FCLO vs Professional Responsibility

This post has been edited since it first went up, with material removed and added. The conclusion remains unchanged.

A few months ago, I watched a new documentary in Hanover, NH, the home of Dartmouth College, about how scientists from its medical school helped launch an investigation into a connection between ALS (sometimes referred to as “Lou Gehrig’s Disease”) and a common blue-green algae found in many lakes and streams.

The investigation, which began about five years ago, eventually drew in scientists from around the world, and made a convincing case for the connection. I got a very queasy feeling while watching the film, especially when it showed a scene of investigating scientists visiting a New Hampshire lake near to where I hang out a lot, and discovered lots of the algae, along with pockets of people along the lake experiencing a high incidence of ALS.

In other words, activities and natural substances people once considered healthy might potentially be deadly to health. My own response has been to avoid swimming in areas that appear to have algae growing, and to avoid commercial “green” drink mixes, since many contain questionable algae.

I’ve been thinking more about the connection between blue-green algae and neurological disease while continuing to ponder the connection between so-called fermented cod liver oil (FCLO) and illnesses and deaths that are popping up. We’ve seen two individuals prominent in the Weston A. Price Foundation community, who for years recommended FCLO and took it themselves, succumb to serious health conditions in the last few weeks.

Granted, FCLO isn’t anywhere close to as pervasive as blue-green algae. But what’s intriguing, at least to me, is the reaction of health-conscious communities in both these situations. The Dartmouth community approached the potentially destructive connection between blue-green algae and serious neurological conditions with open-minded curiosity. The WAPF community? It loves to demonize conventional medicine, along with the established medical community, yet it pretends that troubling connections between FCLO and serious health conditions like cancer and heart issues aren’t worthy of disclosure and exploration. And health professionals with big followings, some riding the WAPF’s coattails, have similarly failed to act responsibly and alert their followers to the potential dangers.

I have been reading, and re-reading, various writings about natural-health leaders who have connections with FCLO and who were hit with serious health issues. It’s more apparent to me than ever that such connections between FCLO and serious disease deserve close scrutiny and scientific study.

Following up on Rami Nagel’s death, reported in my previous post , I read a touching remembrance by his mother, on Facebook. It included her recollection on the progression of his illness: “Two locks of hair in my possession; one from Rami’s first haircut the other taken before he was buried are all the physical remains I have of my first-born son, Rami, who passed away July 28. He passed away too young. He was only 38 years old but a fighter to the end. The growing tumor in his brain stem was just too vicious attacking his nervous system. First to degenerate was his digestion, then his legs, arms, eyes, his swallow reflex and finally his breathing.”

She indicated that three books he wrote strongly advocating FCLO–Healing our Children, Cure Tooth Decay,  and Cure Gum Disease Naturally–generated substantial income: “He taught me to run my business on auto-pilot – the way he is running his. ‘I will retire at 40 and just live off of passive income.’ That was his goal. He was very close to it.”

“He left a legacy of clean natural living,” she concluded.

I’ve been told by a couple of people who knew Nagel well that he thought mercury poisoning had led to his brain cancer, and his challenge was to de-tox. There is no indication he received conventional cancer treatment.

I know of at least three nonprofit organizations, with substantial memberships or followings, that continue to recommend FCLO, without any warnings or notes of caution.


I’ve been a big proponent of our right to choose the foods and nutritional sources we feel are best for ourselves and our families. But I’ve also come to realize, more strongly than ever, that no one has a monopoly on the knowledge of foods that make us healthy and those that don’t. There is just too much we don’t know, and too much theory and ideology substituting for actual knowledge.

For health professionals in a position to influence others, that reality should mean at least providing a warning about the potential dangers of something like FCLO to their followers, especially when the FCLO is being given to children.  Not everyone knows about the controversy that has raged over the last two years, or of the troubling illnesses and deaths potentially associated with this supposed nutrient. They deserve to know.

82 comments to FCLO vs Professional Responsibility

  • Gordon s Watson

    if you’re going to discussiong in which you condone “conventional medicine” wrapping its tentacles around people with cancer, as a journalist, you owe your readership a baseline of the actuarial tables of the outcomes of > cut / burn / poison < versus a] doing nothing, and b ] various alternatives. Compare the hard evidence of the successes of the Budwig Protocol, and Dr William Donald Kelly, with that of multi, MULTI Billion $ cancer industry, which dare not admit it is one of the greatest failures of all time

  • Cathy Raymond

    Thank you David. I enjoy your take on things, even when it’s as challenging a subject at the FCLO controversy.

    It boggles the mind why WAPF does not put up a warning, or a FULL disclosure statement, as the FDA requires for cigarettes, alcohol, or ANY drug we see marketed on TV.

    Why? It’ a food, not a drug, supplement or regulated substance.

    Unless they put it in the category of Absinthe, Puffer Fish and other banned foods (like raw milk, yes it’s on the list) it’s buyer beware.


  • Thank you David for your usual clarity and wisdom. It is unconscionable to me that WAPF leadership would continue to subject its community–and especially its children(!)–to such a potentially hazardous substance. While evidence of harm is undeniable, including warnings from objective lipid experts, scores of personal testimonials, passionate concern from highly credible community members, and, perhaps most compelling, “common sense” that one should avoid something so revolting to our well-honed olfactory and taste sensory “warning systems.” if there is evidence of FCLO’s benefit beyond a standard placebo effect, I’ve yet to see it. As far as I can tell, FCLO’s only PROVEN benefit is economic to those who sell it.

    Human beings are frail, fallible and prone to elevate ego, power, status and money over the well-being of those they influence and allegedly care for. From Bernie Madoff to the current POTUS, the message is loud and clear: be very careful in whom you place your trust… and even more so your health.

    • David Gumpert David Gumpert

      Appreciate your comment, Randy. Like you, I have struggled to understand what drives the WAPF and especially its leader, Sally Fallon, to ignore the accumulating warning signs about FCLO. She could, in just a few words, force Green Pasture to either discontinue production or, at the least, issue a strong warning about the product to the many users still out there.

      I think all the factors you cite (ego, power, status, $$$) are important. I would add one other: that WAPF has always had some of the trappings of a cult, with Sally as the cult leader. Those trappings have become more pronounced as WAPF has lost many of its less cultish members turned off by the FCLO disaster. Cult leaders tend not to be very flexible or open to dissent, so I’m afraid I am pessimistic about the prospects of substantive change on the FCLO subject at WAPF.

  • Poor Rami. He was a good person and a friend of mine. May he rest in peace. Peace and blessings to his family — I can’t imagine how hard it is for them right now.

    Thank you, David, for continuing to cover this story. You are one of the few bloggers out there with integrity. What I can’t understand is why other bloggers don’t feel a responsibility to even report on this.

    I will write an article and link to you. Thanks, again.

    Ann Marie

    • David Gumpert David Gumpert

      I should mention that one of the pieces I re-read recently was your lengthy analysis nearly two years ago of the FCLO scandal in the context of WAPF history. I was particularly intrigued by your discussion of the death of Deirdre Currie, the wife of Archie Welch (a partner in a supplement company that for the last couple years has produced a fresh cod liver oil), of a pulmonary embolism during childbirth. You also alluded to Jerry Brunetti, a frequent speaker on preventing cancer at WAPF conferences, who died of a recurrence of cancer shortly before your column was written. I saw on a web site about his regimen that he advocated cod liver oil, but it wasn’t clear if he took fermented cod liver oil. These appear to be cases to research further to scope out possible FCLO tentacles.

  • William March

    Cancer is an aggressive diease and must be treated aggressively .I am a cancer survivor of 24 years ,I followed the advice given to me and had surgery ,chemo and radiation .I am 75 yrs old and lead an active life.Aperson I knew through business had cancer and she told me she would not let them “put any poison in her body” they buried her shortly after.I recently lost a brother to liver cancer he was a retired FBI agent and lead a “clean life it was too late for him ,he lasted 3 months .You must realize that food is not medicine ,enjoy the food you like but remember it does not create miracles.Thank you.

    • Kyle

      I think one of the points being made is that FCLO is so rancid that it might itself be responsible for so much illness in the WAPF community. It’s been taken every single day — often in very high doses — by men, women and children. Especially pregnant women and children. These people do so on the advice of Sally InFallible and the mommy bloggers who repeat her words like the gospel.
      Whether Rami and others also sought conventional or alternative cancer treatment is unknown. Sadly, many who’ve seen their health go downhill have responded by INCREASING their dose of FCLO.

    • Gordon S Watson

      William March = glad to hear your personal testimony. But you missed the key point, vis = the statistics prove that doing nothing, or, availing of particular protocols, give far, far better outcomes than submitting one-self to cut burn poison. “treatments’ by the medical Establishment. Another error you are apparently entrained, is : that “food is not medicine”. Certainly what’s coming out of the industrial agricultural machine, does not qualify as “food”. Which is why the Campaign for REAL MILK is doing so well – people see good results, often called “healing”

      the American Medical Association was started by Morris Fishbein, after Harry Hoxsey refused to sell him the formula for his cure for cancer. Of course, not every alternative therapy works on every individual. But over-all, the sickness industry in the US of A is one of the biggest con-games in all history.

      as a matter of FACT, undifferentiated cells all-of-a-sudden coming to life, is a normal function of the human body. Enzymes take care of those cells before they go rogue. And in many cases, such minor tumors exist for years, before they become problematic.

      I highly recommend the work of Dr William Donald Kelley, who explained what cancer is. Kelly being one of the many, many geniuses who were demonized/ destroyed by the Cancer Industry because the last thing the Establishment wants, is : a cure. I highly recommend the work of Dr Johanna Budwig, who has the best record of curing = curing = cancer, with a protocol that is too easy, too cheap, too common-sense for the over-educated idiots who run the CancerRacket, to allow to become popular.

    • Amanda

      William March, your observations of cancer are interesting as they lie in stark contrast to my own observations of watching those close to me with cancer, all of whom experienced a sharp and rapid decline in both health and quality of life upon undergoing those same routinely recommended cancer treatments that you mention… and then all of them died shortly after (within the span of a few months). In fact, tomorrow morning I will be attending the funeral of Joe, one of my closest friends of 15 years, who finally passed away on Thanksgiving Day, after he had been rotting in a vegetative brain-dead state for months in the oncology ward undergoing chemo for his brain tumor. He went from being completely active to bedridden immediately after the biopsy procedure.

  • mark mcafee mark mcafee

    Food is complimentary medicine.

    Most all of us can agree that the best outcomes from western medicine come from solid execution of conventional protocols plus complimentary use of foods to offset the horrendous toll it takes on our immune systems.

    There is real truth to this statement:

    Often…it is the cure that kills you…make sure you survive the cure to be able to live a life worth living.

    We have seen great outcomes by using solid western medicine coupled with complimentary nutrition. It may be the depressed immune system and the subsequent infection that gets you….often times it is just that!!

    That glass of anti-inflammatory bio-diverse GUT Biome rejuvenating raw kefir is not contra indicated as you go through chemo or being treated by anti-biotics. That bone broth is not contra indicated either…

    Docs don’t talk about the GUT and our biome as they completely torture our biome in the effort to eradicate cancer cells.

    With out a biome we are sitting ducks and welcome mats for secondary infection and subsequent death.

    We just need our doctors to embrace a “bigger medical tool box” and start to appreciate the live saving impact of conventional treatments with their negative and very toxic side effects and the positive good that comes from GUT biome restorative nutrition.

    That’s a tall order!

    • Gary Ogden

      Mark: I have a technical question. I was taking my usual Tuesday hike in Sequoia/Kings Canyon. I was headed to Big Baldy when I heard the crash of breaking branches, and saw a black animal through the trees about 100 yards up the trail. Bears are normally much quieter, and soon I saw some white, too. There were three or four cattle, and they were moving pretty fast for cattle, downhill. Up the trail a ways I saw their hoof prints. Horses are very common on these trails, and these prints look similar to horse prints, but more circular (a little shorter and broader). I’ve been to the dairy several times, but never closely examined the hooves. When I get a side of beef with feet (the best for stock!) there appear to be pointy fingers. I know that most mammals have fingers, whether or not they are fused into hooves or hidden in fins. Are the cows’ fingers hiding inside the hoof? Don’t laugh; it’s a sincere question.

  • Gary Ogden

    Gordon: Also Dr, Thomas Seyfried’s “The Metabolic Theory of Cancer.” Otto Warburg won the Nobel Prize for his discovery that cancer cells have defective mitochondria, which are almost entirely dependent on glucose for metabolism. There is some very interesting research underway using a ketogenic diet in battling cancer (R. D. Feinman has made some interesting posts about this on his blog).

  • Gary Ogden

    David: What were once called blue-green algae are now called cyanobacteria, and they are responsible for producing 80-90% of the oxygen which sustains life on Earth.

  • D. Smith D. Smith

    I’m going to dissect the classic troll intrusion you will almost always find at a reader comment section concerning NOT using current medical establishment protocol for cancer treatment – or any kind of disease treatment, for that matter. Stay with me here…

    From William March: “Cancer is an aggressive diease and must be treated aggressively .I am a cancer survivor of 24 years ,I followed the advice given to me and had surgery ,chemo and radiation .I am 75 yrs old and lead an active life.Aperson I knew through business had cancer and she told me she would not let them “put any poison in her body” they buried her shortly after.I recently lost a brother to liver cancer he was a retired FBI agent and lead a “clean life it was too late for him ,he lasted 3 months .You must realize that food is not medicine ,enjoy the food you like but remember it does not create miracles.Thank you.”

    Cancer is sometimes aggressive, sometimes slow moving, it depends on what type of cancer you have, but it’s always best for trolls to use a scare tactic right out of the shute. He’s a cancer survivor of 24 years. Well, how refreshing that someone is choosing a number more than 10 but less than 25, making things sound quite impressive. “A person” he knew had cancer and wouldn’t use conventional treatment and is now dead, buried and gone. Common course of conversation for a troll to use. And then, not to be outdone by an acquaintance, his brother was also a believer in natural methods (or whatever you want to call using a real food protocol) and, of course, he’s dead now, too. Classic trollese because he also threw in the “he only lived for 3 months” thing. And then comes the clincher – food cannot be used as medicine. Pure trolling rubbish and please don’t believe one word this guy says. There are many ways to treat cancer and people should be allowed to choose whatever path they feel comfortable with, whether they die the next day or not for 50 years. What we don’t need is some FDA troll here pushing their agenda by trying to make people feel guilty if they don’t follow the rest of the lemmings.

  • mark mcafee mark mcafee

    Gary Ogden,

    Cows have split hooves and no fingers per see. Deer have much the same foot print but much lighter, smaller and narrower….cows don’t go more than a few feet with out taking a crap. Cows on pastures crap all the time and it is loose. Deer scat is so different, small in amount and firm. See this image. I have become a real bullshit expert having been a state regulated raw milk dairy for 18 years!! LOL…


    I think you had a very rare Sierra Nevada White Striped Spotted Bovine Sasquatch…sighting!! They only appear when an Eclipse is eminent…LOL You are one fortunate guy!

  • William March

    GORDON WATSON I don’t think I made any disparaging remarks like calling the med establishment idiots .I was just trying to say cancer is an aggressive diease.Your comments that is better to do nothing about cancer is really misinformed .Statistics prove that medical attention result in better outcomes .Anecdotal evidence such as used by militant food groups is proof of nothing.FYI MORRIS F.was not the founder of the AMA it was established in 1843 Morris was born in 1925,also Harry Hoxley the person that had the “cure for cancer was a coal miner.You also said that unless a person eats the food you say is real food they are not eating good food ,all food is good food and for the most part it is safe food ,thanks to the food laws in this country.As far as enzymes are concerned it’s a pretty complex subject to make general comments about .As far as raw milk it is a food it cures or heals nothing it’s all anecdotal .The raw milk movement was started by Weston A Price fondation and Sally Fallon as far as I know she has a degree in English not nutrition or chemistry .Persons that give people hope with unscientific cures are evil THANK YOU


    • Gary Ogden

      William March: Morris Fishbien couldn’t possibly have been born in 1925. I think he was already editing the JAMA by that time. He was a real quack, though, promoting mercury medicine well into the 1930’s.

    • Gordon S Watson

      Mister March, I’m not going to clutter-up this forum going off on a thread as to the statistical evidence re: success of particular treatments, for cancer. Suffice to say : it’s overwhelmingly AGAINST your pals in the CanceRacket. You’ve got an awful lot to learn
      you got it part right, though. Hoxsey was indeed a coal miner ; owning quite a few of them. I strongly recommend you view the video about him, in which he boasts “I’ve got enough money to burn up a wet mule”. Which is why he lasted as long as he did, in his fight with the medical mafia; headed by Fishbein. The clinic Hoxsey started was forced out of the country, and was still going, healing people, long after he died.
      Sam Girod sits in gaol tonight, primarily because his salve had bloodroot in it … which was the key ingredient in Hoxsey’s cure = underscore cure = for skin cancer.

    • Ken Conrad Ken Conrad

      William, I know a lot of people who have had cancer, and they all died within a couple of years despite the aggressive treatments. There is only one woman that I am aware of who survived beyond 20 years; she must have had the constitution of Job in order to withstand all the aggressive surgery, radiation and toxic concoction they ravaged her body with. She used to comment and laugh at how she outlived the two doctors that treated her, both of whom died of cancer. In the end the cancer took her life (she was riddled with it), despite having gone into remission many years earlier.

      A friend of mine developed brain cancer and died about a year and a half following his diagnosis despite the surgery, chemo and radiation. He commented to me on the insanity of the radiation treatment, how they put him into a room, especially designed to protect the hospital staff, yet it was okay to subject his body to it because he was being treated for “cancer”… then he sort of chuckled! Are you aware that they use specific chemicals in their chemo concoctions when treating brain cancer patients such as polysorbate 80 in order to breakdown the blood brain barrier? This allows for the toxic substances to enter brain and attack the cancer. I jut shake my head knowing that they use that same polysorbate 80 in other drugs including vaccines that contain neurotoxins such as aluminum and mercury… As far as I am concerned any doctor that condones the current cancer treatment protocol as well as vaccines is a quack promoting fake medicine.

      Anyone that believes that “all food is good food and for the most part it is safe food , thanks to the food laws in this country” is living in a fools paradise.

  • William,

    Lets have a teaching moment or two. Please do a little research with me.

    Look up these EU NIH PubMed published peer reviewed articles and studies. They stand unrefuted by any contrary studies.

    Parsifal, Gabriela, Pasture, LMU Dr. Von Mutius, and the latest by Dr. JP Lalles French Paradox raw cheese studies.

    These studies provide strong evidence of raw milk and raw dairy prevention for the following diseases:

    Colds, ear infections, asthma prevention, excema treatment or prevention, powerful anti inflammatory effects, not to mention treatment of Crohns or UC by bone broth and Kefir.

    I beg to scientifically differ with you. Food is medicine. Disregard for this basic Hippocratic principal will doom us all to unsustainable costs of medical sick care. I totally believe in integrated complimentary ( nutritionally based Gut Biome regeneration ) medicine when coupled with solid western protocols. I have seen this approach work over and over again and again!!! Food is medicine for sure!!

    Do your home work on this studies then report back to me. Then tell me that food isn’t medicine.

    If you like one approach…use of drugs. Then you are really lost in an expensive pharma world of horrible side effects and bad outcomes.

    You really do not mean to say that you would choose a colostomy bag or Humira Remacade ( inflammation blocker that also causes known cancer as a side effect ) over some raw kefir and bone broth!!??

    Say it is not true ?? Go study those raw milk studies…..I don’t hate doctors….some of my closest frends are docs. I just want them to expand their tool boxes and do more to prevent. Its Farmers over Pharmcists first…then docs with drugs and surgeries integrated with healing foods as appropriate. That’s your best shot at true health and happiness! Food does matter!! It’s the basis of your gut biome! All disease begins in the gut. Another Hippocratic piece of wisdom !

  • Gary Ogden

    William March: I just checked. Morris Fishbien lived from July 22, 1889 to September 27, 1976, and both ran the AMA and edited JAMA from 1924 to 1950.

  • William March

    My mistake Morris F.was head of AMA by 1925. Sam Girot sits in jail because he would not show any humility or remorse when he was sentenced ,he was found guilty by that time ,and should not have been militant before the judge .WE have a right in this country to vote for leaders that will agree to get laws changed .Hoxley skin cancer “cure” contained caustic ingredients causing burns ,that’s why it was banned .THANK YOU

    • D. Smith D. Smith

      Oh boy, Mr. March, that is a rich statement. Bloodroot is caustic – – as if chemo, radiation, and all the drugs used during and after surgery aren’t caustic? That’s not even an argument that should register on people’s radar because it’s fat with ignorance.

  • Gordon S Watson

    Mr March : you’ve just given yourself away as an ignoramus = someone who does not know what he’s talking about, and refuses to admit he’s wrong, in the face of overwhelming evidence. You’re coming off as a shill for the FDA.

    “Caustic” ? that’s right. That’s why it worked …. the salve he sold, and gave away to those who couldn’t afford it, caused a tumor on skin to wither, turn into scab, then fall off. Harry Hoxsey was curing = curing = people of cancer with a remedy that was proven more efficacious than any thing used by the mainstream Cancer racketeers, today.

    “there is a principle which is a bar against all information, proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance : that principle is, contempt prior to investigation”
    Herbert Spencer

  • Gordon S Watson

    let’s see if you’re a big enough man William March, to actually get the facts and think for yourself. Start with the excellent precis about Hoxsey by the Health Ranger, at


    how this links to the Campaign for REAL MILK, is, the FACT that Hoxsey prevailed over the AMA in a court of law, in which the Court ruled that the AMA had used restrictive Trade practices. There is nothing new under the sun : that’s going on today = The FDA and the dairy cartel, make their livings from passing off the image of milk = cooked, denatured milk = while outlawing the competition.

  • William March

    Don Smith Is calling me names the best you can do?,I was just giving my opinion .The only comeback the militant members of the Real Food Movement, the Raw Milk crowd has is to put persons, government institutions and private business ,Monsanto ,etc down if they don’t follow the anecdotal opinions of these confused “Lemmings”. Mark McAfee does not agree with me ,but he did not insult me.

  • William,

    I agree. It is hard to teach, it is hard to listen and it is near impossible to respect those that name call.

    In a world where our leader is the champion of bully name calling, lies, a champion of disrespect and never listens….cause he knows it all.
    Let us all be longer term citizens and refuse to fall prey to his weaknesses. We will all hopefully outlive his highness and be able to rebuild the shambles he left for us.

    Can we be examples and listen, respect and attempt to teach and learn. I know in my life I never fail to learn something even as I have a very time understanding an opposing position.

    William you taught me to not get to caught up in my human gut biome raw milk kefir biodiversity world that I love so dearly. I had almost forgotten that there are those that are scared to death with a cancer diagnosis. Fear is all they have and rightfully so. Those good people do not need to be shamed because they failed by some arbitrary nutritional misconduct. No….They need love compassion and effective treatment that heals them.

    My goal is the expanded practice of medicine that includes killing the cancer….but saving the human from the immune destroying destruction of the conventional treatment. This is what complimentary medicine is all about.

    It is my hope that along with surgery, chemo and perhaps customized immuno-therapies ….doctors will soon prescribe bone broths, raw milk kefir, raw cheese, plenty of sunlight, compassion and loving support. In the end….the cancer will be gone, the gut will still be tact and the human will thrive.

    If not….we will all become welcome mats for opportunistic pathogens looking for a weakness to eat for lunch. We can not live unless we survive the cure. For me it is Farmer over Pharmacies….with food first to prevent disease. I am talking about bio active real unprocessed whole foods that build our immunities and prevent disease. Then if needed…..we need a really good doctor with a full tool box that includes “all the tools, technologies and tricks of the practice”.

    Thank you William…

    • Gordon S Watson

      yeah, I have to agree with you there, Mr McAffee = your behaviour during the last year, as you stooped the lowest common denominator of vile-ness … sneering and slandering, relentlessly puking-out the foulest names you could come up with, against the candidate for highest office in the land – caused me to lose all respect for you.
      yet today, you’ve kicked into Mark-McAffee-does-Miss-Manners-mode … preaching to us about being ” examples and listen, respect and attempt to teach and learn.” Words fail me to explain how double-minded you come off. As old Annie Landers used to put it ; “You need professional help”. apparently your moralist persona does not recall what the ass-hole personality said, last week : that being one of the symptoms of so-called ‘bi-polar disorder’. No doubt Big Pharma has a remedy for that, too

  • Real food is stuff that comes from nature or farms. Most of what is in grocery stores if what I call “food-like products”. Sure, it’s safe, if by safe you mean it won’t kill you immediately. But by that measure, cigarette smoking is safe too.

    I do not see a contradiction between real food and *some* mainstream medicine. Drugs have some side effects, that has to be balanced against the benefit.

    WRT cancer, I don’t recall which chemotherapy for which type of cancer it was, but the studies showed a real benefit – lifespan extended a few months. To me, that did not seem worthwhile given the side effects of chemo.

    But if I had any type of cancer, I’d want the numbers specific to the treatments offered for it before I made a decision.

    And eating real food would be a given along with whatever medical treatment I did or did not choose.

    As for the primary topic – I never understood how FLCO was supposed to be fermented. Fermentation means bugs eating carbs and there’s no carbs. I ought some once, in capsule form, and it smelled so horrific that I tossed it. My *cats* wouldn’t touch it. I did not see how it was considered edible.

  • William March

    Gordon S. Watson It seems to me that you like to call persons you don’t agree with names ,did you learn this from Nick Adams? .As far as Harry Hoxsey having a” cure” for cancer using caustic compounds, I think a lot of people can develop caustic solutions that would take the skin off an elephant or rust off a locomotive ,that dosent make them “cures”.As far as the “Health Ranger “I would trust The Long Ranger more and he wears a mask .While I don’t know for sure are you the fellow from Canada that’s against vaccines and taxes?.If that’s is you I can recommend a fellow here in Lancaster to give you some advice his name is Jim Schlosser. Jim is away at the request of the government for the next 46 months, I guess he had some advice for the tax people about the “Mark of the Beast “.He receive 46 months while poor Sam Girot got 7 yrs ,this is not right but Sam got bad advice from the anti government crowd .For your info I have many years experience in hi tech and the pharmaceutical fields . Sincerely and Thank You Bill March


  • Gordon S Watson

    Bill March. You’re way, way off the topic.

    I strongly recommend you get the facts about Harry Hoxsey, before you display your ignorance about him, and the evidence that his cure worked better than anything on the market today – on this forum, anymore. Obviously you haven’t seen the comments I posted to this forum, for nigh-on 10 ( ?) years, warning people to avoid the Pay-triot-for-Profit blather. If you’re happy to participate in the 2nd plank of the communist manifesto = the heavy, graduated tax on income = be my guest. But I don’t.
    the strength of the Campaign for REAL MILK, is ; we have first hand testimonies from millions of people drink it, and who are thinking for demselves based on thier own experience. Which provokes them to think some more about what other lies are being told by the govt.

  • William March

    Gordon Watson Almost every family in the USA has had experience with cancer including people in the medical profession .Do you really think that if Harry Hoxsey treatment worked it would be used regardless of the profit motive .The medical profession has come a long way in helping persons with cancer either by putting it in remission or extending life ,if possible .Harry Hoxsey had prostrate cancer and when his own treatment did not work ,he had surgery and lived another 7 yrs .As far as raw milk is concerned I am not an advocate but I am not against people drinking it,I drink it myself sometimes .Raw milk is available in many states today ,and I support the Amish farmers in Lancaster County through my business and know many organic Amish farmers .I do not support the militant raw milk advocates that use fear tactics .Again thank you Bill .

  • Ken Conrad Ken Conrad

    William March,In children, cancer ranks second only to injury-related deaths and is the most common cause of disease-related deaths; more than asthma, diabetes, cystic fibrosis and AIDS combined, with leukemia, brain and central nervous system cancers respectively ranking at the top in terms of incidence and death. Indeed, the Canadian Cancer Society states, “children are more likely to develop leukemia and lymphoma than adults”. Now why do you think that that is the case?

    The problem as I see it is the medical profession’s incessant focus on their, “Cut, Poison, Burn” so- called cure rather then searching for a cause. Indeed, and it is in its best interest “NOT” to search for a cause since the profession would surely have to point a finger at itself.

    Are familiar with animal retroviruses? If not then the following well thought out and referenced article below would be a good place to start. http://www.rense.com/general32/thrur.htm

    In an attempt to promote its “Solvent/Detergent”(S/D) technology for the inactivation of viruses the New York Blood Center (NYBC), has this to say from the above article, “Cell lines used in the manufacture of monoclonal antibody preparations and reagents used in tissue culture may be contaminated by viruses especially retroviruses, which can cross species barriers. Bovine viral diarrhea virus (BVD), whose small virion size does not allow 100% assurance of its filtration, may potentially contaminate every lot of commercially produced fetal bovine serum”.

    The S/D treatment according to NYBC utilizes a solvent known as tri-n-butyl phosphate, in conjunction with one of two detergents (non-ionic surfactants), polysorbate 80 (Tween 80) or Triton X-100. These toxic ingredients are commonly used in the production of vaccines in an attempt to deactivate the above and numerous other biological contaminants found in various animal derived serums (bovine, monkey, chicken egg yolk, etc.) that are used to culture these vaccine preparations. Retroviruses such as Avian leukosis and bovine leukemia are recognized leukemia type diseases in animals and they along with BVD are recognized vaccine contaminants that have to be dealt with using the above chemicals. And with respect to the use of polysorbate 80, are you aware that it is used specifically in the chemo concoction to treat brain cancer patients due to its ability to break down the blood brain barrier so that their dastardly toxic chemicals can enter the brain and attack the cancer? Considering this fact do you not think it unwise to repeatedly inject it into an infant via vaccines?

    The medical communities reductionist reasoning in an attempt to rationalize aggressive toxic treatment protocols is grossly misleading… If one follows for example, the CDC’s recommended vaccination schedule, a child in the US will receive 43+ doses of 14 vaccines by the time he/she is 6 years of age. What are the synergistic and cumulative affects of injecting that number of multi-dose vaccines into an infant that contain various solvent detergents, preservative, adjuvents and excipients such as, formaldehyde or formalin, Triton X 100, polysorbate 80, acetone, MSG, antibiotics, aluminum potassium sulfate, aluminum hydroxide, aluminum phosphate, aluminum hydroxyphosphate, etc. etc. etc.? Simply put, THEY DON’T KNOW… and based on this lack of knowledge they persist with their assault on human dignity.

    Why is there such a high incidence of leukemia and other forms of cancer in children? Is it unreasonable to conclude that the injection of vaccines which bypass natural censoring mechanisms are responsible?

  • Gordon S Watson

    like I said Mister March ; go do your own homework on the Hoxsey treatment. IN FACT the Hoxsey treatment WAS used regardless of the profit motive. But you don’t know even that much about it, because you’re biggoted in favour of the Establishment model for treating cancer, which – if nothing else – has proven to be an utter failure.

    over half a century ago, Johanna Budwig articulated a theory of cancer, and a practical approach for curing it, in which Quark from raw milk, is a major ingredient. But the Budwig Protocol is too simple, too cheap, too successful. The Cancer industry – which derives untold amount$ of $$ from its practices, would be out of business in short order if it became widely known, so they do their utmost to denigrate all alternatives.

    It puzzles me why you bother with this forum. Most readers here are a decade-or-so ahead of you, appreciating that the major embarrassment of American medicine, is : iatrogenic deaths. The statistics of the cancer racketeers themselves, prove that someone with cancer does better doing nothing, or, using an alternative therapy, than submitting to them.

    what an amusing sign-off Mister March! … faulting me for using “fear tactics” ? apparently you haven’t been around long enough to know that fearmongering is THE main tactic in Big Dairy’s campaign against raw milk for human consumption.

  • William March

    Ken Conrad While cancer in chrildren is a terrible disease there is no proof that vaccines are the cause .There were 16,000 chrildren diagnosed with cancer of all types in the USA in 2016 .Prior to 1950s very few chrildren were vaccinated yet the insidence of childhood cancer was much higher for chrildren and very few survived .The survival rate for childhood cancer was about 20% in 1950 today the survival rate is approaching 90%.Today millions of chrildren are vaccinated compared to 1950.I Think the medical field has come a long way in the fight against childhood diease .As far as the “greedy medical business did you ever hear of St.Judes Hospital or Shriner Hospital they treat chrildren for free .As for additives in vaccines they have been proven safe in spite of the new fear of chemicals .Some of these chemical are found in the human body and in the food we eat such as veggies milk water etc.This is all I am going to say on this subject ,I only hope that if people that read this blog ever get a cronic illness they contact a medical professional ,rather than some uneducated person with bad advice .Thank you .

    • Ken Conrad Ken Conrad

      William, To begin with, there is a world of difference between natural censured exposure and uncensored vaccine injections into the body, especially when chemicals such as polysorbate 80, which are known to disrupt the blood brain barrier’s ability to protect the brain, are introduced via that very injection!

      Your statement that there is “no proof “that vaccines cause cancer is indicative of your lack of understanding or refusal to accept the facts. Vaccine ingredients do indeed cause cancer in both humans and animals.

      The American Veterinary Medical Association (AVMA) developed a “Vaccine-Associated Feline Sarcoma Task Force” (VAFSTF) back in 1996 to keep track of the prevalence of the condition, and to investigate ways to help mitigate and prevent it. Rather then simply not vaccinating cats they suggest injecting in location where it can be easily treated with their barbarous surgery, chemotherapy, and radiation. They certainly have pet owners coming and going with this revolving door policy!.

      As I stated earlier, retroviruses especially the oncogenic variety, are recognized vaccine contaminants and are known to cause cancer and/or immune deficiency!

      If you understood the nature of a retrovirus and its related variants such as pestiviruses and lentiviruses etc. you might change your tune. Once in the body they are there for life due to their latent ability to conceal themselves within the cell structure of the host, waiting, (sometimes for decades) to do their dastardly deeds when the appropriate conditions present themselves.

      The National Center for Biotechnology Information (ncbi) states, Retroviruses are RNA viruses that reverse-transcribe their RNA into proviral DNA. These viruses are associated with a wide variety of cancers in chickens mice, cats, and monkeys. Some retroviruses cause a specific type of cancer soon after infection in a high proportion of animals, whereas others cause various cancers late after infection in a lower proportion of animals. Highly oncogenic retroviruses are recombinants of viral and host genes. The cancers induced by these viruses are determined by the transduced host gene. Retroviruses that cause cancer at a low incidence do not contain inserted host information. Rather, they appear to cause cancer via mutation of the expression of potentially oncogenic host genes. During their normal life cycle, retroviruses integrate proviral DNA into the chromosomal DNA of their host. Integrations occur at many different sites. Most integrations are benign, but some result in cancer. Retroviral research has identified 12 potentially oncogenic host genes. Each is associated with a characteristic cancer or spectrum of cancer. Several appear to code for protein kinases that phosphorylate tyrosine residues.

      After hundreds of millions of people were injected with SV40 contaminated polio vaccine in the 50’s and 60’s NCBI has this to say, “The presence of SV40 in monkey cell cultures used in the preparation of the polio vaccine from 1955 through 1961 is well documented. Investigations have consistently demonstrated the oncogenic behavior of SV40 in animal models. Early epidemiologic studies were inadequate in demonstrating an increase in cancer incidence associated with contaminated vaccine. Recently, investigators have provided persuasive evidence that SV40 is present in human ependymomas, choroid plexus tumors, bone tumors, and mesotheliomas, however, the etiologic role of the virus in tumorigenesis has not been established”. Is this statement conclusive? Perhaps not… However I am not going to hold my breath waiting for them to figure it out. I choose rather agree with Dr. Robert Bell, fmr VP International Society for Cancer Research at the British Cancer Hospital “The chief, if not the sole, cause of the monstrous increase in cancer has been vaccination”

      As to the effectiveness or deleterious nature of “aggressive” cancer treatment… There was a 37-year-old young man who passed away a few days ago in our area. He was diagnosed with cancer a month ago and underwent conventional chemo treatment. Was it the cancer or the so-called treatment that killed this individual?

  • Bora Petski

    Common substances found in vaccines include:

    Aluminum gels or salts of aluminum which are added as adjuvants to help the vaccine stimulate a better response. Adjuvants help promote an earlier, more potent response, and more persistent immune response to the vaccine.
    Antibiotics which are added to some vaccines to prevent the growth of germs (bacteria) during production and storage of the vaccine. No vaccine produced in the United States contains penicillin.
    Egg protein is found in influenza and yellow fever vaccines, which are prepared using chicken eggs. Ordinarily, persons who are able to eat eggs or egg products safely can receive these vaccines.
    Formaldehyde is used to inactivate bacterial products for toxoid vaccines, (these are vaccines that use an inactive bacterial toxin to produce immunity.) It is also used to kill unwanted viruses and bacteria that might contaminate the vaccine during production. Most formaldehyde is removed from the vaccine before it is packaged.
    Monosodium glutamate (MSG) and 2-phenoxy-ethanol which are used as stabilizers in a few vaccines to help the vaccine remain unchanged when the vaccine is exposed to heat, light, acidity, or humidity.
    Thimerosal is a mercury-containing preservative that is added to vials of vaccine that contain more than one dose to prevent contamination and growth of potentially harmful bacteria.

    …have been proven safe in spite of the new fear of chemical, eh? Well have at it but don’t push it on me and mine.

    • Gordon S Watson

      Bora Petski, your laundry list lacks the most controversial “ingredient” of what’s in vaccines, ie : so-called “attenuated” pathogens cultivated on human cells which were harvested out of artificial abortions. Ham-merica is practicing canni~Baal-ism, under aegis of the Cult of the White Robe.

      the propaganda being folded-in to this forum lately, by William March, reminds me of when I was on the public street, attempting to warn and inform the nation about corruption in the medical racket. It boggled my mind, that people would stand there straight-faced and deny that the baby in the womb is a human being … as Mark McAffee does to this day.

      now coming in to focus is what Theodore Dalyrmple said
      > “The purpose of progressive propaganda is not to convince or persuade, not to inform – but to humilate ; and so the less it corrresponds to reality, the better. When people are forced to remain silent when they are being told the most obvious lies, or even worse, when they are forced to repeat the lies themselves, they lose their sense of probity. To assent to obvious lies is to become evil oneself. One’s standing to resist anything, is eroded. A society of emasculated liars is easy to control” < To which I add : take a look around you today … you who call yourselves "Christians", and weep.

      But let's not go on about such unpleasant-ness, shall we? As Frank Zappa put it so well, half a century ago = "America drinks and goes home"

  • William March

    Bora Now the facts Aluminum is the 3rd most common naturally occurring element on earth .Aluminum is found in plants we eat and in the water we drink .It also found in breast milk .It has been used in vaccines for many years ,it does not show up in the blood after vaccination .Antibiotics have never been shown to cause a reaction in a vaccinated person .Animal proteins have been used in medicines for over 100 years with excellent results .
    Formaldehyde is classified as a carcinogen in large amounts,it to is also found in the human body in small amounts ,in fact it is found in human babies at a concentration much higher than in the vaccine .Did you ever hear of Smallpox it killed millions of persons,should we go back to that ?.How about polio ?.If the benefit out weights the risk ,we go with the benefit .I don’t get my knowledge from the CDC I get it from my years of experience .Thank you.

  • mark mcafee mark mcafee


    You may notice that the link provided by Dr. Joe Heckman shows a study and peer reviewed article about raw milk preventing asthma in Mice.

    Dr. Ton Baars was one of the researchers and authors. He sits on the RAWMI board and is a great guy! So proud of his work. This peer reviewed study all but proves that raw milk is excellent for asthma and allergies. Why….because this model confirms the PARSIFAL, GABRIELA,LMU Dr. Loss and Von Mutius and PASTURE study of more than 40,000 raw milk drinking kids in the EU which showed that they experienced dramatically lower asthma and allergies and ear infections and even colds!!!

    What can I say…the science backs up human experience and the MICE agree!! Raw milk is good for asthma, allergies and ear infections when pasteurized milk triggers asthma and allergies!! Its Farmers over Pharmacies!!

    • Ken Conrad Ken Conrad

      Here is another study done on mice that concluded, “Systemic autoimmunity appears to be the inevitable consequence of over-stimulating the host’s immune ‘system’ by repeated immunization with antigen, to the levels that surpass system’s self-organized criticality”.

      Between pasteurized milk, vaccines and excessive use of hormones and antibiotics et. etc. etc., solving the problem of autoimmunity will continue to be an uphill battle. For certain, “We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them”. Albert Einstein

  • William March

    As far as the studies of raw milk helping chrildren these studies are inconclusive .These studies were all performed in rural areas where raw milk in consumed .Chrildren in rural areas are exposed to animals,soil etc . In order for these studies to show more evidence that raw milk helps to control asthma ,chrildren in urban areas would have to be included .I will not comment on mice studies and dust mites .Also most of the studies on chrildren reccommend not drinking raw milk due to the fact that chrildren with cronic illness should not be exposed to unnecessary risks .SV40 was shown to be in polio vaccines but studies show no increase in cancer due to this .Animal serums have been used for many years in medicine with good results The medical field has saved millions of lives thru dedication and research.Ken mentioned a young man died of cancer after one week ,I would have to know what kind of cancer he had ,how long he had it etc.Chemothrapthy is sometimes given in the last weeks of life to relieve pain ,it’s called palliative chemothrapthy.Ican’find anything
    About Albert Einstein saying anything about raw milk .With the knowledge Ken and Don have I hope they are both using the knowledge to help persons with illness.Ido not understand the ad version to the medical field .As for the profit motive preventing cures I would have you look at Whole Foods ,they charge $13.99 for a roasted chicken you can buy a Cosco for $4.99 do you really think it’s that much better?I am not against raw milk and have sold many gal ons over the years .I an against the militant aspect of it and the anti science ,and the way the medical field is shown ,greed etc. Studies have shown there is no single food that prevents or causes cancer that’s a fact ,enjoy what you eat and drink,and when you are in need of a doctor see one before it’s too late .Thank you


  • William.

    I take exception to a couple of your assertions. First, the science is peer reviewed and published. It s pub med NIH listed. The science and studies about raw milk addressed the environment in which the kids drank raw milk. This was cross checked by at least seven EU studies.

    You didn’t do you homework as I requested you to do. …please do not comment with bias. The science has been hard earned and stands proudly on its merits. No published studies refute the EU research performed.

    As far as safety is concerned…..what is wrong with Tested & Safe raw milk?? When every batch is tested prior to leaving the farm, you can not claim a safety issue. Pasteurized dairy products have claimed the lives of more than 85 consumers since 1990 ( CDC)

    Show me the stack of raw milk bodies!!! There aren’t any!!

    There are scarce few people, the FDA or doctors that would ever say that breast feeding is not preferred for both babies and mothers health.

    Breast milk is raw milk!! So much is lost in pasteurization! It turns anti inflammatory food into the most inflammatory food in the USA!

    I am disappointed that you did not do your homework. The pub med NIH listed studies once again are these: Parsifal, Gabriela, Pasture, LMU Loss Von Mutius, French Paradox Lalles….

    Read all of these then you will be better informed.

    Mark Mcafee.

  • Bora Petski

    William, read this and weep:

    “Earlier this summer, NPR reported on this very phenomenon, wherein mutant strains from the polio vaccine caused more paralysis than wild polio. Could it really be that a lab-altered version of a virus is more dangerous than the one found in nature? Absolutely.

    As Jason Beaubien reports, as of June 2017, there were more cases of child paralysis caused by the polio vaccine than the actual, wild-caught disease itself. At the time of his reporting, just six cases of “wild” polio, which is naturally occurring in the environment, had been reported worldwide. Conversely, 21 cases of vaccine-derived polio had been reported internationally in June. Obviously, in Syria that number skyrocketed over the last two months — 33 children in Syria alone have been paralyzed by vaccine-derived polio.”


    “It’s actually an interesting conundrum. The very tool you are using for [polio] eradication is causing the problem,” says Raul Andino, a professor of microbiology at the University of California at San Francisco.”


  • William March

    MARK I did review some of the studies u on suggested ,my findings are as follows .The Gabriela study did find that raw milk gave some relief to chrildren ,at conclusion the do not reccomend raw milk due to bacteria content .The Parsifal study was not complete and more study was said to be needed .The Pasture study was very lengthy ,they also said there was some relief to chrildren ,their conclusion was that the health hazards of raw milk could be overcome by a process to make milk pathology free.I Understand you are the largest supplier of raw milk in The USA and I know you run an excellent business .I also know your milk is tested and handled properly .Please read the John Hopkins study on raw milk it’s pretty conclusive .The reason I originally I commented in this blog was I was trying to give my story about cancer due to the cod liver oil problem .I told the story about my brother ,a friend and me ,all victims of cancer ,But I had to be insulted and called names by comments on this blog .Again I have nothing against raw milk and did sell it for several years .I am against the militants in the movement that will not allow different opinions and shout down opposition. MILK IS A VERY GOOD FOOD .I will not comment on this any more as my time is important to me .I wish you much success and thank you for being a gentleman .

  • Gordon S Watson

    William March – you originated this thread by insulting the intelligence of most of the subscribers to this forum, desparaging our experiences with REAL MILK having miraculous curative powers, to the extent that we have good reason to believe it certainly qualifies as “medicine”. The focus of the Complete Patient website, was and continues to be = the politics of the medical system. If we know one thing for sure, it’s that the so-called War on Cancer is worse than an utter failure. You’re entitled to your opinion drawn from your experience, yet I called you an “ignoramus” because you show up here, sneering at us, while refusing to examine your pre-suppositions. If you want to tread in to the arena of politics, you’d better heed what old Harry Truman said ; “If you can’t stand the heat, get out of the kitchen’ so = leave off with the kvetching about tone versus content.

    your line “I am against the militants in the movement that will not allow different opinions and shout down opposition”, in light of you calling Mark McAffee a “gentleman”, is ridiculous. I [ and not a few other subscribers to this forum ] are still plenty disgusted, remembering what he said during the election of 2016. Particularly ; endorsing the anti-Fa … masked thugs looting, burning assaulting citizens assembled for a political rally. Just exercising their “freedom of speech”, said Mr McAffee, then.

    the really rich irony, being … when his foaming-at-the-mouth hysterical persona creeps back into the crypt, and his other personality takes charge … demonstrating the unmittigaged gall to lectures us about “good manners”!

  • William March

    Gordon I can stand the heat ,you can’t stand somebody with a different option. I Assure that I have studied the facts .The stories about raw milk curing illness are all antedotal. Please show me one published story showing a cure from raw milk .I don’t know any published scientific papers calling any milk “medicine” .If you are looking for miraculous cures you should try “LOURDES ” .Politics should be debated by people involved ,that’s what’s wrong with this country, right now we can’t discuss anything without name calling .I did not show up here to discuss raw milk ,I was trying to inform about cancer ,We are winning the battle with cancer ,thanks to all the dedicated people working on it .I don’t think I was an ignoramus by giving my story, but you can’t stand somebody with a intelligent opinion Milk is a good food and has nutrients raw or pastuerized ,just like carrots ,beans ,apples ,hot dogs , etc .All food helps to keep your body going through out life .All,food is real food ,we should ” thank “who ever for the good safe food we have in this country You have a right to you beliefs ,but after after reading my remarks you still agree with all the hype let me know ,you see I am from Brooklyn ,and in Brooklyn we sometimes have a bridge for sale .Thank you I will not be commenting any further on this topic ,your too set in your opinions.

    • Gordon S Watson

      proof that you don’t know whereof you speak, Mr March, are your absurd statements “we are winning the battle with cancer thanks to all the dedicated people working on it”. and also : “all food is real food”. I was taught “never talk down to your audience.” But for you, I’ll make an exception. For guys like you, I simplify my sermon down to the concept of > genuine food versus the image of food <. What you find on the shelves of modern supermarkets, are ; fancy packages of substances which – overwhelmingly – have had most of the nutrients rendered out of them, to suit the agenda of the processors, instead of the end user. for the last 2 generations, the very nutrition was stolen out of our mouths. What's been done to "milk" being THE prime example. We've been cheated out of our birthright of milk and honey.
      Damn right I'm set in my opinions. I came by them honestly after studying this topic since 1995. … contrary to the nonsense parroted by idiots who apologize for the sickeness racket. such as = someone who tosses-off the word "anecdotal" as a way to dismiss cures which are nothing less than miraculous, after the Cult of the White robe guys with their voodoo pharmaceuticals, had given up on individuals.

    • Mary McGonigle-Martin

      William, Gordon is not a nice human being. Don’t get in the trap of engaging him. It is just best to ignore his pathetic rants.

    • Ken Conrad Ken Conrad

      If I may, I’d like to rephrase what I stated above, “your reasoning with respect to food is over simplified, not all foods are living probiotic foods like raw milk and raw honey”…

    • Ken Conrad Ken Conrad

      William, War is the product human arrogance.

      The moment we declared this ill-considered aggressive, toxic “war on cancer”, including this similar shortsighted war on the microbe, the battle was lost. Indeed, and because we have chosen in large part to overlook and suppress the consequential collateral damage, immeasurable suffering has resulted.

  • Gordon S Watson

    political activists like moi, who realize that our calling is to be “the sharp end of the Big Stick”, soon find out that the patron saint of Canada is Saint Iain the Nice. Fall afoul of the core value up here = the Nice-Ian creed = and the Establishment will frame you up for prosecution for simply telling the Truth aloud in public. Even though we did get a 90-day gaol term out of it … which we never actually served, because Judge Wong could see what a load of crap the Health Authority’s case was … the Campaign for REAL MILK is = relatively = a walk in the park.

    when I get right down to the nitty-gritty of the issue, in short order, most people cannot handle the implications on their own self-image. So their reaction – a la Mister March – is to start whimpering about me hurting their feelings. I didn’t come here to be “nice” ( although that may happen occaisonally as un-intended consequence ) What I want is results. “I came to chew bubblegum and kick ass. And I’m all outta bubblegum”

    so I take that endorsement from the perennial Broom-Hilda, ie M McG.Martian, as a backhanded compliment. It must really rankle poor Mary, that in the time-frame she’s been posting her patented pathos to this forum, the number of US states in which REAL MILK is now available, has doubled … British Columbia is next!

  • William March

    Gordon You didn’t hurt my feelings, bigger fools than you have tried , to no avail .I don’t understand why you are so upset about my comments on the fight against cancer .Do you think Whole Foods ,Weston A Price Org.etc are going to solve cancer .I would say they will say anything to make $$$$$$,that’s what they do best .All FOOD IN THIS COUNTRY IS GOOD FOOD .There is no reason to call conventional farmers and processors names .Pastuerized milk is good food it is not dead like a lot of militant raw milk people say it’s all antedotal .As I have said before I was a believer in raw milk but I now relize it does not
    make a difference along the journey through life .Enjoy the taste if you think it’s better ,but that’s also subjective .You seem to have a difference with the government in Canada ,I would suggest you try a hobby instead ,there are some good ones ,like golf ,fishing,model railroading ,etc. As I have said before I really don’t want to comment any more THANK YOU BILL .

  • Margaret Auld-Louie

    The people I see surviving cancer are those willing to do a combination of holistic and conventional treatments. I’ve seen 2 people die in short order of breast cancer because they didn’t want to cut/burn/poison their body and only did natural treatments. They were both holistic health practitioners and very knowledgeable about alternative treatments. There are many kinds of cancers and IMO cut/burn/poison is sometimes necessary to survive the cancer.

    • Gordon S Watson

      Margaret Auld-Louie … you are sadly and typically mis-informed. Cancer is a condition of the body which manifests in different ways. The racketeers are quite happy that their customers keep buying-in to the nonsense it has various “Kinds”. If you are sincerely interested in this topic, start with the work of Dr William Donald Kelley, who based his treatments on what John Baird had discovered back in 1905. The placenta can be seen as de facto a tumor, which stops invading the uterine wall at day 56 after conception. Baird determined that is the day on which the baby’s pancreas starts making its own enzymes. Kelley built on that to help thousands of people heal themselves of cancer. Confer with his book “One answer to Cancer”. Of course, the American Medical Association demonized him, to make sure that his approach was discredited. Too easy / too cheap / too much of an embarrassment to the reputation of the Cult of the White Robe. Worst of all = in their books = Kelley was a Christian who attributed the many cures = yes, cures = to the Great Healer, namely Jesus Christ.

      Mister March finally blurted-out what he’s doing on this forum … he’s a troll. But he did serve a purpose : simplifying the thing right down to my punchline when I give a talk on REAL MILK. Raw milk has life within it, while the other stuff has the goodness cooked out of it. The battle is in the mind … it’s Life against Death as the God of Israel establishes his Kingdom on the Earth. And Mr March just showed his colors.

  • Mark McAfee Mark McAfee


    I agree with you wholeheartedly. Our best rate of cancer survival is a combination of both conventional medicine and complimentary nutritional methods.

    Unfortunately, cancer cells love nutrition and thrive when nourished.
    The trick is to kill the cancer while supporting the rest of the body that is getting collaterally damaged by the highly toxic whole body therapy.

    We all must acknowledge that so many cancer patients die due to opportunistic infections secondary to immune depression while under conventional therapy. This is where Raw Milk Kefir and a whole food diet really shines to save the Gut and keep the human gut biome alive and well.

    There is great promise being shown in rat studies in Norwey. Researchers there were able to micro encapsulate chemo drugs and increase dosage of this especially delivered chemo therapy. That micro encapsulated chemo had little effect on the whole body and even reached across the blood barrier. But…..( here’s the great part ) when ultra sound was applied to the cancer tumor or cell location, the micro encapsulated chemo was released and the tumors where destroyed quickly with little side effect on the rest of the body. Including brain tumors that recently could not be reached.

    This therapy is currently being done on lab rats and it will be years before humans will benefit but this is brilliant great stuff.

    The golden egg will be prevention. Until we can prevent or even clearly understand causation …. we should seek low risk diets and lifestyles.


    • Gordon S Watson

      “prevention … causation” ? you say? Dr William Donald Kelley spelled out causation of Cancer, in the mid-1960s. Applying his understanding, all the while improving it, until run out of town by the AMA, he proved that revival of the pancreas’ ability to produce type and quantity of enzymes cured thousands of people … many of whom had been told by the Cult of the White Robe, to go home and put their affairs in order, because their cancers were ‘too far gone’.

      Micro-encapsulation then activation by ultra-sound, of patented pharma-copea, is straight from Hell’s Kitchen. Disappointing, to see the Man astride the White Cow of the Campaign for REAL MILK = namely Mark McAffee = singing from the FDA’s songbook on this topic.

    • Ken Conrad Ken Conrad

      Attempting to use a combination of both conventional medicine and complimentary nutritional methods would be like washing dishes in dirty water. In order to overcome cancer we need to address the root cause and naturally balance the biological terrain. This in turn will nurture a strong immune system. What we dismantle with conventional cancer treatment will likely not ever be fully restored. A healthy bio-signature begins at birth. If we undermine our bio-terrain at a latter point in our lives with toxic procedures/rituals such as antibiotics, vaccines and chemotherapy then chronic illness will be the inevitable result.

  • William March

    BORA The vacines used in the USA does not use the live polio virus it’s injectable and is quite expensive .polio was a serious diease and to make lite of it us foolish .Parents in this country were quite relieved when a dedicated man Dr. Jonas Salk came up with the vaccine in the 1950s .I remember the chrildren in the iron lungs ,and I had cousin that had a leg paralized by polio.The vaccine used in Syria is the oral live Sabin vaccine .Most chrildren in the area where this outbreak occurred were not vaccinated .The country was and is being destroyed by civil war the health system in Syria is broken down as would be expected .Chrildren were being vaccinated with the live vaccine in Syria but not all were vaccinated at the same time .So what happened the chrildren that were vaccinated with the live vaccine mingled with the unvaccinated chrildren .Polio is transmitted thru human feces,”poop” .Due to the unsanitary conditions and the poor sanitation in the country the feces gets into the water supply ,and let’s also realize that chrildren do not wash there hands as they should after “pooping this is what caused the outbreak .It had nothing to do with the vaccine being improperly made .I hope this is helpful . I must say I do not understand while “somewhat “educated people are so against research that helps all mankind .I don’t understand the motive of all this hate of the medical field and research .You must realize that ideas ,and progress are not the same as they were 100 years ago ,You cannot say what people knew back than is as far as we should go.I spent a number of years ,working with persons in medical research and know their dedication.I am so grateful for the lives of DRS.SALK AND SABIN for the many lives ,and injuries they have prevented with their dedication .Please rethink you position ,and be thankful for the progress we have made in combating diease in this wonderful country .THANK YOU BILL

  • Gordon S Watson

    no, Mr March you “don’t understand the motive of all this hate of the medical field and research”, because you prefer to stay ignorant of the reports of adverse reactions. If so-called ‘vaccination’ is so safe, and so well-substantiated, then how come the Congress of the US of A, categorically exempted the industry from lawsuits for consequent harms ? Answer : because the pay outs for medical malpractice would put Big Pharma out of business, if parents of children so-harmed, are allowed to put the evidence before juries.

    I’d recommend that you “rethink your own position”, in light of the revisions to history, of which we are now aware, contradicting the propaganda put out by the racketeers, but it would be a waste of breath…. you’re committed to the Central Party Line and you’ll go to your grave believing the non-sense.

    once again ; the way to cultivate genuine, lifetime immunization against a particular pathogen, has been proven in over 4000 peer-reviewed studies, since 1949. Yet it’s suppresed and outlawed by the medical racketeers for the same reason the real cures for cancer, are, too. Because implementation of IMMUNE MILK would be too cheap, too simple and would supremely embarrass the boys and girls in the Cult of the White Robes.

  • Just stating the facts guys…..just the facts. Survival data is survival data.

    • Ken Conrad Ken Conrad

      The facts you say?


      “Cancer is the second leading cause of death globally, and was responsible for 8.8 million deaths in 2015.

      “Globally, nearly 1 in 6 deaths is due to cancer.” (In a previous report I referred to it was stated that cancer, “causes more deaths than malaria, tuberculosis, and AIDS combined”).

      “The number of new cases is expected to rise by about 70% over the next 2 decades”.

      When stating causes and risk factors, notice how they conveniently omits medical interventions that negatively effect immune function such as excessive antibiotic use, the birth control pill, and most importantly… “vaccinations” just to name a few!

      Cancer is the “#1 disease killer of children ages 1-4 in the US”, with leukemia ranking at the top. And its no mere coincidence that cancer in children is occurring at the same time that these same children are receiving 50 doses of 14 toxic vaccines between day of birth to age six and 69 doses of 16 toxic vaccines between day of birth and age 18!

      More than 40 children are diagnosed “every day” with cancer in the U.S. alone and the condition along with the treatments will also claim “daily”, the lives of four American children.

      Although the survival rate is stated to be improving, 60% of children who do survive cancer suffer late-effects, such as infertility, heart failure, gut disorders and secondary cancers to name just a few of the chronic complications affiliated to the treatment.

      It’s gut wrenching just to think about it and our denial that conventional medicine plays an instrumental and significant role with respect to the onset of cancer in children and adults is at best, the epitome of foolishness and at worst, borders on criminal negligence.

  • Ken Conrad Ken Conrad

    “Elite members of the highest paid professions use academic journals and mainstream media to openly preach fear, hate, prejudice and discrimination against people who disagree with them about vaccination.”

  • Gordi,

    For once I agree with something you said: immune milk would be effective, simple, cheap and totally harmless.

  • Mark McAfee Mark McAfee

    Our heartless, nazi, racist president just suspended the DACA program.

    Today…. the Hispanic people of America need to have a three day strike!!!
    Stop picking fruit, stop driving tractors, stop cleaning toilets and collecting garbage , stop cutting lawns, stop making beds, stop making burgers!!
    Bring America to its knees so our ass of a president is rejected for what he is.

    Trump…these are unspeakable acts against innocent Americans. Yes they are every bit Americans. They hold jobs, pay taxes, attend schools, graduate from colleges. Where will ICE deport these kids that have known no other country ?

    Who in the hell is going to rebuild Houston Texas!!

    It is time to take to the streets!!

    • D. Smith D. Smith

      Just a word . . . Mark, you do not even understand what you’re talking about. President Trump did not “end” anything. He simply put things back the way they were before President Obozo changed them with an executive order, not even a legal step. Nope, President Trump simply put this back into the hands of the CONgress of the USA to do whatever they want to do with it, since it’s not up to the President (no matter what color he is)to make this call. It should have been a CONgressional call from the get-go. Mark, you really need to read up on things before you start tossing around your opinions.

  • Gordon S Watson

    so let me get this straight Mark McAffee? you’ve left off dairying / teaching, and now place yourself out front of the rent-a-mob of miscreants? Inquiring minds want to know if you’ll be showing your face, while wearing the Organic Pastures Dairy logo? Does your understanding of civil dis-obedience condone the wearing of a mask while rioting? People are known by the company they keep … Better take a good long look at who’s pulling the rioters’ strings … start with the website of Dr Henry Makow, showing the symbols used by (so-called ) anti-FA, are identical with those displayed by the communists, when they engaged the Brownshirts, in the run-up to the Third Reich. The commies boast “political power flows out of the barrel of a gun” … so it’s going to be gratifying, watching modern patriots teach them what that slogan really means. You are on the wrong side of this issue, Mark McAffee. You’ll be treated accordingly

  • mark mcafee mark mcafee


    My dad stood and marched with Cesar Chavez in the 1960s….You don’t know who you are talking too when you refer to me. I am a food activist but under it all I am a compassionate humanitarian activist. I have no shame in any of this. No hood for me.

    I will be glad to be quoted and speak to this. I denounce the Racist Nazi jerk that stole the presidency using the biggest stack of lies ever gathered up in one place.

    What drives your heart? Where is your empathy? Where is the Christ in your soul?

    • Gordon S Watson

      aahhh, I get it now, Mr McAffee = one-third of PRESIDENT Trump’s family members hold a US passport along with another one from the Zionist country in which Judaism is the official state religion, and he’s a “nazi”? ! Makes perfect sense, I guess, when you kick into your relentlessly rabid mode, in which your every utterance is punctuated with that word. as for your other, relentless slur on PRESIDENT Trump, ie that he’s a “racist”, that’s laughable. I guess the kneejerk reaction kicks in and you can’t help yourself, eh?

      who cares about what your Dad did, or failed to do, half a century ago. The linkage of that to the Campaign for REAL MILK escapes me.

      As for Cesar Chavez = once one educates himself as to who and what he really was, contrasted with the propaganda we were fed in the ’60s about him, he’s exposed as he comes off as the psychopathic cult leader that he was … a communist agent in the vanguard of Californication

      as to your query “where is the empathy?” Jesus Christ said that he came ‘not but for the lost sheep of the House of Israel. My concern is for the welfare of my own race, descendants of the man, Jacob Israel … white people in this homeland that our God has given to us, not the robbers sneaking in because the hedges of protection around the nation were broken down by your pals, the race traitors in high places. The Apostle Paul said “has any man hated his own flesh?” Apparently you do, Mark McAffee … apologizing for the invasion of America by non-whites – cheering-on those who break the law of the land – you’ve revealed which side you’re on. And you’ll be rewarded accordingly

  • William March

    I don’t understand the anti government tactics used by the food freedom movement .Do we overthrow the government to have a right to get uninspected meat in this country .We should be glad that we do have some food laws ,because if we had no laws a lot of people would be eating maggots in their hamburgers .We have the right to buy from the Amish farmer ,Whole Foods, Walmart ,or Krogers,it’s our choice .As far as the Farm coin goes where is this business located ,have the principals been checked out ,what legal firm represents them ,did they put up any of their own $$$$$ to seed the company.Why do small family farms need this ,do you want Wall Street telling Amish farmers how to run their farm .I would get someone with a strong pair of” glasses” to keep an eye on the $3,000.000.00 BUCKS so it dosent fly away .Thank you .

    • Ken Conrad Ken Conrad

      I’m not anti government and I don’t believe anyone that participates on this blog is anti government… The “anti government tactics” as you refer to them are the natural result of our refusal to capitulate to unreasonable and coercive government measures that interfere with our freedom to make constructive and healthy choices in our lives.

      What I, and I believe others take exception with are these draconian top down policies or measures that are increasingly being implemented by governments in the name of their perception… or their vested interest’s perception of good health, healthy food, sex education, family planning and private property rights, etc. etc. etc.

      Draconian, top-down policies result in atrocious instances of coercive practices. Freedom from government coercion is a fundamental human right and must be protected for all people worldwide.

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