Scott Trautman rallying demonstrators outside the courthouse before Max Kane’s court appearance in Viroqua last Monday.Wisconsin’s Department of Agriculture, Trade, and Consumer Protection is signaling that it takes Scott Trautman very seriously, and that it intends to bring the strongest force at its disposal to discourage farmers from following his example of defiance.
Its latest salvo in its war against the outspoken dairy and meat farmer has been to suspend two licenses that allow him to sell meat to consumers. Following on its suspension of his Grade A dairy license in October, DATCP is essentially seeking to deprive him of a way to earn a living, hoping he’ll go out of business and disappear out of the agency’s life.
Trautman says he was given no reason for the suspensions, except he was told that his existing licenses weren’t appropriate, and that he should obtain a food establishment license from his county’s board of health. That would involve adding a bathroom and other upgrades he doesn’t require. He notes that he’s had the two DATCP-issued licenses for six years, without any inspection problems. “There’s no safety issue,” he told me last evening.
The real explanation is more simple, and obvious. “I’m being punished for speaking out” against DATCP’s seemingly arbitrary crackdown on Wisconsin dairy farmers and distributors.
The agency had previously taken away his Grade A dairy license. Consumers had come to his rescue by purchasing much more beef from him than they had previously. “People have been supporting us by buying meat.”
Trautman was so upset by this latest DATCP action that he traveled to the state capital in Madison on Christmas Eve, and attempted to meet with the governor, Jim Doyle, but he was turned down. He remained outside the governor’s mansion in the freezing rain, together with Adam Kane (Max’s brother) for about four hours. He had suggested on his blog that he was chaining himself to the fence around the governor’s mansion and starting a hunger strike, all out of his terrible desperation, but he then decided not to take those actions.
He told me later last evening, from his home, that he decided that such action wasn’t the best for him to take now, but his change of heart didn’t mean he was giving up. “DATCP hasn’t heard the last from me,” he said.
Trautman is frustrated because his only avenue of appeal of the license suspension is to go to DATCP. It’s not likely to be sensitive in reviewing the case. Those on this blog who object to the licensing authority that gives state agencies so much power certainly have a great case for their view in the raw brute intimidation now going on in Wisconsin.
While DATCP is seeking to break Scott Trautman by making it impossible for him to earn a living, its more important goal is to send a message to other farmers: don’t mess with DATCP.
It’s classic authoritarian behavior. The only thing that distinguishes the DATCP approach from the old Soviet Union’s approach to rebels is that there, when individuals spoke out against harassing authorities, the individuals were sometimes classified as mentally deranged, and then committed to mental institutions, where they were given powerful anti-psychotic drugs that often did drive them crazy. All that’s missing here is an effort to commit Scott Trautman to a mental institution. Maybe that’s next?
Actually, the bigger question is this: will DATCP’s latest intimidation of Wisconsin’s dairy farmers and consumers outrage them enough that they go to bat for Trautman? DATCP is clearly counting against that happening.
Wisconsin farmers and consumers have organized the Wisconsin Alliance for Raw Milk, accessible on Facebook, to organize themselves against DATCP. One piece of advice: hold your real deliberations off the Internet, since you know DATCP will be monitoring this Facebook site.
Things appear to be moving in that direction.
"will DATCPs latest intimidation of Wisconsins dairy farmers and consumers outrage them enough that they go to bat for Trautman? "
I hope and pray that they do speak out, loudly.
http://thebovine.wordpress.com/2009/12/24/b-c-regulators-issue-cease-and-desist-orders-against-home-on-the-range/#more-12762
"British Columbia deemed hundreds of gallons of pure whole fresh milk to be a biohazard and sent it down the drain"
No illnesses no complaints and no "bad germs" found! How many in Canada are on food stamps the bread lines of our 21 century?
Can we now say that there is a North American war on raw dairy but no cross border coordination among the attacking war parties?
The idea that the State can make applying for a license mandatory and also write the terms of the licensing contract is false.Look at the Pasteurized Milk Ordinance.The state is authorized to "issue" licenses.That means that no one else can issue a license.It certainly doesn’t mean or say that the state can require a license or decide who is required to be licensed.That is the power of the buyer or herdshare member.If you want to sell grade A milk,the buyer will require a grade A license.Why would anyone want to sell grade A milk these days.That is little better than dumping your milk.
Can anyone on the regulator side show me an act,statute,regulation or law that clearly states that the state can require anyone to apply for a license in order to produce ,or even sell, meat or milk?I do mean an actual written act,statute, regulation or law not someone’s interpretation.If you can find it ,please publish a link to it."A law that is not unequivocal,that can be interpreted in more than one way, is void for vagueness."
When my second milk battle started in 2006 I was mentally prepared to go all the way to find a solution to this controversy here in Canada. I was udderly surprised about the willingness of people to join the fight. No, the issue was not anymore raw milk, it became the much larger issue of finding ones own courage to resist the dictatorship of bureaucracy for the sake of our food freedom or food sovereignty.
It seems as if the raw milk revolution still thinks it can have a revolution which needs to be allowed and approved under the current system. I have no illusion that real sacrifices are necessary (not to be a martyr or a hero ) to signal the authorities that those behind the food revolution are serious.
I do believe that there are key people who can take on a crucial role in this battle.
No wonder Scott got another slap in his face to test his character.
He needs that to recognize his ability to make a difference.
You can do it Scott and Max and all the other courageous friends. These events make all of us stronger more united and honest.
This is not about us, this about our children, our country and our dignity.
Lets cultivate the land, the souls and the spirit of civil disobedience.
There is no other choice left.
Michael Schmidt
A consequence of the numerous challenges to the farmer’s right to produce, provide and for consumers to obtain raw milk is an increase in legal costs in fighting for these rights. If you can, donate to the Farm-to-Consumer Legal Defense Fund:
http://www.ftcldf.org/make-a-donation.html
Will any of you please answer my question:
Do any of you agree that there are two raw milks in America?
One for people and one for the pastuerizer.
Various states have shown this to be true. When a state sets up when designed standards and bacteria testing…that raw milk has been shown to be quite safe.
Raw milk produced under the very loose standards of the PMO is quite different. It is never tested for pathogens and is commingled with other raw milk that is destined to be pastuerized.
Can you all agree that these raw milks are different? I am not asking for an admission that raw milk produced for people is perfect…no food is. I am asking for a consencus that there are two different categories of raw milk.
Please give me an answer to this very basic question. The FDA commingles data between these two categories of raw milks and that does not allow an intellectual discussion of raw milk safety.
Glad to hear that Michael is better.
Mark
——-
"bill marler,
if YOU want to define it as "final consumer," then yes, obviously that’s what i meant.
of course, a "direct" transaction between a producer and a consumer cannot involve anybody other than a "final consumer" because there’s only one consumer, the person who was involved in the direct transaction. a direct transaction by definition eliminates any third party broker or mediator or intermediary.
given this, i’m glad you agree that direct transactions between producers and consumers do not fall within the police powers of the government and thus fall outside of government’s jurisdiction.
hence, all we need is a court to agree with that argument since it seems pretty basic and elementary. in that way we will regain our liberties."
——-
so you see everybody, bill marler and i agree that a direct transaction between a farmer and a consumer should not be regulated by the government.
merry christmas and happy holidays. especially to those who are putting their livelihoods on the line.
"I have no illusion that real sacrifices are necessary (not to be a martyr or a hero ) to signal the authorities that those behind the food revolution are serious."
As others have said previously on this blog, it’s much easier to give up liberties than it is to get them back. We must always pay very dearly to wrest our liberties back. The authorities are now testing whether we are willing to pay the price.
David
I continue to consider myself profoundly blessed – all the incredible people that have come into my life, how absolutely perfect everything but everything has worked out. How’s that? Perfect? Yep. All as it should be.
If their brutality were not this obvious – people would not be outraged, and farmers would not unite.
If I had not been "caught" – I would still be afraid today, silent and feeling terrible about myself. Which I DO NOT want others in hiding to feel — you each have a role – it’s just God has given me certain abilities and it is clear He wants me to use them. I could not have done that from hiding.
With these meat licenses removed: Yet more people join us in this fight; becoming more and more clear what needs to be done.
With my protest at the Governor’s mansion: I learned much of myself. I am ill-suited to standing around. I can’t do it. I am a do-er, and this accomplished the goal of bringing more people into the fight, as well as determining just where the Governor is with all this. I still am profoundly disappointed in him, and I would say humbly if he hasn’t been listening all along – that he has missed my message – of peace – of understanding – of pleading for all of Wisconsin’s family farms – and if his reaction is pushing back from mine – now in anger, then it is me who has failed.
I know "they" look at all I do, and I do ‘announce’ what I am going to do regularly. But I can tell you all this: I am far from done. I’m only getting started. I will use my God given skills to help people. If the Governor is uninterested in the plight of Wisconsin’s dairy farmers, I will move on to others who will.
When I speak and act purely from love – I am heard and I am effective. When I speak from anger – justifiable as it might be – the message is diminished. Mark, I am listening to you, and I am blessed with your example, and I listened to the love in every word and action you have taken.
Adam, Max’s brother, spent the evening at the Governor’s with me. And yesterday, and he too was brought to me to teach me these very things. Again. and Again, as many times as it takes for me to learn them, His infinite patience with me, will put beautiful caring people into my life to guide me, if only in love I will listen.
Bless you all, let’s hit them with all the love in our hearts – that cannot be defeated.
in love,
Scott Trautman – Proud Wisconsin Dairyman
I respectfully request that you change your blog to reflect the true challenger of Lykke. It’s not right to be falsely accused, especially when you are so critical in your accusation.
Not sure why you haven’t done it already, except to thing that either a)you don’t feel it important to actually be correct in your details….or b) your ‘mistake’ was a willful act.
Websites are just files that are read, and files can be changed so I reiterate again….please make the correction.
Although the above question was not addressed to me personally by Mark I would like to give an answer and elaborate on it.
For those who are primarily concerned with the type and amount of bacteria in general terms the answer would be yes. However I would like to add that there are numerous conscientious milk producers producing an equally good quality product despite the fact that their milk is headed for pasteurization.
For me the issue of milk quality rests with management protocol and the overall health of the animal. Bacteria in milk are of little concern to me other then their potential negative effect on flavor. Healthy cows produce healthy milk and healthy bacteria.
I would rather purchase raw milk destined for pasteurization and a little fecal matter floating in it from someone using organic practices, i.e. without antibiotics, hormones and vaccines etc. then from someone producing milk for raw milk consumption using inorganic herd management practices.
As well switching to healthy foods including raw milk will not solve our health problems if individuals fail to become ever more vigilant about meddling or allowing a doctor to meddle with natural processes. This germaphobic attitude is a distraction from the true cause, namely toxic pharmaceutical and biopharmaceutical interventions. Its not merely coincidental that people become seriously ill only after intervention and/or entering a hospital.
Ken Conrad
I’m not sure exactly what you mean with your request that "you change your blog to reflect the true challenger of Lykke…" If you are asking that I block Lykke from commenting on this blog, the answer is no. I have never blocked anyone from commenting on this blog, and I’m not about to start that practice now. I’d say it’s happened more than once that commenters on this blog, I among them, have been "falsely accused." It unfortunately comes with the territory.
David
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6487575410193274157#
The first thing that you need to do is connect to the Wisconsin Raw Milk movement ( and national movement ) with a strategic message and strategic plan.
Strategy means a process that everyone buys into to win!!
That means a long term strategy….not a short term process.
First things first….collect all the email addressed that you can. I have about 80 email addresses collected from the rally. I will send them to you on Monday.
You need to create a core leadership…just four or five people…they need to create a message and a plan to beat DATCP.
My advice…. do not fight with them. Pass new laws instead. If they are anything like CDFA in CA they will not even show up. How can they. They are not supposed to hold a political position. They are just supposed to enforce laws.
So change the laws. Fighting with DATCP is a total waste of time. They are connected to Big Ag CAFO industry and the FDA. Fighting them will make you old and weaken you and not make things better. Change the battle field and take the advantage and the high ground.
Read the ART of WAR…..this is war and you need to remember your karate lessons ( if you ever took any ). When met with a battle tank…it is not smart to challenge it with a bow and arrow.
You need to take your passion and leadership to the state capitol and bring 100 angry moms to bear on the issue. All you need is to focus them as a fighting and educating force. They will win every fight as they teach, teach, teach.I know from personal experience. Angry ( yet mostly behaved ) moms that feel threatened for the loss ( or loss of ) of their raw milk source with healthy kids that depend on raw milk for their treatment of Asthma and ear infections etc…Focuss these warriors on the target.
This is a strategy that is impossible for the DATCP to appose. They will look anti family and anti mom. It is a looser for them. The oposition will be a bunch of tie wearing pencil necks with a market control agenda.
You have three legs on your raw milk stool.
Personal rights to choice of foods. A constituional issue.
A farmers right to connect directly with consumers and sustain his income and family.
Food safety and nutritional issues…you will need to convince the Legislature that raw milk in WI is relatively safe and has superior nutritional value. ( Michigan Workinggroup did this for you ). Data from other states were raw milk is legal will show the safety record.
Then you must be very self controlled and do not let yourself be distracted by anything including DATCP.
You fight is not with them…..they are the Abrams tank.
Your fight is for change and they can not and will not change anything. Change happens with new laws. DATCP is not allowed to fight against you in the legislature….( at least in public watch out because they will try behind the scenes…).
This is one very effective strategy….there may be others. I have reviewed many and spent countless hours developing our strategy in CA.
Be aware of one potential mine field. If the governor is connected to DATCP and they meet behind the scenes..he may veto the bill even if it does pass.
This is your trick card and you will need to pass the bill and make some friends to assure that this does not happen.
Go get um!!!
Mark and the CA gang.
the "on lykke/" part attributes a comment to milk farmer. but it’s my quote. so can you edit the post and change milk farmer to hugh betcha.
thx 🙂
The very exciting news for you is this….a bill is already in the legislature and you have a sponsor.
Now you must create an educational one pager…that the moms can use to educate and rally arround. Each person in your bill group must visit the offices of every one in the legislature and especially those in the committees that will vote on the bill.
You need to get everyone to attend the committee hearings. Do not assume that everyone knows when or where they are.
You must have pins made so all can wear them. You need to be a huge presence.
Rallies on the steps of the court house are all for show…..people jamming the halls and committee rooms of the legislature gets it done….
Focus and chart the passage to your goal….fight on your terms and do not be distracted to fight the Abrams tanks from DATCP only the way.
Ignore them as best you can. This is war….but make it your war not theirs.
In fact…try as best you can to reach out to DATCP to lesson the anger. You do not need them to fight against you in the legislature or the gov office behind the scenes.
Try and convince DATCP that big dairy will sell more pastuerized milk if consumers drink raw milk….Raw milk tends to eliminate pastuerization intolerance ( the new word for lactose intolerance ). Raw milk is good for pastuerized milk markets and brings people back to milk. Soy seems to be gaining market share,…..very bad for pastuerized milk.
Try and convince DATCP that raw milk is the best thing that ever happened to pastuerized milk markets. One can dream about DATCP becoming your allie….but you can try. Negative energy tends to have a reverse effect.
Concentrate like a lazer on the goal….change the stupid laws.
Mark
I’d like to respond to Milk Farmer’s challenge: "Lykke is of this sort, s/he probably works for the FDA and is here on assignment to disrupt. …..
and
All I can say, Milk Farmer, is that you haven’t met many FDA or state public health officials…….
These are the sentences in which incorrect information exists.
Being accused is quite different from being falsely accused, especially when there is evidence, in plain black and white, that the accusation is not true.
When you quote somebody, when you call someone out by name, doesn’t it behoove one to make certain that they are directing their comments accurately?
I wouldn’t hear of blocking anyone from this blog….unless of course they were obviously disruptful… and really would have no standing to even consider requesting that. This is your show.
And while I indeed haven’t met too many Fed or state officials, the good ones that I have, no longer work for the State, having been forced out, or quit in disgust.
i realize i can let weeks/months pass without popping up to earn my coin. i get busy up stream of the bridge tending fields and critters. while i make time to read this blog almost daily most of the constructive stuff i could add is already posted by someone. i don’t like wasting bits and bytes saying "me too" or "i agree" so much.
i’m glad david doesn’t ban me and i hope my additions add at least as much as they take away.
i know i take away way more then i could ever add. and for that i thank everyone here.
My apologies for the mixup on the quote. (Misunderstood Milk Farmer’s request in previous comment in this stream.) I’ve fixed the posting, "On Lykke," so it’s now attributed to Hugh Betcha.
David
This reporter seems a bit irked by the raw milkers victory {temporary?] in the now North American war on raw dairy.
A YUMMIE way to celebrate this victory. To one cup of thick fresh raw cream add 2 shots of Cream De Cacao [do not adulterate by adding ice} stir wait a few minutes until the alcohol kills all the "bad germs" then enjoy. Perhaps the all knowing dressed in black food police from the CAFO cartels might not object to us drinking these dead "bad germs"
A toast is inorder for the victorious raw milkers in SD
There is NOTHING good about the APROVED CAFOs they are a hazard to your health they are odious to their neighbors as well as a grave danger! And neighbors now go to court to try to halt the harm inflicted upon them!
http://famguardian.org/TaxFreedom/Instructions/0.5CommercialLaw.htm#2.%20%20%C2%A0An%20Unrebutted%20Affidavit%20Stands%20as%20Truth
"what’s trendy in California."
Over 40000 consumers and an item that has been consumed for 1000s of years make it "trendy"?
"Very few" of the state’s 400 dairies sell raw milk."
Is this supposed to mean something? Is it pertinent?
"he wants more time to discuss the regulations "with those who produce and consume raw milk."
It is terrific that the state officials wish to actually speak with the farmers and the consumers. That is positive.
"Like most states, South Dakota has its own history of raw milk and cheese outbreaks as the unpasteurized dairy products frequently make people sick from pathogens like Salmonella and Campylobacter. "
Define frequently….
" In 1994, an outbreak linked to cheese made with raw milk sickened 58 South Dakotans."
Oh never-mind..his "frequently" is he had to go all the way back to 1994 for an "outbreak" .
"The "cow shares" scam is sometimes used in Wyoming in an attempt to evade the law. "
Scam? What makes it a scam? Oh I get it, he doesn’t agree that people should be able to consume what they want and since it isn’t his way, it must be wrong…A real American there.
http://www.foodsafetynews.com/contributors/dan-flynn/
On his short profile, I didn’t see where he was leading any causes for chemically induced processed/fast phoods…the frankin phoods, etc….slow poisoning of America
Sort of tongue in cheek but maybe we should present the politians and the lawyers with a notice of understanding of intent to demand they speak truth and all of it not just bits and pieces?
Our food has been pasturize our money has been pasturize and it now appears that the law has been pasturized as well!
As Rob Menard is quick to point out: being free requires us to exercise a much higher level of responsibility.This includes educating ourselves and rather than blaming others for our difficulties we must see clearly where and how we have failed to maintain our status as free men and women."We have met the enemy and it is us".As I have said many times before ,we don’t need to change the law,we need to learn what the law is and speak up when anyone tries to get our permission to limit our god given rights.Of course when we question someone’s claim against our rights we need to have the evidence and witnesses to prove this in court.That is why every interaction between ourselves and government agencies should be through notaries using certified mail.Don’t blame the lawyers either,we can learn a lot from them.
You will never get a response from DATCP when you ask them to support their understanding of the law,because their understanding of law is :anything that they say is law if you agree(by not refuting) that it is.All you need to say is "I will accept that as law when you can show me that it is more than just your opinion."
Dang, I kinda thought hugh betcha was the tall and handsome one, but wasn’t sure.
DATCP has always been afraid of raw milk, predatory toward small dairies, and inconsistent in their interpretation of the law. They are pompous bullies.
Mark, Thank you for defining the popular offense; great guide! (The only thing I would add is read David’s book "The Raw Milk Revolution". He distills the issues involved, and nobody should take this on without either reading his book or becoming a regular on this blog….) Mark, praise and thanks for spending your time energy and money helping everyone in every state who asks for your support. You have always answered, you have always helped. You have taken a lot of arrows, and you still stand as a raw milk hero.
Miguel, Thank you too, for your articulate explanation of our rights. I’m trying to apply this wisdom to our situation in Colorado, but I have some questions:
1. Shouldn’t we attempt to clarify the law so that conflicting interpretations happen less often? If we craft vague laws, we could be subject to ongoing challenges. I’d like to dust off our hands – regulators included.
2. Clear budget priorities for regulators would help them decide which problems to go after, and which to dismiss as an isolated, limited "outbreaks". Shouldn’t legislators establish guidelines for regulators, so they aren’t spending vast amounts of money on a teeny-weeny public health issue, while letting the big ones get away?
(it’s so easy to shut down a small dairy but so hard to wrangle Big Ag processors in – imagine if they mandated grassfed, no-grain beef…Oh my! Never in our wildest dreams! But I digress…)
Maybe what we need to specify in the law books is "Regulators are not responsible for monitoring direct farm-to-consumer products"? "There will be no budget allocated for farms that process less than x amount of milk"?
3, What about liability issues? We’ve got food-poison lawyers. We have consumers that are in delicate health and are poorly educated. Our whole society is run by Big Gov’t and Big Pharma, who love to propagate fear of germs. I just can’t see farmers standing up to all that without clear legal protection. Year after year?
I love what you say about responsibility and interpretation of law, but dang, most farmers would fold if they had to choose between a paper chase and a farm chase.
(A "chase" is a plot of land, in some dictionaries. I like that.)
-Blair
Below is a direct link to the aritcle explaining the state created "person" which is not a man not a woman nor a human being. Legal trickery at its worst?
State Created Office of Person
http://famguardian.org/Subjects/Freedom/Sovereignty/OfficeOfPerson.htm
Thanks again Miguel for the link to that info.
As far as clarifying laws,make sure you understand and keep to the intention of the Commercial Law.
" In the Laws of Commerce, the eternal and unchanging principles of the law are:
1. A workman is worthy of his hire. Authorities: Exodus 20:15; Lev. 19:13; Matt. 10:10; Luke 10:7; II Tim. 2:6. Legal maxim: It is against equity for freemen not to have the free disposal of their own property.
2. All are equal under the law (Gods Law-Moral and Natural Law). Authorities: Exodus 21:23-25; Lev. 24:17-21; Deut. 1:17, 19:21; Matt. 22:36-40; Luke 10:17; Col. 3:25. Legal maxims: No one is above the law.; Commerce, by the law of nations, ought to be common, and not to be converted into a monopoly and the private gain of a few.
3. In commerce, truth is sovereign. See Exodus 20:16; Psalms 117:2; John 8:32; II Cor. 13:8. Legal maxim: To lie is to go against the mind. Oriental proverb: Of all that is good, sublimity is supreme.
4. Truth is expressed in the form of an Affidavit. See Lev. 5:4-5; Lev. 6:3-5; Lev. 19:11-13; Num. 30:2; Matt. 5:33; James 5:12.
5. A matter must be expressed to be resolved. See Heb. 4:16; Phil. 4:5; Eph. 6:19-21. Legal maxim: He who fails to assert his rights has none.
6. An unrebutted affidavit stands as truth in commerce. See 1 Pet. 1:25; Heb. 6:13-15. Legal maxim: He who does not deny, admits.
7. An unrebutted affidavit becomes a judgment in commerce. See Heb. 6:16-17. Any proceeding in court, tribunal, or arbitration forum consists of a contest, or duel, of commercial affidavits wherein the points remaining unrebutted in the end stand as the truth and the matters to which the judgment of the law is applied.
8. He who leaves the field of battle first (does not respond to Affidavit) loses by default. See Book of Job; Matt 10:22. Legal maxim: He who does not repel a wrong when he can occasions it.
9. Sacrifice is the measure of credibility. One who is not damaged, put at risk, or willing to swear an oath on his commercial liability for the truth of his statements and legitimacy of his actions has no basis to assert claims or charges and forfeits all credibility and right to claim authority. See Acts 7, life/death of Stephen. Legal maxim: He who bears the burden ought also to derive the benefit.
10. A lien or claim, under commercial law, can only be satisfied by one of the following actions. See Gen. 2-3; Matt 4; Revelation. Legal maxim: If the plaintiff does not prove his case , the defendant is absolved.
10.1. A rebuttal Affidavit of Truth, supported by evidence, point-by-point.
10.2. Payment.
10.3. Agreement.
10.4. Resolution by a jury according to the rules of common law."
"The common debtor Citizen, or someone interested in the rights of American Citizens did not write the Uniform Commercial Code or its predecessors, the Law Merchant or The Negotiable Instrument Law. The history of this Code shows that it was originally created by barbarians to codify and give the semblance of legality to robbery by the creditors! These documents were written by and for the benefit of creditors, without any separation of powers protections, without due process for the debtor, and without respect for any equity the debtor may have invested in property that the creditor may seize XE "ENFORCEMENT:Seize" . "
I am in favor of legislation that clearly puts limits on de facto government power(doesn’t The Constitution do that clearly?),but you have to realize that the legislatures are in the business of giving"the semblance of legality to "robbery" by the creditors."
Liability.Liability is all about responsibility.I am taking responsibility for my actions and I expect others to do the same.When someone contacts us and wants to get milk we do give them a grilling about their motive.If they aren’t well informed and very determined and willing to take responsibility for their actions,we discourage them by disclosing all of our insane beliefs.Recently someone asked if there was an agency that certified us.I said yes,that would be you or someone that you pick to certify us at your expense, of course.To make their responsibility even more clear,we insist that they are responsible to provide and fill their own container and that if they do get sick,the first thing to suspect should rightly be the cleanliness of their own container.We very effectively discourage lots of people from trying raw milk.But for people like us who can’t live on food from the grocery store,it would be a violation of our beliefs to not share it with those who are recklessly determined to have it.
http://www.intelihealth.com/IH/ihtIH/WSCHN001/24479/36146/1340409.html?d=dmtContent
I guess the FDA can not refute this one…
There is a very basic question that looms over us all. That question is unanswered by Lykke CP and Bill Marler.
Are there two raw milks in America??? Is it possible to create by regulation, testing and conditions a fairly safe raw milk? Or are all raw milks the same level of safety regardless of the standards applied. Why can I not get an answer to this basic question?
Also…..there is a real "catch 22" with the FDA regs on medical claims for whole food.
If only drugs cure disease and all drugs must have FDA approval and presumably all drugs have NASDAQ stock investment and patents that pay for their speculative home run cure claims…then it will never be possible to get a medical claim for a whole food ever approved by the FDA because a whole food is not patentable and therefore there will never be any money to pay the FDA fees and whorish research fees for such an approval.
The FDA has devised one hell of a system to exclude foods as a cure for anything when in fact they are highly effective as shown by the Harvard Link above ( and a ton of other studies ).
Mr. Sheehan when your time comes and if you want to have something relevant to excuse your behavior when you meet St. Peter….. you should act now to correct this horribly destructive FDA policy. There is no way in heaven or hell you will ever get through the great Karma gates with this kind of blood on your hands. Read the Harvard study….I hope it keeps you up at night. Raw milk has zero side effects….your FDA drugs kill tens of thousands per year!!!!!
For your information….raw milk ( and fermented raw milk ) contains all the bacteria used in the Harvard study plus so much more. Your own Complimentary Medical ( CAM NIH ) Website says the same thing.
Sheehan….it is time for a talk….how about some raw milk and cookies at the Whitehouse with Michele.
Mark
http://content.usatoday.net/dist/custom/gci/InsidePage.aspx?cId=azcentral&sParam=32403857.story
I just love how someone with any point of view can be found on any subject. Case in point, a farmer, who also happens to be a vet, apparently he doesn’t see what the big deal is with all the antibiotics. He thinks their harmless. Here is his exact words in the collumn:
"If there was some sort of crossover between the use of the antibiotics in animals and the antibiotics in humans, if there was in fact a real issue there, wouldn’t you think we would have seen it?" said Rowles, also a veterinarian who sells 150,000 hogs a year. "That’s what the science says to me."
I LMAO. Oh the stupidity. Either he has his head, no his whole body, in the sand or he just doesn’t read very much. Anyway I had to laugh 🙂 Who said that you will never find what your not looking for (or intentionally looking the other way)?
The main person in the article is the pig farmer that was in the movie Food, Inc who was gored by one of his pigs and almost died because he had an infection from the wound that none of the current antibiotics would touch. As more and more time goes on, evidence will overwhelmingly indicating that our current accepted methods of mass producing food aren’t working as they should.
Cheers, Brandon
I actually think there are 4 categories of milk:
1. CAFO milk intended for pasteurization
2. Organic milk intended for pasteurization
3. Raw milk intended for raw consumption
Sold on the farm
Sold retail
Cow share program
4. Raw organic milk intended for raw consumption
Sold on the farm
Sold retail
Cow share program
A considerable amount of time could be spent discussing each category of milk. I think everyone would agree that the milk in categories 1 and 2 are intended to be consumed after pasteurization and therefore would not encourage anyone to consume this milk raw. The pathogen count could be very high.
The raw milk in categories 3 and 4 are intended for human consumption without pasteurization; raw milk advocates strongly support the use of this type of milk when all safety measures have been followed.
There does seem to be a loophole involving category 2 milk. Mark, can you explain why it is O.K. to outsource from an organic dairy whose milk is intended for pasteurization and then sell it raw, for example, in the form of colostrum, butter and cheese? Isnt that a bit dangerous? You know.deadly pathogens.
As for the Harvard study, it was about the use of probiotics, not raw milk. This study supports what I have said in the past–probiotic supplements help boost the immune system. If a person has health/digestive issues with pasteurized cows milk, consuming raw milk is not the only answer. Milk can be replaced with almond or rice milk. Add a high quality probiotic to the diet, along with pasteurized kefir and yogurt, and the immune system will now be provided with the good bacteria it needs. Obviously, eliminating SAD and consuming a whole foods diet is equally important in regaining ones health.
Heres an informative link for the blog The Nourished Life. However, until there has been a study confirming that raw milk kefir or yogurt kills pathogens, I would boil the milk first before I made kefir and yogurt.
http://thenourishedlife.blogspot.com/2009/12/its-gut-feeling-benefits-of-gut-flora.html
cp
Here are two important milk classifications:
1. My milk
2. Your milk
Your milk may be provided by or produced by a friend or a faceless corporation. It may be pasteurized, homogenized, de-constituted, reconstituted, fortified, imported, local, organic, bio-dynamic, raw, high butterfat, low butterfat, tested, re-tested, whatever.
In other words, you may, in your own mind, define this or that milk or microbe or process as healthful or deadly, and then search out whatever sort of milk you want.
Me too.
Thanks so much…now we have some real dialogue.
Class 4 products ( cheese and raw butter ) are aged for 60 days and or have a different "water activity" and chemical makeup that protects against pathogen development. These are not my conclusions. This is CDFA regs and science talking. I believe, just as the regulations specify, that raw milk that is made into aged raw cheese or raw butter is not close to be considered anything like fluid raw milk which is a class 1 product.
CP, I agree generally with your classes of raw milk, but in general terms would you also agree that there is "raw milk for pastuerization and raw milk for people" regardless…..would you also agree that it is not helpful to merge all of these classes together and treat all safety issues with raw milk the same. This merging of classes of raw milk does not allow the understanding of the origins of safety issues.
Lastly….I sincerely compliment CDFA and the CA Milk Pool. Today we ( all interested producers and processors in CA ) received notice from CDFA that all fluid class 1 raw milk that is uiltized for human consumption in raw form will be exempt from milk pool assessments. This comes after seven very long years of arguing and fighting and litigating and even trying to pass a new law. CDFA acting on its own changed the internal policy and did the right thing.
I live and produce raw milk in a great state….
Thank you CDFA and CA Milk Pool for settling this issue reasonably, fairly and finally.
CA stands far above the rest of the USA on raw milk issues and opennes and it is my hope that the example shown here can be adopted and emulated elsewhere especially in Wisconsin.
Mark
You are the designated and embraced raw milk hero, and the face of this movement per Blair and all your fans.