Morgan the cow munches grass in front of admirers at a rally in support of Amish farmer Dan Allgyer, who is the target of a federal court action. For a short time, I thought there might be some opponents to raw milk at today’s rally in Washington to support Amish farmer Dan Allgyer. But alas, it was three people from PETA, the animal rights organization, including one dressed as a cow. No one volunteered to come assert opposition to raw milk.
So the rally included nearly 400 supporters of Allgyer, along with Morgan, a cow who was, of course, the center of attention. A close second was a table where supporters passed out samples of raw milk from about 30 gallons imported for the occasion, with the U.S. Capital in the background…along with signs that insistently warned, “Drink at your own risk.”
Among a half dozen speakers who railed against the FDA was Jonathan Emord, a Washington lawyer who specializes in representing individuals and business hit on by the the FDA. He may become involved in the Allgyer case, in which the FDA has sought a permanent injunction against the farmer for shipping raw milk to the food club outside Pennsylvania. Emord gave a pretty fiery speech for a lawyer.
“When a major pharmaceutical company commits fraud in a new drug application, or markets a drug that causes heart attacks and strokes in tens of thousands of people, far from stopping the company, the FDA stands in defense of it.
“But when a humble Amish farmer dares sell unpasteurized milk, the FDA gets down to business…FDA spent a year investigating Dan and entrapping him…They should be ashamed of themselves! This nation was built by yeoman farmers just like Dan Allgyer.”
Sally Fallon referred to the FDA bureaucrats as “the nondairy creamer people” who repeatedly communicate “the lie…that raw milk is inherently dangerous.” Mark McAfee, owner of Organic Pastures Dairy Co., criticized the FDA’s refusal to take account of potential benefits of raw milk.
I portrayed the current case against Allgyer as part of a broad-based offensive to deprive his food club members of important foods. I encouraged food club members “to do more of what we are doing. More clubs. Larger clubs. More farmers. Expanding sales. Eventually, the FDA, and the Obama Justice Department, which is backing this entire adventure, will have to decide whether to more seriously confront their own people over their food choices.”
One disturbing new twist to the entire case that Emord, the lawyer, pointed out to me is that the FDA has, as part of its case, sought to make Allgyer pay for the undercover investigation against the food club. That, said Emort, could be $100,000 to $150,000 or more. “This is especially mean spirited,” he said.
***
Congratulations to Liz Reitzig and Karine Bouis-Towe, who organized the rally for the food club…and to Morgan, for attracting as many as a dozen media people to cover it. ?
***
You don’t think the government was taking note of today’s demonstration? It has one of its law firm affiliates publish an article from the U.S. Centers for Disease Contol about raw milk “myths,” and the firm publishes this assessment of data regarding illnesses from raw dairy.
http://www.culturecheesemag.com/news/lactalis_opens_books_for_parmalat_merger
Lactallis, which is the largest milk processor in France, and is notorious for its 2007 attempt to alter the AOC regulations for Camembert de Normandie to allow for heat-treatment of the milk, is looking to acquire the bankrupt Italian cheese giant Parmalat.
The current degree of consolidation in the dairy industry, both in the U.S. and in Europe, is unprecendented. This is the force of corporate globalization at work… at its good to see that there is a grassroots fight back going on!!
http://www.nationaljournal.com/milking-a-hill-rally-for-all-it-s-worth-20110516
Debbie
http://www.marlerblog.com/lawyer-oped/85-of-outbreaks-and-illnesses-from-milk-products-were-traced-to-raw-milk-or-60-day-aged-raw-milk-che/
Asthma, allergies, heart disease, even cancer from increased level of IGF-8 in rBGH milk.
Oh that's right… Marler doesn't care about those things. He just a shill for FDA and big dairy. Talk about a biased analysis.
What a colossal bunch of pigs.
I guess it's CP's turn to be the messenger from the I-won't-let-anyone-ever-say-anything-nice-about-raw-milk-ever club.
What a slime ball. Still can't believe he banned me from his blog for pointing out the revolving door between FDA and Monsanto…
In China the government would line up those in charge and have them shot to protect public safety and the honor of the people and country
The CDC data does not show one death from raw milk since 1973. Not one. I will say this again. The FDA is a murderous greedy fascist organization. I think that was accurate. Did I miss anything?
The rally in DC rocked.
Great work to Liz and Karine and all the others Jonathan Emord went off on the FDA and sounded like a founding father as he expounded with in a few hundred feet of our nations
capital as Morgan the Jersey munched on green grass and was milked by kids and moms.
This was a Raw Milk Spring. A Raw Milk Rising. The FDA is about to have their CAFO PMO asses handed back them. They just stimulated raw milk sales. When will they ever learn that Harrassment of dairymen especially the Amish just makes the Raw Milk fight better and stronger. FDA stupid people. Really stupid people. Maybe even ADHD or retarded. Our tax dollars be flushed down the toilet.
Mark
Mark
http://www.marlerblog.com/lawyer-oped/sally-fallon-morell-and-the-weston-a-price-foundation-you-better-get-a-very-good-lawyer—and-lots-o/
Sally Fallon Morell and the Weston A. Price Foundation, you better get a very good lawyer – and lots of insurance
The National Journal reported on the Moo-in in Washington D. C. where Morgan the cow held court. It looked like all had fun poking fun at the FDA and touting the taste and alleged benefits of raw milk. However, this quote (which I hope someone has on tape) was really quite shocking:
Sally Fallon Morell, president of the Weston A. Price Foundation, said the laws against raw milk crossing state lines have nothing to do with safety and everything to do with economics.
Children who start out on raw milk are very healthy children," she said. "They dont have asthma, they dont have allergies, they dont miss days at school, they dont get sick, and they dont have digestive problems. Raw milk is a magic food, and we are here to defend that magic food.
Magic food, Really? Sally, you need to lawyer-up. The next family who relies on your words, and the Foundations website, and their kid becomes ill after drinking raw milk, you will have a problem. I have spoken about this before at the AVMA Conference in Seattle awhile back (as quoted on "THE BOVINE":
Trade Association Liability and says, The crux of trade association liability is whether consumers rely on the associations information and expertise.
85% of Outbreaks and Illnesses from Milk Products were traced to Raw Milk or 60-day Aged Raw Milk Cheeses in the Last 18 Months
In response to the Rally for Raw Milk (a.k.a., "Mrs. Moo goes to Washington," "The Million Moo March" or "All the Presidents Cows") to be held in Washington D.C., I thought I would give (before Ron Paul, et. al., don the "moostache") a few statistics from the last year and a half on raw milk and raw milk cheese safety:
Summary:
A review of 16 outbreaks since January 2010 revealed that 14 (88%) were due to raw dairy products (raw milk and aged raw milk cheeses) including 155 of 183 (85%) illnesses and 23 of 33 (70%) hospitalizations from these illnesses
Raw dairy illnesses were caused by Campylobacter, Cryptosporidium, E. coli O157:H7 and other shiga toxin-producing E. coli, and Salmonella
One pasteurized milk outbreak from Salmonella was reported during this time period and caused 23 illnesses and 2 hospitalizations
No known deaths were reported from any dairy product (raw or pasteurized) during this time period
All in-state raw dairy sales were legal; 2 farms allegedly violated federal law by shipping raw milk interstate through buyers clubs
Details:
Outbreaks
14 raw dairy outbreaks with 155 illnesses, 23 hospitalizations, and no deaths (12 fluid raw milk, 2 aged raw milk cheese)
1 pasteurized dairy outbreak with 23 illnesses, 2 hospitalizations, and no deaths
1 queso fresco Mexican-style cheese outbreak with 5 illnesses and hospitalizations, no deaths
3 sporadic illnesses and hospitalizations from illegal Mexican-style cheese, no deaths
Recalls (no illnesses reported)
11 raw dairy (5 fluid raw milk, 6 aged raw milk cheese)
5 queso fresco cheese
1 chocolate milk due to inadequate pasteurization
1 imported Italian cheese made from pasteurized milk
Estimate of raw milk and pasteurized milk outbreaks and illnesses, January 1, 2010 May 15, 2011:
Based on the reported numbers above:
14 times higher number of outbreaks from unpasteurized milk (14/1)
6.7 times higher number of illnesses from unpasteurized milk (155/23)
11.5 times higher number of hospitalizations from unpasteurized milk (23/2)
However, if only 3% (from FoodNet data estimates) of total milk consumed is unpasteurized milk (raw milk 3%, cheese made from raw milk 1.6%, pasteurized milk 78.5%), then during this period, the risk of consuming a unpasteurized milk vs. a pasteurized milk product was:
~1400 times higher number of outbreaks from unpasteurized milk relative to pasteurized milk
~670 times higher number of illness from an equivalent serving of unpasteurized milk relative to pasteurized milk
~1150 times higher number of hospitalizations from unpasteurized milk relative to pasteurized milk
Of note, according to the USDA, total milk output for 2010 was 193 billion pounds (24,125,000,000 gallons). Almost two-thirds of the milk supply is used to produce a wide array of dairy products. Almost half of the milk supply is used to turn out about 9 billion pounds of cheese each year. The production of ice cream and other frozen dairy products totals about 1.5 billion gallons. Butter, yogurt and nonfat dry milk make up the balance of production (http://www.ers.usda.gov/briefing/dairy/background.htm). Less than 1% of the total comprises legal fluid raw milk.
See, 2010-2011 Outbreaks, illnesses and recalls linked to raw (unpasteurized) and pasteurized dairy products, United States (January 1, 2010 – May 15, 2011) Chart with Citations.
http://www.davita.com/kidney-disease/overview/stages-of-kidney-disease
Mary
http://wholefoodusa.wordpress.com/2011/05/16/fda-dragon-slayer-speaks-out-on-amish-raw-milk-sting/
What a slime ball. Can you trust anything that guy says? Its obvious he's just in this for the money. If he was really concerned about food safety, then why does he never talk about the artificial growth horomones in conventional milk that are linked to cancer?
Mary
"…It is in vain, sir, to extenuate the matter. Gentlemen may cry, Peace, Peace– but there is no peace. The war is actually begun! The next gale that sweeps from the north will bring to our ears the clash of resounding arms! Our brethren are already in the field! Why stand we here idle? What is it that gentlemen wish? What would they have? Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!"
Patrick Henry, March 23, 1775.
I'm with Patrick Henry, not with chains and slavery loving Marler, Martin, CP, Monsanto, FDA, UN. The chains and slavery of government, commerce, science, law. "Nuts!"
Mr. J. Ingvar Odegaard
I agree that black market unregulated raw milk on rare occasion can make some consumers ill.
In America our diets and medical establishment disregard our immune systems. Medical care has made us susceptible to illness and super-bugs created by that same system of sterilization, antibiotic abuse and sterile foods that so effectively feed this illness machine.
That is the American way.
Mary, CP….when a consumer becomes educated, they leave this paradigm and join others that prevent this pattern and consciously decide that they want strong immunity. I agree that on rare occasion, this can be risky for an extremely small group of people.
That does not mean that people should not have the choice to get off the deadly American train to immune system hell.
Mary and CP and Marler…..you are free to stay on this immune depression train and gamble the night away.
The rest of us have consciously decided on a different path…one of strength. You have no right to mandate that we all stay on the ASTHMA MRSA Express with you.
RT TV invited Liz and I to go on live TV last evening to tell the rest of the story. The story of immune strength. The story of Our Raw Milk Spring. After 100 years of WAR and oppression finally a mechanism of information distribution ( the internet ) has emerged and no longer will the lies at the FDA and FOOD INC dominate the culture….the people can now make a choice. The people can now rebel and leave the FOOD INC PMO CAFO train destined to immune system hell.
If you all remember last week….this is why I am advocating for RAWMI standards. RAWMI is for FARMERS and CONSUMERS so we do not create any more Mary Martins or Cardiffs.
Remember, Cardiff was a product of untested uninspected cow share raw milk. We now know that Campylobacter hides out in the oxygen deprived biofilms of unclean milk systems. That is why we all need to embrace RAWMI food safety standards. This will be the method to leave the stories of illness from raw milk in the history books, permanently deprive Marler of a paycheck, give the FOOD INC CAFO loving and defending FDA the finger and safely embrace the best of raw milk.
Mark
And [state] regulated foods can also make some people ill, the difference being that those made ill mistakenly believed they were being protected. Sometimes they even believe they now have "someone to sue", when what has actually happened is that burden of blame has been shifted, the buck passed.
There is no safety this side of the grave, and a "black market" is a free market being asserted despite violent interference.
You blame the organisms present in raw milk as well as other foods for having caused illness in certain individuals yet hundreds and perhaps thousands of individuals having consumed the same organism failed to become ill?
Clearly the fact that so many people did not become ill is reason to believe that the organism itself is not responsible, so how can one selectively discriminate against the organism?
Our lack of knowledge has prompted us to use the organism as a scapegoat or whipping boy in order to placate our fears. In the end however we do ourselves more harm then good.
I agree with Migel when he states that, All elements of a system interact with each other and every element fulfills multiple functions and every function is performed by multiple elementsIf we could understand all of the functions that a Salmonella or E.coli 0157:H7 perform in a system we might begin to understand why they need to be in that "long tail of biodiversity" in our digestive system. That they are there should be of no concern.
I also share Daves frustration when he states, I am sick and tired of hearing the lie that sanitized, tested, non-diverse systems are the best we can do. And I am frankly angry that the rules and regulations designed to limit the damage done by monoculturalism always (ALWAYS!) spill over onto the polycultures, and in the process diminish their strength. This is no little thing, for instead of encouraging the growth of the very best of our biological and social structures, we are working to destroy them.
Ken Conrad
http://www.marlerblog.com/uploads/image/2011%20ALL%20dairy%20through%20May%2015%20%283%29.pdf
MW
For my own peace of mind and my families health I prefer to constantly monitor the balance,stability and resilience of the complete bacterial community involved in milk production.So far I have not found a laboratory that can do this at a reasonable cost or even at an unreasonable cost.They could do it if they would accept that balance ,stability and resilience of the system are what is important.Laboratories are in the business of developing pathogen tests and selling them.Fear of pathogens,judges and insurance salesmen sells pathogen tests,business is good and growing.
We are left to figure out how to monitor these important system characteristics on our own.The key is daily monitoring of the cow's health.Spending time everyday observing how they feel is important.This can be done when moving them about on the pasture or bringing them in to be milked and especially while milking.If there is any reason to question how the cow is doing,taste it's milk.Even if there is no reason,taste the milk from each quarter at least once a week.You can taste stress in the milk.When the cow is digesting it's own fat,it gives the milk and the cow's breath an off flavor.This is a sign that the cow is not eating enough for some reason.Clabber some milk from the tank a couple of times a week to make sure it has good flavor and texture.Make your own cheese culture by letting the warm milk set at room temperature until it clabbers( about 48 hours), and use it to make cheese.Learn how excellent cheese culture acts during the cheese making process.When the cheese is ripe,the flavor will reflect the community of bacteria in the milk.When something is wrong with the milk or the culture it will stand out like a sore thumb.Let a sample of milk sit in the refrigerator for two weeks,then taste compare it to some fresh milk.We are in effect doing many laboratory tests on a weekly basis and we are reading results that reflect the complete community of bacteria on the farm ,in the cow,and in the milk.It is the balance,stability and resilience of this community of bacteria that we need to monitor to have safe milk and cheese.
If "black market" milk is milk that hasn't been tested for pathogens in a laboratory,the important question to ask is has it been tested on the farm.And I mean tested for balance,stability and resilience by conscientious and continuous monitoring by the farmers.These methods have been used by farmers for hundreds of years to insure safety when it was not possible to send samples out to a laboratory.
—-
Chapter 5 about seatbelt legislation will really raise your eyebrows. As Prof. Adams himself points out, there is abundant evidence that in the event of a motor vehicle crash, a motor vehicle occupant is far less likely to be killed or injured if he or she is wearing a seat belt. But when seat belt use is mandated by law, there is usually no statistically significant reduction in deaths, and in some cases (Manitoba comes to mind) the number of deaths rises. Also, the number of pedestrian deaths usually also rises.
Opposition to those laws was almost always on libertarian grounds. Even the opponents of seat belt laws assumed that such legislation would reduced road fatalities; they simply dismissed this as irrelevant.
The most reasonable explanation of the actual observations is that people seem to drive slightly more aggressively if they are made to wear seat belts; the safety benefit is consumed as a performance benefit instead. That would also explain the increase in pedestrian deaths after such legislation is passed. Risk compensation is the term Adams uses to explain this. So forcing aggressive drivers to wear seat belts reduces the perceived risk of poor driving habits and results in worse behavior/more accidents.
—-
The above comment about the mandatory seatbelt law has the same justification as why some people say mandatory insurance should be necessary to sell raw milk. But to me, having mandatory insurance means that over time I might well be less careful about my milk production; after all, isn't that what insurance is for… to cover one's @$$ in case of carelessness?
By the way, I don't know where some people in the previous post got the idea that I'm against Mark and everything he's doing. I have not attacked Mark personally and was surprised to find that he and supporters felt threatened by my comments, possibly by a general reference to greed which was meant for the dairy industry as a whole, not for Mark; if so, I apologize for not being more clear.
I merely stated my objections to part of his plans as listed thus far, such as insurance being necessary, as well as my concerns on how "voluntary" has a way of becoming "mandatory" over time… just like NAIS was first voluntary and is now mandatory, at least in my state. This is a legitimate concern.
I believe Mark is passionate about raw milk and doing good overall, and I certainly applaud his efforts thus far. I just want to be sure that raw milk "rules and regulations" won't eventually squeeze out the smaller producers over time… the way history has shown over and over for many things, not just dairy. Seems like, over time, all regulations eventually lead to the "Get Big or Get Out" scenario.
Also by the way, Gordon, I do not receive, nor ever have received, any kind of government handout in any way, shape or form… not even unemployment my entire life. Your ad hominem attack was uncalled for and had nothing to do with raw milk.
Not all of us are interested in becoming what you call "successful" (ie, ever-increasing growth and making lots of money from raw milk), nor do we envy those like Mark and yourself, who do. More power to them, I say, because I'm perfectly happy in my little niche, providing raw milk to immediately local people who cannot get it any other way other than milking their own animals.
There's room for everyone in the raw milk field… I just want to make sure there always will be room for everyone.
Now I would like to apologize to Mark….I realized after reading my post that I was too personal, and rather than attacking the person, it would be better to stick to the content. Mark, as do us all, has the right to his own opinions and path…and if he feels that the best future for raw milk is industrial farms with a bright shiny seal on the label where thousands of people can pluck a gallon off the grocery store shelf…that's his right. This vision, in my eyes, is diminishes raw milk, and those that produce it…and is not right.
Thanks MW for expounding on the info for those of us who refuse to give Marler better web hit numbers…. The 'problem' with raw milk isn't the black market…..it has served the substance well over the years, and has allowed raw milk to flourish in this country. Smaller farms, where the farmer is sharing their personal food supply with those of his local 'tribe' is far more safer than milk from hundred cow factory farms…no matter what kind of 'testing' they do. I'd rather drink the milk from someone who feeds their kids from every batch….rather than one who is more concerned about the return the capital venturists or investment bankers are getting.
If safety is the real concern, and testing is the basis for the new standards…it can be had with creating a new enforcement body…and that is what the new 'institute' will have to become ( I wonder if those who support this new idea realize that it will take a new 'police' force to implement the new standards). Working a deal with an existing lab…or creating a new one, expressly designed to serve the raw milk market…can solve the testing problem…without dictating how the milk is created. How, if the new standards dictate zero grain, will this be enforced….surprise inspections at milking time? What if the regs say no more than 1% grain feeding….are the 'institute representatives' going to show up in the milk parlor with a scale? I contend that establishing a standard is a lot easier than enforcing it….and the drawbacks for such a standard far out weigh the benefits. Do you really think that when a consumer sees 'tested' on the side of the jug they are going to know that it's being tested as a way for the farmer to see how he is doing, rather than insuring that that jug is safe?
Mark…sowing the seeds of fear of the local black market dairy is so unbecoming. Shame on you. You do realize that it's the black market that has allowed raw milk to reach the numbers it has in this country. It's obvious your motivation for that comment….very CDC/FDA like if you ask me.
Gordon….your responses are so predicatble…it's almost too funny. You might enjoy talking down to us Americans, and blaming socialism for all the worlds ills…but you haven't a clue (I'll spare you the canadian jokes…there are many…that I know). No government handouts for me…ever…sorry to disappoint you…I firmly believe that if I work hard…all day, every day, that I will get what I need. So far it's been good enough. As far as my contribution to the 'cause'….how do you measure it….sheer gallons delivered? Number of families served? Density of families served within a 10 mile radius of the farm…20 miles? (or kilometers…lol) Do you use amount of beneficial bacteria sold for peoples guts….or diversity of said bacteria? Does it count if I also serve other benefical healthy fats, pork poultry or lamb to my customers….? does gallons of groundwater pumped to irrigate pasture count in your ass esment? Sure it would be nice to just take a break from the farm, and fly over to DC for some fun and camraderie…but alas, I have no $7 Mexican milking my cows….instead, I worked cultivating the kraut cabbage patch yesterday. There's a place for each and every in the movement…. and every opinion…whether you agree or not, is just as important as another.
I do agree with Mark on one thing though..miquel is a wise man…and does deserve a place on the Institute Board. Given that I wonder if Mark would expound on who exactly IS on that board currently. Is it packed with 'industrial farmers'…or is there room for a token two cow cow share owner on it? This Institute thing is dangerous…and could detrimentally alter the raw milk environment for us all….
It was great to meet you yesterday, and thanks so much for getting a post up so fast and for all the work you do to chronicle this "movement."
http://www.fishinthewater.net/2011/05/17/fda-hands-off-my-milk/
Here's my post- not so much "here's what happened" as it is, "why is this happening at all?" It was a common question I heard yesterday. Why is this happening at all? What kind of crazy world do we live in that we had to leave our homes and our farms (as many of us did) to stand around and ask for the right to eat the foods of our choice from "our" government? I could have been home making cheese! Here's to fighting so that in the future we will all be able to procure the foods of our choice from the farmers of our choice, by the means of our choice!
All the best,
Tara
Dr Don Huber gives a dire warning concerning a new unamed [man made ?] pathogen affecting the nations food production including dairy cows. I would be interested in hearing from Miguel on this very important video.
I presume you are talking about Scott Trautman? His efforts are not secret, and he is by no means a conventional dairyman. Scott follows the Albrecht school and has been certified organic (or pursuing organic certification) since he started farming. The fact that he is not from a farming background is of no substance. In many ways, he brings a fresh perspective and entrepreneurial spirit that the more established "conventional" farms lack.
It seems, however, that you are a conspiracy theorist and prone to quackery… nothing personal. Perhaps you've just spent a little too much time around lola granola.
I do not agree with Miguel about everything, but I respect his viewpoint immensely and would like him to contribute to the standards. However, we must recognize that the purpose of creating these standards is to validate with modern science and laboratory testing what traditional dairy farmers and cheese makers have known for centuries. These standards are not a substitute for the methods that Miguel speaks of (methods which I too use to evaluate raw milk), rather they are meant to validate those methods in the eyes of science and industry.
Perhaps rather than reacting with hostility, we ought to see this as an opportunity. I think that Miguel has presented some excellent ideas, and I hope that he continue sharing his wisdom with us.
I have a thick skin…so I don't take much personally….and in regards to conspiracy theories…many of them are based in truth, and it is quite often that those that try and poo-poo them are involved in the conspiring. Maybe you missed the series of posts a few months back, when Scott introduced his effort to the list. One of his stated goals was to give conventional dairies the road map into the raw milk market. I didn't make it up…I remember it quite well.
Miquel's wisdom far exceeds milk production and quality…and I do hope if this certification effort continues forward that he can be a part of it. His influence would make it better than it would be without it.
Would you think that part of the new certifcation that organic standards will be required? Feeding that monster would be hard for some. Heck, my neighbor, who has certified organic so he can get a higher price for his crops was out spraying his fence line the other day…and the canister he had sure didn't look to me like one of the new 'green' herbicides. When someone trusts a label…or a seal…rather than looking into the eye, or judging their farmer from face to face interaction..it's more difficult to establish a trust that is meaningful.
Right now we have few details. We don't know whom is doing what…all we've been getting is a positive spin on something that could change the face of raw milk production in this country….and judging by a majority of the responses, I am not the only one concerned.
"It seems, however, that you are a conspiracy theorist and prone to quackery… nothing personal. Perhaps you've just spent a little too much time around lola granola."
Bill, I would expect that you would have enough respect for me as a fellow human being to not take cheap shots at me when you think I'm not looking.
You're a sad little man.
I think Dr,Ton Baars spoke at the raw milk conference in Wisconsin.There is very good science that has already validated much of what I bring up.The problem seems to be that science and industry in the US does not want to hear what is being said.All we really need to do is validate these methods in the eyes of the producers and co producers of our food.Let the scientists and industrialists produce the food they want to eat.I don't want to waste time trying to get people to see what they don't want to see.
http://content.yudu.com/Library/A1hm5s/StarandFurrowSummer2/resources/9.htm
I hope to contribute to the standards.I would also like some younger, would be farmers to express ideas about standards.Maybe Tara(fish in the water) has some ideas about standards.Without a lot of young people getting involved it will be impossible to produce the quality of food that we all are hoping to find.
The bottom line is this: According to one of Marler's cover blogs called "Keep Our Food Safe," "between 1998 and 2008, there were 85 outbreaks of human infections resulting from consumption of raw diary reported to CDC, including a total of 1,614 illnesses, 187 hospitalizations and two deaths . . "
Now let's put this into proper perspective. In a quote from Dr. Robert L. Scharff, former FDA economist: "In 1999, the CDC estimated that approximately 76 million new cases of food-related illnesses (resulting in 5,000 deaths and 325,000 hospitalizations) occur in the US each year."
Now let's do a little math here. 76 million PER YEAR times 10 years equals 760,000,000 foodborne illnesses reported over a ten year period. Out of that, allegedly 1,614 of those illnesses were "associtated with" the consumption of raw dairy. 1,614 divided by 760,000,000 equals .000002 So, of all the reported food-borne illnesses for a ten year period, .0002 percent of them were associated with raw dairy. Looked at in a different way, 99.9998 percent of all food borne illnesses over the same ten years had nothing to do with raw dairy.
In addition, according to the Hammitt and Haninger survey and CDC data, Roberts (2007) estimated that the annual cost of food borne illness was somewhere between $357 billion and $1.4 trillion. This is a YEARLY projection. If you add up the "cost" of the 1,614 reported illnesses allegedly related to raw diary over a TEN YEAR period, next to the yearly costs overall cited above, it appears the FDA and Marler could find a little bit bigger fish to fry than the raw dairies of America.
However, my final question is this: Even though Marler is a blatant Plaintiff's attorney trying to drum up some more individual clients, I cannot help but wonder whether he's also on Dairy Farmers of America's payroll for these ridiculous blogs he's spewing out there about raw milk and raw dairy. Come on, Bill, who's paying you for that . . . ? Fess up, boy . . .
A few responses:
"You can taste stress in the milk.When the cow is digesting it's own fat,it gives the milk and the cow's breath an off flavor.This is a sign that the cow is not eating enough for some reason."
Yes, I am familiar with the sickly-sweet "cow breath" taste in raw milk. It is is a result of ketosis, and happens because of stress or deficient energy in the diet/forage. The importance of mineralization of soil cannot be emphasized enough, as a pre-requisite for any kind of raw milk safety plan. Good quality forage requires good soil.
"Learn how excellent cheese culture acts during the cheese making process."
Good cultures acidify the milk and curd in a curve, gradually demineralizing the casein as they work. This can be objectively measured through titration or with a pH meter. But an experience cheese maker can tell by how the curd feels — that skill takes years to develop, and is a highly useful skill, no doubt. But it would be a mistake to suggest that we should not also use the more scientific methods that are available to us.
"When the cheese is ripe,the flavor will reflect the community of bacteria in the milk.When something is wrong with the milk or the culture it will stand out like a sore thumb."
This is only part of the picture, Miguel.
Firstly, a cheese, when it is ripe, should reflect more than just the culture in the milk. It should also refect the way the way the cheese was made — is it a lactic curd or a rennet curd? How demineralized was the curd?
And a fully ripe cheese should reflect the affinage, or the ripening techniques. The enviroment and cultures in the cave or curing room, and the way the cheese is handled in affinage are, in many ways, MORE important than the initial culture. The job of the initial culture is primarily to ferment the lactose into lactic acid. The job of the affinage and ripening cultures is to lend flavor and terrior to the cheese.
Secondly, contamination of cheese can come from more than just the initial cultures. The water supply can be a vector for contamination, especially pseudomonas and coliform. If you are washing your cheese in water from your well, but the water is contaminated, you will have problems that didn't come from the milk cultures…
Finally, you said "There is a misconception among many people that laboratory testing for pathogens can give us confidence that the milk is safe."
Miguel, one of the most important lessons I learned about permaculture, having taken courses from experienced permaculture designers, is to PAY ATTENTION TO THE MARGINS. In other words, when two systems come together, the "edge habitat" is where the most interesting things happen. The border between a prairie and a wooded area, for example, has many species which would not exist only on the prairie or only in the woods. They live on the "edge" between these two ecosystems.
What we are talking about here is essentially the same things, except instead of eco-systems, we are talking about ways of understanding and evaluating milk.
The way that you and I approach milk and cheese is in the traditional way — using fermentation, and our own senses, as tools of evaluation.
However, there is another method, the modern scientific method, which also has a particular way of looking at milk and cheese. It is in the margins, where these two systems meet, where the most interesting things will happen.
Your attitude seems to be a rejection of science, and to only use the traditional methods. You want to stay in the forest, and never come out to see the prairie because you are afraid of the people who live on the prairie.
Some people — people like Bill Marler, CP, Milky Way, FDA, et al — are stuck in the prairie. They want to chop down the entire forest and turn it all into a prairie.
My attitude is that we must embrace science to validate the traditional methods — I live in the margins between the forest and the prairie. This is where the most interesting things will happen. And this is where the strugge to save the forest from people like Bill Marler who want to chop it down will be fought.
Come join us, Miguel, in the "edge habitat" between modern science and traditional dairying practices. We could use your wisdom and insights!!
A very important video indeed.The 45% spontaneous abortion rate in some dairy herds is likely why a half dozen CAFO barns stand empty now within 35 miles of our farm.These are barns that formerly housed 500 to 2000-3000 cows each.At a price of 8 or 10 million dollars a piece, someone lost a bunch of money trying out this type of farming.Now maybe the soil and groundwater will start to recover.
Ton Baars is right. Cattle can not be treated as production units in a factory.They self destruct from stress.
I found a song that makes me think about you:
Enjoy!
I like how you phrased that.
""edge habitat" between modern science and traditional dairying practices."
Especially how you called it "modern science". Is that an admission that it's not really science at all?
Thanks for making my point for me, Bill.
What I'm saying is that we must embrace these techniques, and work to develop and adapt them for our purposes.
And at the same time we must also work on expanding our understanding of traditional techniques, and seek to validate those techniques using modern science and technology.
Its not an either/or proposition, Miguel. The edge habitat is the most important place of all!!! We must seek to "maximize the edge"!!!!
http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt-and-politics/article_970f820c-8086-11e0-8bfc-001cc4c03286.html
A prairie is a productive ecosystem that can and does support a variety of plant, animal, bird, aquatic and insect species. I would suggest rather that the above individuals you refer to along with their so called science based approach to organisms will turn it all into a wasteland.
As far as science is concerned Oliver Wendell Holmes sums it up well, Science is a first-rate piece of furniture for a man's upper chamber, if he has common sense on the ground floor.
Ken Conrad
As far as the prairie-forest analogy goes… it was just a metaphor. You are right that Marler et al are turning their "prairie" into a wasteland. That will be their own undoing. But that is also why we need people in the edge habitat between the woods and prairie, ready to rebuild a bio-diverse prairie!!!
MW
That said, I'm glad I'm not the only one that falls into the 'personal' trap. I've never met lola, but she does add a view that is important to have here…whether you agree with her or not. She, like you, is only trying to let others see her perspective…and the more different ones we have, the easier it is to formulate our own in a more solid way.
http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/crime_and_courts/article_07edf1e8-80d2-11e0-bf3c-001cc4c03286.html
http://www.cdc.gov/salmonella/typhimurium-laboratory/042711/index.html
Maybe Dave M. and Miguel are right. Better to skip the labs altogether, since the facilities themselves seem to be hotbeds of inoculum.
http://www.wiscnews.com/baraboonewsrepublic/news/local/article_457d349a-8039-11e0-9993-001cc4c002e0.html
And one of Bill Marler's lackeys is lamenting that there has been no further prosecution of Hershberger:
http://www.foodpoisonjournal.com/foodborne-illness-outbreaks/raw-milk-against-the-law-or-not/
I am coming from a political perspective, not a food safety one (and before you attack me and say that I'm not interested in food safety, I am – I just think that food safety comes from personal freedom and not the other way around). Just because you do not agree with my politics does not mean I have nothing valuable to say. I have made intriguing arguments concisely and succinctly. Do not play me for a fool or an idiot because I am neither.
I am the only one here for whom you have such venomous words. Why me? Why only me? I know why…It's because I am the one who knows who you are, what you are, and what endgame you're advocating. And like hell I'm going to let that come to pass without a fight.