If you look through the web site of the Centers for Disease Control for statistics on the number of food-borne illness occurring each year, you find different numbers—6 million, 14 million, 76 million. I was trying to pin the number down in connection with an article I wrote for The Boston Globe Sunday Magazine, published yesterday, and a CDC spokesperson who specializes in providing info on foodborne illness was firm: the CDC’s preferred number is 76 million.
This is the same CDC that provided data last year under a Freedom of Information request by Pete Kennedy of the Weston A. Price Foundation showing that between 1973 and 2005, the number of illnesses from raw milk never exceeded 351 in a single year (2001), and averaged 59 over those 33 years (in some years, there were no illnesses).
Now, the CDC statistics don’t tell us in either case how many victims are children, but let’s be very conservative and say iin the case of overall illnesses, t’s 10%. That would be 7.6 million children becoming sick from foodborne illness each year. Now let’s be off the wall and say that all the raw milk illnesses affect children (which is almost certainly not true). That’s 351 in a single year. Talk about orders of magnitude.
So when concerned citizen tells us breathlessly (following my post about the grand jury investigation into Organic Pastures) that because there were two outbreaks of illness in Washington from raw milk, we should outlaw raw milk for children, there’s a disconnect. I have no problem if concerned person won’t allow his/her children to eat cantaloupes or tomatoes or spinach—that’s everyone’s choice. But to suggest that raw milk is so much more dangerous than such foods and therefore should come be prohibited for children—like cigarettes and alcohol—has no rational basis.
I tried to explain all this in my article yesterday—that our public health and medical establishments continue to operate under assumptions stemming from outbreaks of illness a century and more ago. The reality today, thanks to refrigeration, improved sanitation, mechanization, and a serious commitment to quality by a segment of dairy farmers, is much different, and much less threatening.
The CDC doesn’t seem to know which foods cause the 76 million illnesses, but based on various studies, the main culprits are deli meats, hamburger, seafood, and various prepared foods from restaurants and fast-food outlets. I don’t hear anyone proposing to prohibit children from consuming any of these foods.
But the drumbeat against raw milk continues. Even without laws to the contrary, you have the medical and public health establishments trying to terrify parents from serving their children raw milk, or mothers from consuming it while pregnant. The result, as I describe in my Boston Globe Sunday Magazine article, is that parents lie to their doctors and otherwise try to low-key the fact that they serve their children raw milk.
On the other side of the issue, Massachusetts dairy farmer Terri Lawton (pictured above, shrouded by steam, cleaning her milk storage equipment) tells me that over the last two years, “One of the things I’m proudest of is that probably ten women got pregnant while drinking my raw milk and gave birth to healthy babies.” I think Dave Milano is onto something in his comment on my previous post that it’s difficult to deny the power of an idea.
I know I’ve seen this before. Amazing that facts continue to be skewed and people misled. Thank you David and all others who bring forth the information and updates on the issues. It is appreciated.
For whatever reason, on this blog, there seems to be a complete avoidance of the facts about recent E-coli 0157:H7 outbreaks involving raw milk. One was an unlicensed cowshare program and the other involved a dairy that sold its milk in stores.
On this blog, why is there a lack of acknowledgement that these outbreaks occurred?The majority of victims were children.
These children had all been drinking raw milk. Why weren’t their immune systems helped. They couldn’t fight off this pathogen.
What do you think their parents would say about raw milk consuption [for children] after experiencing this type of illness in thier children. Is it worth the risk? I bet they would say no.
I found the following information on Bill Marlers website. He represented both families.
Dee Creek Farm
In early December 2005 public health officials in Clark County, Washington became aware of four children who resided in the county who had been diagnosed with E. coli O157:H7. Clark County Public Health (CCPH) notified the Washington State Department of Health (WDOH) of a possible outbreak on December 8. By December 9 county officials suspected that all four children had acquired their infection by consuming unpasteurized milk obtained from Dee Creek Farm, a small, unlicensed dairy located in neighboring Cowlitz County. The following Monday, December 12 health officers at the Cowlitz County Health Department (CCHD) issued a health advisory to area health care practitioners and clinics alerting them to the outbreak. By December 14 the number of ill persons had risen to 11 persons, including 9 children between the ages of 5 and 13. Of the five children who had required hospitalization, four remained hospitalized and were in serious condition after developing HUS (acute kidney failure). All 11 individuals had consumed unpasteurized milk provided by Dee Creek Farm.
The Washington State Department of Agriculture (WSDA) conducted three on-site visits to the farm. Numerous samples were collected and tested for E. coli O157:H7 at the WSDA laboratory. E. coli O157:H7 was detected in 7 samples. Two milk samples were positive for the bacteria. Four environmental swabs were positive. These were taken from a mat in the milking area, the muddy area at the entrance to the milking area, and mud on the ground just inside of the door to the milking area. PFGE analysis was conducted on the 7 isolates obtained from culture of the environmental samples and compared to PFGE results of isolates obtained from ill humans. Test results of human and environmental samples were indistinguishable by analysis with two restriction enzymes.
Grace Harbor Farms
On September 25, 2006 Public Health Seattle and King County (PHSKC) epidemiology staff was notified of a positive laboratory result for E. coli O157:H7 at Childrens Hospital in Seattle. Subsequent investigation determined the sickened child had consumed Grace Harbor Farm raw milk. The report coincided with a report of an E. coli O157:H7 infection in a old child residing in Snohomish County. Prior to symptom onset on September 19 the child had also consumed raw milk produced by Grace Harbor Farm. The Washington State Department of Health (WDOH), joined the investigation. Public health investigators learned that the strain of E. coli O157:H7 that caused the Seattle childs illness was indistinguishable from the strain that had infected the Snohomish County child as determined by pulsed field gel electrophoresis (PFGE) analysis. The strain was different from other strains that had been seen recently in Washington or nationally. On September 28, 2006 the WDOH issued a news release informing the public of an E. coli O157:H7 outbreak connected to Grace Harbor Farm milk. Multiple environmental specimens collected at Grace Harbor Farm would test positive for E. coli O157:H7. DNA testing would show the strain of E. coli O157:H7 found on the farm was indistinguishable by two enzymes to the strain that infected both children. The outbreak was reported to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) as outbreak number 11466 on October 24, 2006.
This information can be found in the CDCs , April 2005 report called, Epidemiology of Escherichia coli O157:H7 Outbreaks, United States, 19822002
the point of this blog (if you even care) is freedom to choose. i don’t care what you want for your children, why do you care about mine?
did you even read the post you commented on? do you think anyone here cares that "you teach health" personally i don’t. mainly i feel sorry for you as you seem to want to live in a sterile (gov’t guaranteed safe) bubble.
odds are that that bubble you seem so insistent is right for everybody, or at least all of america’s children will make you cronicly ill or even kill you.
good luck to you and yours, i don’t think you really understand human health at all…
On this blog, why is there a lack of acknowledgement that these outbreaks occurred? The majority of victims were children."
I don’t think I avoid the issue that raw milk can carry pathogen risks, though I do think that properly produced, the risk potential is there as it is with any food that is a rich source of nutrients for bacteria, but quite low, especially in comparison to many other foods that are more commonly consumed. I think the risk is much, much higher in processed protein foods and raw produce, not just of illness, in all the associated problems of investigating and tracing processed foods, as well as delay of reporting, in confusion on recalls, etc. I try to choose foods that have had minimal processing and handling, with a short farm-to-table route. Raw milk fits in that category. I made inquires about who sourced the TJ private label organic pasteurized milk I used to buy but TJ would not provide details (lack of any transparency). That didn’t inspire my confidence in TJ milk.
For several years I’ve been reassessing what I automatically consider "risky" or "safe"; getting in the car is the riskiest thing I do, statistically. The same is true for my son. I think people tend to mentally minimize familiar risks and over-inflate unfamiliar ones. Sort of like anxiety about "stranger-danger" but most kids are harmed by people known to them, often trusted. There is probably some protective mechanism in the way we underestimate very high risks and overestimate low risks, but it can be very irrational, too. That is true for just about everyone. Otherwise we would never make a move for fear.
I am not convinced that the raw milk is indeed what sickened the children in the 2006 CA outbreak, but I’m not 100% convinced it didn’t, either. I’m open to new evidence. But either way, my family was drinking the OPDC milk in the same time frame as the sick children and we didn’t get sick, so that bears heavy weight when I consider the issues. If our milk was contaminated, it did no harm to us, though admittedly, we had already been drinking it about a year. Details of two of the children and what they typically consumed were provided by their mothers on this blog much earlier and while neither child was described as "unhealthy" prior to becoming sick, there were dietary and potential health factors for those two that didn’t sound like optimal "immune-promoting" factors, either.
When I first tried raw milk a few years ago, I didn’t give it to my son, my only child (then about 7 yo) until I had consumed raw milk for one month and after a lot of thinking and learning, not just about raw dairy, but about all our food choices. Not only was raw milk not at all what I was expecting, it was much, much better tasting than conventional milk. I had never been much of a milk drinker, even though I grew up with milk or water as a beverage, perhaps because my mother only bought watery skimmed milk. But the creamy whole raw milk was incredibly delicious and enjoyable to consume. I’ve had great success making yogurt, ice cream, and fresh cheese with raw milk.
My husband tends to leave the food choosing, nutrition decisions, and cooking stuff to me, but I did get him involved in the decision process before providing it to our son (having been indoctrinated in the "germ theory" I wanted a sounding board for the pros and cons). We reviewed the info I had gathered on on raw milk, its history, and what he knew about pathogens, bacterial competition, and the importance of inoculating and maintaining good gut flora balance for strong immune function. My husband is a research scientist in biochemistry (though he does not work an anything remotely connected to raw dairy or food), he’s originally from the UK (a great dairy nation), and he knows a lot more than I ever will about microbiology and immune function. So you can imagine I value his input. Together we came to the conclusion that if we could get it from a good source, fresh raw milk was a good option for us, perhaps better than conventional adulterated milk, all things considered. I think the deciding factor was after leaving a half glass of milk out on the counter for several days with a paper towel over the top. The milk cultured on its own, separated, then turned into a sort of cheese and was still edible, something one can never do with pasteurized milk. So we started serving raw dairy to our son. He loved it. He never had disliked milk, but for years he could take it or leave it. With the raw milk, he was finishing every glass and asking for more. During the 2006 recall, he could tell the difference when I bought conventional milk and on his own he stopped drinking milk, preferring to wait for the "good milk".
Do I think some folks go overboard on the infallibility of raw dairy or the hyperbole about the benefits? Sure. But I don’t think that most of the pro-raw milk people who comment on this blog avoid the issues of pathogen potential, nor do I think I do. We have thoroughly discussed these issues over and over for the past many months and gosh, has it been years already? I can imagine that any new readers would not know how many stones have been unturned here. There is a different assessment/perspective of the risks and issues than from the actively anti-raw dairy folks, though.
I choose to give my family the foods and drinks that I believe fuel their bodies and build their immunity the best. Other choose to give their families fast foods and other false products, not caring or even imagining what it does to them in the long run. That’s their choice. I’m not demanding fake food products be removed, even though they sicken many more people per year than raw milk ever has or will. I simply vote with my dollars, and how I raise my children.
This is all over the money. "They" don’t want us to be able to choose natural, God made foods. It’s their way, and their way only. If we don’t follow along, we won’t get the chronic, wasting diseases that line their pockets for 50-60 years while we slowly suffer and die.
No, thanks. I’ll drink my milk raw and my food genetically pure. The nanny state may not control my menu.
Note, I am a raw milk supporter and believe that (non-industrial) raw milk — on a volume basis — is safer than industrially produced, processed, and distributed milk and food.
E.coli is everywhere and we can’t avoid it.
Every raw vegetable you eat will test positive for some form of e.coli.
We are very aware of the potential. But should have the choice to make our own informed decisions.
That is why I must pick a small nit with David who said, "The reality today, thanks to refrigeration, improved sanitation, mechanization, and a serious commitment to quality by a segment of dairy farmers, is much different, and much less threatening." Actually, the old, decentralized way was the least threatening model of all, when quality was simply there, without our help. While hypersanitization of a centralized dairy farm in a mechanized system can afford a measure of safety, a return to the old way of decentralized productioncows on green grass in the open air, with the least possible amount of processingis where we find both safety and optimal health.
I think that when the idea that natural, unprocessed food makes us healthy reaches critical mass, the big-ag producers will have only the "modern, hyper-clean mechanisms" thread to hang from, and that that will therefore become the new business-government mantra. "Trust only our systems," they will say, and it will likely ring true with us, since we have already been so very well trained to accept the notion that modern systems can save us. That is, I think, the mindset of concerned person, who cannot accept raw milk illness so wants to regulate it away, but shows no sign of supporting bans on cantaloupe or spinach, or for that matter any pasteurized or irradiated product that has sickened us. The difference? Raw milk is, well, raw. It has not been pushed through a modern, mechanized, technologized, safety-producing system.
And by the way, I would like to add my thanks, along with so many others, to David, for carefully following and reporting on these issues.
The fact is that pasteurized milk is never even considered as a possible culprit in foodborne disease until every other stone has been turned. Witness the recent deaths in Massachusetts and the length of time it took to uncover the cause. When we talk about statistics, this is something to consider as well. Pasteurized milk illnesses are essentially invisible.
I do recognize the risks of raw milk. I also have experience with illness brought in a container of pasteurized milk and it was awful. But the risks of excess sweeteners, to my mind amd experience, outweigh them all.
So my children and I have a yogurt drink sweetened with a little maple syrup as an after school snack, but the bulk of our dairy comes from raw milk.
Heh, my mother and stepfather, 85 and 90, respectively, have been drinking my goats’ milk exclusively for five years and have NEVER been sick… in fact, they’ve never been healthier! Neither has had any colds or flu for the last five years.
My customers also say the same thing… neither they or their young children (from 1-11 years old) get colds or flu anymore since starting with REAL milk.
WAPF has it right… let’s stop calling it "raw" milk, and call it what it truly is: REAL milk.
Our exchange from that posting is quoted here at length (the Mead study which MP quotes is a CDC scholarly essay available at http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/eid/vol5no5/mead.htm and is the source of the 76 million estimate for annual food-borne illnesses):
PREMISE:
"I will assume there is indeed only 60 confirmed cases of foodborne illness due to raw milk but the CSPI database shows several outbreaks with more than a hundred cases in the past few years.
So… 60 confirmed cases as you claim. The factor to use to arrive at the total number of cases is about 30 (Mead et al., 1999; combining the factors for nontyphoidal Salmonella and E.coli O157), that gives us about 1,800 per year.
Let’s say there is 500,000 Americans drinking raw milk at this point, although that;s probably a little exaggerated.
That means there would be about 86,000 total cases per year if 24 million were to drink raw milk. This includes only foodborne transmission and not person- to person transmission that would also occur.
If everyone were to drink raw milk, that number would baloon to about a million each year.
That’s a lot. And I was very conservative in my calculations, assumed that your 60 per year is correct and assumed that the number of cases would go up in a linear fashion."
RESPONSE:
"MP – you have utilized one of Mead’s highest multipliers when you choose 30 times 60, to yield 1800. Nevertheless, in the spirit of accomodating dialogue, I adopt this math which yields your 86,000 projected cases on a base of 500,000 raw milk drinkers. This yields a projected sickness rate from raw milk of just over one-tenth of one percent of Mead’s 76 million cases of food-borne illnesses each year in the US. If there are only half as many raw milk drinkers (250,000) the rate for raw milk "jumps" to two-tenths of one percent. CDC reports that all kinds of milk, pasteurized and raw, consistently account for less than one-half of one percent of all foodborne illnesses each year (with typically, no deaths except for the blip last year with four from pasteurized milk). Assuming all milk accounts for 0.5% of all foodborne illness, and the share of that which comes from raw milk/raw milk products (including suitcase cheeses) is just over 0.1%, then this math demonstrates that pasteurized milk is approximately four times as prevalant a cause of food-borne illness than is raw milk. And since there are no deaths in recent years from raw milk, it is infinitely less likely to kill you in any given year in which there may be even one death from pasteurized milk.
"You mention a possible multiplying effect due to person to person transmission. I’m unaware of statistics on person to person transmission, and Mead does not mention the factor in his careful analysis. In any case, I’m sure you don’t argue that person to person transmission is somehow more likely for raw milk than it is for any other foodborne illness outbreak.
"We are hardly talking about an epidemic now, and obviously, if everyone drank raw milk all of the numbers would change, so that cannot be projected. In any case, rest assured, that most who drink raw milk would not be so foolish as to drink it from a supplier who had just switched over from conventional feeding and production techniques. If your campaign is to serve public health and help people to make informed choices as you say, then again, I would encourage yours and other agencies to work with raw milk advocates both to broaden the benefits of nature’s perfect food to the 24 million who we believe might benefit from being able to consume it (isn’t regaining eroding milk drinkers what the "Got Milk?" campaign is all about?) and do it carefully and responsibly."
I see that you are becoming frustrated at my perception and opinion regarding raw milk. Personal insults are not necessary and are certainly not nice. The group that blogs here wants the right to legally purchase raw milk. I support that right. I dont personally think it is wise to give children raw milk, but I support the right for an adult to legally purchase it.
Who is your adversary and what are their beliefs about raw milk? The AMA, CDC and the FDA. Thats who youre fighting against.
I posted the recent raw milk ecoli 0157:H7 outbreaks because this certainly doesnt help the raw milk cause. The largest group that became ill was children. These are hard facts that will be used against other states trying to legalize the sale of raw milk. Whether you believe children need to be protected doesnt matter. Your adversaries on this topic do and they have all the power.
I threw out an idea. Make raw milk legal for adults only. I believe it would speed up the process of legalizing it in all states. Many disagreed with this idea and gave reasons for it. Thats what an open discussion is all about. Sharing ideas and being able to respectfully agree or disagree.
This blog is a forum for open discussions. It would be very boring if everyone agreed.
Did you even read David’s post?
Please stick to posting your opinions, bashing others is not the way to go about this. Everyone has the right to write what they feel. Isnt that what you are all arguing over, freedom??. So let others have the freedom to write what they feel and either comment with an opinion or don’t. Its ok to be passionate about what you feel but why cant others do the same? Like CP said, this blog would be otherwise boring. Coming here and reading all of the government conspiracy theories gets boring at times. Another opinion makes it interesting.
Hearing the same biased and erroneous anti raw milk propaganda again and again gets boring also.
Regarding this: "Whether you believe children need to be protected doesnt matter. Your adversaries on this topic do and they have all the power."
What we believe doesnt matter? Oh boy!
Regulators (our "adversaries" as you call them) are presumably public servants. They work for us, not the other way around. That they "have all the power" is only to our shame, especially when they put that power to work forcing people to act un-healthfully. I, for one, WANT my children to have raw milk because I know it is in their best interest. These protections are harming my kids!
You know, there are many, many substances and actions with the potential to harm both children and adults that are not regulated. Can you tell me why they are not regulated? It is a strong statistical reality, for example, that single-parent homes are at the root of many hurtful social problems. Should we regulate away single parents? It’s also statistically true that many common foods become contaminated in a way that make people sick, at per capita rates higher than raw milk (see Steve Bemis’s long but worthy post above). Should we regulate them away?
But I forgot. My desires about food choice dont matter. And the regulators know better. And the regulators have all the power.
You (correctly!) encourage differing opinions on this blog. Then why not in actions?
Remember, raw milk has been healthfully supporting mankind for millennia. The "land of milk and honey" does not refer to homogenized, pasteurized, reconstituted, fortified, confinement dairy milk.
They stated flatly that the purpose of public education vs private education was to create myrmadons that were sheeple to the government.
I much prefer a free thinking individual that I disagree with than a public school myrmadon. At least they listen and can THINK for themself.
Bob Hayles
Thornberry Village Homestead
Jasper, GA
Thornberry Village Homestead…a small goat dairy owned by God, managed by Bob and Tyler.
Bob Hayles
FYI, I use all natural cleaning products in my home (Seventh Generation), castile soap for hands and body, and a mixture of peroxide and vinegar in the kitchen. I try to reduce chemical exposure as much as possible for my family. We also have a system in our home that removes all the chlorine from the water supply.
I teach Health because I have a passion for the subject.
Bob, your rudeness is quite sad. I hope you didnt model this undesirable trait for your children. What would Jesus say? Is this Christian behavior? Bob, I will say a pray hoping that God helps to lessen the anger you brew in your heart.
Its easy to work in private schools because you can kick out the children that dont behave. Unfortunately, in public education, you have to educate them all. You cant pick and choose. I wish you could meet some of the heroes I work with. Gods love works through them. Trying to educated poor children from troubled homes is a challenge to say the least. Its an honor to work in an institution that is dedicated to all children.
Elizabeth, I envision it working like alcohol and cigarettes. Its only legal for adults to purchase. I wish I know more details about the drug and alcohol laws. I make the assumption that it is illegal to consume these products if youre under age, but I dont know if the law is written that way. I do know that teens can be put on probation if theyre caught drunk in public, so is drunk in public the law theyre breaking or is it alcohol consumption or both.
We do know the cigarette laws are impossible to enforce. Teenage smoking is on the rise. Noone is policing teens that smoke. So for the question, how would it work if only adults could purchase and legally drink raw milk? I see it working like cigarettes. Adults purchase it, their families drink it and theres noone to enforce the law, because it cant be enforced. You would probably only find yourself in a bad situation if your child became ill from raw milk and ended up in the hospital. But, then again, you dont have to tell anyone your child is drinking it. They will look to other sources for the cause of an illness. Besides, most people who are pro raw milk believe it is perfectly safe to drink and therefore this shouldnt be a concern.
We pass other laws that cant be enforced, so why not try for this one. Sometimes its easier to work with the system in place than fight against it. The goal is legal access to raw milk.
I personally am very happy the founding fathers and patriots that created this country did’t share cl’s go along to get along attitude. I don’t think many of us would be happy under English rule.
Bob Hayles
I dont think children should be drinking the stuff, but I do agree that raw milk has many health benefits to offer adults. Please be kind to the next person who comes to this blog with a different view from yours.
Trying to enforce a ban on minors from drinking raw milk would not be cost effective. Law enforcement is short of funds/staff as it is. They have better things to do.
I would expect having the Refrigerator Police force themselves into your home is illegal.Many lawsuits would come from that.
If you force a way of life on one section of the population, what will be forced on others? As stated numerous times on this blog and elsewhere, the fast foods, sugars, added chemicals, etc are far worse than raw dairy. Are they to be policed too?
Why would anyone want to give thier rights as a parent away? Why would anyone want to give any person or entity the power to dictate how thier child is raised or how they lived thier lives? I do not understand that way of thinking. That is not what this country was founded on. I doubt that my 6th Great Uncle Joseph Hewes intended America to become that way;a dictator state, when he became a signer of the Declaration of Independence.
Freedom of choice, education, and knowing who makes your food, is what is needed now….not concerted governmental campaigns to quash small independent farmers (yes MM might not be small, but he’s got miles of us ‘snaking’ behind him). The food safety angle is not the primary motivation…just the one that has the only chance of working in the media. Oh my gosh! A child MIGHT get sick….let’s get the government involved right away! jeez.
For everyone that has been sickened by raw milk….there are thousands who have attained significantly increased levels of health by incorporating this living food into their diet.
Baby meet bathwater.
Raw milk has the MOST to offer to the young…and most kids, once they taste the real stuff, won’t settle for the garbage they sell by the truckload.
The body knows.
Trust your government, or trust your farmer…the choice is obvious. Fighting to keep that choice is important work.
As far as the illness numbers and statistics go….they are essentially useless. The full extent of ‘white market’ milk and the real milk underground, cannot be accurately quantified. If it was, the FDA would be calling in a bomber strike in Fresno. There are many more of us out here than even Sally estimates…
Bob…thank you. It’s always nice when one uses a word that causes dictionary use. Myrmidons… fantastic.
— cp
cp,
I would highly suggest you read some of John Taylor Gatto’s works. He was an award winning public school teacher in NYC who excelled in just such an environment. What he has to say about schooling is very interesting and enlightening, regardless of your persuasion.
since so much of this fight for basic rights will be driven by the public i’m trying to form an awareness campaign.
the statistical information is impressive but so is the dogma and fear mongering from the otherside.
my idea in a nut shell is a road tour, me and one of my cows parked at farmers markets, malls, college campus etc… i’d need to develop a large display booth with all the true facts and a point by point outline correcting and clarifying the oppositions stance. lots of picture posters of feed lot dairy operations and comparision displays of cowshare and raw milk farm operations.
i’m thinking it would end up being a 10’x20′ cubicle style three sided booth with me and my cow center stage i’d be milking her live for the public to observe and consuming the milk for all to see.
i don’t know if i could offer free samples but if not thats fine, part of the point of the tour is to let people know that their gov’t won’t allow them the option to this perfect food.
if i can pull this together i’d need help for sure, buying and having tested pasturized milk samples from the region or national, having them tested by labs, the results crafted into easy to understand poster size displays… on and on and on…
but a lot of the background is on line, maybe folks like you guys here and our generous blog host david could help flesh out a workable outline or facilitate some space for a running dialog is possible?
tri-fold handouts, sample letters to legistators/regulators, current and historic article reprint permissions, large photograph reprints.
i can use my 40′ horse trailer as the cowmobile and stick large signs all over it. i think i could do at least two "shows" a week. i’ll have to consider the cows comfort thru all this of course, i don’t know if it would stress her or not… but she’s a gentle and patient soul and with some nice hay and cool water she’d probably be real happy to do her part.
am i crazy? anyone think something like this could be useful? would others be willing/able to set up their own cow tour? better ideas? comments?
dw and i think it would be a lot of fun and potentially very educational..
Bob
The tour sounds like a great idea! My only concern would be how much pasture time your cow got while traveling. It wouldn’t be good to have her health turn for the worst while she’s on display like that because of the stress of constant relocation and trailer rides.
I believe you could give free samples, though I don’t know for sure. I thought the laws were limited to the sale of raw milk only.
Education is never a wasted thing. I think that is a wonderful idea.
I haven’t seen any live animals at the local farmers markets in my area. The state fair has animals. If I remember correctly, the Cal state fair a few years ago did have a milking exibit (I don’t recall if it was hand milking, I don’t think any milk was given to any one) I know it was geared towards kids. It was cows from a factory farm and educational in regards to the amount of milk old Bessie produced (I thought her udders looked awfully full and strained at mid morning) That exhibit was good that it informed the kids about cows, but didn’t inform on the environment the cow live in, nor the "food" she ate. It alluded to pasture grazing full time. "California happy cows"
brian, i have 2 cows, jerseys, and am looking for a gernsey and a kerry and other rare breeds that give rich milk. plus 2 water buffolo. we would like 6 or so milking over the next few years
dw thinks we should get a few 4H project cows since they are well adjusted to being on display, so we’ll keep our eyes open for them.
help i can surely use, mainly in writing a detailed outline of the information and displays to be included, if i had a 10’x 20′ 3 sided display i’d have 40′ of usable area, i’d like to use regular office cubicle panels (since they are lighter then [say] plywood, and also at least 5’high.) that’s a lot of display area to cover.
what should be included? how about the progression of info as one walks thru. how much detail about feed lot operations? how to present and dispute the anti-raw party line?
what kind of cookies should i be snacking on as i sample milk? although i’m pretty sure they’ll be chocolate chip but oatmeal raisim are sure yummy too. maybe both!
if i can enlist some of you all for input how and where? i don’t have a blog or website, but a site is in our future…
the idea needs a lot of fleshing out, i’m sure game to take on the project and i’d hope others might also start something along the same lines.
basicially the idea stems from one we’re working on to do on farm. we think we’d do well to add agti-tainment (corn-maze et.al.) and agri-education (how to type stuff, like kitchen garden, earthworm compost etc…)
what i don’t want to do is offend david, i’ve read his writing for a long time and wouldn’t think of clogging up his blog with this type stuff regularly. so i’ll be looking for a home for this.
so far i’ve decided to continue with my on farm display but instead of being fixed i’ll adapt the idea to be mobile.and be looking for a lot more in the way of informational display type stuff. any help in that area is most valuable i think.
I agree with others that you are onto something. I am only too happy to see my blog used to help expedite something this creative and educational.
I think you’re right that you’ll need some help. Someone with graphic design skills could help with the display you have in mind (not my skillset, unfortunately).
In terms of developing the ideas and key points, you might want to take a look, if you haven’t already, at the Weston A. Price Foundation PowerPoint rebuttal to the FDA:
http://www.realmilk.com/documents/SheehanPowerPointResponse.pdf
Maybe as you do it a few times, you’ll help develop a template of sorts that others can replicate.
i read in my above post that i said i could do 2 a week, i ment a month (i have a farm to run/maintain).
i don’t know if one guy doing a cow tour would be media worthy but i bet 2,3…6 of them in different states, hitting the road together might spark some useful coverage in the press. with a schedule we could alert the press ahead of time and maybe get advance schedule/location coverage. (i’m already thinking too big i imagine 🙂
i’m all ears for good ideas on how to proceed in getting readers input and ideas. one issue i see is drilling down in past blog posts comments is a bit of a click and scroll, click and scroll chore.
for example should i have posted this on the current blog comments page instead of here? a few days will likely tell. if no or too few responses i’ll post again on the current blog entry.
anyway, i think this could be fun, and educational for us here as well as for those who might see the tour once it becomes a reality. so if anyone is still reading this blog entry comments, and all you readers/lurkers who have ability/resources to maybe put one together yourself lets here from you!
ideas, plans, outlines, pitfalls, links and general/critical comments are a good start.