When battles over raw milk regulation break out in one state or another, public health professionals invariably argue it is entirely about food safety and protecting the public. Yet sometimes the political and business realities that underlie much of the battle over raw milk assert themselves, despite the regulators best efforts to keep them under cover. Such is the situation in Illinois, where thirty years of raw milk peace have been disturbed by an unexpected regulatory blitz apparently initiated by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration via a financial grant to Illinois and pushed along by its friends at Dean Foods, the monopoly that controls Americas pasteurized milk business. Its real intent, based on the rigidity of the proposed rules and required added expenses for small dairies, seems to be to shutter as many tiny dairies as possible so as to eliminate as much competition to Dean Foods as possible.
In this article, naturopath and food freedom activist Rosanne Lindsay recounts events at a hearing held last Thursday on the proposed Illinois raw milk regulations, and wonders whether the push to throw small dairies out of business in Illinois can be halted. Lindsay is also author of The Nature of Healing: Heal the Body, Heal the Planet.
by Rosanne Lindsay
On my way from Wisconsin to Indiana last Thursday, I detoured to Springfield, Illinois, with friends to attend a day-long public hearing on new rules proposed by the Illinois Department of Public health (IDPH) to regulate small raw milk dairies. It reminded me of similar hearings in Wisconsin years earlier–somehow it seems that on the highway of life, the road to raw milk freedom is paved with regulators.
Leading up to the Illinois hearing, a raw milk working group (formally known as the Illinois Raw Milk Subcommittee) spent more than a year to reach what should have been an acceptable compromise. The work group consisted of members of the Farm Bureau, state regulators, consumers, raw milk farmers, along with a representative of the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (Larry Terando) and of Dean Foods (Roger Hooi). Before its meetings were done, the big guys were understood to have taken over this group.
Perhaps from the IDPHs view, it seemed like a compromise, in that the group proposed strict regulation of the states dairies selling raw milk, requiring expensive equipment in addition to testing and inspections, even for the tiniest of dairies. But to many of these small dairies, the proposed regulations portend the end of a delicate balance that had them working the land for minimal financial returns, and a satisfying relationship with members of their community who value nutrient-dense food.
When IDPH launched its initial assault in 2012, it came at Illinois raw dairy farmers with a huge chip on its shoulder, trying to put them all out of business by banning the sale of raw milk in the state. It was hard not to see it as a hostile, even hateful, solution in search of a problem, since Illinois has legally enjoyed direct unlicensed, farm-to-consumer sales of raw milk for more than thirty years. Reports on illnesses vary slightly, with some saying there have been no cases of foodborne illness related to raw milk since 1998, and some media saying there have been minimal problems–two instances of illnesses over that 15-year time span, but no hospitalizations.
Many believe IDPHs policy shift from no involvement to shipwrecking crew reflected collaboration with the FDA, to obtain at least one financial grant of nearly $1 million in 2012 to impose new restrictions over small farms. The assault was rejected last year by the Illinois legislature, though. Ironically, no State legislators were present Thursday to listen to their constituents, due to a scheduling conflict, though four state regulators participated.
A handful of paid regulators from various state health agencies testified along the official line that, Raw milk is dangerous and must be strictly regulated for public health and safety. In contrast, the majority of non-regulators who testified were ordinary people: teachers, parents, musicians, holistic practitioners, a pilot, and several small farmers. These represented some 400,000 estimated raw milk drinkers in Illinois, by some estimates.
Many shared information and personal healing stories from raw milk and real food when medical options failed. Some testified in favor of fair rules, while others argued that people should be able to continue to purchase the foods of their choice without government interference.
Your heavy handed attempts at overregulation are destroying the specialty crop industry as related to milk producers. Tim Moore
As proposed, the underlying purpose of these regulations is to stop the sale of raw milk. small farmer
Probably the most convincing testimony came from small-farm-owner Cliff McConville of Barrington Natural Farms, who presented results from a survey of local, small farmers he personally conducted, showing how the new rules would adversely impact nearly two-thirds of small producers. His results:
-Only 14% would obtain the permit
-46% would continue to produce without a permit
-25% would stop selling raw milk
-21% were unsure
Thus, the survey results suggest that many producers would either go underground, or would shut down due to the expenditures needed to comply with operational and recordkeeping requirements, since half or more earn less than $15,000 annually. Further, these rules would not only compromise the local food initiative, but also discourage small sustainable farms and local economies, as well as cut state revenue at a time Illinois faces bankruptcy.
What IDPH needs to know, according to a number who testified, is that there are two raw milks; one for pasteurization and one for consumption. Dead milk vs. live milk. Factory farm GMO-fed, sick cows vs. grass-fed, healthy cows. Raw milk dairies should not be made to conform to the low standards of dirty commercial dairies that must pasteurize a toxic product. Any true health-based raw milk standard should be vetted at the level of raw milk to reflect the health of the source, the cow.
IDPH is not qualified to make law over natures law. I respect your way of life and I ask that you respect mine. Keith Sparks, pilot
If theres not a problem, why fix it? People should be able to purchase the food they want for their families without government interference. Jonathan Sharr, businessman
You cannot legislate responsibility and that is what this legislation attempts to do. Michael Detweiler, Chiropractor
The anger, confusion, and frustration expressed by the approximately 75 people present at the hearing reflect the relationship real people have with real food. The testimony was reflective of the 800-plus comments IDPH says it has already received, and that prompted the agency to extend the comment period until December 4; comments can be submitted here.
Passions run high when people see their freedoms being siphoned away. The fate of the proposed raw milk rule-making remains to be seen. So long as Dean Foods and the FDA have their hands in what should be a local process, you know the odds are tough. Surprisingly, it’s the volume and intensity of comments that have kept the process going as long as it has. More will clearly be needed for any hope to keep raw dairy afloat in Illinois.
When we would ask patients how much they smoke or drink, we would take the number they gave us and double it as the doubled number was most often closer to what they really smoked or drank.
I can see why dean foods is scared. Dean foods and the fda have their hands in each others pockets. All about money and power.
Since it is about money and power, the best way to advance is to hit them in the wallet. People need to stop buying dairy from the grocery stores. Find all dean brands and ban them. They will only listen when it hurts their wallet.
What I’m trying to figure out is, is the proposed bill trying to make a legal way for raw milk sales in IL? Or is it trying to restict or regulate the sales already happening?
Also, I did look over the proposed new rules (albeit, in a rather skimming sort of way)…I’m wondering what specifically are small raw milk producers finding that is cost prohibitive? Is there a big licensing fee? A $100,000 bottle capper and acres of concrete (as per CA)?
I get that there is just opposition in general to new regulation where no regulation has previously exisited. People understandably don’t like to give up freedom. I’m just trying to figure out if raw milk farmers and consumers actually feel like certain parts of the proposal are inappropriate and not economically scaleable, and thus are negotiating for a good raw milk micro-dairy law that works, or if they just oppose regulations in general.
Do you have a link to the proposed new rules? I’d like to read the same one you did. I’m wondering some of the things you are (like what these producers find cost prohibitive), and will post my comment by itself shortly.
I’ve already asked the question, and even though I haven’t gotten all the answers, I’m going to continue with my comment anyway. I really resent being lumped into the “factory farm, low standards, commercial dairy”, just because I’m not a “raw milk produced for drinking” farm nor am I a raw milk drinker myself (how I drink my milk doesn’t matter in my book). I know plenty of people who produce milk that grass feed their cows, and some of them drink it raw, some of them don’t. I also realize that there are those who like to get by with the minimum quality required to hold on to their dairy permit. Those people exist everywhere, and whether anyone reading this knows it, there ARE legal limits when producing milk for pasteurization. A good deal of regulations have tightened over the past few years, and I’ve heard they will only get stricter. I’ve also seen the UGLY side of conventional milk. The thing in common with a good portion of the violators is they are MEGA farms. Do I need to say anymore? The latest ‘news’ affected A LOT of milk from a massive farm (multiple thousands of cows). An unscrupulous act done deliberately to keep milk in the tank (three of us agreed they had inside information in order to attempt to try and get away with it). I’ve gotten the scuttlebutt from several different, unrelated sources.
I do think that the regulations proposed as far as records keeping is a little excessive (including all the other paperwork and the like). However, milking in an area with overhead protection to prevent contamination, walls and floors made of a smooth, easily cleanable material (I don’t know if they allow painted surfaces or not), no swine or fowl is not that difficult, nor is it extremely expensive (this is coming from someone who isn’t even getting any milk $$ right now, and just went through re-inspection in order to sell milk again–been off the market too long, so this is a requirement). I haven’t seen what is proposed except for what I’ve mainly read on this blog, but could probably come up with an economical solution. I don’t know about anyone else, but if milk produced for drinking raw is somehow ‘cleaner’ than milk intended for pasteurization, avoiding contamination should be top priority (especially foreign matter–anything that should not be in clean milk. Flies anyone?). Open buckets/pails, exposure to the elements, insects, and odor from other livestock (notably swine) at a farm where raw drinking milk is produced would turn me off in a second. I get plenty of exposure to microbes, bacteria, and whatnot, I just don’t want it in my milk or food.
As I understand the law, it is illegal for raw milk farmers to advertise or sell their milk in stores. You have to drive out to the farm to buy it.
But it’s perfectly legal for grocery stores to sell all the Big Ag products with hydrogenated oils in them, which harden your arteries. Some countries have banned these, the main cause of modern heart disease, but in Illinois you don’t even find a warning label on these foods. No labels for GMOs, which are also legal. No labels or warnings on the produce that was grown with poison pesticides and herbicides. The meat, most all of which came from factory farms, no labels showing the animals were doped with hormones, steroids, antibiotics, … You can buy all the corporate slop food you want, but you can’t even buy real milk there. All the dairy in that store will have been deadened by pasteurization.
And that’s not enough for the psychopaths in government. They don’t want anyone being able to buy real food. They want everyone sickly. And as I’ve said repeatedly, all you people who concede fictional points to the government, assuming the rash of recent “disease outbreaks” that just happen to coincide with Internet interest in raw milk health benefits, assuming these are genuine events when more likely they are business as usual government stunts, your denial of thousands of years of raw milk history among the healthiest longest lived peoples, your denial of all the “collateral damage” of lives saved just from Asthma each year, not to mention how many other diseases raw milk heals and prevents… you are not helping the cause. You are greasing the skids for the complete banning of real milk by the Sickness Industry.
Several articles back I posted some info on the new proposed Illinois laws. I couldn’t read them all because I was getting nauseous, but here’s what I wrote:
“I just read thru these proposed new amendments to Illinois raw milk law, and have a knot in my stomach. Here’s a few items:
They start the amendment section by feeling the need to insert a paragraph of government propaganda about raw milk: ” The consumption of raw milk increases the risk of food borne illness because the milk may contain harmful organisms.” As we all know, raw milk actually decreases the risk of food borne illness because it is loaded with protective microbes that colonize your gut, and because it is full of minerals and vitamins you can absorb, keeping your body fluids at optimal ph levels, etc., protecting you from disease.
“Clinical and epidemiological studies have established a direct association between gastrointestinal illness and the consumption of raw milk.” Another lie. The health giving intestinal flora from raw milk actually protects you from gastrointestinal illness. Professors who publish pro raw milk findings risk being fired or losing their grant money.
“Proper pasteurization of raw milk is the only proven, reliable method to decrease the amount of harmful organisms to levels safe for human consumption.” I suppose thousands of years of recorded history of the healthiest longest lived peoples on the planet drinking raw milk safely can’t be considered proven or reliable according to big pharma controlled government logic?
So we see the new amendments begin, after first defining terms, with a rehash of establishment lies about raw milk. Here are some more items:
“The dairy farm owner shall maintain a log of each raw milk sale or transaction with consumer name, address, phone number and date of sale for one year from the date of sale.” Does any other business in the US have to keep records like this??
“A dairy farm shall not make milk products, such as, but not limited to, cheese or yogurt, from raw milk for sale to consumers.” There goes the cheese and yogurt I used to buy weekly from my farmer.
“A dairy farm that participates in sales or distribution of raw milk shall post a placard at the point of sale or distribution that is noticeable to consumers that reads: “WARNING: This product has not been pasteurized and, therefore, may contain pathogens that cause serious illness, especially in children, the elderly, women who are pregnant and in persons with weakened immune systems.” The placard shall be written in a legible font, such as Arial, and in black ink. The size of the letters on the placard shall be no less than 2 inches in height.” Do people who sell cantaloupes or meat or pasteurized milk have to put warnings like this on their food? Is the farmer allowed to put up a sign that tells the truth about the safety of raw milk, that it cures serious illness and the risk of illness is less than zero ie you are safer drinking it than not drinking it?
“The dairy farm shall provide the consumer with Department-approved consumer awareness information with each sale or transaction.” The farmer has to give each customer at each sale government propaganda about raw milk??
“The following shall be provided to the consumer either through container labeling or product receipt: …
Instructions for the consumer to notify the local health department for the area in which the consumer resides of a consumer complaint or suspected foodborne illness.” Do cantaloupes or any other food come with these instructions? If your child is poisoned by a forced vaccination and develops autism, can you call the local health department and have them investigate?
Here’s an interesting one: “Swine or poultry shall not be housed with lactating dairy animals.” People, get the word out, barns, the thing that has been used on farms for eons, they don’t work. OMG! How did people ever survive with more than one type of farm animal in the barn?? Hey, maybe we should make the small farmer buy a separate barn for each chicken? You can never be too careful with them microbes.
“Teats shall be treated with a sanitizing solution just prior to the time of milking” Mmm, just what I want in my milk, a poison sanitizer. Yum. And what happens to the normal microbes that lived on the teat before being poisoned? What moves in when they move out? And there’s a hole into the cow’s body there isn’t there?
“Milking shall take place in an area with overhead protection to prevent contamination of the raw milk; walls and floors shall be made of a smooth, easily cleanable material…” There goes the wooden barn.
“For every day of a sale or distribution transaction, two raw milk samples shall be kept a minimum of 14 days. One sample shall be stored between 32°F and 40°F in a sanitary container, be at least 6 ounces and be labeled with the date of the production. The second sample shall be kept in a frozen state, be at least 6 ounces and be labeled with the date of production.” Heck, just buy another refrig and hire a few more people to keep track of all this.
You get the idea. I can’t keep reading this. Signing off.”
For those of you that can’t grasp how incredibly evil this big money network is, those of you that believe in the endless stream of government lies you’ve been hearing your whole life, please move on to a new cause (soy milk? or whatever), and leave real milk alone. Thank you.
According to RSA 184:79 a milk producer who is also a distributor and who sells more than an average of 80 quarts (20 gallons) of milk a day is classified as a producer/distributor. A producer/distributor must have a Milk Sanitation License unless exempted by RSA 184:84 V.
Exemptions from Licensing:
If less than an average of 80 quarts (20 gallons) of raw milk are sold per day and the milk is only sold directly from the producer to the consumer from the producers own farm, farm stand or at a farmers market and if the milk is not sold to or used by a licensed milk plant, then no license or permit is necessary.
RSA 184:84 V exempts milk producer-distributors who process less than 20 gallons of raw milk per day into raw milk cheese aged at least 60 days, cream, yogurt, butter or kefir from licensing provided they only sell their products directly to the consumer from their own farm or farm stand or at a farmers market within the State of New Hampshire. Producer-distributors who qualify for this exemption are required to clearly label their product with the name of the product, their farm name, address and phone number and the following statement: This product is made with raw milk and is exempt from New Hampshire licensing and inspection.
But I can’t find any reporting on the thousands of sicknesses and deaths from raw milk in New Hampshire. Strange.
Keep in mind that these heavy handed attempts at overregulation are not merely an assault on only raw milk producers. Such tactics have been used to manipulate small family farms as a whole in order to control the supply of food including milk, that is destined for pasteurization or not.
What the powers that be dont want to see is a two-price system for milk. The fact that there are a growing number of people willing to pay a premium for raw milk undermines their monopolistic cheap food policies, and this really gets under their skin.
Those who wish to consume raw milk had better prepare themselves to stick their necks out on the line for that 46% of the producers who would continue to produce without a permit. For those 14% who would choose to get a permit, my sympathy is with them.
Rosanne states, Raw milk dairies should not be made to conform to the low standards of dirty commercial dairies that must pasteurize a toxic product.
Whether or not it is a toxic product prior to pasteurization is relative to our definition of toxic and each particular dairy farms protocol, i.e. chlorinated cleaners and sanitizers, antibiotics, insecticides etc. It most certainly becomes a toxic product however following pasteurization.
Ken
To my knowledge, I have not seen your farm, so I cannot comment on it. I have seen other farms and they do qualify for being lumped into “”factory farm, low standards, commercial dairy”,”. My friend in California who has race horses, is right next door to a small dairy, about 75-100 head and they produce for commercial sales. There are chickens all over the place and the milking barn which is always opened (more like a cheap tin shed,) was horribly dirty, the dust on top of the holding tank was thick, the area around the milking area was hock deep in sludge.. I could go on about that place.
The dairies south of Sacramento on both Highway 99 and 5 are commercial dairies, larger than 100 head and those cows are constantly knee deep in their own crap, and the stench! OMG You have to hold your breath as you drive through the area, you are either light headed from holding your breath or from the horrid stench.
There are raw milk dairies that I wouldn’t touch their milk either. I am far from a germaphobe. There are many reasons why people should educate themselves regarding the foods they consume.
GMO potatoes are OK’d for sale in the US now, I don’t want gmos in my food (along with a lot of other things), but with our current system, they don’t have to tell me what the do to the food, I don’t get a choice.
http://www.insidehalton.com/news-story/4955266-cider-mill-owner-plans-to-press-on/
The wheels of regulatory and media speculation continue to turn. Ive been buying my cider from this Mennonite family for years.
Notice how the article begins by stating as if it is a given fact, that the cider was responsible.
Yet if you read on it becomes apparent that the incident is far proven.
Local and federal food inspectors have taken a close look at Martin’s apple press operation and found no other problems Currently they are meeting all regulatory food safety requirements from both agencies,” Komorowski said. “They’re in full compliance with that.”
The article goes on, Martin, who’s been making his own cider the same way for over 20 years, says public health officials are only “trying to scare you.”
“They figure there was E. coli in there but they couldn’t prove it,” he said.
Many of his customers are Mennonites who have been drinking unpasteurized milk and apple cider all of their lives and have antibodies that protect them from bacteria, he said.
The health benefits of raw cider far outweigh the risks, he said. But problems occur when people who aren’t used to unpasteurized food, often those in urban areas, consume it, he said.
“They don’t have anything in their immune system,” Martin said. “Anyone who really wants to be healthy should be drinking unpasteurized milk, and unpasteurized apple juice. But down in town, they’re never exposed to it.”
Ken
New Hampshire provides a great example of sensible tiered regulation. There are provisions for inspections and testing for both very small and larger producers, and the regs are understandable. So it’s possible in New Hampshire to buy raw milk from small producers at the farm or at farmers markets. It’s also possible to buy from larger producers at retail, via health food stores and co-ops (which function like supermarkets in a number of large towns). The milk sold at retail does contain warning signs, both from the retailer’s signage and milk labels, that the milk is unpasteurized and could cause illness in children and those with depressed immune systems.
As you suggest, there haven’t been any illnesses in recent memory. As someone who buys raw milk in New Hampshire, I can testify that it is a relaxed and open system, worthy of the state’s motto. I have a sense that the FDA strong-arm types wouldn’t be very welcome here.
Shawna, when you say you are reading “conflicting information” about what the proposed IL regulations provide, there is a reason for that: the proposed regulations aren’t clear in many respects. When they were first issued last September, I was asked by a Chicago radio station to help explain the regs, and I had to beg off because I simply couldn’t be sure what they provide in key areas. For example, there are provisions for two tiers of producers, but I can’t tell you what the exact differences are. As others have pointed out, there seem to be provisions that could be interpreted as providing that even the smallest producers build expensive additional structures.
One thing I did tell the Chicago radio station is that the proposed rules get off to a very bad start by arguing that the new regs are essential because all raw milk sales in Illinois have been and continue to be illegal under federal law (see quote from proposed regs at the end of this comment).
This is just not true, from everything I’ve read. Federal law prohibits interstate sales and distribution of raw milk. Beyond that, raw milk sales are a state matter. So, to my way of thinking, if these proposed regulations are so misguided in their basic premise, then I probably can’t trust other provisions.
Because many of the remaining provisions are unclear, that leaves them open to varying interpretations. Of course, we all know that if key stuff is open to interpretation, the state will always interpret the vague stuff totally against the dairy producer.
One of the great things about the New Hampshire regulations, which Bagaduce Farms refers to in a comment after this, is that the regs are clear and specific. They come from a desire to be constructive and workable for producers while simultaneously protecting public health. From everything I have seen about the Illinois regulations, beginning with their legal premise, they come from a desire to confuse and make doing business untenable for many small dairies, while not doing anything positive for public health.
“This rulemaking will address the procedures for permitting and inspecting dairy farms that sell or distribute raw milk from the premises of the dairy farm directly to consumers. This practice has occurred for over 30 years without rules. Per the Act, the practice of selling raw milk from the premises of the dairy farm must be done in accordance with rules. In the absence of rules and with Illinois adoption of the federal Pasteurized Milk Ordinance, raw milk sales are currently prohibited. This rulemaking will create a two-tiered permitting system for sales or distribution of raw milk from the premises of the dairy farm to consumers, given that certain requirements are met.”
As for the open buckets, I read a Craigslist ad from someone who was offering herd shares, and said ALL the cows were milked by hand. I was at an Amish farm once, and they were hand milking the goats. The milkhouse was exceptionally clean, and the milk got filtered/cooled in a bulk tank, but the goats were in part of a barn not designed for milking, and had a stand for 5 goats at a time. While I was there, someone showed up, and left with a jar of milk.
My chickens usually run, and I have a hard time keeping them out of where I milk. I have an open style flat parlor, and it was approved by the state. Everything was built from the ground up, so it had to get okayed first. I’m surprised these dairies are able to keep milking. They would have never passed inspection in my state. It would have been marked on the inspection sheet, and if it hadn’t been corrected by the next time the inspector showed up, they’d have been issued a warning, with 10 days or so to correct it, or get their permit suspended/pulled depending on how many or type of violations. It used to be (when I first got into dairy), if you got caught with antibiotic residue in your milk, three strikes, then you were out. Now it only takes one time.
Article: http://www.realmilk.com/european-study-shows-connection-consumption-raw-milk-lower-infections-children/
“…an inverse association between consumption of unprocessed cows milk and rhinitis [cold or runny nose], RTI [respiratory tract infections], and otitis [ear infection]. The effect was strongest when cows milk was consumed raw; boiled farm milk exhibited an attenuated effect.
This study shows that we are now not talking about asthma and allergies, but fever and infections in young children. It means there is additional new evidence that raw milk is a protective agent in infectious diseases in young children, says Prof. Dr. Ton Baars, a senior scientist for milk quality and animal welfare at the Research Institute of Organic Agriculture in Germany.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16512802 – Allergic diseases and atopic sensitization in children related to farming and anthroposophic lifestyle–the PARSIFAL study.
Inverse association of farm milk consumption with asthma and allergy in rural and suburban populations across Europe. – http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17456213
Applied and Environmental Microbiology, Nov 1982 44(5):1154-1158:
Prevalence and Survival of Campylobacter jejuni in Unpastuerized Milk by Michael P. Doyle and Debra J. Roman. In the paper, the authors provide a chart (above) showing the reduction in campylobactera reduction that can only be described as dramatic.
“The authors inoculated raw milk with eight different strains of Campylobacter jejuni, shown by the different curves in this figure. Only three of these strains are from human sources (a fact Rose omits from her report). All strains do show reduction in pathogens with time. The only line without a steep decline (the steeper the line the faster the pathogens were dying) tracks a nonhuman strain.”
Letters in Applied Microbiology 28(1):89-92:
Researchers Massa, Goffredo, Altieri and Natola inoculated seven different strains of E. coli O157:H7 into fresh unprocessed whole milk to determine their fate after days of storage. they spiked the milk with extraordinarily high numbers of each pathogen (1,000,000 per mlDoyle and Roman used 10,000,000 per ml). Even with these huge numbers of pathogens, the E. coli O157:H7 strains failed to grow and died off gradually. Actually, the purpose of this research was not to determine whether the pathogens were being killed, but whether it was acceptable to store milk at 8°C ( 46°F) rather than the standard 5° C (41° F). The authors conclude that the colder temperature should be used as the standard.
Australian Journal of Dairy Technology 54(2):90-93:
researchers Pitt, Harden and Hull used lower amounts of inocula of a different pathogen, Listeria monocytogenes, introduced into raw milk, but unlike the others they kept the milk at temperatures that optimize the growth of these bacteria (98.6° F). After fifty-six hours, no viable cells of L. mono were detectable.
Milchwissenschaft 2000 55(5):249-252):
The growth ofStaph. aureus, S. enteritidis, and L. monocytogenes in raw milk at 37° C was reduced markedly compared to the growth of these organisms in pasteurized milk
Categorize under Government Programs, sub-category Suppression of Human Beings. Also categorize under Tip-of-the-iceberg.
A going-on-this-moment clandestine population control program disguised as a vaccination program is the subject of a statement by Kenyan Bishops.
Read more, including now an update: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/piadesolenni/did-the-kenyan-bishops-just-expose-who-unicef/#ixzz3IhNYNRdp
The above cited horror is from the medical community. The Food Safety Modernization Act (FSMA) community has its own little chest of horrors for us.
The medical communitys hypnotic icon is the draped stethoscope. I wonder what the FSMA communitys hypnotic icon is?
The corruption of the foundation(s) of civilization must be recognized. And addressed.
You could be as old rich as a Rockefeller, as rich and smart and as sophisticated as Bill and Melinda Gates, as rich as the guy that owns Sees Candy and GEICO, oh yeah, Warren Buffet, as rich as Facebooks Zuckerberg, and not respect human life. There is an old saying that “The fool has said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that does good.”
And “Rob not the poor, because he is poor: neither oppress the afflicted in the gate: For the Lord will plead their cause, and spoil the soul of those that spoiled them.”
Money, fame, spirit associates, and behind-the-scenes-power will not and cannot secure exemption or rescue from the soul spoilage described. A change of mind and heart followed by deeds that show it is the only hope for those that have put themselves on this list to get off of this list.
Mr. J. Ingvar Odegaard
As the saying goes, we ain’t seen nuthin’ yet. If a person were to start a list of all the things we shouldn’t be trusting of, it could potentially go on for several pages. I’m actually surprised that food and food rights are even on their radar. I mean, they have so many other big things to bonk us with.
I was pleased to see you include Mr Martin’s quote that he believes there are 2 populations of consumers when it comes to the safety of unpasteurized cider or milk. 1 Farm families who appear relatively resistant to STECs and other zoonoses and 2 non-farm families who tend to be more susceptible. The recent conversation on TPC was about 2 ‘raw milks’. Maybe the notion of 2 ‘consumers’ should be added to such a dialogue? There was also an article today in the European press indicating some important progress towards a vaccine for use in humans against enterotoxigenic E coli. I cannot imagine that this is a solution that would find favour on TPC blog, but it is likely to appeal elsewhere (especially if there is movement to relax restrictions on such products as unpasteurized milk and juices…..hence an increased argument to vaccinate and protect the susceptible).
And by the way, I cannot think of any reason why pasteurization of milk would increase it’s toxicity.
You can’t? Then why have people died from pasteurized products and none from raw? There must be something that goes on with the pasteurization process that the human body doesn’t like.
Pretty soon they will have vaccines against stupidity and a few other “maladies” THEY think we have. I can’t think of one area of life where they wouldn’t be able to say, eventually, “we have a vaccine for that” . . . but that is not to say they work. It doesn’t stop the pharma companies from trying though, does it? Same with pills – a pill for every ill. Heck, maybe even two pills for one ill. Talk about marketing to fools.
http://www.epitopix.com/prod-cattle-ecoli
Add in homogenization as well. Destroy all the bacteria and break down the fat structure. You get all these random bits and pieces of dead bugs and other former-cells floating around, none of these bits and pieces intended for human consumption, none found in any sizable quantities in other foods. No-one cares what damage these do, that maybe they irritate the gut wall or might even be so small as to pass through it and trigger an allergic reaction as the body tries to fight them off.
Does the big agrifood/factory-pharm industry care? They certainly don’t, because of course if you can cause more allergies, you can sell more drugs.
Shawna. Vaccinating the cows is a good idea. We have a Bioniche vaccine here that seems quite effective. The downside to most vaccines is that they don’t always work in 100% of individuals, plus these enteric bacteria are ‘in hiding’ somewhat. I think most people would still want to behave as if there was still some shedding by their animals (but others might use it as an excuse that they can be sloppy). Estimates of <10 organisms as potentially disease-causing is the scary part for me (ie what scale of reduction is sufficient?). Hygiene at milking will still be an essential component in vaccinated cows, I'd say.
Thankyou both for your replies.
John
http://www.techtimes.com/articles/19951/20141111/meet-chlorovirus-atcv-1-a-virus-that-can-make-humans-more-stupid.htm
Scientists at the University of Nebraska and John Hopkins Medical School reveal that the ATCV-1 virus infects the green algae found in freshwater ponds and lakes. Previously, scientists believed that the virus was not harmful to humans; however, latest study reveals that the virus can affect cognitive functioning in human brain, which can shorten attention span and also cause reduced spatial awareness.
Ken
http://www.nvic.org/CMSTemplates/NVIC/pdf/Live-Virus-Vaccines-and-Vaccine-Shedding.pdf
Here’s some leads on the 1918 “flu” epidemic that killed millions. Says it happened just after the largest vaccination program in history. http://www.whale.to/vaccine/sf1.html
Most of my nieces and nephews have weird diseases now, asthmas, peanut allergies, … unlike our generation, and obviously these weird conditions are created by vaccines. Hey, let’s experiment on the cows and see what happens. Yippee!
Pasteurized milk = little dead microbial corpses = degeneration, corruption, decay and poor health
If allowed to sit at room temperature raw milk will sour and keep for months. Even to this day fish and meat products are still immersed in soured milk in order to preserve them. Pasteurized milk on the other had will putrefy.
There are a lot of city folk over the last 40 or more years that have purchased Jacob Martins apple cider on the farm and at the farmers market yet only three individuals to date have supposedly become ill from the cider???
Your 2 raw milks 2 consumers idea is a step in the right direction albeit a mere snapshot of a highly complex story.
How do you propose to get it off the ground and running in light of the current fear driven antagonistic attitude to microbes that pervade society?
My experience with and knowledge of both human and animal vaccines prompts me to steer clear of them; i.e. I want nothing to do with them. Heading down that path is akin to playing Russian roulette.
Ken
I’m not a huge vaccine fan myself, but I think it could play a part in a comprehensive plan to decrease the prevelence of shedding. E Coli 0157 is a nasty by-product of industrial farming, and unfortunately it doesn’t always stay on the CAFO. Its not a substitute for clean practices, though, as MrJohn suggests.
I know the sentiment around here about pasteurized milk. I do know people who prefer peace of mind–regardless of what raw milk advocates say. Earlier this year, a new home delivery route got added to my area by a small processor who sells his Jersey cow, cream line milk that has been low temp pasteurized (doesn’t get above 145 degrees F.). His farm is over an hour a way, but a survey had been sent out in a local town ‘shopper’ paper requesting anyone that was interested to contact them. He also sells at a local farmer’s market, and my friends sell his milk in their shop. It sells out completely on a regular basis, even though his milk is priced more than double of that from the store (any store that sells milk).
Could you reference the vaccine you described?
There are several brands of vaccines available for ecoli that I am aware of. Some are administered orally to the calf and others such as the Heinz 67 variety listed below are inactivated (killed) and injected into the cow.
http://www.msd-animal-health.co.nz/Products/RotavecCorona_/020_ProductDetails.aspx
Active Ingredients:
Contains inactivated Bovine rotavirus, Bovine coronavirus and E. coli antigens.
And if you click on the Rotavex Corona Label at the base of the page you will notice that there are several other ingredients to consider, such as, aluminium hydroxide gel, mineral oil and Thiomersal (an organomercury compound).
There are undoubtedly other ingredients/contaminants not mentioned that are present in the culture medium as well.
Indications:
For the active immunisation of pregnant cows and heifers to raise antibodies against E. coli adhesin F5 (K99) antigen, rotavirus and coronavirus. While the calves are fed colostrum from vaccinated cows during the first two to four weeks of life, these antibodies have been demonstrated to:
– Reduce the severity of diarrhoea caused by E. coli F5 (K99)
– Reduce the incidence of scours caused by rotavirus
– Reduce the shedding of virus by calves infected with rotavirus or coronavirus.
The assumption is that ecoli is responsible for the diarrhea, however considering the ubiquitous nature of the microbe, is it indeed responsible???
The best way to limit scours (diarrhea) in calves is to ensure that they dont engorge themselves on milk. Rarely does a calf succumb to scours if it has free access to nurse on its mother. The stage is set however, for a lot of problems if you subject that calf to the stress of weaning and feed it to much milk and or milk replacer a couple of times a day rather then the multitude of times per day that the calf would normally nurse on its mother if allowed free access.
Come to think of it, with respect to the apple cider incident, it is not uncommon for people especially children to engorge themselves on cider or whatever else tickles their fancy.
Ken
It can be done.
All I see in MrJohns statement is a recipe for society-wide managed ill-health ending in death by starvation and stupidity at the hands of those that are well down the road of accomplishing those very objects at present, following the recipe and that have conned our society at large into not being wary or even aware of it.
Thanks for any help.
Mr. J. Ingvar Odegaard
Weird diseases have weird causes. I think the gist of that story I linked is on the money. But I say “leads” because people linked there are also against good things like salt and cooking. Those 14 super healthy cultures documented in Weston Price’s Nutrition and Physical Degeneration of the 1930s, all added salt to their diet. And as I’ve mentioned repeatedly, they were immune to things like tuberculosis, which was epidemic in the 1930s, and the immunity was due to eating mineral rich, whole foods, not weird vaccinations.
This is a great two part article (or podcast, whichever you prefer) regarding the “life” of e-coli. It’s much more than a bacteria.
Part 1: http://www.scientificamerican.com/podcast/episode/everything-you-ever-wanted-to-know-08-10-08/
Part 2: http://www.scientificamerican.com/podcast/episode/everything-you-ever-wanted-to-know-08-10-09/
And for indications: http://www.epitopix.com/prod-cattle-ecoli
This is a different vaccine than the once you reference. It was developed with food safety in mind to minimized the fecal shedding of E Coli 0157 specifically. It has no effect on the many other strains of E Coli. It also has no positive impact on cattle health, because as you know, cattle are not sickened by 0157. The purpose is to decrease the prevelence of 0157 in the manure shed on a farm or in a feed lot, and by doing so, reduce the chance of human illness.
In a CAFO, cows easily pick up bacteria from each other as there is a high concentration of manure in a small space, and no grass and healthy soil microbes to compost and break down that manure. As a result, there is typically a lot of STEC on CAFOs, STEC that cover hides of cattle on their way to slaughter, making contamination a real issue.
In a low-stocking density, pastured, closed herds, as are typically kept for raw milk production, one would already expect that the presence of STEC would be much lower than a CAFO environment. However, we have still seen this bug show up on occasion in low-risk herds. My theory is that cows pick up the bacteria somewhere in the environment (surface water, wildlife, new cows?) and the conditions are just right for transient shedding…meaning they shed the bacteria in their feces for a short period, and then its gone. That is where the E Coli vaccine could take the risk of herd shedding even lower for the raw milk herd. In theory anyway.
At the end of the day, clean milking procedures are sill obviously the best plan for avoiding contamination and illness.
Your theory doesn’t hold up to real world evidence. In nature, wild animals are always touching and licking everyone and everything. Instead of “contaminating” them and making them ill, they thrive on this exposure. Their systems are acquainted with and integrated with the microbes that live in their world.
Your live-in-a-plastic-bubble, antibacterial soap, hide from reality philosophy only leads to disease. E Coli is nothing new and there never was a problem with natural raw milk and e coli historically. Even if it were true that e coli is new, you better get used to it because it is everywhere. Stop running and learn the time tested keys to good health, (and stop reading govt propaganda). We have real threats to our food supply and health at every turn, we don’t need to make things up. Come out of the plastic bubble and join Reality.
Add to that their training is controlled by the government, and 99 percent of academia has no idea of how the government is really controlled behind the scenes. Do not be fooled by their arrogance and knowledge of some Latin terms. These people are extremely dangerous, and the epidemic level of disease all around you is proof of this.
These people are taught in their propaganda textbooks that basically Nature doesn’t work, and they need to fix it. They are taught that early man lived only into his 40s, and now people are living longer, healthier lives than ever, due to the wonders of “modern medicine”. The only problem is it’s fiction. Real world evidence, such as Weston Price’s pictures, and evidence from Hunza, Armenia, Titicaca, and other isolated places shows humans used to live into their hundreds in good health, and kept all their teeth, and their teeth were straight… But modern doctors and dentists are clueless about this.
Even before all the current assaults on our health, gmos, poison pesticides, herbicides, sanitizers, mercury, vaccinations, pasteurization, food additives, … there was refined sugar, that was exported around the world by the Global system, and ruined the health of so many. That’s why George Washington had no teeth. And there were serfs living on their conquered lands, eating very poor diets, who became short in stature (see medieval knights armor), and suffered lots of illnesses due to this malnutrition. BUT, around the world, people who ate their mineral rich whole foods were super healthy and long lived by today’s standards.
I was listening to this goat farmer, who talks about how he keeps antibiotics somewhere, but can’t even remember where because he never uses them because his goats are always allowed to graze in fields filled with “weeds”, where they can eat what they are naturally drawn to, and they don’t get sick because of their rich, diverse diets. And no, he doesn’t keep them in plastic bubbles. And remember what that one medical doctor says, who’s kept track of doctors’ obituaries. The life span of doctors is 58 vs 75 for the general public. Dead Doctors Don’t Lie. These people are dangerous.
The Homeopathic hospitals, which still existed at that time before they were shut down by regulations, and who rejected the use of pharmaceutical drugs, had next to no deaths.
Oh, and giving toxic vaccines to cows in an attempt to make them healthier is well, just backwards. That is not the way to produce truly healthy raw milk.
The first line of defense for the GI tract is not the die off of bacteria but rather a well-balanced flora.
It is estimated that 100 trillion microbes collectively reside in the human body with the majority found in our gut.
Indeed, there is a continual huge die off of bacteria in our gut however if our digestive system is healthy then the bacteria are replenished and assimilated as quickly as they perish. The main purpose for the die off of these bacteria is to provide us with valuable nutrients when we digest them.
Ken
At the beginning of the first sentence in the first paragraph of the article you provided the company states, Now theres a weapon in the battle against Escherichia coli
Their statement immediately arouses my indignation. For them its about winning a battle or a war; a war, which they fail to realize is already lost if they pursue such an approach.
The fact that one has to revaccinate annually with a 60-day withholding period before harvest is also cause for concern. Hopefully the vaccine will not be approved for use on milking dairy cattle or pregnant animals.
Ken
Sorry, maybe I should have said the acidic stomach is the second line of defence in reducing bacterial numbers and diversity to protect the lower bowel. In humans, we have learned the first line is to reduce the overall numbers of bacteria we ingest (in case some ‘bad bugs’ might make it past the stomach and wreak havoc in the lower bowel environment). I think the strategies are pretty obvious (e.g. avoiding spoiled food, cooking food and not ingesting faeces). My personal favourite example is the use of knives, forks, spoons, chopsticks and such (assumes washing). One of the best ways to acquire microbes that might not serve your best interests (along with some that might) is to eat with your fingers. Little kids can hardly keep their fingers out of their mouths and have rapid passage of digesta (as their gut microbiome is being established). Old guys like me with a stable lower bowel are better advised to make sure their hamburgers are fully cooked and should eat them with a knife and fork.
John
http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2014/11/12/westminster/S9AyaVOciqpDwMRAuuNpgK/story.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rv1zolpbWsM
Wait one little minute…picking on a RAWMI LISTED dairy producer that has done her homework is picking on a community of raw milk producers that take food safety seriously and have a track record to prove it. What Shawna has stated makes complete sense.
Until you can show better more consistent bacteria counts…suggest that you use some constructive tone and some respect with one of our best. We LISTED producers hang together.
I got a call from a consumer in New York today. Her producer has a permit to sell raw milk in NY…he is under recall for listeria right now. The producer then called me wanting help. I asked if he knew his coliform counts…he did not. I asked him if he ever tested for pathogens….he said no. He was really lost when it came to the art of raw milk production. Is this the nirvana you think is so great??
If you produce raw milk for humans….you should not be surprised by tests performed by the state. You should know your numbers.
Gosh Mark, how did the longest lived, healthiest peoples consume raw milk for thousands of years without your coliform counts and “pathogen” tests? And now you guys want to start injecting toxins into the cows? Here, why don’t you tell your theories to these guys in the Dannon tv commercial of 1977:
I think those Georgians are doing pretty good with consistency, living into their hundreds.
I hope its OK with you that for some raw farmers, and a dare say a growing number, responsible production means an awareness that pathogens exist and can make you sick if not properly managed. And there are multiple strategies for management. “Injecting cows with weird chemicals” need not the the only one.
Consumers need to make their own informed choice about their foods they eat and the farms they patronize. My responsibility is to tell the truth about what we do on the farm and why, down to the minutia if my herdshare members will stand it…from how we clean the teat to where we source our hay… and then the milk drinkers have to filter that through their own lens of previous information and experience. Everyone comes to their own conclusion.
The body is continually trying to maintain a state of balance, acidity being a key example. When it comes to acidity extremes are not good. Bacteria play a key role in this regard, as do foods, chemicals, hormones and drugs. The role of bacteria including all microbes is a highly complex one we want to be damn sure we fully understand before we attempt to control it and them.
Ken
The journey we take in this life is defined by the choices we make. And if we are not free to make those choices, the journey is not our own. And the choices we make that involve risk of harm to our physical body, which houses our mind and spirit, those choices are among the most profound choices we make in this life, which is why we must be free to make them.
Ken
I don’t believe in the pathogen theory for milk, and calling these microbes “pathogens” plays into government propaganda. I agree with the numerous posts here by Miguel which say that these microbes are the scapegoats for illness that actually has another cause.
I would have no problem with small farmers testing, if they tested for things that cause disease, such as testing the well water to see if heavy metals from the local landfill were getting into it, or testing the feed for glyphosate residues, or other poisons. That would send a good message and maybe get people away from corporate food, and not single out raw milk as somehow being dangerous.
If you watched that Jack Nicholson clip, I have no problem with people using two brand new bars of soap to wash their hands and then throwing them out, but if that’s the mindset for raw milk, we can kiss it goodbye.
Your statement, I feel like its definitely more my burden to carry than theirs, is a reflection of your sensitive, caring, responsible, and fastidious nature, coupled with the fact that you have been convinced by the John Sheens and Bill Marlers of this world that microbes such as ecoli are responsible for illness and therefore must be curtailed and if possible eradicated.
You would undoubtedly view my attitude if I were a member as nonchalant with respect to risk. Not because I dont fully understand, but because I have a different understanding.
Ken
And Foundation Farms was a fantasy also….
For anyone reading this dialogue, things have changed from the local raw milk and shared farm biomones of many years past. The immunity of consumers has changed….the emerging pathogens created by man made stresses on them are now virulent and kill. These changes must be acknowledged if we are going to have raw milk for people.
Are you suggesting that pathogens of the past such as those responsible for the bubonic plague or leprosy were not virulent and did not kill?
What has changed that makes them more dangerous today then they were 2000 or more years ago?
Microbes such as bacteria have always been around adapting to environmental conditions nurtured by nature and man. They will come and go as they please and will continue to do so despite to our efforts to control them.
Ken
The idea that all of a sudden raw milk changed, right when there was a lot of favorable interest being generated on the Internet for raw milk, is ludicrous. Raw milk didn’t change, the government stepped up their smear campaign to try to shut down this interest.
Anyone who’s read my posts the last several months on the business as usual tactics of the government to sabotage movements they don’t like will see that Foundation Farm and these other bizarre stories would never hold up in any court of law.
If things really had changed, people would be dropping like flies everywhere, and you’d never be able to get away from it because these microbes live everywhere. What is needed is a critical mass of raw milk supporters to understand this and teach others to simply ignore these bizarre new stories, which will probably only continue and get more outrageous. There’s no reason to take seriously anything the government and media cartel say about raw milk as we already know they are determined that it not become more popular. Raw milk doesn’t cause HUS, hospitals do.
And as I said, boat builders don’t need to reinvent boat building because Greenpeace’s ship sank. It sank because the government blew it up. There is a lesson to be learned there, but it’s not about boat building, it’s about how these sleazy people operate.
taken from http://www.kimstallwood.com/2014/09/03/spying-on-animal-rights/
“…the government stepped up their smear campaign to try to shut down this interest.”
Why is raw milk perceived as a threat to PMO milk?
Because PMO milk, as Mark has stated many times, is sinking fast…real fast….
You see, providing Raw Milk direct to consumer COMPLETELY cuts out the industrial middle man…(and the government)
But have no fear….science and technology to the rescue of PMO milk….
—
http://www.wisfarmer.com/news/headlines/partnerships-to-sell-more-fluid-milk-b99385006z1-281620641.html
—
Partnerships to sell more fluid milk
Dairy leaders were optimistic this week about a series of new partnerships with beverage industry giants to boost fluid milk sales.
Seven partnerships were announced by Dairy Management Inc. (DMI) that include projects aimed at helping sell more fluid milk in the United States and in foreign markets particularly China.
The partnerships, they said, represent more than a half billion dollars in industry investment in fluid milk innovation and marketing.
During a teleconference with reporters announcing the new partnerships, DMI CEO Tom Gallagher said his organization interviewed over 50 companies in an effort to “re-ignite the whole category” of fluid milk.
The partners, from across the supply chain include Dairy Farmers of America (DFA); Darigold/Northwest Dairy Association; The Kroger Company; Maryland & Virginia Milk Producers Cooperative Association, Inc.; Shamrock Farms; Southeast Milk, Inc and The Coca-Cola Company.
This is really all about billions and billions of dollars….
at the URL below, is a report of how the Chinese are finding out the hard way, that one of the zoonotic diseases for which swine are a reservoir, is = Tuberculosis
http://www.scmp.com/business/china-business/article/1638500/china-modern-dairy-stock-falls-amid-tuberculosis-probe
first of all, Orientals are never going to drink milk like we do. the Red Communist government is cultivating milk + milk products for the purpose of eugenics = they want taller people, so they’ve decided that drinking milk will bring that about. They think long term. but, like everything else the commies do, they think they can steal or buy Caucasian expertise … in this instance – dairying – they will never get it right.
but bad news for them is good news for the Campaign for REAL MILK. As Canadian milk quota-holders gear up to supply the Chinese demand for powdered milk, pure fresh whole un-adulterated from pastured cows, kept in humane conditions, will become more precious than ever.
Also, perhaps the greatest changes have been in the consumers immunity. No question that the average immune system of the standard American is weak…very weak. Antibiotics, sterile foods, preservatives etc…they all decimate our immunity. So…raw milk from conditions intended for pasteurization ( PMO ) is scary dangerous for some person with a depressed immunity.
Raw milk that has been diligently produced with the intention of being consumed raw is very different. It is low risk.
I am not sure that this idea sinks in around this blog.
Confined cattle, feed-lots, animals being fed massive doses of antibiotics = strains of bugs that weren’t a risk even 100 yrs ago – see http://www.counterpunch.org/2009/10/09/feedlots-and-e-coli .
We fight an uphill battle because we have to “prove” it is low-risk, as Mark says.
But note: “I got a call from a consumer in New York today. Her producer has a permit to sell raw milk in NY…he is under recall for listeria right now. The producer then called me wanting help. I asked if he knew his coliform counts…he did not. I asked him if he ever tested for pathogens….he said no.” Every time a producer like this, someone who isn’t trained and doesn’t test, causes illness, it’s two steps back for the cause of raw milk, because that producer has just proven that their product is NOT “low risk.”
And, sure, your illnesses down there may be rare, but they are still used as “evidence” by the Powers-That-Be up here to keep raw milk illegal. Health Canada, provincial Health Ministries, and our milk marketing cartels trumpet your CDC data, hauling it out whenever they want to make a point. We’ll never legalize it up here as long as “outbreaks” in either country keep making the news.
As long as people like you stay in denial about the fact that it is the government that is behind the outbreaks, we can expect them to continue.
Good point, Shelly. I agree with Mark’s single-minded focus on educating farmers so as to improve safety standards. But, of course, even if raw dairies reduce their illnesses to near-zero, the CDC will still have a steady flow of illnesses (and data!) from the commercial dairies making people sick with their pre-pasteurized milk. That’s why it’s so important to educate people about the CDC and FDA deception with data. The truth is gradually getting out and making an impression. And the CDC, especially, will help us along because they are so incompetent in handling data (and not just numerical data). Stay tuned, more to come on that score, as they bumble their way ever further into disrepute.
taken from: http://mondoweiss.net/2011/01/activists-uncover-fbi-infiltration-of-anti-war-and-solidarity-groups-including-trip-to-israelpalestine
If we could in some sort of informal way follow the spirit of Roberts Rules of Order, we might hear everybody out without anybody being put out.
Here is the URL: http://www.davidberlinski.org/
[click on David Berlinski Uncensored]
All the best,
Mr. J. Ingvar Odegaard
“…attorneys representing the activists recently found hard evidence that the Army was paying Towery not just to spy on peace protestors, but paid him overtime to sit in on meetings about protest plans for the 2008 Democratic and Republican National Conventions–which had nothing to do with Fort Lewis and nothing to do with the Army, and which raise some serious questions about why military dollars are being spent to surveil and disrupt legal, peaceful, and Constitutionally protected protest activities…”
“Why would the US Army even be interested in small time domestic protesters? …’They did a great job… People fled, people got arrested so many times they gave up activism, people have fought an endless parade of criminal charges when they did not, in fact, do anything illegal.’ ”
“…please remember John Towery. I’d bet my eye teeth that he is just the sloppiest, clumsiest tip of an iceberg.”
taken from: http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2013/08/20/new-evidence-that-the-us-army-paid-civilians-to-spy-on-washington-state-anti-war-protesters
His off the cuff remark that, Down Town Brewry Milk in the 1840-1890s killed 50% of those that drank it contradicts his previous statement where he states, For anyone reading this dialogue, things have changed from the local raw milk and shared farm biomones of many years past. The immunity of consumers has changed….the emerging pathogens created by man made stresses on them are NOW virulent and kill. (Emphasis mine)
Claiming that raw milk killed 50% of those that drank it, is a pretty high death rate dont you think; and if compared to today, would suggest that if the microbes in the milk were indeed responsible, then they certainly appeared to be at least equally if not more more virulent and deadly?
The rhetoric that has nurtured such widespread animosity against raw milk in the past was not totally unjustified. However the problem of disease and illness at that time was complex and multifaceted and required a complex and multifaceted solution. The milk produces using brewery waste only represented a small piece of the puzzle.
Working class poverty, deep-rooted corruption, and discrimination nurtured crowded and dirty living conditions. Homes were unheated, and poorly constructed with many people living in squalor. Basement apartments with dirt floors were often wet and muddy. There were pools of stagnant water and heaps of garbage in the streets. There were no sewers, human and animal excrement, and kitchen waste were all thrown into the streets. Food supplies were unreliable, impure, and limited to such a degree that malnutrition was an ongoing problem. Patients under conventional medical treatment were drugged and bled profusely and were given toxic Antimony and Mercury in large doses. The cure likely killed off more patients than the disease or illness did.
By the early 1900s, a wide range of improvements began to drive the mortality rate down. Central heating meant that people especially infants were no longer exposed to icy drafts for hours. Clean drinking water eliminated a common path of infection. More and a greater variety of food meant improved nutrition. Sewers were being installed in the cities, refrigeration was becoming more widely available, and critical medical care was improving.
So what does Mark do, reiterate CDC/FDA dogma!
My belief is that the microbes of the past were not any more dangerous and virulent then they are today. Nor were they any more responsible for disease then they are today. What they did back then is exactly what they are doing today. Responding to the terrain and adjusting there house cleaning tactics accordingly.
Ken
Today, 80 producers, consumers, regulators and professors will meet at Penn State to share and learn about best methods for low risk raw milk production. This is the third annual RAWMI training day. I am so excited that the turn out is that high!! They also paid $70 each to attend. That shows serious interest.
RAWMI not only teaches best practices, but also teaches why raw milk will stay “stuck in the dark ages” if we do not break with the past and embrace excellence for the future !!
Tom, even though I really try to embrace unity….I will say this right now: your particular type of denial is exactly what holds us all back and encourages the governement to marginalize our movement.
I do agree that the governement seems to embrace a corrupt blame game that miss classifies raw milk illnesses. But that is just something that comes with the Food Inc territory. We must all rise above the government back ground noise and truly and seriously pioneer a new reality and market place for low risk raw milk. That is when governement will follow…after we have proven our track records and established our markets. Dollar voting with hard core consumer support will be the solution. Denial of the risk of raw milk feeds the opposition !!! The government does not create raw milk illness….ignorant and uninformed farmers do!! Raw milk becomes low risk AFTER training and a committment to excellence. As currently produced raw milk is all sorts of things. That’s why I got a call from an upstate permitted raw milk producer that is testing positive for listeria. He had no idea what listeria was!!! He saw listeria in his local news paper with his name with it!! His consumers also called me.
That is no way to run a raw milk dairy. A producer must know his numbers and what they mean!!
https://gma.yahoo.com/eating-raw-cookie-dough-led-one-moms-death-231048179–abc-news-topstories.html
I grew up making cookies and other things with mom. We all ate raw cookie dough, licked the the beaters from various things and no one got sick from it. Mom used one cutting board, she rinsed off meats in the sink. We had Orange Julius with raw egg in it, bought from the juice stand.
In the above link, it strongly implies it was NOT the ecoli that killed her, it was the medical care she received, yet I must have missed where the hospital and doctors were sued in the story.
The story just runs on and on about the dough, which during that time, if I recall correctly, was contaminated with ecoli, yet it states the medical community was the cause of death. I guess the medical community’s roll in her death is not to blame?
I guess in this lady’s case, critical care didn’t improve.
“That is when government will follow…after we have proven our track records … The government does not create raw milk illness…”
Mark, there already is a proven track record, and the government has not followed, because the big money gangster network that controls the government does not want us to be healthy, they don’t make any money off good health, the big money is in Sickness. Not to mention other economic reasons that have been mentioned here.
Mark, I don’t mind you constantly spelling my name wrong, but please read the dozen or so posts I have made recently showing how the government infiltrates and sabotages all movements they consider a threat to the Big Money Gangster Network that controls the government. Folks that drop bombs on children in other countries have no problem arranging stunts here to discredit real milk. Every other organized effort against these gangsters has been infiltrated and sabotaged. Why on earth would you think raw milk is somehow immune? Good luck with your conference.
Mark, appreciate your sincerity on this and am glad for the training this weekend. Should be a great event. But the upstate New York situation is not a good example of raw dairy safety problems. New York’s Dept of Ag and Markets has been going after raw dairies in that state over listeria for at least eight years. I included a number of examples in my first book, The Raw Milk Revolution, of how NY shut down otherwise fine dairies over this problem. The reality is that no one has gotten sick from listeria in fluid raw milk for at least eight years, in New York or anywhere else in the country. The real reason these dairies are being shut down is because NY follows the FDA’s zero tolerance requirement on listeria. Because listeria must be present in large amounts to cause illness (unlike E.coli O157:H7), Europe and Canada have adopted more flexible rules and allow its presence in small amounts. But the FDA and NY hold to the zero-tolerance rule. Why? Well, one reason is that the rule enables them to harass more raw dairies than they otherwise would be able to.
Wheat just like raw milk is manipulated to the nth degree in order to increase its shelf life.
The mechanical action of milling flour generates friction and exposes the grains internal components to heat and oxygen. Millers try to limit the exposure to heat as much as possible in order to maintain its baking performance and avoid damaging valuable nutrients such as gluten, enzymes, vitamins and many other healthful components.
The germ is removed in order to limit the flour from going rancid.
Now they want to heat the flour in order to kill off the bacteria?
Where is all this mechanical, heat and chemical manipulation of our food taking us? Is it going to result in better health?
Ken
Ken
With the continued adulteration of plain flour, it will be harder to find the good stuff. I don’t think I live in an area that is good for growing wheat.
It has been obvious to me for many years, that the current way of processing, to include growing and raising our foods, is the wrong way and a major contributor to the poor health of most people.
I don’t know why so many just seem to accept what is pushed on them? Why don’t they refuse to buy it? Why don’t they vocalize about it?
Apparently the facts and the issue have no bearing, just defending one of your own.
And then you trot out this red herring of a supposed NY producer to paint all those who arn’t part of RAWMI as backward folks making people sick.
As usual, self-aggrandizing mark has nothing substantive to bring to the conversation. Every conversation about anything must be turned toward RAWMI.
Having met the man a few of times, here in B.C. I have a better measure of him than do you. He’s very well aware of the larger frame of govt. corruption … his experience being a political science textbook example of it! Yet he’s broken-on through the crap.
The message was clear…raw milk is here to stay and RAWMI is seriously committed to expanding access to low risk raw milk by training producers in its safe production. Penn state shared data from its USDA raw milk research study of 38 Penn State raw milk permit holders milk sample tests. Edwin’s presentation brought tears to many including me. His deep concern and love of consumers,…Ethics, morals and care was evident in his RAMP plan and his on farm lab systems. Wow…what a presentation.
I will not respond to Pete and stand by my record. My response to Culcane stands as it is. Anyone that defends all raw milk and claims that raw milk is always safe and blames the government for outbreaks needs a serious reality check. I do not see the fringe blog RAWMI haters being constructive or adding anything positive to progress.
Thanks Gordon, I appreciate you taking measure of me instead of throwing tomatoes in the blogosphere and other cheap shots. Typing is so cheap….actions and progress in the long term raw milk educational challenge is rare and highly
As far as New York producers and listeria is concerned, I appreciate that NY may be beating up on raw milk for listeria.but…if they had no target, there would be nothing to beat up on. Listeria is one of those bugs RAWMI can work to reduce and control.
I left the day with a handful of additional producers that are very interested in RAWMI Listing. Some from Ohio and other states. What a great day on so many levels.
These people that act like they invented milk, and they are going to teach all the rest of us. Clueless about history and current events. Pretty scary. I do hope to return to “the dark ages” of raw milk, when people lived into their hundreds and still active.
The farmer mentioned in the article we are commenting on, that did the survey, I’ve bought food from them. Think I’m going to make a special effort to talk to them about the dangers of a small, germaphobic group trying to corner the market on raw milk and raw milk information.
Marks endeavor and desire to make raw milk available to the public are admirable. I dont think any of us here would disagree with that.
In his exuberance however to promote RAWMI, he does have a tendency to over exaggerate and at times has demonstrated a condescending critical attitude towards those who refuse to get on Board so to speak.
Indeed all of us here are passionate about what we believe and have done our share of criticizing etc. and, as you are well aware, we all have an ego and a opinion. So how do you propose we get beyond our differences and move ahead?
Ken
Back in 2004, the FDA argued to raise the temperature of pasteurization because they’d discovered that “many organisms had become heat resistant and now survive the pasteurization process. The Johnes, or paratuberculosis, bacterium, is a good example. Johnes disease is endemic in todays confinement dairies and has been linked to Crohns disease in humans. Many samples of pasteurized milk now test positive for Johnes bacteria. B. cereus and botulism spores also survive, as do those of protozoan parasites.” This reflects the health of the cow. (See article http://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/ultra-pasteurized-milk/). You are what you eat!
Then came Ultra Pasteurization heating confinement milk to at least 212o F for a length of time sufficient to render it commercially sterile. (I.e., ultra dead milk). FDA had effectively taken an inferior product and made it worse in order to keep it on store shelves in the name of safety. No one knows if they are planning to redefine ultra-pasteurization as pasteurization so that the words ultra-pasteurization or UHT might then not have to appear on the label.
Let’s stop kidding ourselves. Pasteurized milk is really “sick milk” full of hormones, antibiotics, dead microbes, MPC (milk protein concentrate) not regulated by FDA, and added sugar (for flavor because dead milk tastes like dead milk). It is one big reason people are having their colons removed at record numbers due to the effects of colitis from years of drinking sick milk.
It appears that raw milk legislation provides the perfect distraction FDA needs to keep an inferior product (pasteurized dead milk) on store shelves to be sold as food! It is the perfect distraction for the medical industry to continue it’s colon dissections instead of identifying the true cause. There is too much money to be made by keeping cows and people sick. Let’s put the spotlight where it really needs to be. The truth is that Dean Foods has seen it’s milk sales dwindle over the last few decades because people can no longer digest their product.
Ken, you are in Ontario, right? How about create your own “Raw Milk Institute of Ontario”? And do there what RAWMI is doing in the US, except better and without what you don’t like about RAWMI.
Food born illness is a complex issue that requires as Ive previously stated, a multifaceted and well-balanced approach that extends well beyond the current microbe-oriented food production and food processing protocols.
Most of us seem to be well aware that the availability of raw milk has little to do with food safety. Yet there are those who get caught up in this microbe orientated safe food rhetoric and attempt to serve two masters so to speak.
Ive sold my share of raw milk to people I can trust and have a similar philosophy to mine despite the official hostile climate in Ontario. I have no interest in selling raw milk to people who wish to consume raw milk yet continue to hold on to the disease paradigm and its methods, then when something goes wrong are more then willing to stab the individual farmer and his family in the back.
Michael Schmitt who lives three hours south of me has chosen to be a martyr in a province where the system and most of the populace seem more then willing to self righteously chew him up and spit him out despite his impeccable record. I truly admire his courage and resolve.
RAWMI or any facet of it wouldnt get past first base in Ontario unless the government, and the courts first recognize an individuals God given and constitutional free will to choose.
Ken
Given the courts’ record so far, that’s not going to happen in either of our lifetimes. They already carved the “Nay” in stone in Michael’s last go-round. I followed Michael’s case praying that he would win. But he didn’t. The constitutional argument went down in flames. You’d have to change Canada’s constitution for it to be otherwise. Courts have ruled that unless a freedom or right is specifically listed in the Charter, it isn’t protected. Read the transcript at http://canlii.ca/t/g6456 – especially part 40 – that’s where the judge ruled that we have no rights, no freedom to choose. And he ruled based on what was decided in past court cases, so it wasn’t even a new decision. So, what’s Plan B?
Er, how about some inspirational music? Ok I haven’t learned how to play this guitar yet, but that’s never stopped me from recording. Who says you can’t write a song with four notes? The lyrics are:
Big Brother’s comin for your milk
comin for your apple cider too
While the Pharmaceuticals bilk
a Nation through and through
46 deaths every day
from prescription pain pills
but they tell you’s whole foods
that are the source of our ills
So get yourself a tv dinner
factory farmed meat
hydrogenated oils and
all the gmos you can eat
Cuz Big Brother’s comin for your milk
comin for your apple cider too
while the Pharmaceuticals bilk
a Nation through and through
Get yourself some Captain Crunch
and some ultrapasteurized cream
and isn’t it time to give Junior
yet another vaccine
Now Junior’s got asthma
Uncle Joe’s got heart disease
Betty Lou weighs 400 pounds oh
what have they done to her body chemistry
But Big Brother’s comin for your milk
comin for your apple cider toooo
while the Pharmaceuticals bilk
a Nation through and through
Don’t forget your 2 oclock meds
Don’t forget to take your 2 oclock meds
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pcdbCAWPUo
comedy, music? you decide
We do not have to change Canada’s constitution, in order for raw milk for human consumption, to be available. What you must do, is : assert your individual right to use and enjoy your private property. You’ll notice that Michael Schmidt changed the nature of the structure of Glencoulton farm after he was charged. They haven’t bothered him since, and the REAL MILK is flowing in Ontario… PRAISE GOD!
last week, hours after I’d made the deadline for submitting my application in the latest Freedom of Information round, the provincial Ministry of Health coughed-up 253 pages of records which they’d withheld from me for over 3 + a half years. Material which would have made a difference in how I cross -examined their guy, in the contempt of Court hearing, in 2013. Thus, the govt. of BC WITTINGLY obstructed my right to make full answer in defence. . What we’re arguing about, from now on, is a batch are HUNDREDS of pages of legal advice given to the Cabinet of British Columbia, to do with the legality of distribution of raw milk for human consumption. Beyond doubt, lawyer Fiona Gow will have told them I have a good point re assertion of the right to private property, as set out in the Canadian Bill of Rights 1960.
MOST telling, is an internal memo proving what I’ve said for over 6 years = there never was a complaint about the quality of milk from the Home on the Range cowshare. The – supposed – “complaint” was generated from within the Ministry of Agriculture. meaning : some covetous little Dutch Reformed quotaholding-serf bitched to the Power-that-Be, that we were “making too much money”, getting $12 per gallon in town, while he was getting $1.80 per gallon at the farm gate. When I try to explain to those blockhead apologists locked-in the Stalin-ist dairy supply system, that the difference in price has something to do with the quality of the milk, and the fact that we were delivering it 60 miles, they start blathering-away about me being a “criminal”. Yeah, well, I now have in hand the hard evidence to prove who the real crooks are …
the success of the Campaign for REAL MILK comes from the efforts of independents, all over the continent, guided by their own consciences.
after a third of a century being a court-certified-religious-fanatic and ‘loose cannon” who was rejected by (ostensibly) his “own side’ in the Pro-Life thing, the best advice I have is : The Tyrant cannot cope with an ad hoc collection of individuals who think for themselves. so … support articulators and popularizers with whom you agree on the big issue ||||| don’t be too harsh on those who are mostly headed in the same direction. On this forum, I come across as breaking one of those tenets, because I want to get the beginners up to speed, sooner than later, past the stage of thinking a mass movement will solve their problems. Wilhelm Reich warned us against the Freedom Peddlers.
it doesn’t take a degree in high finance to grasp the article at this URL : confirming what I’ve been predicting on this forum
… http://en.yibada.com/news/chinese-u-s-farms-tie-up-to-establish-dairy-plant-in-kansas-7976
the Red Chinese just bought control of one third of the raw milk supply in Ham-merica. communism now has wrapped its tentacles around the very basis of our national food supply. Whilst white men and women are getting blown to bits half way ’round the planet, in no-win wars, the heartland has been lost to the anti-christs
anyone genuinely interested in the Geo-political Big Picture should read the Parable of the Prodigal Son … in which the Son, having squandered his inheritance, is reduced to jostling with the swine just for something to eat. Like it or not, the term there refers to a race of people, not literal hogs. Confer with Jesus referring to the Samaritans as “dogs”
What needs to be thoroughly understood by the consumer from the get go, is that they must be willing to take full responsibility for their decision to consume raw milk. The regulators rely heavily on dissension and will do everything in their power to encourage discord.
Ken
Why do we need such an organization at all? And what does any of your comment have anything to do with what I said?
It doesn’t.
Of course Mark won’t respond directly to me, neither does he have anything substantive to say.
In fact : the Progressive Economic Plan as proposed by the Fabian society, in England was identical with the National Recovery Act of the US of A … later ruled Un-constitutional by the Supreme Court of USA. Identical : as in = word for word. It went into detail about a national Milk Marketing Board. Point being ; the Fabians make no apology for working stealthily to impose a global government … this raw milk controversy being only a recent ‘hot’ battlefront on their generations-long work of Treason. “yes” or “no”, Mister Culhane : are you in favour of the New World Order, as called-for by the Fabians in that P. E. P. ?
there is a place in politics for critics … constructive critics. Denying that anyone ever has, in the past, and continue to get sick from drinking raw milk, is insane. What’s your explanation for the 38 people – mostly a high-school team – who got sick at the dinner in Illinois, last month? As justifiably-suspicious as I am of lame-stream media propaganda, I have no problem believing that the poison was in the raw milk FROM A CAFO DAIRY FARM.
In recent years the numbers were something like 40 illnesses blamed annually by the government on raw milk, for 9 or 10 million drinkers. I think David would agree. In other words it was basically zero, even believing government numbers. Now we have a new “outbreak story” every week. Why? Because obviously the covert people have stepped up their smear campaign. The Internet has been able to provide information on the health benefits of raw milk that was not as easily available previously (“Local newspapers” for example are today just part of corporate chains, and they are not going to tell their audience about the health benefits of real milk because they are controlled by the same crime network that wants sickness and all the mega cash that goes with it.) So there’s been a concerted effort by our friends in the secret government to shut things down. Stop reading the media cartel and just talk to real raw milk drinkers in the real world. We don’t need to reopen the investigation every week because of these stunts. And I have been talking about raw milk from real, small farms, not CAFOs or big corporate outfits.
I’m not in favor of big corporate farms like you are. I have worked to try to get people to return to their own communities where they produce their own food and know exactly what’s in it, but people aren’t ready for this, so the next best thing is homesteading or buying from small, local farmers that you can check out pretty easily. I’m not saying people should blindly trust in anyone, but singling out raw milk as dangerous relative to all the other foods is just not based on reality and is doing the government’s dirty work for them.
As far as your question about the “New World Order”, the protocols, etc., the situation is we live in a sophisticated global prison, but it’s much older and more devious than you realize. Obviously “communism’ in its modern form is part of this, but so are many other things (see the 14 part story I wrote in D Smith’s blog, “The Noah’s Ark/Arc Code”, for what I have uncovered on all this. It’s unlike any established version of history or organized religion. And ultimately it’s a good news story.)
I do not advocate for “big corporate farms” … rather, our cowshare in BC proved that a farmer can make a good living with 25 cows IF you can get Big City prices for the gourmet/ specialty item, which REAL MILK is. The hard numbers we obtained from 6 years’ experience – before Home on the Range then Our Cows, were put out of business – prove Sally Fallon’s vision of an artisanal dairy in every neighbourhood, can prosper. 40 cows in milk with two families on the farm sharing the work, is the optimum model / grossing $1 million per annum, all-in. Her vision fits perfectly with Tupper F Saussy’s book “Miracle on Mainstreet” and “Small is Beautiful” by (??? can’t recall) circa 1969.
The $$ is not in dairying per se. It’s in connecting with the customer. Marshal McLuhan explained that, in the information age, that’s done by ‘wrapping information around the product” … now, that means via an internet website. Then, delivering the good stuff in the package, conveniently, as modern coddled consumers demand. If someone is prepared to do all that, consistently, they can get to the top 5% of income, in 7 years. But if they don’t want to do what’s demanded to earn such reward, then they should quit unloading their covetousness disguised as cavils against character. Since you’ve read a few of my contributions, Tomm, you may recall my favourite : ” those who are kibitzing ought to get out the way of those who are doing the work” Old Chinese proverb
RAWMI offers people who want to take raw milk from the level of ‘pittance farming’, up to the level where it’s available to anyyone who wants it. Or, as the unionists like to say “what we have for ourselves, we want for everyone” Aajonus was doing that via a network of contractors in whom he had confidence. Played-out exhaustively on this forum was the uproar as he complained vehemently after catching a supplier was not only not meeting the standards he’d set, but committing fraud.
The way I understand it, RAWMI is a trade association. In British Columbia, after they got rid of the Grape Growers’ Marketing Boad with its Stalin-ist quota system, the label of the VQA = the Vintners’ Assurance of Quality = was the prime factor in BC’s wine industry making it into the top ranks of the world. membership in the VQA is voluntary. Same thing will happen when BC legitimizes REAL MILK … our products will be have a designation similar to products labelled AOG in Europe.
If you think I, or Mark McAffee, or others on this forum are ” … singling out raw milk as dangerous relative to all the other foods … your reading comprehension skills are poor. In practice, we are relentless in pointing out that REAL MILK from a conscientious dairy, is far and away one of the safest foods of all
But if you want to criticize RAWMI as an organization, all i’m suggesting is that you do something productive and please start something else that’s better. I encourage you in fact, because I don’t like to see any organization having a monopoly, and RAWMI is heading toward monopoly status. We need competition in the “market place” of organizations – competition forces us all to improve. And maybe some day – if a miracle happens – something will be created that I actually agree with enough to want to join.
As far as me “hiding out in denial”, well I certainly agree that with these forums, anyone can hit a few keystrokes and make comments, whether they have the right to sit at the circle or not. I don’t like computers but I’ve been pulled into commenting here, probably because I have info most need, namely info about how the secret government operates. I get not great joy out of constantly risking my life posting this stuff, btw., especially when it appears it’s usually ignored.
Ken brought up civil disobedience and other not pleasant ideas, to deal with this assault on our right to eat whole foods. On my own path I was led to activists in the environmental movement. They asked if I had a criminal record because they wanted people to break “the law” to peacefully call attention to the government launching radioactive plutonium into orbit from Florida. I told them I thought their strategy was crazy. … But the fact is, several years later I was led, following my own guidance, to get locked up three times in one year, and spent three months total locked up that year. I could have avoided it each time, but had this strong inner guidance that pushed me to endure this. It was not a fun year.
So I’m hesitant to give people advice now about what they should do. It’s a complex universe, Big Brother is nothing to play with, it’s as evil a thing as there is, but there can be times you actually are better off putting yourself in harm’s way, but that is an individual decision. I certainly don’t want to be a martyr and energizing good things can often be more powerful than confronting evil.
Right.
So what exactly would be the point of this organization you think I should create?