This post has been edited since it first went up, with material removed and added. The conclusion remains unchanged.
A few months ago, I watched a new documentary in Hanover, NH, the home of Dartmouth College, about how scientists from its medical school helped launch an investigation into a connection between ALS (sometimes referred to as “Lou Gehrig’s Disease”) and a common blue-green algae found in many lakes and streams.
The investigation, which began about five years ago, eventually drew in scientists from around the world, and made a convincing case for the connection. I got a very queasy feeling while watching the film, especially when it showed a scene of investigating scientists visiting a New Hampshire lake near to where I hang out a lot, and discovered lots of the algae, along with pockets of people along the lake experiencing a high incidence of ALS.
In other words, activities and natural substances people once considered healthy might potentially be deadly to health. My own response has been to avoid swimming in areas that appear to have algae growing, and to avoid commercial “green” drink mixes, since many contain questionable algae.
I’ve been thinking more about the connection between blue-green algae and neurological disease while continuing to ponder the connection between so-called fermented cod liver oil (FCLO) and illnesses and deaths that are popping up. We’ve seen two individuals prominent in the Weston A. Price Foundation community, who for years recommended FCLO and took it themselves, succumb to serious health conditions in the last few weeks.
Granted, FCLO isn’t anywhere close to as pervasive as blue-green algae. But what’s intriguing, at least to me, is the reaction of health-conscious communities in both these situations. The Dartmouth community approached the potentially destructive connection between blue-green algae and serious neurological conditions with open-minded curiosity. The WAPF community? It loves to demonize conventional medicine, along with the established medical community, yet it pretends that troubling connections between FCLO and serious health conditions like cancer and heart issues aren’t worthy of disclosure and exploration. And health professionals with big followings, some riding the WAPF’s coattails, have similarly failed to act responsibly and alert their followers to the potential dangers.
I have been reading, and re-reading, various writings about natural-health leaders who have connections with FCLO and who were hit with serious health issues. It’s more apparent to me than ever that such connections between FCLO and serious disease deserve close scrutiny and scientific study.
Following up on Rami Nagel’s death, reported in my previous post , I read a touching remembrance by his mother, on Facebook. It included her recollection on the progression of his illness: “Two locks of hair in my possession; one from Rami’s first haircut the other taken before he was buried are all the physical remains I have of my first-born son, Rami, who passed away July 28. He passed away too young. He was only 38 years old but a fighter to the end. The growing tumor in his brain stem was just too vicious attacking his nervous system. First to degenerate was his digestion, then his legs, arms, eyes, his swallow reflex and finally his breathing.”
She indicated that three books he wrote strongly advocating FCLO–Healing our Children, Cure Tooth Decay, and Cure Gum Disease Naturally–generated substantial income: “He taught me to run my business on auto-pilot – the way he is running his. ‘I will retire at 40 and just live off of passive income.’ That was his goal. He was very close to it.”
“He left a legacy of clean natural living,” she concluded.
I’ve been told by a couple of people who knew Nagel well that he thought mercury poisoning had led to his brain cancer, and his challenge was to de-tox. There is no indication he received conventional cancer treatment.
I know of at least three nonprofit organizations, with substantial memberships or followings, that continue to recommend FCLO, without any warnings or notes of caution.
I’ve been a big proponent of our right to choose the foods and nutritional sources we feel are best for ourselves and our families. But I’ve also come to realize, more strongly than ever, that no one has a monopoly on the knowledge of foods that make us healthy and those that don’t. There is just too much we don’t know, and too much theory and ideology substituting for actual knowledge.
For health professionals in a position to influence others, that reality should mean at least providing a warning about the potential dangers of something like FCLO to their followers, especially when the FCLO is being given to children. Not everyone knows about the controversy that has raged over the last two years, or of the troubling illnesses and deaths potentially associated with this supposed nutrient. They deserve to know.
if you’re going to discussiong in which you condone “conventional medicine” wrapping its tentacles around people with cancer, as a journalist, you owe your readership a baseline of the actuarial tables of the outcomes of > cut / burn / poison < versus a] doing nothing, and b ] various alternatives. Compare the hard evidence of the successes of the Budwig Protocol, and Dr William Donald Kelly, with that of multi, MULTI Billion $ cancer industry, which dare not admit it is one of the greatest failures of all time
Thank you David. I enjoy your take on things, even when it’s as challenging a subject at the FCLO controversy.
It boggles the mind why WAPF does not put up a warning, or a FULL disclosure statement, as the FDA requires for cigarettes, alcohol, or ANY drug we see marketed on TV.
Why? It’ a food, not a drug, supplement or regulated substance.
Unless they put it in the category of Absinthe, Puffer Fish and other banned foods (like raw milk, yes it’s on the list) it’s buyer beware.
http://www.businessinsider.com/foods-that-are-banned-in-the-us-2016-11/#3-shark-fins-3
WAPF put up a warning? When hell freezes over.
“Real food” mommy bloggers put up a warning? Not until Sally Fallon approves that.
Thank you David for your usual clarity and wisdom. It is unconscionable to me that WAPF leadership would continue to subject its community–and especially its children(!)–to such a potentially hazardous substance. While evidence of harm is undeniable, including warnings from objective lipid experts, scores of personal testimonials, passionate concern from highly credible community members, and, perhaps most compelling, “common sense” that one should avoid something so revolting to our well-honed olfactory and taste sensory “warning systems.” if there is evidence of FCLO’s benefit beyond a standard placebo effect, I’ve yet to see it. As far as I can tell, FCLO’s only PROVEN benefit is economic to those who sell it.
Human beings are frail, fallible and prone to elevate ego, power, status and money over the well-being of those they influence and allegedly care for. From Bernie Madoff to the current POTUS, the message is loud and clear: be very careful in whom you place your trust… and even more so your health.
Appreciate your comment, Randy. Like you, I have struggled to understand what drives the WAPF and especially its leader, Sally Fallon, to ignore the accumulating warning signs about FCLO. She could, in just a few words, force Green Pasture to either discontinue production or, at the least, issue a strong warning about the product to the many users still out there.
I think all the factors you cite (ego, power, status, $$$) are important. I would add one other: that WAPF has always had some of the trappings of a cult, with Sally as the cult leader. Those trappings have become more pronounced as WAPF has lost many of its less cultish members turned off by the FCLO disaster. Cult leaders tend not to be very flexible or open to dissent, so I’m afraid I am pessimistic about the prospects of substantive change on the FCLO subject at WAPF.
“I have struggled to understand what drives the WAPF and especially its leader, Sally Fallon, to ignore the accumulating warning signs about FCLO.”
Perhaps the same personality trait that has allowed her to ignore and turn a blind eye to what her husband was doing – e.g. http://www.cheeseslave.com/more-details-from-annie-drus-sexual-harassment-at-wapf-conference/
Poor Rami. He was a good person and a friend of mine. May he rest in peace. Peace and blessings to his family — I can’t imagine how hard it is for them right now.
Thank you, David, for continuing to cover this story. You are one of the few bloggers out there with integrity. What I can’t understand is why other bloggers don’t feel a responsibility to even report on this.
I will write an article and link to you. Thanks, again.
Ann Marie
I should mention that one of the pieces I re-read recently was your lengthy analysis nearly two years ago of the FCLO scandal in the context of WAPF history. I was particularly intrigued by your discussion of the death of Deirdre Currie, the wife of Archie Welch (a partner in a supplement company that for the last couple years has produced a fresh cod liver oil), of a pulmonary embolism during childbirth. You also alluded to Jerry Brunetti, a frequent speaker on preventing cancer at WAPF conferences, who died of a recurrence of cancer shortly before your column was written. I saw on a web site about his regimen that he advocated cod liver oil, but it wasn’t clear if he took fermented cod liver oil. These appear to be cases to research further to scope out possible FCLO tentacles.
http://www.cheeseslave.com/my-take-on-the-fclowapf-scandal/
Cancer is an aggressive diease and must be treated aggressively .I am a cancer survivor of 24 years ,I followed the advice given to me and had surgery ,chemo and radiation .I am 75 yrs old and lead an active life.Aperson I knew through business had cancer and she told me she would not let them “put any poison in her body” they buried her shortly after.I recently lost a brother to liver cancer he was a retired FBI agent and lead a “clean life it was too late for him ,he lasted 3 months .You must realize that food is not medicine ,enjoy the food you like but remember it does not create miracles.Thank you.
I think one of the points being made is that FCLO is so rancid that it might itself be responsible for so much illness in the WAPF community. It’s been taken every single day — often in very high doses — by men, women and children. Especially pregnant women and children. These people do so on the advice of Sally InFallible and the mommy bloggers who repeat her words like the gospel.
Whether Rami and others also sought conventional or alternative cancer treatment is unknown. Sadly, many who’ve seen their health go downhill have responded by INCREASING their dose of FCLO.
William March = glad to hear your personal testimony. But you missed the key point, vis = the statistics prove that doing nothing, or, availing of particular protocols, give far, far better outcomes than submitting one-self to cut burn poison. “treatments’ by the medical Establishment. Another error you are apparently entrained, is : that “food is not medicine”. Certainly what’s coming out of the industrial agricultural machine, does not qualify as “food”. Which is why the Campaign for REAL MILK is doing so well – people see good results, often called “healing”
the American Medical Association was started by Morris Fishbein, after Harry Hoxsey refused to sell him the formula for his cure for cancer. Of course, not every alternative therapy works on every individual. But over-all, the sickness industry in the US of A is one of the biggest con-games in all history.
as a matter of FACT, undifferentiated cells all-of-a-sudden coming to life, is a normal function of the human body. Enzymes take care of those cells before they go rogue. And in many cases, such minor tumors exist for years, before they become problematic.
I highly recommend the work of Dr William Donald Kelley, who explained what cancer is. Kelly being one of the many, many geniuses who were demonized/ destroyed by the Cancer Industry because the last thing the Establishment wants, is : a cure. I highly recommend the work of Dr Johanna Budwig, who has the best record of curing = curing = cancer, with a protocol that is too easy, too cheap, too common-sense for the over-educated idiots who run the CancerRacket, to allow to become popular.
Food is complimentary medicine.
Most all of us can agree that the best outcomes from western medicine come from solid execution of conventional protocols plus complimentary use of foods to offset the horrendous toll it takes on our immune systems.
There is real truth to this statement:
Often…it is the cure that kills you…make sure you survive the cure to be able to live a life worth living.
We have seen great outcomes by using solid western medicine coupled with complimentary nutrition. It may be the depressed immune system and the subsequent infection that gets you….often times it is just that!!
That glass of anti-inflammatory bio-diverse GUT Biome rejuvenating raw kefir is not contra indicated as you go through chemo or being treated by anti-biotics. That bone broth is not contra indicated either…
Docs don’t talk about the GUT and our biome as they completely torture our biome in the effort to eradicate cancer cells.
With out a biome we are sitting ducks and welcome mats for secondary infection and subsequent death.
We just need our doctors to embrace a “bigger medical tool box” and start to appreciate the live saving impact of conventional treatments with their negative and very toxic side effects and the positive good that comes from GUT biome restorative nutrition.
That’s a tall order!
Mark: I have a technical question. I was taking my usual Tuesday hike in Sequoia/Kings Canyon. I was headed to Big Baldy when I heard the crash of breaking branches, and saw a black animal through the trees about 100 yards up the trail. Bears are normally much quieter, and soon I saw some white, too. There were three or four cattle, and they were moving pretty fast for cattle, downhill. Up the trail a ways I saw their hoof prints. Horses are very common on these trails, and these prints look similar to horse prints, but more circular (a little shorter and broader). I’ve been to the dairy several times, but never closely examined the hooves. When I get a side of beef with feet (the best for stock!) there appear to be pointy fingers. I know that most mammals have fingers, whether or not they are fused into hooves or hidden in fins. Are the cows’ fingers hiding inside the hoof? Don’t laugh; it’s a sincere question.
Gordon: Also Dr, Thomas Seyfried’s “The Metabolic Theory of Cancer.” Otto Warburg won the Nobel Prize for his discovery that cancer cells have defective mitochondria, which are almost entirely dependent on glucose for metabolism. There is some very interesting research underway using a ketogenic diet in battling cancer (R. D. Feinman has made some interesting posts about this on his blog).
David: What were once called blue-green algae are now called cyanobacteria, and they are responsible for producing 80-90% of the oxygen which sustains life on Earth.
I’m going to dissect the classic troll intrusion you will almost always find at a reader comment section concerning NOT using current medical establishment protocol for cancer treatment – or any kind of disease treatment, for that matter. Stay with me here…
From William March: “Cancer is an aggressive diease and must be treated aggressively .I am a cancer survivor of 24 years ,I followed the advice given to me and had surgery ,chemo and radiation .I am 75 yrs old and lead an active life.Aperson I knew through business had cancer and she told me she would not let them “put any poison in her body” they buried her shortly after.I recently lost a brother to liver cancer he was a retired FBI agent and lead a “clean life it was too late for him ,he lasted 3 months .You must realize that food is not medicine ,enjoy the food you like but remember it does not create miracles.Thank you.”
Cancer is sometimes aggressive, sometimes slow moving, it depends on what type of cancer you have, but it’s always best for trolls to use a scare tactic right out of the shute. He’s a cancer survivor of 24 years. Well, how refreshing that someone is choosing a number more than 10 but less than 25, making things sound quite impressive. “A person” he knew had cancer and wouldn’t use conventional treatment and is now dead, buried and gone. Common course of conversation for a troll to use. And then, not to be outdone by an acquaintance, his brother was also a believer in natural methods (or whatever you want to call using a real food protocol) and, of course, he’s dead now, too. Classic trollese because he also threw in the “he only lived for 3 months” thing. And then comes the clincher – food cannot be used as medicine. Pure trolling rubbish and please don’t believe one word this guy says. There are many ways to treat cancer and people should be allowed to choose whatever path they feel comfortable with, whether they die the next day or not for 50 years. What we don’t need is some FDA troll here pushing their agenda by trying to make people feel guilty if they don’t follow the rest of the lemmings.
GORDON WATSON I don’t think I made any disparaging remarks like calling the med establishment idiots .I was just trying to say cancer is an aggressive diease.Your comments that is better to do nothing about cancer is really misinformed .Statistics prove that medical attention result in better outcomes .Anecdotal evidence such as used by militant food groups is proof of nothing.FYI MORRIS F.was not the founder of the AMA it was established in 1843 Morris was born in 1925,also Harry Hoxley the person that had the “cure for cancer was a coal miner.You also said that unless a person eats the food you say is real food they are not eating good food ,all food is good food and for the most part it is safe food ,thanks to the food laws in this country.As far as enzymes are concerned it’s a pretty complex subject to make general comments about .As far as raw milk it is a food it cures or heals nothing it’s all anecdotal .The raw milk movement was started by Weston A Price fondation and Sally Fallon as far as I know she has a degree in English not nutrition or chemistry .Persons that give people hope with unscientific cures are evil THANK YOU
List
William March: Morris Fishbien couldn’t possibly have been born in 1925. I think he was already editing the JAMA by that time. He was a real quack, though, promoting mercury medicine well into the 1930’s.
Mister March, I’m not going to clutter-up this forum going off on a thread as to the statistical evidence re: success of particular treatments, for cancer. Suffice to say : it’s overwhelmingly AGAINST your pals in the CanceRacket. You’ve got an awful lot to learn
you got it part right, though. Hoxsey was indeed a coal miner ; owning quite a few of them. I strongly recommend you view the video about him, in which he boasts “I’ve got enough money to burn up a wet mule”. Which is why he lasted as long as he did, in his fight with the medical mafia; headed by Fishbein. The clinic Hoxsey started was forced out of the country, and was still going, healing people, long after he died.
Sam Girod sits in gaol tonight, primarily because his salve had bloodroot in it … which was the key ingredient in Hoxsey’s cure = underscore cure = for skin cancer.
William, I know a lot of people who have had cancer, and they all died within a couple of years despite the aggressive treatments. There is only one woman that I am aware of who survived beyond 20 years; she must have had the constitution of Job in order to withstand all the aggressive surgery, radiation and toxic concoction they ravaged her body with. She used to comment and laugh at how she outlived the two doctors that treated her, both of whom died of cancer. In the end the cancer took her life (she was riddled with it), despite having gone into remission many years earlier.
A friend of mine developed brain cancer and died about a year and a half following his diagnosis despite the surgery, chemo and radiation. He commented to me on the insanity of the radiation treatment, how they put him into a room, especially designed to protect the hospital staff, yet it was okay to subject his body to it because he was being treated for “cancer”… then he sort of chuckled! Are you aware that they use specific chemicals in their chemo concoctions when treating brain cancer patients such as polysorbate 80 in order to breakdown the blood brain barrier? This allows for the toxic substances to enter brain and attack the cancer. I jut shake my head knowing that they use that same polysorbate 80 in other drugs including vaccines that contain neurotoxins such as aluminum and mercury… As far as I am concerned any doctor that condones the current cancer treatment protocol as well as vaccines is a quack promoting fake medicine.
Anyone that believes that “all food is good food and for the most part it is safe food , thanks to the food laws in this country” is living in a fools paradise.
William,
Lets have a teaching moment or two. Please do a little research with me.
Look up these EU NIH PubMed published peer reviewed articles and studies. They stand unrefuted by any contrary studies.
Parsifal, Gabriela, Pasture, LMU Dr. Von Mutius, and the latest by Dr. JP Lalles French Paradox raw cheese studies.
These studies provide strong evidence of raw milk and raw dairy prevention for the following diseases:
Colds, ear infections, asthma prevention, excema treatment or prevention, powerful anti inflammatory effects, not to mention treatment of Crohns or UC by bone broth and Kefir.
I beg to scientifically differ with you. Food is medicine. Disregard for this basic Hippocratic principal will doom us all to unsustainable costs of medical sick care. I totally believe in integrated complimentary ( nutritionally based Gut Biome regeneration ) medicine when coupled with solid western protocols. I have seen this approach work over and over again and again!!! Food is medicine for sure!!
Do your home work on this studies then report back to me. Then tell me that food isn’t medicine.
If you like one approach…use of drugs. Then you are really lost in an expensive pharma world of horrible side effects and bad outcomes.
You really do not mean to say that you would choose a colostomy bag or Humira Remacade ( inflammation blocker that also causes known cancer as a side effect ) over some raw kefir and bone broth!!??
Say it is not true ?? Go study those raw milk studies…..I don’t hate doctors….some of my closest frends are docs. I just want them to expand their tool boxes and do more to prevent. Its Farmers over Pharmcists first…then docs with drugs and surgeries integrated with healing foods as appropriate. That’s your best shot at true health and happiness! Food does matter!! It’s the basis of your gut biome! All disease begins in the gut. Another Hippocratic piece of wisdom !
William March: I just checked. Morris Fishbien lived from July 22, 1889 to September 27, 1976, and both ran the AMA and edited JAMA from 1924 to 1950.
My mistake Morris F.was head of AMA by 1925. Sam Girot sits in jail because he would not show any humility or remorse when he was sentenced ,he was found guilty by that time ,and should not have been militant before the judge .WE have a right in this country to vote for leaders that will agree to get laws changed .Hoxley skin cancer “cure” contained caustic ingredients causing burns ,that’s why it was banned .THANK YOU
Oh boy, Mr. March, that is a rich statement. Bloodroot is caustic – – as if chemo, radiation, and all the drugs used during and after surgery aren’t caustic? That’s not even an argument that should register on people’s radar because it’s fat with ignorance.
Mr March : you’ve just given yourself away as an ignoramus = someone who does not know what he’s talking about, and refuses to admit he’s wrong, in the face of overwhelming evidence. You’re coming off as a shill for the FDA.
“Caustic” ? that’s right. That’s why it worked …. the salve he sold, and gave away to those who couldn’t afford it, caused a tumor on skin to wither, turn into scab, then fall off. Harry Hoxsey was curing = curing = people of cancer with a remedy that was proven more efficacious than any thing used by the mainstream Cancer racketeers, today.
“there is a principle which is a bar against all information, proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance : that principle is, contempt prior to investigation”
Herbert Spencer
let’s see if you’re a big enough man William March, to actually get the facts and think for yourself. Start with the excellent precis about Hoxsey by the Health Ranger, at
http://www.naturalnews.com/027020_cancer_AMA_treatment.html
how this links to the Campaign for REAL MILK, is, the FACT that Hoxsey prevailed over the AMA in a court of law, in which the Court ruled that the AMA had used restrictive Trade practices. There is nothing new under the sun : that’s going on today = The FDA and the dairy cartel, make their livings from passing off the image of milk = cooked, denatured milk = while outlawing the competition.
Don Smith Is calling me names the best you can do?,I was just giving my opinion .The only comeback the militant members of the Real Food Movement, the Raw Milk crowd has is to put persons, government institutions and private business ,Monsanto ,etc down if they don’t follow the anecdotal opinions of these confused “Lemmings”. Mark McAfee does not agree with me ,but he did not insult me.
William,
I agree. It is hard to teach, it is hard to listen and it is near impossible to respect those that name call.
In a world where our leader is the champion of bully name calling, lies, a champion of disrespect and never listens….cause he knows it all.
Let us all be longer term citizens and refuse to fall prey to his weaknesses. We will all hopefully outlive his highness and be able to rebuild the shambles he left for us.
Can we be examples and listen, respect and attempt to teach and learn. I know in my life I never fail to learn something even as I have a very time understanding an opposing position.
William you taught me to not get to caught up in my human gut biome raw milk kefir biodiversity world that I love so dearly. I had almost forgotten that there are those that are scared to death with a cancer diagnosis. Fear is all they have and rightfully so. Those good people do not need to be shamed because they failed by some arbitrary nutritional misconduct. No….They need love compassion and effective treatment that heals them.
My goal is the expanded practice of medicine that includes killing the cancer….but saving the human from the immune destroying destruction of the conventional treatment. This is what complimentary medicine is all about.
It is my hope that along with surgery, chemo and perhaps customized immuno-therapies ….doctors will soon prescribe bone broths, raw milk kefir, raw cheese, plenty of sunlight, compassion and loving support. In the end….the cancer will be gone, the gut will still be tact and the human will thrive.
If not….we will all become welcome mats for opportunistic pathogens looking for a weakness to eat for lunch. We can not live unless we survive the cure. For me it is Farmer over Pharmacies….with food first to prevent disease. I am talking about bio active real unprocessed whole foods that build our immunities and prevent disease. Then if needed…..we need a really good doctor with a full tool box that includes “all the tools, technologies and tricks of the practice”.
Thank you William…
yeah, I have to agree with you there, Mr McAffee = your behaviour during the last year, as you stooped the lowest common denominator of vile-ness … sneering and slandering, relentlessly puking-out the foulest names you could come up with, against the candidate for highest office in the land – caused me to lose all respect for you.
yet today, you’ve kicked into Mark-McAffee-does-Miss-Manners-mode … preaching to us about being ” examples and listen, respect and attempt to teach and learn.” Words fail me to explain how double-minded you come off. As old Annie Landers used to put it ; “You need professional help”. apparently your moralist persona does not recall what the ass-hole personality said, last week : that being one of the symptoms of so-called ‘bi-polar disorder’. No doubt Big Pharma has a remedy for that, too
Real food is stuff that comes from nature or farms. Most of what is in grocery stores if what I call “food-like products”. Sure, it’s safe, if by safe you mean it won’t kill you immediately. But by that measure, cigarette smoking is safe too.
I do not see a contradiction between real food and *some* mainstream medicine. Drugs have some side effects, that has to be balanced against the benefit.
WRT cancer, I don’t recall which chemotherapy for which type of cancer it was, but the studies showed a real benefit – lifespan extended a few months. To me, that did not seem worthwhile given the side effects of chemo.
But if I had any type of cancer, I’d want the numbers specific to the treatments offered for it before I made a decision.
And eating real food would be a given along with whatever medical treatment I did or did not choose.
As for the primary topic – I never understood how FLCO was supposed to be fermented. Fermentation means bugs eating carbs and there’s no carbs. I ought some once, in capsule form, and it smelled so horrific that I tossed it. My *cats* wouldn’t touch it. I did not see how it was considered edible.
Gordon S. Watson It seems to me that you like to call persons you don’t agree with names ,did you learn this from Nick Adams? .As far as Harry Hoxsey having a” cure” for cancer using caustic compounds, I think a lot of people can develop caustic solutions that would take the skin off an elephant or rust off a locomotive ,that dosent make them “cures”.As far as the “Health Ranger “I would trust The Long Ranger more and he wears a mask .While I don’t know for sure are you the fellow from Canada that’s against vaccines and taxes?.If that’s is you I can recommend a fellow here in Lancaster to give you some advice his name is Jim Schlosser. Jim is away at the request of the government for the next 46 months, I guess he had some advice for the tax people about the “Mark of the Beast “.He receive 46 months while poor Sam Girot got 7 yrs ,this is not right but Sam got bad advice from the anti government crowd .For your info I have many years experience in hi tech and the pharmaceutical fields . Sincerely and Thank You Bill March
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