 30 Order, it would be an invasion of his association’s privacy for him to produce the records. I replied that Mr. Miller would be in violation of the Court’s order if he did not produce the records.”

Flanagan proceeds to describe his efforts at a compromise that he argues would protect members’ identities while providing the USDA with the data it seeks, which is confirmation that Miller is selling meat not inspected by the USDA, and doing it across state lines. He says that “on July 28, I asked Mr. Miller to show me an invoice for one of his customers, he did so, but he folded the invoice so that I could not see the member-customer’s name and address. He explained that he was not showing me such information because it is ‘private’ and the property of the association members. I responded that FSIS (the Food Safety Inspection Service that is part of USDA) has no interest in a customer’s name and was not asking for any member’s personal information.”

Flanagan says that when he returned the next day, July 29, “I asked Mr. Miller to produce, for any three-month period between January 2016 and June 2016, all of his farm’s invoices related to the sale of meat and poultry products…..I explained that FSIS needed the invoices to include, without redaction: (1) the invoice date; (2) the purchaser’s city; (3) the purchaser’s state; (4) the descriptions of the meat  and poultry products sold; and (5) the weights of the meat and poultry products sold. But, as I told Mr. Miller, because of his stated concerns about his member-customers’ privacy, he could redact his member-customers’ names and street addresses. Mr. Miller declined my offer to assist him with redacting such name and street address information….On August 8, 2016, Mr. Miller called me to state that he is unwilling to produce any Miller’s Organic Farm sales records/invoices that include a member-customer’s name, address city, or state” (emphasis included by Flanagan).

A civil contempt ruling could threaten Miller with sizable fines should he fail to comply with the USDA records demand. No court date has yet been set for the court hearing on the records demand, but based on the fact that it relates to an existing order, chances are the court will act quickly, within days or weeks. What also isn’t clear is if Miller will be dancing into the court room.

71 comments to Delicate Dance: Feds Seek Contempt Ruling Against Amos Miller Over Meat Records

  • Bless\'ed are the Cheese Makers

    What a double standard our government lives by!! Hillary gets by literally with murder, she lies to Congress, she lies to the public, she deletes emails, she has dozens of mysterious deaths in her wake, and the DOJ, Congress, the lamestream media, and the power elite won’t touch her. On the other hand, you take a small Amish farmer who is a willing seller who sells product to a willing buyer via a contractual relationship therewith, and the government is pulling out all the stops to bring him down. The USDA, the FDA, the TSA, the Dept. of Education, and a myriad of other worthless leeching useless bureaucrats need to be abolished and put these government idiots who work for them back out into the private sector where they wouldn’t even qualify for a job as a Wal-Mart greeter. By the way, they can take these liberal federal judges who get appointed “for life” with them. What a useless waste of taxpayer money. When are we going to march on Washington DC with torches and pitchforks demanding that this crap come to an end?

    • lis

      The ABC agencies and their liayers have NO control in common law.

    • David Gumpert David Gumpert

      Bless, well stated. I’ll just take issue on the “liberal federal judges”–they are appointed for life (in federal courts) because that is what the U.S. Constitution specifically requires. The rationale behind that requirement was that judges should be be shielded from the political emotions of the day, so as to be as objective as possible. Now, we can disagree with the founders’ rationale or with how it has worked out, but that is the law of the land, until or if it is changed via a constitutional amendment.

      • bless\'ed are the cheesemakers

        Mr. Gumpert:

        I would like to comment on your point that federal judges are “appointed for life.” Art. III, Sect. 1, of the US Constitution clearly states that they (federal judges) “shall hold their Offices during good Behaviour . . . ” This is a different proposition than “for life.” For one thing, it was not foreseen in the mid 1700’s that a person would live much past 40. So . . . the proposition that they sit on the bench “for good behavior” or “for life” was a fair bet that this would not be an extremely long period of time. I do not believe that our forefathers envisioned judges living to be well into their 80’s and in addition to that, becoming political activists to advance an agenda. Whatever the case, I agree that the “law of the land” on this issue could certainly be changed via a constitutional amendment. On the other hand, when these federal judges become blatantly activist, as some of the “Men in Black” on the Supreme Court have done time and time again, impeachment and ousting from office is certainly a remedy for BAD BEHAVIOR. I would posit that “Bad Behavior” would include going outside the Constitution to summarily enforce unconstitutional regulations passed by unelected bureaucrats. In addition, I would argue that infringing on the individual’s right to contract, which, in my opinion is a constitutionally protected “property right” is also “Bad Behavior.” Every time these “liberal” leftist judges rubber stamp these alphabet soup agencies’ unconstitutional and unchecked rules, these federal judges are committing unconstitutional acts making them unfit for the bench, with or without a Constitutional amendment. On the other hand, there are not enough constitutionalists left in Congress with the balls to do anything like this and there you go. The fox guarding the hen house.

        • Bob

          I would have to disagree that this is an issue of “liberal leftist judges”. Both sides of the aisle have judges who rule based upon their own biases. Look no further than the late Justice Scalia who often made rulings based on his own conservative catholic biases for an example of this. Conservative right-wing or liberal leftist, they both act more out of internal biases or party loyalties than out of true justice.

  • irene

    Hold on there Tonto, a riot would be an excuse for martial law restrictions. We need to prove the murders in a public widely accepted way. We need to prove the legislative fraud, the bribery, the active manipulation of media and communications. We need to stop the murders and the false flags. The wizard behind the curtain must be exposed.

  • Leon Moyer

    Isn’t civil contempt only over when a person comes into compliance with the court order?? If so, the judge may not use monetary fines but place him in jail until he decides to comply. The courts also do this when a person refuses to testify as a witness if the court feels the testimony is critical to the case, as the information about shipping meat across state lines is critical to this case.

  • lis

    The only lawful question is, who’s been harmed or injured? If not, there’s no crime. Learn the difference between legal and lawful. If not, we remain slaves to the corrupt fake court system. Common law is the only law for man. The current corrupt statutory court is for fictions, strawman.

    Here’s the remedy. Get involved and end slavery for all:

    • Andrew Richard Teichner

      Well Said.

    • Gordon Watson

      well, “lis” ? … any day you come up with a report of a real person, who succeeded at anything more important than a parking ticket, using the “straw man” crap~0LA, I’m MOST interested. give us a case file # ; place where the parties convened for the hearing ; date ; ; names of the parties and their contacts so I can verify … you know = the simple basics that a good journalist provides. As Sgt. Friday used to put it on Dragnet ; “just the facts, ma’am”. Otherwise you’re just another addle-pated tyro, sucking energy of good people away from the Big Issue … a menace to those of us who are in this for the long haul. >>>> For your edification, contact Russell A . Porisky in the Canadian Federal penitentiary system, via his wife, Elaine Gould in Chilliwack BC. Mr Porisky is now serving the remainder of his 4 !/2 year sentence for tax evasion / conspiring to commit an indictable offence etc.. On July 21, I was in the courtroom in Vancouver where he appeared by CCtv from prison, before Madame Justice Gropper … grovelling for legal aid in order to appeal the verdict of the jury which had convicted him, for the second time. >>>> I met Russ in 2001, when he was just starting out, pitching that “straw man / natural Person ” word majic. Just as I predicted, when RevScam = Canada Revenue Agency eventually lowered the boom on him, 800 little tax-serfs who’d availed demselves of his teachings in the Paradigm School of Prophetic Tax Law Interpretation, wound up under a mountain of grief ; re-assessed for million$. In the first round of Michael Schmidt’s ordeal, when a guy tried that same stunt = i.e. “that law does pertain to me” = the JP put him in his place. To put it as simply as I can [ with my limited command of the English language ] = not only is that “in the truth” lingo, garbage, it’s dangerous garbage.

  • Brian DuBridge

    If they really cared about the safety of the people buying the products it wouldn’t matter if they were sold across state lines. The witch hunt for cross state sales demonstrates unquestionably that they are only trying to destroy the seller for their own satisfaction. Tar and feathering of the field agents and their bosses, all involved in this action, and regular application in all like circumstances of government intervention, would solve the problem. We need to bring back the old ways of regulation by the people. The court game is the governments game.

  • I am a member… FOR YEARS… and I have never purchased animal products from Amos Miller because our club OWNS them…. invoices are for service fees to process and deliver what I already OWN…. Grrrrrr……

    • Gordon Watson

      correct you are : a couple of children drank raw milk, got an upset stomach and one had diarrhoea. They’ll get over it, and be immune from now. Meanwhile = the same day, 12 million people in America, drank a portion of raw milk and are not only perfectly OK, but healthier, too. Making the point every time, how REAL MILK – properly produced and handled – is far and away one of the safest of all foodstuffs

      • Mary McGonigle-Martin

        Gordon, there are no details in the media about how I’ll these two young children are. Also, you do not build immunities against E.coli O157H7. We asked this question to the team of doctors treating Chris.

        • Gordon Watson

          correct-a-mundo, again…. no details of the classic urban myth = ” child lying ill in hospital after drinking raw milk” >>> What’s despicable is : how the lame-stream media is so compliant as a propaganda outfall for the Dairy Cartel propaganda. >>> when we DO get details about illness purported to have been induced from consuming raw milk, and ‘run them to earth’, more often than not … it’s exposed as deliberate fearmongering. Hard evidence compiled by the Campaign for REAL MILK proves that risk of harm from raw milk – properly produced and handled – is thousands of times less than from any other foodstuff in commerce. Before November 8th, we’ll see a photo-op of Mr Trump on the steps of the Museum of Caucasian Culture, raising a glass of REAL MILK, saluting this “heritage food” of the white race = “dogwhistle politics” by a master of that Art

          • Mary McGonigle-Martin

            Classic urban myth. Really? You are the poster boy as to what is wrong with the raw milk movement. It is a complete mystery to me as to why David has allowed you access to posting on this blog.

          • Gordon S Watson

            I am on this forum at the pleasure of Mister Gumpert = he suffers me to post because his dedication to genuine freedom of expression is sincere, and I do occasionally have something directly on -point the Campaign for REAL MILK> People like vouz, give lipservice to freedom of speech, but get ornery when confronted with some one / some fact which threatens their self-image. But “it’s all good”. The Apostle Paul had his thorn in the flesh … apparently, you’re here to fulfill that role for us.

          • Mary McGonigle-Martin

            I like that. A thorn in the raw milk movement. Read about pathogenic Ecoli and what it can do to a child when it finds its way into raw milk. That is this thorns message.

          • Gordon S Watson

            there is room for constructive criticism in every institution. Your problem = ma’am = is that you’re locked-in to a narrative in which emotion overruled everything. You have yet to acknowledge that the incidence of major harm from raw milk – properly produced and handled – is thousands of times less than other foodstuffs. Literally every day, people fall ill from bad food …. today, it’s bagged salad. But I don’t see you going on about shutting down producers of all the produce dept.s in retail stores. The amount of time and effort you’ve spent railing against the best food in the world, is ridiculously out of proportion to the reality of what’s going on in the real world. …. as opposed to the nightmare film-loop running in the back of your mind, since your son almost died. As Ann Landers used to put it “you need professional help”

          • Mary McGonigle-Martin

            Thank you Gordon, 9 years ago some one told me I needed professional help and I took it to heart and hired the best counselor in the nation. His name is Bill Marler. I am truly indebted to you insensitive raw milk extremists for all your harassment. Best decision I ever made for my son. Just keep insulting me Gordon. It just fuels me.

          • Gordon Watson

            old Marshal McLuhan taught me : “information overload brings pattern recognition” … Scotland is the stage for the latest episode of Dairy cartel demon-ization of raw milk, in which – the image of the ‘child who died’ is trotted-out. Of course we can never chase down the facts about that appeal to sentiment. Dunsyre Blue cheese from raw milk has the hard evidence to prove a priori that it isn’t culpable, but that doesn’t stop the authorities from blaming them. Meanwhile 2 people out of 161, died after being sickened by bagged salad greens. Is that outlawed? ! Logic be damn’d.

          • Mary McGonigle-Martin

            Bagged greens are high risk for contamination with E.coli. It is like the risk for hamburger. One small part is contaminated and then it is mixed with a larger batch and now the whole thing is contaminated. Both foods are consumed by most people, so when there is an outbreak the numbers are large. The reason raw milk is banned is because infants and children consume it the most and infants and children are at the greatest risk for illness because of their underdeveloped immune systems. It is not rocket science Gordon to figure out the why. Cow shit and children do not mix well.

          • Gordon Watson

            contrary to your befuddled post : raw milk is not “banned” in 41 of the 50 states in the US of A. Since I started paying attention to this issue ( nigh-on 1999 ) the situation went from most of them banning raw milk, to reversing what was on the law books then. Are all those thousands of legislators idiots? Or is it the case that they were educated by the Weston A Price Institute with the facts needed to make a good decision? >>>> Your accumulated postings on this website, are a textbook definition of “bigot” = someone who maintains her opinion in the face of overwhelming evidence that it’s illogical. >>> The brilliant work of Mark McAffee and his associates, has given us understanding of why REAL MILK improves the health of those who drink it : because it is the most powerful, agency we know of for cultivating immunity, with virtually no adverse effects. The campaign to demonize it – is moved by entities which profit from Dis-ease. Any day you want to pit the health benefits of REAL MILK, against compulsory vaccination, you’ll get your eyes opened by the proven harms of the poisoned needle. Monkey pus mixed with cells from babies killed in abortions, shouldn’t mix, either. But in the world of “Medical science”, they do, for immense profits, at the expense of profoundly wounded children >>>>> As Deeee-Pak Chopra puts it ….. “let it goooooo Mary McG-Martin” = your obsession with BS, that is

          • Ken Conrad Ken Conrad

            Good organic cow shit Mary has never dung me or my children and grand children any harm.

            As well, the east Indians seem to realize something about Cow shit and children that you don’t. They have a ritual whereby children are dunked and encouraged to run and role around in cow shit. Hindus believe that cow urine and dung have medicinal properties and the ancient Indian medical science known as the Ayurveda appears to back that up.

            Based on your belief you might want to steer clear of Hindu children… and livestock farmer’s children.

          • MAGA

            “Cow shit and children do not mix well.”

            You are anti-science and anti-happy childhood.

    • Ken Conrad Ken Conrad

      This news release you referenced uses the usual, repetitive rhetoric, in order to arouse fear and superstition. It is hardly worth the paper it’s printed on. You and the germaphobe fearing public in general, aught to take the time to read Joel Salatin’s well thought out book, “The Marvelous Pigness of Pigs”. In the book he states, “I would suggest that a culture that views its pigs, (animals and microbes) as just mechanical objects to be reprogrammed and manipulated will view its citizens the same way, and ultimately God the same way”. Emphasis in brackets is mine.

      • Mary McGonigle-Martin

        So Ken, to clarify, it does not bother you that young children become ill from raw milk?

        • Andrew Richard Teichner

          So Mary, to clarify it does not bother you that young children become ill because they ate wheat doused with Roundup?

        • Ken Conrad Ken Conrad

          Yes Mary, it does bother me when children become ill, for whatever the reason. As to whether raw milk is solely responsible for a child’s illness, is open to interpretation and belief. There are many factors involved that lend to a child becoming ill including the progression of said illness. Singling raw milk out as the primary cause of illness and resulting complications is based on an ambiguous and narrow train of thought that lacks overall credibility.

          I have been drinking raw milk and feeding it to my children, grandchildren, friends, relatives and neighbors for close to 60 years now, with no ill effect. So from my perspective it is difficult for me to wrap my around this notion that raw milk is as dangerous as some would have us believe.

          • Mary McGonigle-Martin

            Ken, I have to disagree with your first paragraph, but can accept your perspective based on what you wrote in the 2nd paragraph.

          • Ken Conrad Ken Conrad

            Hmmm… then can it be said that food safety is in the eye of the beholder? If so, then our freedom to choose aught to rank first and foremost when deciding to consume raw milk and feed it to our children! Right?

            Based on personal experience I can truly identify with this observation made by Joel Salatin, “At sustainable agriculture conferences, most of the workshops are positive how-tos. I almost never hear much discussion about sickness and disease. The overriding desire is how to work with nature as a benevolent friend. This is completely opposite of the theme at industrial agriculture conferences—the kind put on by mainstream agribusiness. Nearly all the discussions center around diseases and sicknesses. The overriding desire is how to beat nature, how to win, as if nature is the enemy that must be subjugated like a military conquest.” Indeed, and no more is this evident then in the agricultural universities and farm publications/magazines and newsletters that rely on funding from chemical and drug companies such as Monsanto, Dupont, DowAgro, Bayer, Pfizer, GlaxoSmithKline, Merk. Novartis, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. The impression given is that these chemicals and drugs are in essence, not harmful and that there use is absolutely necessary if we wish to feed the world. Both of these views are based on a mechanistic approach to food production and are absolutely untrue.

            There is little room for compromise here Mary; you either work with nature as a benevolent friend or you attempt to subjugate her.

          • Andrew Richard Teichner

            Mary: This discussion is worthless, Your mission (self interest) is to discredit people and their opinions. The periodic chart is my guide and you are not. Your belief that corporations like Monsanto and the like are in this for the greater good and do no harm is more important than the bottom line is based on? Fact is killing life that has not been immunized against a broad spectrum poison like glyphosate is irrational and deadly to god given life and does not sync with the periodic chart…..or maybe you believe the periodic chart is wrong. Enough said, I will leave the last words for you and I will not waste valuable energy to respond. Community brings peace.

    • milk mama

      “Raw milk has been known to be a source of E. coli.”

      Yes, and pasteurized milk has been known to be a source of Listeria. And….?

  • Mark Mcafee Mark Mcafee

    According to the latest data coming from CDFA and others, CA lost 53 dairies in the first 5 months of 2016. CA only has about 1300 dairies. For 2016 that accounts for a projected loss of about 120 dairies. This will be the largest loss of dairies in a single year in the history of CA dairies.

    Why? Pasteurization is the reason. These dairies are subject to governemnt price setting and have no way to create value for hard work. That price sits far below cost of production. The other reason is greed. If all of the dairies could agree to:

    1. Cut off production for three days to take back control of their own milk flows ( supply control )
    2. Set their own price and force processors to take that price….this tragedy would end.

    Dairymen instead refuse to work together.

    All the while, raw milk is doing just fine. This is so sad and so totally avoidable. The conventional dairies all see each other as each others enemies to be eliminated. It is a canabalistic model, that ultimately consumes itself as they prey upon each other and they all die instead.

    We are watching a massive change occur right before our very eyes. The “dairy case” has become the “alternative to dairy case”.

    There isn’t an alternative an to raw milk… is the singular food that for tens of thousands of years nourished mankind and provided a competitive advantage for survival.

    Society is now paying the high cost in health and immune depression.

    • Bill Murphy

      Mark, for these 53 lost dairies, could this decline actually be due to mergers and acquisitions? Is any agency tracking the gross quantity of fluid milk heading to the processors? Has that declined at all?

    • David Gumpert David Gumpert

      I think it’s been so long since most dairy farmers have behaved like businesspeople that it’s way too late for them to act forcefully, and in their own business interests. No, they have the worst of all worlds. Kind of like communism in the old joke about cows and government:

      You have two cows. The government takes one and give one to your neighbor.

      You have two cows. The government takes them both and promises you milk but you starve.

      You have two cows. The government takes them and sells you the milk.

      You have two cows. You sell one and buy a bull.

      It’s definitely not capitalism.

    • Ken Conrad Ken Conrad

      “Dairymen instead refuse to work together.”

      Indeed Mark, and this was exactly the situation that dairy farmers in Ontario (and Canada) were faced with in the late 1950’s and sixties when the provincial and federal governments decided to step in an legislate a milk marketing board system that gave dairy farmers the power to limit supply via quota and negotiate with processors, government and consumer representatives, price increases based on a cost of production formula.

      Initially, it was a real boost for dairy farmers in the province…at least for the first 20 years. After that it all went to hell in a hen basket, thanks to government sponsored cheap food policies.

      As I previously stated, “The few remaining dairy farmers that are left in Canada are in debt up to their eyebrows. From 1971 to 2011, under the reign of quota managed marketing boards the number of dairy farms in Canada has dropped by 91 percent. In my area where we used to have over 40 producers in the early 1970’s, there are now less then a handful left”. The trend continues to this day.
      The problem…policies that were initially set up at the time in order to protect localized small family dairy farms were allowed to fall by the wayside and the claimed reason for allowing this to happen was to improve overall industry efficiency in order to keep the cost of production down. In other words national and international cheap food policies were the motivating factor.

      Cheap food policies are the bane of the agricultural industry and likewise of healthy and wholesome food.

  • Mark Mcafee Mark Mcafee

    Bill, in the past you would be right about mergers. In the last three years we have seen a big decline in numbers of cows and a significant decline in total milk volumes.

  • Mark Mcafee Mark Mcafee

    It finally happened. Scott on the Kardashians is featured on an episode trying to convince his girlfriend Kourtney Kardashian that her dairy allergies are not from real dairy and the refrig has OPDC raw milk on the shelf!!!

    We will see where this takes us. Sorry to say that the trend setters for the next generations reside in Hollywood or Malibu and dominate the social networks. With opdc raw milk being set as an example of real milk….that does not cause all those allergies. There is something there.

    Sorry I don’t have a link. It was a twitter video link feed. But dairy allergy has hit the big time and those that know better that drink OPDC from hundreds of LA area stores are getting this story out. Raw milk is not related to dairy allergy and fact it raw milk makes allergies get better!!!

    This is the kind of exposure and open dialogue that moves raw milk mountains.

  • Lynn_M Lynn_M

    Fresh milk products price-fixing class action lawsuit. Fill out the form at http: //www. boughtmilk. com/ to submit your claim. Bloomberg’s story about the case is at
    http: //www. bloomberg. com/news/articles/2016-09-08/cow-killing-and-price-fixing-in-your-supermarket-dairy-aisle. The case is about cooperatives killing off their cows to raise dairy prices. It is not about the prices of raw milk sold directly to consumers.

    • Bill Murphy

      If it’s cooked, it’s not fresh.

      • Lynn_M Lynn_M

        Bill, I totally agree with you. But “fresh milk products” is the term used at the official website for the Fresh Milk Products Price-Fixing Class Action Lawsuit. I suppose we should blame the lawyers for their misappropriation of the word “fresh”. It did hook me into reading the story though.

    • Ken Conrad Ken Conrad

      Getting rid of dairy cows in order to manage supply is, and has always has been, a fact of life for dairy farmers. Usually it is the mediocre cattle that are sent off for slaughter; better that that then getting paid a pittance and/or having to dump ones milk down the drain, in ditches or on the field because the processor refuses to accept it.

      In Canada where supply is management via a quota system for the last 50 some odd years, farmers still find themselves overproducing and having to get rid of cows either via slaughter.

      In the United States I can remember on at least one occasion when the government instituted a program to pay its dairy farmers a fixed amount to cull dairy cows from their herds in order to limit production. Sure enough farmers made the sensible decision to take advantage of this subsidy in order to get rid of their less productive cows. It was a win win situation for them, and after all was said and done, the program did little to resolve the surplus of milk. Within a couple of years they were right back in the same boat.

  • Mark Mcafee Mark Mcafee

    A huge congrats to Michael. Relief of some of this pressure is well deserved. I wish the judge had sanctioned the prosecutor or the crown for abuse of Michaels rights.

  • mark mcafee mark mcafee


    I must totally disagree with your assessment of Hillary.

    The power of a lie….

    It is so true that a lie told enough times becomes a real truth to some people. Donald Trump has shown the naivety of minority of American citizens through his psycho babble, bullying, treasonous, narcissism and violent socio pathic behavior, I would go so far as to say also his use of a brain washing technique that has literally mesmerized and hypmotized a part of a nation.

    Hillary has dedicated herself to good things all of her life including public service, children’s causes and human rights and moral justice. The idea that she is a liar, a murderer or any of other of the sociopathic descriptions given by Trump is an embarrassment to the truth and reality.

    Trump is himself a fascist liar and a Hitler-ish night mare. The idea that an American person would do anything, cheat any one, declare bankruptcy 4 times just not pay hard working contractors ( and brag and gloat that this was a brilliant use of the justice system!! ) , be a racist to employees, express disgust of women, make fun of the physically challenges and latino judges…just to become rich ( or president )at all cost is beyond my moral values and principles.

    America is supposed to be a shining example of freedom, opportunity and justice for all. That is what we try to do, what we fight for and that is what we stand for, even though this is a goal we sometimes struggle to achieve. Trump is the polar opposite of this core group of ethics and morals. Hate, violence, cheating, stealing, lying….these are the secrets of his sauce and his artificial wealth.

    Those that follow his fourth Reich march have identified themselves as fooled by a Trumped up Gypsy circus master….

    I pray for clarity and judgment for all. I refuse to accept that we will elect a best friend of Putin to run America. This is why he refuses to release his taxes. He has taken plenty of money from Russia…guaranteed. That’s how influence is bought in Putin’s Russia….and make no mistake about it…Putin is Trumps mentor. Putin is the example of how Trump intends to act and be strong and how he plans on fixing America all by himself…it is called a dictatorship. Trump has had plenty of practice….remember if you do not like Trump or he does not like you…Your Fired!! Including all of our Top Generals. He wants to select his own. ‘

    Talk about all the signs of Hitler and dictatorship!!!!

    My dear friends….please, please drink some good raw milk and wake the hell up!!! We are far better than the American-Putin. I am actually shocked that Trump has not been arrested by his own secret service for threats to the president, threats to kill Hillary and treason.

    Remember this……I am a pro second Amendment democrat that is deeply humanitarian.

    Who we elect is a direct reflection of who we are as Americans. World leaders and deeply scared by the emergence of Trump….they are feeling like America has lost its moral compass and is de evolving into a immoral and un-ethical abyss.

    We have friend all around the world and they are holding their breaths that wake up in time to save ourselves and them as well. What we do effects everyone on earth.

    The idea that America’s Trump is somehow not doing well is the worst lie of all. Our economy has never been better, consumer confidence is higher than ever…and unemployment is exceptionally low, the dollar is stronger than ever!!!

    Take a quick look back to the Bush days….he is the one who lied to America and got us into Iraq chasing lies ( Weapons of Mass Destruction that did not exist ) he is the one that bombed Iraq and killed presumably uncounted hundreds of thousands of innocent people.

    Republicans….look hard at yourselves. We love you as a part of the American fabric…but it is some of you that is tearing us apart by following a wildly sociopathic crazy man. Do not let his lies become your truth.

    • Bora Petski

      “Our economy has never been better, consumer confidence is higher than ever…and unemployment is exceptionally low”

      Hey Mark, you might want to take a look at this:

    • David Gumpert David Gumpert

      Mark, I think the real reasons Trump refuses to release his tax returns is that they show two things he desperately wants to avoid disclosing: 1. That he hasn’t been nearly as successful financially as he makes himself out to be; and 2. That he gives very little to charity, and thus is truly a hard-hearted blow-hard. That isn’t to say he hasn’t taken money from the Russian mafia, just that that probably is very well hidden, certainly not on his income tax returns.
      Unfortunately, the world-wide trend is to trust in Putin-like dictators. That trend is coming to the U.S.–even if Trump doesn’t win this one, I fear another Trump will along before long. It’s amazing because dictators rarely work out well, but lots of people still fall for the Big Lie.

    • MAGA

      We shouldn’t elect Trump because you just know he’s taken money from Russia? As opposed to Hillary who DID take money from Russia?

      We shouldn’t elect Trump because Bush got us into bad wars that Trump opposed and Hillary supported?

      I feel sorry for the Democrats; this is their Bob Dole moment. Well, if Dole was a corrupt liar who took bribes from foreign governments and had a trail of dead bodies following his rise to power.

      Anyone who would claim that Hillary isn’t a corrupt liar who should be in jail over her mishandling of classified material completely lacks any credibility. She is beyond defense.

      As to the dead bodies part, its entirely circumstantial. Yet no other politician has been so dogged by such a large number of suspicious murders. This goes way way back, long before Trump came on the scene.

  • mark mcafee mark mcafee


    I did not say we are perfect….far from it. We have work to do. But the economic measures give the bigger picture of progress. The American dollar is very strong, food is cheap, gas is very cheap…unemployment is at record lows.

    About the homeless. As a paramedic, I cared for the homeless every single day and night….especially at 2 AM in the morning and even later. Every one of them has a story and each and every one of them that I touched was a real human.

    Statistically, they are veterans, the addicted, the brain damaged, the mentally ill, the under educated, the drop outs, the socially excluded, the under-skilled. Right now….America is in a deficit of skilled workers. Yet….the homeless could not fill those jobs, because of their social skills etc. Some would not take or keep take a job even if it was provided.

    There is a thing called structural unemployment. We are at that point in America today. America is a freedom loving capitalistic country. That means winners and losers. In America…you have to be driven, smart and damn hard working or you will not be on the upside of the scale. That’s the way America is engineered. However, you will find in most socialist countries….the safety net is so strong that it holds back the aggressive and spreads the wealth by force of good. That is “both good and also inhibiting” of creativity and individual advancement. The best are really frustrated….and they come to America when they can.

    If some one has a better idea for how America can engage and employ the homeless….I am all ears. I have known so many. They ride the revolving doors at the county hospital. They were out of the hospital and back down the street before my paramedic unit could get our sheets changed on the gurney. Then….I would see them again the next night with what ever new problem they had.

    It is called structural unemployment. America needs to design a place for these citizens. A place where they can do something, eat something, sleep on something and feel somehow important and relevant.

    • Alan G.

      Oh Mark, we have heard all this cheerleading and hopeful hyping of our broken economy for a decade — always there may be “some progress” and “recovery right around the corner”. It’s all bunk. The American economy remains, after nearly a decade, under intense stimulus in the form of near-zero interest rates. The Federal Reserve understands interest rate (or lack thereof) is the only thing holding up the economy and the stock market. Yellin is convinced to restore interest rates by even one quarter of one percent will tank the markets and destroy our American economy once and for all. Even the media has a sense of this — you will notice they never speak of restoring interest rates but always ominously refer to raising rates, as if zero or below is the normal setpoint for interest rates in America. Mark, you can be certain the economy is sitting up and taking nourishment when interest rates are restored to, say, 3 to 3 1/2 percent. Until then stick to hyping RAWMI.

      • David Gumpert David Gumpert

        Alan G., we have a tendency in this country to look at things like the economy, in isolation. Compared to earlier post-WWII periods, American economic performance isn’t that great. But compared to much of the rest of the world today, the U.S. economy is going great guns. The world economy happens to be going through a period of massive deflation–too many goods being produced by even less developed countries to improve their own economies–which forces interest rates lower. It’s difficult to identify too many countries with economic performance, in terms of employment and innovation, better than the U.S. right now.

        • Gordon Watson

          “… the US economy is going great guns …” you say? now there’s an apt turn of phrase for what we used call “war-mongering”. In the early 1960s, after being in Japan/ Korea for the UN “peacekeeping action”, my old man told me “the US has no business being the world’s policeman”. Well do I remember the summer of 1969, when America passed the tipping-point from being the world’s creditor, to being the world’s debtor. Us baby-boomers assumed we were entitled to a life of luxurious idleness. ‘Children calling to each other on the playground’, we let ourselves be fitted for debt bondage ; those IOUs to foreigners are coming due as of Oct 1 2016, as the monetary unit of Red China is acknowledged as equal in status with the US $. From – say, the era of Vietnam – we just ‘put it all on the tab’. After 2008, we went through what David Stockman calls “the crackup boom”. Such ‘prosperity’ was brought about by race traitors in high places, hypothecating an unspeakable amount of “new money”. As that imaginary ‘money’ resolves to its actual value of zero, the situation is : half of American households, are one paycheque away from the welfare line. William Gibson says : ” the depression is already here. It just isn’t evenly distributed”. I say = the Endless Summer is over … Get ready to take care of yourself”

          • bora petski

            Written in 98, feel free to delete if inappropriate David:

            Interest Rates Tumble

            As the US economy continues to attain record levels of prosperity, interest rates have recently plummeted below zero percent, for the first time in the history of banking. Prompted by a widespread conviction that inflation is no longer a big problem in this country, lending institutions have been aggressively enticing prospective clients by lowering their interest rates on loans to undercut their competition, to the point where some have even started offering “negative interest” loans. Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenback commented in a recent speech that his agency is powerless to stop this incredible financial markets trend, as it is driven by the free-market forces of capitalism.
            “The rich have been getting richer for years, and now we’ve reached the point where they don’t know what to do with their money,” explains Franny May, a leading advisor for many of the financial elite. “The whole point of this new sub-zero lending practice is to get more borrowers into a better financial category. Once this goal is reached, I expect that you may see rates go down even further. Heck, we may eventually wipe out poverty in America altogether someday.”
            The manufacturing sector is benefiting greatly from this unexpected affluence of the masses, as people are purchasing even luxury items in such numbers that there will soon be a shortage of many products once considered exclusive because of their prohibitive high prices, such as giant wall-sized High-Definition TVS, swimming pools, home gymnasiums and spas, even yatchs and summer/winter homes.

            Companies in the services industries, on the other hand, now find themselves facing the worst labor shortage in USA history, as nobody seems to be looking for work these days, resulting in the first negative unemployment rates since statistics have been kept.

            US Attorney General Janet Renu, whose family built its fortune by helping people get rid of red eyes, is now keeping an eye on these developments. “It seems that the banking industry has decided to emulate the tobacco companies’ approach to success, that is, practically giving away their product in order to get their customers hooked.” said A.G. Renu. “I’m afraid of what may happen if people get used to having lots of money. Nobody can accurately predict the potential consequences at this point, especially how this could affect our children’s future. These new lending practices might even be unconstitutional, so we’ll be watching this trend closely. In fact, we have already added more than 1,000 new lawyers, to help our agency determine the legality of these issues.”

            Now, if you will excuse me, I have to go turn in my loan application.

          • Ken Conrad Ken Conrad

            Bora, Could you provide a link to the above article?

          • bora petski

            Ken, all my stupid stories/articles are posted here:

            give mee feedback or nothing

    • bora petski

      “structural unemployment” sounds like a bridge over troubled waters, but I’d be all for it starting with the raw milk. Give these people a cow and compost!

    • bora petski

      Mark, please explain how we are a “freedom loving” country, when we have more people in jail than any other including China or banana republics etc. Nothing personal, just wondering how we get so deceived by social/political speak with no apparent repercussions to the rich.

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