We see examples of discrimination in many areas of life, but discrimination against food-borne pathogens? Im afraid so. We have a campylobacter discrimination problem on our hands. Let me explain:
One of the more intriguing results of the U.S. Centers for Disease Control (CDC) study of raw milk illness trends highlighted in my previous post was that more than 80% of illnesses were from campylobacter. Campylobacter is at once the most prevalent of the four main pathogens that infect our food, and has the mildest symptoms. Illnesses generally involve an upset stomach for a few days and then are finished.
Let me quickly add that it’s not me judging campylobacter to be not so terribly threatening. Thats the government passing the judgment by accepting for years, without objection, the fact that much of American chicken is infected with campylobacter (43%, according to a report last year in Consumer Reports(.
Illnesses from tainted chicken are 15 times more common than illnesses from dairy of all types, including raw dairy, according to the Center for Science and the Public Interest (shown in the graphic above).
As for E.coli O157:H7, potentially the most dangerous of the four main pathogen that create problems in our food, it was said by the CDC to be responsible for only 17% of the illnesses in the study. Even E.coli O157:H7 isnt always terribly dangerous, its just that 10% or so of cases turn into hemolytic uremic syndrome, which is a very dangerous condition in which the kidneys can shut down, and tends to afflict children.
My purpose in pointing all this out is to suggest that illnesses from bad food arent all the same, in the CDC scheme of things. Of course, no illnesses are desirable. And producers presumably want to avoid passing on pathogens to their customers. But if youre going to get sick from food, youd rather get campylobacter than E.coli O157:H7. (As I pointed out in a comment following my previous post, the CDC issues all kinds of warnings that raw milk can cause serious illnesses from listeria, but the agency didnt find a single case of listeria in the illnesses it tabulated in the six years between 2007-2012.)
I would argue that if a foods main threat for creating illness is campylobacter, that isnt a terribly dangerous threat. Yet the CDC has said that is raw milks main threat, more than 80% of the time in the rare event of illness.
I certainly wouldnt take the position that the CDC (and U.S. Department of Agriculture) take with campylobacter in chickenjust suck it up and accept it as part of the price for giving corporate chicken producers like Tyson Foods, Perdue, and Foster Farms a break. I would want to figure out ways to reduce campylobacter incidence. The same applies to raw milk.
But the CDC is incapable of taking the same accepting approach to raw milk as it takes to chicken. That is because the agency has a rigid ideological approach to raw milk which can be summed up very simply: ban it. So in the CDC’s politically-driven scheme of things, an illness from campylobacter in raw milk is much more significant than the same illness from chicken. All campylobacter are not created equal.
You wouldn’t believe the things that were found imbedded in the fat of some beef–these were stamped with the USDA seal! BB shot, a hypodermic needle that had broken off, an abscess, etc. I’m so glad that I had my own beef at home. Tyson chicken??? Are you kidding? If given a preference, I’d have taken Perdue chicken over the Tyson slop. I realize I’ve been gone from there almost ten years, but I seriously doubt that people at the retail level have changed any. They’ve been known to do some really disgusting things. Talk to someone who has worked in a restaurant. Those stories never change either, like spitting in a customer’s food because they didn’t like that person.
I can’t speak for everyone, but I think a lot of those who are in some sort of food production with direct sales to the consumer, don’t want anything to harm those who buy from them. Why knowingly jeopardize your business? I know not everyone has scruples, but the majority do, don’t they?
If you eat a little Campy, you are immune for life. That is no different than our government suggesting with great fan fare that we all get vaccinated. Except vaccinations make you very sick much of the time and vaccinations do not work much of the time.
As Americans we should have the right to vaccinate ourselves using natural exposure to pathogens. After all, pathogens are the greatest risk we have for illness. Campy is the is “pathogen lite” and not something that healthy people should worry about. The greatest risk any American can face is a weak immunity. Following Western medical advice will lead you to weakened immunity hell. Conscious consumers will not go down that road and instead would rather take a very small risk of Campy any day.
Remember, 2100 proteins are destroyed by pasteurization. All enzymes are inactivated. All of the food safety systems in raw milk are progressively disengaged with higher and higher heat. ( Dr. Nicole Martin Cornell Listeria study of pasteurized milk contamination and her predicted 670 deaths per year ).
I quote a Vet from UC Davis, that shall remain nameless as per her request….”listeria illness is associated with processed milk…not raw milk!!”
Mary, all of the studies from the EU show the benefits of raw milk…not processed milk.
Starting in February 2015, with the advent of new rapid test technologies just approved nationally, OPDC will be testing our “milk filters” and “testing & holding” all products for six hours. Milk filter testing ( up to 10 x ) is very sensitive to pathogens. We already test all products for pathogen indicators…ie Coliforms, five times each day as per rawmi ramp program. They are so low, it is almost shocking!! OPDC milking 425 cows and getting 1 coliform counts and SPC of 450. Our Phd experts tell us that it is technically impossible to have enough ecoli pathogens in a less than 1 coliform dairy product, to ever cause illness. It is just not possible. With milk filters…this takes food safety certainty to a whole new level of confidence.
If that is not very safe, then we need to redefine low risk and safe.
Merry Christmas to you!!
Mary, lots of people must be eating lots of raw chicken, then, for the number of illnesses to be 15 times that of dairy. We don’t really know, though, do we. Because I’ll bet you the CDC hasn’t done the kind of in-depth probe of illnesses from chicken that it’s done for raw milk.
My investigation of the CDC and other data bases reveals no illnesses from raw butter ever recorded. None….even Food Safety News does not have a case of illness from cow raw butter.
I will ship anyone ( in CA ) a pound of raw organic cultured butter, if they can identify one case of raw Butter illness ( from cow origins ) in the official records of any agency. Remember, a recall does not count. A pathogen detected in someone’s cream with out subsequent illness does not count. I want to find a bonofide illness that was tied directly or raw cows butter with a pathogen found in that butter. All matching!! Merry Christmas!
Have fun searching…I do not think it exists.
http://www.fsis.usda.gov/wps/wcm/connect/ad74bb8d-1dab-49c1-b05e-390a74ba7471/Chicken_from_Farm_to_Table.pdf?MOD=AJPERES
It’s also kinda funny what you said about eating chicken that isn’t fully cooked. I put a chicken in my slow cooker once upon a time. I thought I had put it on low, but instead, found it to be on “keep warm”. That chicken was barely lukewarm for hours, but I didn’t know it until I tried to eat some of it, and wondered why it was still pink inside. I didn’t get sick, and neither did my other half–he didn’t complain either. Keep this in mind though, I processed that chicken myself.
The mindset of those who work for someone is way different than those who work for themselves (malicious things will continue). I’m citing Mark as an example. No matter who agrees with him or not, he is bound and determined to do the best of the best for the consumers. And for my training and experience, all you do is turn me off. What is your ulterior motive? My dairy inspector isn’t even the same anymore in attitude, and recently, talked about raw milk as though it was nuclear waste. I never heard that before. Go ahead, keep pushing for more regulation. It hasn’t worked so far, so idiots double down (yes, I’m talking about the morons in government). You’d think by now, there wouldn’t be anyone getting sick, but that’s simply not the case.
I got this in an email a few days ago, and it was a collection of different photos and such with little sayings. This one looked like a business card. “I’m not saying let’s go kill all the stupid people….I’m just saying let’s remove all the warning labels and let the problem sort itself out.”
As far as the comparison to chicken, I absolutely think that raw milk is held to a higher standard. I know that is true for our farm members. They hold us to a higher standard all around–a higher standard of sanitation, nutritional quality, environmental responsibility, humane practices. That is why they choose to come to the farm for their food, and why the opt out of the industrial food system. And its why many of them, me included, rarely purchase commercially produced chicken. Because a 43% contamination rate, as well as the many other ugly aspects of the poultry industry, is unacceptable.
Also, the cutting board thing is just a no-brainer. Buy a wooden cutting board, take a permanent marking pen and make a M on one side (for meat) and a V-F on the other side (for veggies & fruits). When you’re done using it (each time) wash it first with H202 and then with vinegar and you’re set to go. About once a month I take celtic sea salt and make a rub for my cutting board, too, and then finish off by rubbing with a lemon rind. Nothing cleanses like salt and lemon. I replace my wooden cutting board every 6 months or so. It’s not rocket science.
It would appear convincing people that not all bacteria are bad bacteria is a tough subject – tougher than a 10 cent T-bone.
I think our secret is maybe too simple, clean the board with dish washing soap after using it for meats (soap kills germs or helps wash them off) and then use mineral oil to seal the wood after it dries. I could be wrong but don’t remember my ancestors ever having many cutting board replacements, as I don’t. It could also be due to our immune system strength or immunization / vaccination effect who knows but as long as nobody gets sick…
I obviously wouldn’t feed general urban populations based on that methodology, or run neither a small or large business operation selling to weak immune system populace. We’re only in the business of feeding ourselves well regardless of what works for others.
You be the judge, nobody else can do that for you unless they have ulterior motives same as yours.
Is it just that people don’t actually read what’s written or is it the way we use words that gets things misconstrued so easily and so often? You’ve just proved a point about why I don’t post very often any more.
You are parroting the corporate response to the accusations about unsafe chicken (accepted by USDA, CDC) that the problem isn’t disgusting chicken raised in disgusting conditions, but rather stupid consumers who use dirty cutting boards and don’t cook their meat thoroughly enough. They should know, after all, that Tyson, Perdue and Foster Farms produce a filthy tainted product, and consumers act accordingly. It’s laughable. The chicken producers aren’t even required to include warning labels.
If public health took the same approach to raw milk, then people would be given responsibility for heating the product, and if they got sick, be blamed for not having the sense to heat it, as you are doing here.
It’s “buyer beware” for chicken, but “ban it” for raw milk. The reason? Raw milk producers don’t have the money the chicken producers have to pay off the politicians to get a different set of rules.
I’m not sure home-made butter qualifies. Remember that cross-contamination you were talking about with the chicken? I think Mark was inquiring about dairy-produced butter. And besides, the judge dismissed the Marler-Clark lawsuit seeking damages.
I think you are right, Shawna, raw milk is held to a higher standard. I don’t have a problem with high standards. That’s why I have been supportive of RAWMI–it is seeking to develop high standards and hold producers to those standards. But raw milk (or any food) shouldn’t be held to a higher safety standard simply because its producers can’t pay enough to the politicians to be allowed a low standard (as in the case of the chicken producers). Can there be any other reason chicken producers are allowed to poison people, without even being required to exhibit a warning label?
Now for the prize?? Mary is the only person in the whole wide world that probably does not want my delicious wonderful organic raw butter. I am going to send Michele a gift pack of raw butter. I guess I might have to creative about giving raw anything to Mary.
Nevertheless….thanks to both Mary and Michele for the help. Merry Christmas to all.
Here is an interesting report on Foster Farms, whose chicken sickened more than 600 people over 15 months. What is notable about this article is it uses data obtained via the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) to show that USDA issued more than 200 citations for improper practices (much of it pretty disgusting) against Foster Farms, and nothing was done to even force a recall, let alone shut plants down. Obviously, important people were looking after Foster Farms, making sure it wasn’t penalized for its unsafe practices. Just one of those violations would have had a raw milk producer shut down for months, maybe permanently.
http://switchboard.nrdc.org/blogs/jkaplan/disclosed_usda_documents_show.html
What you should all be doing is buying your chickens and turkeys live and slaughtering them yourselves.
Ken
FDA has finished a four-year review of research, announcing that BPA is safe at the current levels occurring in food, and that available information continues to support the safety of BPA for the currently approved uses.
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2014/12/24/phthalates-bisphenol-a.aspx?e_cid=20141224Z1-USCanada_DNL_art_1&utm_source=dnl&utm_medium=email&utm_content=art1&utm_campaign=20141224Z1-USCanada&et_cid=DM62886&et_rid=776541076
Ken
John
The reports you mention…can you please publish the links here?
thanks,
–bill
I am afraid I’m a bit of a technodinosaur. I Googled ‘Campylobacter in free range chicken’ and read some of the first page ‘hits’…..some science abstracts, some press articles. Hope this helps.
John
Why not just google campy in chicken? ALL type of chickens. You will find articles like this http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/jul/23/-sp-food-poisoning-scandal-how-chicken-spreads-campylobacter who lay no less blame on the free-range or organic chickens as far as campy is concerned, but it has to do with production methods and butchering methods, which they attempted to explain. Those farms (such as Edwin Shank’s) who have their own abattoir do not run nearly the risk of harboring things like bacteria because they aren’t trying to raise millions of chickens at one time (or in less than 6 months to become monster chickens).
And too, although this article makes a point about fully cooking chickens and also does the fear-mongering as far as washing chickens (would you expect them not to – after all, the world of gubmint says so, so it must be true, right?) they also say this: “Its worth remembering that every time we wash down a chopping board we as consumers are being expected to clean up the mess the industry has made of our food.” And that, folks, is the bottom line.
I’m far more worried about fish and other seafoods than I am about chickens. The graphic in David’s current article shows why that is so.
http://montrealgazette.com/technology/science/the-right-chemistry-exposure-to-bacteria-can-help-keep-us-healthy
The article states,
Weve grown up with the idea that dirt is bad. If you drop food on the floor, dont dare to pick it up and eat it. Sanitize your kitchen and bathroom with germ killers. Filter your water. Purify your air. Sterilize baby bottles. Well, maybe all that attention to fastidious cleanliness isnt serving us so well. Maybe our immune system needs the exercise of dealing with microbes Indeed, a study in the Philippines, where sanitation is not what we are used to here, showed that the more disease-causing microbes to which children are exposed, the lower their blood levels of a marker of inflammation known as C-reactive protein by the time they reach the age of 20. For example, having spent time in a place with possible exposure to animal feces during childhood significantly reduces C-reactive protein levels in later life. Somehow it seems that early exposure to germs reduces the risk of chronic inflammation. And such exposure may even reduce the risk of cancer.
Ken
Happy new year!!
Ken
http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=160986
The study’s senior author, Ruth Ley states, “The changes in gut microbes were not related to diet, so we think the immune system or hormones play a role” “In the context of pregnancy, these metabolic changes in the mother are healthy, because they promote energy storage in fat tissue and help support the fetus. Outside of pregnancy, however, these changes can lead to the development of type 2 diabetes and other health problems.”
Now that is, an interesting tidbit of info for those of you who are attempting to exclude spectfic microbes.
Ken
The fact that these changes in gut microbes were not related to diet but rather the possible result of immune system and hormone activity is an interesting tidbit of info for those of you who are attempting to exclude specific microbes from your diet.
Ken
http://www.mprnews.org/story/2014/12/25/npr-coca-cola-dairy
37,000 cows standing on one plot of land…. the dairy cartel has pulled off what Josep Stalin, even with the Red Army at his disposal, couldn’t : collectiv-ization of agriculture in the US of A
I’m sure people will buy it in droves. I think it was Menken who said “No-one ever went broke under-estimating the taste of the American public.” [ ? ] It will take them about a decade later, to figure out they were poisoned neither will I be surprised when the juggernaut corp. tries to copyright “REAL MILK” for the very opposite … it’s ersatz non-food …
all the more reason to underscore the term “REAL MILK” – in capital letters – every chance you get, for whole fresh pure un-cooked milk from cows kept in humane conditions. To confound those who would mis-appropriate and pervert every good thing.
That is hysterical. Sort of.
Bernard was right. It’s not the germ, it’s the terrain. I am a firm believer in this idea. I was thinking the other day about the kids who get HUS (sp?), that maybe their immune systems aren’t up to snuff due to the crap they eat and the vaccines they’ve endured.
At my house, we’re staying healthy so the germs don’t get us. We drink raw milk, homemade fermented foods, eat chicken we raised and processed, eggs from our layers. Non-GMO and organic as much as possible. We are not fastidious about washing our cutting board between foods. I’m 59, my husband 65, kids in their early 20s. So far, so good.
“If you eat a little Campy, you are immune for life. ” We’ve probably had some of that, too!
But even knowing this http://infectiousdiseases.about.com/od/g/a/Sushi.htm doesn’t stop it from being a totally legal food in all 50 of the United States. And, what’s even harder to understand is that people are not afraid to consume it.
It’s gotta be all about the politics.
The person who wrote that first article is, according to the bio at the bottom of the article, a doctor. No idea what kind of doctor but nevertheless, because a doctor supports the idea, that makes it ok I guess. The second article is written by a Ph.D., but nowhere does she suggest that uncooked or undercooked sea foods should be made illegal. Even with a death count to its credit. Chefs made enough noise about not wanting to wear latex gloves while preparing sushi, so right away the bill is off the table or re-regulated or under the table or whatever. Imagine that.
But raw milk, with no deaths recorded, is illegal in more States all the time. If it’s not illegal, the regulators are making it hellaciously difficult for farmers, large or small, to be able to afford to produce it no matter what the price per gallon.
Our medical industry is scared stiff of the health benefits of raw milk. That is seconded by the insurance industry. And thirded by the big dairy industry. It’s not that all campylobacter are not created equal, it’s that all industries are not created equal – some are able to move up the ladder, some are shoved into the ground face first. Pure politics.
http://www.bruker.com/fastscan-bio?utm_source=PLOSBiology&utm_medium=banner&utm_campaign=FSBio
The sterile womb paradigm is an enduring premise in biology that human infants are born sterile. Recent studies suggest that infants incorporate an initial microbiome before birth and receive copious supplementation of maternal microbes through birth and breastfeeding. Moreover, evidence for microbial maternal transmission is increasingly widespread across animals. This collective knowledge compels a paradigm shiftone in which maternal transmission of microbes advances from a taxonomically specialized phenomenon to a universal one in animals. It also engenders fresh views on the assembly of the microbiome, its role in animal evolution, and applications to human health and disease.
Ken
I think this Coke Milk represents an initial effort to glamorize the dairy CAFO. Present it as a New Age sterile laboratory that turns out some kind of super clean and super fortified milk. And, yes, Americans will no doubt lap it up. We love “new” technology. Coke has made billions working with much less.
In general-
If Roberts and Marys immune systems are weak, is that reason to use law to set the stage vis-à-vis food regulations to so screw-up the commonly available food so that Eds and Susans immune systems (which otherwise are dandy and likely to stay that way if not become more robust because of decisions that they make re. food that they eat) take a downward dive in the direction of Roberts and Marys?
It begs common sense to allow that to happen, doesnt it?
Mr. J. Ingvar Odegaard
They tend to ignore common sense.
Ken
Could this idea also fall? Do we have any evidence either way?
“This is the frontier of dairying. In fact, the people who run this place are so ambitious, they’re ready to change milk itself.”
http://www.npr.org/blogs/thesalt/2014/12/25/372664332/inside-the-indiana-megadairy-making-coca-colas-new-milk