I think this item about Mark McAfee’s latest run-in with the federal government falls in the I-swear-I-didn’t-make-this-up department. Ironically, it comes just as the controversy about Organic Pastures’ latest tussle with California’s Department of Food and Agriculture (CDFA) had seemingly blown over.
Mark, owner of Organic Pastures, had completed his recall of raw cream the agency warned nearly two weeks ago was contaminated with listeria moncytogenes. CDFA followed up today by giving him the go-ahead to resume raw cream sales. Even on this blog, emotions had quieted down from last week’s red-hot debate.
Then, out of nowhere, the federal Food and Drug Administration (FDA) stuck its nose in and appears to have ignited an entirely new chapter in the affair, which started over a highly questionable finding by the CDFA of listeria monocytogenes in some Organic Pastures cream. The FDA yesterday informed Organic Pastures, the nation’s largest raw milk dairy, that it planned to issue a press release this week warning consumers nationwide not to consume the dairy’s raw cream or butter, since a miniscule amount was shipped outside of California.
Negotiations between Organic Pastures and the FDA over the text of the release were continuing as of this evening, but, as you might imagine, it hasn’t been a pretty process.
According to the email correspondence between Organic Pastures and the FDA, provided to me by Mark, the problems started when the FDA offered Organic Pastures a chance to put together an initial draft of a press release to be issued by the FDA alerting consumers that 21 pints of its raw cream shipped outside of California as “pet food” were part of the original recall ordered by CDFA. If I hadn’t seen the email correspondence myself, I would have said that the whole idea of the FDA asking Mark McAfee to write a press release was better suited to a Saturday Night Live skit than anything that might happen in real life.
Interestingly, Mark agreed to try his hand at writing a release, and even more interesting, the release Mark put together starts out pretty reasonably (from the FDA’s vantage point): “During routine OPDC product tests performed by the State of California at the CDFA lab in Los Angeles, Listeria Monocytogenes was found.” So far, so good.
He then warms up a bit when he states, “Listeria Monocytogenes generally does not cause illness in healthy people unless the consumer is very immune depressed. Common signs of illness include sepsis and meningitis. Listeria Monocytogenes is associated with miscarriage of early pregnancy. About 10% of the population carries this pathogen in their intestines and is immune to its effects.” Still passable if you’re an FDAer, I’d say.
But then he gets going: “People that drink raw milk or raw cream on a regular basis have a much stronger and different immune system. This is because of the constant exposure to a broad range of good bacteria not generally found in the standard diet of Americans today.” Pow!
Believe me, I want to still be alive the day the FDA allows those two sentences to be included in one of its press releases.
Needless to say, Mark’s career as an FDA press release writer was short-lived. In an email, Jolene Hedgecock of the FDA’s “Recall Team” in San Francisco, wrote: “FDA does not feel that your suggested draft of the press release is adequate. FDA plans on issuing its own press release (see attached) warning consumers about the raw cream and the raw butter, which was made from the raw cream. This is obviously a separate action from the decisions made by the State of California. FDA will post its press release on the FDA website and issue it to the Associated Press. Therefore, FDA feels there is no longer a need for you to issue a separate press release.”
The FDA version said the FDA “is warning consumers not to drink or consume foods made from raw cream labeled as ‘Organic Pastures Grade A Raw Cream’” and, “Consumers are also warned to not consume foods made from raw butter” from Organic Pastures. And it actually notes, "No illnesses have been reported to date."
But as you might expect, Mark cared as much for the FDA’s version as that agency cared for his, except Mark was more outspoken about his dissatisfaction. “The bacterial analysis of the raw butter showed no signs of listeria,” he wrote back to Jolene. “ All tests are negative. In fact, CDFA official test reports on the raw butter were negative ( 9-18-07 ). FDA is warning people not to consume raw butter that has been cleared for sale. Your proposed FDA press release is factually incorrect and highly misleading. Adding a warning about raw butter is slanderous and baseless.” It all “proves the FDA intent to slander and express its deep anti raw milk bias.”
The latest word from Jolene to Mark this afternoon was that she “related your concerns to my agency, and this matter is currently being evaluated. The FDA press release has not been issued. I will let you know when I hear back from my management.”
I suspect someone within FDA is asking this question: “Who in hell decided to ask Mark McAfee to draft that press release?”
David, I loved your article. I got a good laugh. Dont you find that whole situation so funny???
Who in hell decided to ask Mark McAfee to draft that press release?
I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW THIS!!
I would encourage Mark to pre-emptively put out his own version of the press release and get out in front of the story before the FDA does. Press releases for issues of national importance can by submitted to the AP for free by using their web site and can be faxed directly to his regional AP office. I’d be happy to offer any assistance that I can.
Melissa…I get the humor of it all!
If Everyone knows him so well or wants to know him so well, how come none of you have written a book on him?
You would think that some of the people on this thread should know the difference between libel and slander.
Seems to me like Mark McAfee is one really popular guy that a couple of women can’t stop talking about. Mark is loving the attention, I am sure.
Most people who follow her are just as charismatic.
Sally is an extremely intelligent woman, now you are going to start on her now???
There are a lot of people that seem to know EVERYTHING about nutrition. (and SLANDER) I know a few of those kind of people myself. It still doesnt change the fact that false statements about Lauren and Chris were made. Gee Mary, If I were you I wouldnt defend myself or my child for that matter. What kind of person makes a statement like that? I wonder???
Call me, Ill tell you exactly who 54321 is!! 🙂
Got to just sit back and laugh at that!!
Please get over it already its been way too long for you to be harboring all this hate. It cant be good for your ORGANIC lifestyle.
Firstly I do apologize for my harsh words because they were directed to one particular writer that has NOT even been involved in this blog, I know who it is and that person has their name disguised.
But besides that, Davids topics mention our stories from a year ago quite often. Mark McAfee is coming on to THIS blog and telling the story in a completely different way than it happened, and lastly, Im sorry that M&M cannot just brush off what happened to their children. IS THERE A TIME LIMIT TO discussing a pretty sugnificant event in our lives.??? Its just that when people dont agree, things heat up. Isnt that normal?
You know, another thing, Mary and I have been called a lot of things on this blog too but we keep reading, taking in what is said and stating our opinons. Sorry it offends you.
I would not compare disagreements and a little name calling to the Jerry Springer show..
My apologies too… I guess "a little name calling" serves a purpose on David’s blog, "The Complete Patient". Really? (yes, that’s my attempt at sarcasm). Why any name calling? What good does it do? I propose that his blog was started based on some interest in the health of a human being. What healthy interest is served by calling people names, dragging largely personal issues on forever that clearly won’t be resolved, and racing to start each thread with a negative tone? If I’m missing the larger health-related purpose of these actions, please, please, PLEASE – educate me.
You do not know me, so I really don’t know what you are talking about. I am defending my friends, who will always be my friends and they are Mark McAfee and Sally Fallon. I think you have me confused with someone else.
I am not harboring any hatred, I have no idea what you are talking about. It seems to me that the people that are harboring hatred are the one’s that continue to make comments about Mark McAfee. His comments to you have not been immature or on any level that you and Mary have stooped to.
No one knows EVERYTHING about ANYTHING, since change is the only constant and things change everyday. But apparently you "KNOW" you are "RIGHT" and you "KNOW" Mark is "WRONG". How much sense does that make?
Mr. Gumpert,
You have had to put up with M&M for a year now, don’t you think many of their comments are not intended to educate, but only libel Mark and anyone else who defends Organic Pastures Dairy and what it stands for? Many of Melissa’s comments are just plain ignorant with no factual basis. At least there are other people on this blog that research information and that have some sort of knoweldge about things outside of bashing Mark McAfee. Why doesn’t M&M think about using some of their good qualities (because I am sure they have to have some) on saying soemething nice about a person, rather than spreading more negativity in this world. I think they only see their side all the time and then they wonder why Mark has to defend himself, which for me, is nonsense to post something as foolish as that statement.
They are defending themselves and what they believe happened to their children and Mark has every right to do the same to anyone who attacks him or his company. Being a friend of the family, I choose to not state my name in this blog for personal reasons.
Mary has done months and months of research and has come up with pretty darn good reasons why we feel that OP Milk got our children sick.
I think any intelligent human being would see the very personal approach we have taken.
Again, no one is dragging anything. It took a long time for Mary to put together all of this information. You are also forgetting the healing time that our children and families went through long after the 2 month hospital stay. There should not be a time limit to, or what you call dragging on a subject, in doing whatever you have to to find out facts in your childs case. Im sorry that offends a lot of you. NO one else did anything to find out what may or may not have gotten them sick. Mark McAfee and Sally Fallon just want to use anything to get the focus away from the Raw Milk.
I guess in 54321s world, M & Ms experience with E-coli is not an education to anyone. It isnt if you turn your cheek to the facts in the story. Any level of intelligence knows that.
"DIVERSITY" lets all focus on that word.
There has been very valuable information disseminated on this blog about Listeria Monocytogenes, how normal levels of these bacteria are found in nature, and that basically you can test many foods, (raw milk being one of them) and find certain levels of Listeria Monocytogenes, but from my understanding, low levels are not enough to cause illness.
Mark McAfee is upset that the facts are being misrepresented. This misrepresentation distorts the facts and paints a picture that is not entirely true. This is what I find humorous and its like calling the kettle black.
Is it O.K. for Mark to misrepresent the facts (false or incomplete) about my child, which distorts the facts and paints a picture that is not entirely true?
Sally Fallon is very well respected, but she has false and incomplete information posted on the Real Milk website about the facts of my sons illness. She learned this information through hearsay (Mark McAfee) and put it in writing for people to read.
I have every right to be upset that stories about my child are being fabricated as Mark has the right to be upset that facts about his raw cream and products are distorted. Hes screaming slander which he meant libel. Does this mean the same argument could be made in my situation?
It appears that people are empathetic to the false facts represented in this case against Mark, but when Melissa and I state that Mark made false statements about facts in our childrens illnesses, we are painted as having a vendetta against him. We just want the true facts about our childrens case to be presented.
I would agree with you that the truth is necessary but quid est veritas? Truth is the way our mind interprets reality. So, truth to you may not be the way another perceives it. The word extends from good faith. I would imaging they are presenting the information in good faith about yours and Melissas case. On the other hand, the information coming from this raw cream incident does not seem to be out of good faith.
Rod
1) "If Everyone knows him so well or wants to know him so well, how come none of you have written a book on him?"
2) "Seems to me like Mark McAfee is one really popular guy that a couple of women can’t stop talking about. Mark is loving the attention, I am sure."
3) "If I were you, Mary, I would stay away from making comments about Sally Fallon. Not only is the woman very recognized as an expert in nutrition as well as the history behind the scenes of what and why we eat the way we do, but she is very charismatic about what she knows.
Most people who follow her are just as charismatic.
Sally is an extremely intelligent woman, now you are going to start on her now???"
4) "You have had to put up with M&M for a year now, don’t you think many of their comments are not intended to educate, but only libel Mark and anyone else who defends Organic Pastures Dairy and what it stands for?"
5) "Why doesn’t M&M think about using some of their good qualities (because I am sure they have to have some) on saying soemething nice about a person, rather than spreading more negativity in this world. I think they only see their side all the time and then they wonder why Mark has to defend himself, which for me, is nonsense to post something as foolish as that statement."
DIDNT THIS PERSON SAY THAT WE SHOULD NOT BE SPREADING NEGATIVITY AND HAD SOME NASTY COMMENT ABOUT IGNORANT STATEMENTS????
Again, 54321 is in a different world than everyone else. 54321 feels that two wrongs make a right.
On September 20th, 2007 at 1100 hours the CDFA recall was lifted and raw cream and raw butter is now allowed back to retail shelves. The CDFA release documents state that upon retesting that no listeria pathogens were detected in any OPDC environmental tests (tests of surfaces in the creamery including, sinks, drains, creamery equipment, tanks, pipes, hoses etc ) or any OPDC raw dairy products including cream or butter.
This event is really a nonevent and is Much Ado About Nothing.
No illnesses have been reported to the FDA, CDFA, County Health Departments or OPDC. If this cream would have caused illness it would have occurred weeks ago.
This cream had been bottled at ODPC but had been purchased from an outside trusted organic creamery. Because it takes 100 pounds of raw milk to create just 6 pints of cream, OPDC on occasion sources raw organic cream from another organic dairy. It was this cream that tested positive at the state lab for Listeria Monocytogenes. It took nine days for the lab tests to confirm Listeria Monocytogenes. The normal lab detection time is 48 hours at 86 degrees. Suffice it to say that the level of listeria was sub-clinical, extremely low and extremely hard to detect. Lab conditions use special broth to feed the bacteria under a very special set of conditions, conditions not found in the human body or in the store or your home.
The story even gets wilder. When the OPDC samples taken by the State Inspectors originally arrived at the state lab in Los Angeles, the lab rejected the samples because they were over the required temperature. The sample ice chest had gotten warm when the ice had melted. The state lab requested that new samples be submitted because the temperatures exceeded the legal standards required for testing. The state inspectors then notified OPDC to inform us that new samples would be needed. The state did not come back for more samples. The next time that the inspectors returned was nine days later to serve notice of quarantine and request that we recall the cream from the market because of a detected pathogen. I asked why they tested the temperature abused product and they said that they reserve the right to test for pathogens even in temperature abused products and even if the lab rejects the samples. We objected to this apparent disregard for the state’s own lab policies.
According to sources inside CDFA, the state performs no pathogen testing on any pasteurized dairy products in California. It is also known that many pathogens pass by and survive pasteurization at low levels (including Para TB and others ). Levels that nine days of special lab testing would detect. The old saying do not test for what you do not want to find applies quite well and appropriately here.
After 13 days our request for the code reference that permits hot samples to be tested is still not answered by CDFA. We must assume that this may be a violation of the standards of the state lab policies. If not a violation it appears highly irregular at the least.
None of the other OPDC products have been recalled and all other products remain in commerce. OPDC only uses OPDC raw milk for its fluid products. The only exception is organic raw cream to make raw butter and cream to make cream pints. This is something done on occasion and not routine. OPDC has changed its sourcing arrangements so that any organic raw cream purchased from outside comes directly from a single known organic source and does flow through another organic creamery. This cream will undergo intensive and expensive testing prior to its use in the future. If OPDC cannot source raw cream from outside.then raw cream and butter will be in extremely short supply and will rarely be available. When raw cream is made, 95% of the raw milk used to make the cream is thrown away. This is an extreme waste.
OPDC continues to grow and more and more people share their stories and testimonials of healing. Raw milk is natures most powerful whole food pro-biotic. Stanford researcher Dr. Christopher Gardner PhD will be leading a special raw milk asthma study with hundreds of patients in 2008. The excitement at Stanford is evident. This study will be the foundation by which an Asthma~Raw Milk medical claim can be made for raw milk. This will be a first ever. The PARSIFAL study already lends great scientific evidence to this argument.
There is a new brave new world of integrated and preventative medicine emerging. A world where pathogens are no longer powerful agents that cause illness because the immune system of the human is strong.
The life span of the standard American is about 77 years. The quality of life span is about 46 years. That means that Americans spend on average 31 years of life in misery and drug dependent suffering from disease and cancers.
This must change. This can change. This has changed with whole food nutrition and raw milk. This will change for all when whole food nutrition is embraced and exercise becomes a part of our culture.
This recall is not our last or the worst. There will be more to come. Recalls are the greatest fear based tool in the FDA fear tool box. People that live in illness and fear are easily manipulated and led around. Your access to whole complete and unprocessed foods is under fire and the best means of protecting your food is telling other people about how wonderful and healing raw dairy products are. We have a CDC document which lists all outbreaks of illness from dairy products including raw milk, pasteurized milk, cheese, and other milk sources. This CDC data spans the 32 year time period between 1973 and 2005. There is not one illness confirmed for Listeria from raw milk. Not one. This document is accompanied by a sworn affidavit of the CDC technicians that provided the data to Weston A Price Lawyers. The CDC data is available at http://www.organicpastures.com .
We must all take a moment and pause to remember the 270 people that died today ( CDC data ) and that will die tomorrow from antibiotic resistant infections in the USA. This is truly tragic, but is culturally accepted as the norm. This is not normal and is 100% preventable with strong immune systems!!
It is your raw milk that is on the line. Protect it from baseless fear based attacks. Raw Milk in North Carolina now has black food coloring added to it as of September 2007. So do not take this lightly.
We the people will change our future. The greed machine will keep drug companies and the current paradigm in power only if they are supported by you the people. When people change their spending, everything changes.
Tell your closest friends about raw milk and its wonderful healing effects. If all of the consumers of OPDC do this, the raw milk market will explode and grow. OPDC can then assert incredible power because of the power you will have created. Perhaps even other raw milk producers will get involved. We all need this.
A free DVD will be available at OPDC that includes short testimonials of our raw milk consumers. These Raw Milk Voices from the Fresno Farmers Market will speak to your heart and our friends that needlessly suffer from Ulcers, Osteoporosis, Arthritis, Lactose intolerance, IBS, Asthma, allergies, ADD, immune depression and many other immune related illnesses. It is our responsibility as raw milk drinkers to lead others that live in fear and illness to a whole food nutrition that will literally change their lives and their quality of life.
Do not ask what you can do.just do it. There is brilliance in action. Tell one person today and every day about your experience with raw milk. Use you power of word of mouth and word of mouse (email )click! click!! You are the organic grass roots. Call for the Raw Milk Voices DVD and we will send it free to you. This DVD will also be playing on You-Tube soon. Give this DVD to a friend in illness 1-877 RAW MILK.
This recall is but one small part of an ongoing struggle waged everyday by Americans for a better healthier America. Does anyone know how to get a hold of Oprah? If you do, call me.
All the best in health,
Mark McAfee
Founder OPDC
I wish that more dialogue could be initiated and sustained about the physiology and biology of whole unprocessed natural food and the resulting real whole health.
BLOGGERS here do not seem to understand or want to go there. Am I wrong? There seems to be much more interest in slamming Mark McAfee, and that is perfectly fine (drama can be fun and entertaining for some people ).but it serves very little purpose in furthering complete health for the complete patient.
For everyones information, OPDC did immediately release a press release within one hour of the recall 14 days ago. It was almost identical to the statement quoted by David and posted on this BLOG.
My attorney says:
let the FDA post something stupid, factually incorrect, in conflict with the official CDFA test data, libel and baseless. Every time the FDA does that, 5% of the population gets really upset and buy tons more raw milk.
The FDA in their blind bacteria phobic ignorance just fuel our fires.
In fact, I encourage the FDA to do just that. They have caught a terminal case of food in mouth disease along with their president.
To those that hate my guts.please read the Fresno Bee front page news for October 2006 ( attached ). The 2006 CDFA official investigation results and position are clear.
The state cleared a Fresno County dairy to resume shipping raw milk products Friday, finding no evidence they contributed to four cases of E. coli poisoning in Southern California.
Those are not my words, those are the words of the Fresno Bee and CDFA after three weeks of intensive testing and investigation in fall of 2006.
Good health to all,
This is where you can find the information posted on the real milk website. http://www.realmilk.com/update-ca.html
These are the only facts that matter in this case of E-coli 0157:H7 contamination:
1. To the best of my knowledge, these are the facts I know to be true: 4 children in 4 different counties (3 in Southern CA and 1 in Northern CA) all drank OP raw milk on the same weekend, became ill in the same timeframe and they were able to isolate a matching E-coli 0157:H7 blueprint in 3 or the 4 children. The only common food source they all consumed was OP raw milk.
2. The matching E-coli 0157:H7 blue print to the childrens was not found in OPDC raw milk, on the farm or in the cows.
3. This either means the children all consumed another contaminated common food source or they just never found the evidence to support the matching blueprint. Mark had many weeks to clean up his dairy before the inspectors came to his farm and they did not check all of his cows, only about 2/3 (around 225 out of about 300) of his herd.
QUOTE TAKEN FROM SALLY FALLONS REAL MILK WEBSITE
Oct 23 2006
Comprehensive testing pointed to other sources for the illnesses. From the CDFA and media reports it would appear that OPDC had critically injured four kids. This is not true at all. Only two children were hospitalized and they have fully recovered. These two childrens parents freely admit that other sources of food contamination were probably the source of illness including spinach and sushi. The truth was never told in the media or by CDFA. These government agencies have an agenda that goes far beyond food safety. They hate raw milk and want it gone from California.
Mark McAfee gave Sally Fallon information that was used to support the spin for pro raw milk safety and misrepresented the real situation about our children state of health. The above statement also implies, that as parents, we somehow knew what food caused our children to become ill.
Correct Facts:
1. On October 23, 2006, Chris was still in the hospital at Kaiser Fontana. He was being weaned off seizure medication, and still had a PIC (peripherally inserted central catheter) line in his left arm feeding him intravenously. Chris hadnt eaten since September 7th. At this time, his pancreas still wasnt working. We left the hospital on November 2, 2006.
2. At this time, Lauren was at home, but not fully recovered. Lauren has never fully recovered. Until a few months ago, she was still on blood pressure medication and is currently taking medications to help her kidneys function properly.
3. When Mark came to the hospital to visit during the 3rd week of September, I thought the spinach and raw milk were in the process of being tested, therefore assumed we would have the answer shortly as to what food was contaminated with e-coli 0157:H7. I never told Mark I thought the spinach was the source of the illness (how would I know if it was the spinach or the milk). I did tell him I hoped the spinach was contaminated and not the milk. Unfortunately, the food products were never tested because the e-coli bacteria were never isolated in Chris.
4. Chris did eat spinach in the same timeframe that he drank the recalled milk. However, Chris did not eat packaged Dole spinach that was implicated in the E-coli outbreak. He ate spinach from an open bin at our local health food store.
5. I have no idea if Lauren Herzog ate sushi, but regardless if she did or didnt, it has no bearing on this issue. Sushi is raw fish, not raw cow. Sushi can be contaminated with many pathogens, but E-coli 0157:H7 is not one of them.
The FDA created a Safe Food Chart for Meat, Poultry, and Seafood that lists human pathogen associations.
Campylobacter jejuni
(beef and poultry)
Clostridium botulinum
(seafood)
Clostridium perfringens
(meat)
Escherichia coli O157:H7
(ground beef and pork)
Listeria monocytogenes
(pork, poultry, and seafood)
Norwalk Virus
(seafood)
Salmonella
(beef, pork, poultry, and seafood)
Staphylococcus aureus
(beef, pork, and poultry)
Vibrio cholerae
(seafood)
Vibrio vulnificus and other vibrios
(seafood)
Yersinia enterocolitica
(meat and seafood)
Is it safe to eat sushi, the Japanese raw fish specialty?
People in the at-risk groups should not eat raw or undercooked fish or shellfish. People with liver disorders or weakened immune systems are especially at risk for getting sick. Foods made with raw fish are more likely to contain parasites or Vibrio species than foods made from cooked fish. Always cook finfish until its muscle is opaque and flaky.
Mark McAfee also stated false information about our children in four other venues. Three are written and one is from a radio show. The Kojo Nnamdi show aired on August 13th 2007. Sally Fallon was a guest on this show and Mark McAfee called in and made the following statements:
(Mark) There were not four children that were sickened, there were only 2 children that were sickened. Two of these children were never treated with any antibiotics, were never treated with any medications, recovered at home, without therapy, without being in the hospital and their parents denied that they were very ill or they were ill at all.the other two children were very, very sick.
The tragedy of it all is this when I asked the parents and asked the doctors and looked at the records at Loma Linda, they did not have pathogens in their stools that matched each other. In other words, it was a different bacteria that made the 2 children sick. One had e-coli 0157:H7 and the parent/caretaker of the child said it had nothing to do with raw milk. It was a spinach salad and they never assumed it was raw milk. And the other child, it was not e-coli 0157:H7, it was Shigella. So when I had this information and I told the state that I found this information and I told them I was going to go to the national press with it; that you did not have four children sickened with the same pathogen, they gave me back my permit within a couple of days.
Correct Facts:
1. HIPPA laws prevent confidential information to be shared. The doctors are only there in the morning when they do their rounds and all the medical records are computerized. The hospital did not allow Mark to look at the medial records.
2. Now the switch in information occurs about what Lauren Herzog ate. Now she ate a spinach salad instead of saying she ate sushi. Chris is the one who ate spinach.
3. The Shiga toxin was isolated in Chris stool samples. Not Shigella. Chris was the only child where e-coli 0157:H7 was never isolated. I clarified this information to Mark in April when I spoke to him on the phone and on a blog in June. Despite clarifying this information twice, he still chooses to make false statements.
I hope this information helps clarify the facts.
Mary
Nice to hear that you have all the facts and that the test results that are printed on paper from the state that was done on my milk last year, are bogus, right?
All throughout these blogs you keep stating that Lauren got sick at my house! Why do you keep saying this? Where is this proof on your fact list?
It takes, supposedly 2 to 8 days for a person to show symptoms of e-coli 0157:H7 and that was information given to me on the phone from the CDC after Melissa went and called everyone and their brother and stated that it was my milk that made Lauren sick!
I have the paperwork that Melissa filed with the CDC where she states that my milk made Lauren sick and that it was skim milk (the same milk you said that Chris drank) when I have my lab resluts in front of me from off of the container that they took from my hands, that states WHOLE milk. You and I discussed at length that the children consumed the milk at the same time, yes, but and this is a big but…they were not the same milk and Melissa’s information was straight wrong.
Melissa ASSUMED that Lauren and Chris drank the same milk…I have her statement to the CDC…even where I bought my milk from, she wrote…my city! Let’s get some more facts straight.
Everyone is different…bioindividuality is what it is called, correct? So, I might eat a hamburger and in 4 hours, I might get sick. My friend eats that same hamburger and guess what…8 hours later, he gets sick, to the point of dry heaving and then has to go to the hospital because he is dehydrated. I got sick for 4 hours and just threw-up and had the runs and in an hour it was gone. Now…the argument is made that my immune system is stronger and his is weaker, or that I am more sensitive to pathogens and my body reacts faster…whatever it is, both people got sick. THIS IS A TRUE AND FACTUAL STORY.
My ex-husband and I at the same hamburger from a deli and this is what trully happened.
So, Lauren started drinking the raw milk in June of 2006, so did her dad, brother and my whole family which consisted of a just turned 3 year old and a 5 year old. We, throughout the whole summer consumed the butter, whole milk (not skim) kefir, raw cream, colustrum…you name it, we all had it. Whether it was in a smoothie or in their popcorn and boy…Mark sure can make the best butter you have ever tasted in your life! Hands down!
Anyway, so none of us got stomach aches or any stool issues. Lauren was at my house late that afternoon and we went to Hibachi Steak House. I ATE SUSHI! She had a california roll…nothing was raw, except for the vegetables. She did have steak, she did have shrimp and she did have cooked mung beans and vegetables. My kids ate that food, I did not.
The next day we went to a place called Boomers, it is a miniature golf place, with go-karts and video games. It is funny that someone brought up the water issue, that is part of the reason why I am replying to this thread. My children and Lauren as well as myself went out on those spinning boats and although the water was refreshing since it was hot as hell that day, it was dirty water and she got soaking wet. She was so drenched that we had to wait a while before we could go back in my car.
Now, that next morning, before I made her a smoothie, I believe I told you Mary, that she was in my sons bathroom for a while. When she left the bathroom and I went in, the bathroom stunk up to high heaven and I am serious. It was enought for me to have asked her if she had the runs, she said she was ok, but it was not a normal smell.
On an aside-I talked with a nurse for one of the newspapers when Lauren was in the hospital and one of the first signs of infection can be a fowl odorous smelly stool or loose stool or the runs. She said to me that it sounded like Lauren was already sick with e-coli 0157:H7 before she was at my house.
That next morning I made a smoothie that was a definite probiotic booster. I put strawberries…which are on the e-coli list as well, 1/2 cup of raw whole milk, flaxseed oil, coconut milk and honey…there might have been more, but I am sure Melissa still has the list of food that I typed out for her while Lauren was in the hospital, since I was being accused of making Lauren sick. Remember Mary, I gave Melissa the information she asked for and I wrote other info, but then I decided to rip that other info off of the paper, you could still make out that I put down that I shop at Clark’s Nutrition in Rancho Mirage.
Well, all Melissa needed was to see raw milk on the list, Clark’s, Rancho Mirage and then she called everyone and their mother and told them that the milk was contaminated and that I had purposely given the milk to Lauren to kill her…I had a 11 year old friend of Lauren’s tell an adult neighbor of her dad that- those words came out of her mother’s mouth after speaking to Melissa on the phone.
I have been appologized to by the girls parents who repeated the nonsense, but I have yet to be apologized to by the person (Melissa) who slandered and libeled me and still continues to do so today.
Not only did Melissa tell friends and family, but she went out into the community where I conduct business on a regular basis and spread these malicious lies. This is the same person that can never come up with anything on her own and always has to back you and how you have done your research Mary, yet she states that no one else did their research…that is a lie.
I called OPD. I called the grocery store that Melissa bought hamburger meat at as well around the same time Lauren got sick. I talked with every person who wanted to talk to me and I handed over my contaminated bottle to the state for testing right in front of Loma Linda Hospital right before I went to go see Lauren. She had already been there for a few days and I told you my milk was dated the same time as yours…except mine was whole and yours was skim.
My milk sat outside in a garbage bin for days in the hot sun, then it was on my laundry counter for another day or two before I had to deliver it to the lab tech. You stated you kept your milk in the fridge…why didn’t you get an independent lab to test your milk??? I forgot the reason you told me. I was told I had to hand over the milk and I could have lied and said I did not have it, but I did not and you know damn well why!
1/2 cup of milk split between a 3,4,10 and myself was so miniscule it was rediculous, but at the same time, I know in my heart of hearts, my son, with the less matured and probably weaker immune system would also have gotten sick. If we all drank the milk and it had e-coli 0157:H7, I believe in my heart of hearts, that at least my kids or myself would have had a stomach ache or the runs. Now, what is even funnier is the next day, Brandon, Lauren’s brother, who does not eat well, had a tall glass of the same milk. He had more milk then all of us combined and he never had a sign of anything…nothing!
Tell me how that makes any sense at all! My son was 3 years old and you know his immune system is not as strong as an 11 year old. My other son, who was 5, his immune system might be a little stronger, but still, not as strong as an 11 year olds…Am I to believe that my children have cast iron stomachs and so does her brother who had a full glass of E-coli 0157:H7 too!
Amazing if that were the truth. But, you do the math.
Again, you have no idea what Melissa put Lauren through in the hospital and what she put myself and Pete through.
As soon as she thought it was the milk, she told her daughter everyday in the hospital, that I almost killed her. I went to the hospital almost everyday until she told security that she was scared for her life because I gave her a note. Little old 5’3" me who might be 108 pds…she plays the victim a little too well!
On top of her not letting Lauren heal, she caused Lauren to cry, put her through mental and emotional trauma everytime she talked about me. Melissa would tell Lauren how angry she was with her that she still wanted me in her life. Melissa told Lauren that she was upset that Lauren liked a gift I gave her and was playing with it more than any of the gifts that Melissa had bought her.
Not only did she try and manipulate everyone into thinking I poisoned Lauren, but she scared both her kids into ever drinking or eating at my house…can you believe that??? Her son will hardly touch any of the food that I cook and so she has forged another fork in my efforts to have a relationship with her ex-husband.
How can we ever be a family if their mother fills their heads with nonsense!
She states in a lot of her threads that people who eat organics are freaks. Doesn’t that include you and your family, Mary? From what you told me, you stated that was the only thing your family was eating and that you were giving Chris the raw milk because of what you had researched about ADHD and the effects that raw milk have on the body…it calms and smoothes, relaxes and also has beneficial fats for the brain, which many ADHD children lack.
No matter what, Mary, my test results that I freely faxed you when you asked me to, were and still are negative. If this was the milk that made Lauren sick, then why were my tests negative?
They had my milk for over a week and ran numerous tests and they were so reluctant to give me the results that I had to sick my attorney on them and threaten a law suit…that is how they work, right???Now you wonder what Mark had and still has to go through in regards to them. They feel they are above the law because they are the law? The law is also their to protect people as well and that is what attorneys are for.
If you feel like Mark and his company are to blame, I am confused as to why you did not file suit against him last year? Mark did do his research about the other chidren and so did I.
Those other children were not sick like Lauren or Chris and if you know so much about them, how come you didn’t even know that the child had eaten spinach? You have the timeline down pat, why don’t you know every little thing they ate as well? Melissa got the list from me. If there are no secrets and no guilt or shame, then people hand over information 123…just like I did to you and to Melissa and it still is not enough for the both of you.
I am sorry that your husband blamed you for the milk, but don’t tell me your husband never bought milk for Chris, because that would be a lie as well.
Both you and your husband read the warning label, that Melissa so quickly states that you should do before you eat anything, including the warning my attorney wrote her last year, but we won’t go there! So you and your husband made an educated and deliberate decision to buy Chris that milk! You also made a decision to buy spinach as well. Are you a horrible person for wanting to help your child with his ADHD/ADD? Are you a horrible person because you want your son to be healthy. NO, of course not.
One of the reasons we started drinking the milk was also because Brandon, Lauren’s brother, has ADHD, and we were tring to help him control his disorder with whole foods…Melissa was fully aware of this and knew that Pete and myself had been working with a naturpathic doctor and Pete still has the e-mail stating that she would rather try and help him that way, then put him on medication.
Melissa was also willing to take him to a chinese herbalist at the time, but now after all this has happened, that would be for the freaks to do…just like she called me…a freak, a fanatic and extremist and whatever else she stated whether it was printed or verbal.
Mary, maybe you should be aware that Melissa is a person who changes her stance like she changes her underwear…which I hope that would be a daily occurance. She sways with whatever is popular or the cool or in thing or whatever her friends find inmportant. There is no depth to Melissa and there never will be. You have chosen a very fake person to confide in. You seem to be intelligent, you don’t see through all this that she is riding on your band wagon praising you for your research and all her comments are one liners that are not even spelled correctly?
I think you are smarter than that and I respect what you say, yet at the same time, you need to stop with the heresay and listening to Melissa tell tales.
Lauren got sick 2/3 days after being at my house. Still, she was at her dad’s house before my house and she was also at her mom’s house before and after as well. She got sick at her mom’s house in the middle of the night and had to wait almost an hour for her mother to un-lock her bedroom door, while she was having horrible stomach pain and the runs. Her mother never took her to the doctor on time, never followed through and as I told you, made her wear a maxipad with her rectal bleeding instead of taking her to urgent care…she had company coming over!
While Lauren should have been taken to a doctor or urgent care, she was being ignored, while her mother had her new boyfriend and his 3 children oven, who were not letting Lauren rest when she was ill.
Pete was at my house when he got the call that Melissa took Lauren into urgent care and she wanted Pete to come…why is that? She did not want to deal with Lauren being sick, it interfered with her busy social schedule. Melissa then left with antibiotics…which as you know, only made matters worse the next day, she was admitted to the hospital and then on and on…
I saw you or your husband often at the hospital. Melissa makes it seem as if she was by Lauren’s side every second of the day. Instead, she was late coming to see her, talking on the phone or text messaging or just plain didn’t come at all and sent her mother or another family member. She would lie to her daughte and tell her she was coming and then would not show up on time and again, she would send someone else and that upset Lauren. Pet and Melissa had split time share of Lauren in the hospital…want to know why? Because Melissa can’t stand me and hung-up on me when I called Lauren’s room. I don’t know why she did that, but she would not let Lauren speak to me. She said, she had nothing to say to me and then hung up. After that, she accused me of poisoning her daughter to Pete and then stated that we made her think it waas the hambuger she ate…No, Lauren’s pediatrician stated to us that it was probably the hamburger. No one went around the hospital initially stating that Melissa had purposely given her child hamburger meat with e-coli 0157:H7.
Not only did she make a scene twice in the hospital in front of Lauren, but she insinuated in front of her daughter, that Pete had laid a hand on her and hurt her while they were talking outside of her room in the hospital hall way. Melissa told Pete, in front of everyone- that she was going to have him arrested!
Guess who was crying with disbelief while she was trying to heal her sick body…why did her mother say that and did her dad really lay a hand on her mother???
Those were the two questions Lauren asked her grandmother through tears.
Trust me, Melissa’s antics did not stop there and she still continues today.
I have been with Pete for 2 1/2 years. We once were going to get married and have a family, but she sure did put a stop to that before Lauren got sick, during the time she got sick and after.
Melissa tells you that Lauren is on blood pressure medication. Did she tell you how she neglected to check it every day-2 times a day? Lauren has to take a pill every day and half the time, Melissa does not remind her or she feels it is up to an 11 year old to remember to take her pill!
She leaves her 11 year old home alone with 4 other children under the age of 14 as well…the youngest step-child is only 9…sounds like neglect to me, yet she cries to everyone to feel sorry for her, but yet she is not even home to make sure her daughter is alive!
Lauren passed out the other day in school. She is dizzy sometimes as well…guess why? No one is checking on her at her mother’s house and no one feeds the girl and makes sure she is ok!
Lauren has a condition and her mother should be ashamed to be writing on this blog that she went through sooo much, when today, she leaves her child unattended for hours on end, to the extent that her father waited till 8:00 pm for her to come home one night, and when Melissa didn’t come back to her house, Lauren did not want to stay home alone with her 14 year old brother, so Pete took Lauren home to his house.
Think Melissa was happy that Lauren was safe and content at her father’s house? NO! She was mad. "What is the big deal, she told her son- she couldn’t stay home with you?" Hello!!!
Mary, would you leave 5 children unattended and one of them is 9, which is just crazy and the other one has a condition? Ms Cuan or MC, which she likes to call her self, has little compassion from me. I have compassion for people who are honest and genuine and she is neither.
I am sure airing out her dirty laundry is going to make her angry, but she did worse- a whole lot worse to me.
It is coming up on one year that my attorney sent Mrs. Cuan a letter asking her to apologize for what she said about me- not only in writing, but through letters written to all the people she went around telling- all the business establishments and so forth, schools…you name it, neighbors of Pete’s that I had and have to see on a regular basis, and she still has not followed through!
Does anyone know that you have a year to file a law suit for slander/libel once your attorney has written a formal letter requesting for your name to be cleared of those slanderous and libel comments that affect your character, reputation and your business?
It is not a year yet and Melissa could still save face, couldn’t she!
So Mary, do you think your friend has it in her to apologize to me for spreading malicious statements such as, "Chelsea poisoned Lauren on purpose to kill her!" This is the person you talk to on a regular basis…you best buddy and pal through the thick and thin of the e-coli drama.
I think you are better than that, even if you were just using me to get my test results initially since you know I was not going to give them to Melissa.
If this is the way you both operate, then better to have the rest of the people on this blog know what you both really stand for, so they don’t have to waste their time asking you both to forgive and forget.
I was healing and trying to forgive and forget till I found out all these lies are still being written about me and what really happened.
I did 10 months of school and that was my therapy, to learn more about whole foods…to be told by an uneducated woman, that I live in a fantasy land!
Melissa, you are the only person living in fantasy land! I forgot who came up with the M&M show… but that was comic relief.
One more thing. Can you believe that a person told Lauren one day, when she had to use the bathroom, that he was not going to take her to the bathroom because he was too busy watching a baseball game?! A grown man told an 11 year old child with healing kidneys to either hold it or go pee in a bush! This is a clear representation of negligence and it is unfortunate that Lauren is surrounded by a person who cares more about baseball, then about a normal bodily funtion that if not released, can cause serious bladder and urinary tract disorders compunded on the fact that her kidneys are scarred!
On an aside. Lauren is supposed to drink at least 64 oz. of liquid a day per her doctors orders. You know what is acceptable for her to drink and what is pushed on her to drink instead of water..which is what the majority of your body is made up of…milk! Lauren drinks tons of milk instead of water. But it is pasteurized, so she should not worry, right? She has a 5% chance of ever getting e-coli ever again- her mother makes sure she eats those yummy hamburgers from fast food restaurants and that dead milk with plenty of dead bacteria (possibly) that is radiated and contains hormones, antibiotics and who knows what else.
I live the freak organic life for a reason.
If anyone wants to know about a great school where you can learn all about what is being discussed here and more, you should check out Institute for Integrative Nutrition. Dr. Mercola, David Wolfe, Dr. Hyman, Dr. Weil, Dr. Chopra, Dr. Willet, Dr. Nestle, Dr. Sears and many others come to the school and speak about hot topics such as these.
We had motivational speakers, dentists, naturpathic doctors and even Sally Fallon used to speak a couple years back. I am well read on a lot of various topics and Dr. Mercola seems to be the most outspoken in regards to raw milk and raw eggs next to Aajonous Vanderplanitz. I have read up on him and WOW, he is pretty wild. I have met people who only eat raw…raw meat, chicken and so forth and they are very helthy. So, again, bioindividuality is key to what works for each and every person in this world. I have never been a big dairy drinker and I don’t drink milk anymore. I do eat that yummy butter and every once in a while, the raw cream. The butter has so much to offer the human body and is so good for you. Why would you eat dead butter? Mark’s best product along side of the cheese as well, is the Kefir. How much more probiotic can you get? I do drink a Kombucha daily, but if you don’t like the fermented drinks, then a smoothie with the Kefir is wonderful. All of Mark’s products are pretty tasty and I think I have turned many people on to his products that not once got sick…I have a friend who drinks a couple gallons a week and he is alive and kicking like the other thousands, so are my kids for a matter of fact!
Mary, I am glad that Chris is alive and I hope he keeps on building his immune system after all the drugs and antibitotics and the shigella.
As for Lauren, she knows I love her and I would never do anything to hurt her and she KNOWS that, no matter what her mother tries to convince her otherwise.
It is a sad day when a mother of two is questioned about what she feeds her children, when my children did not and have never gotten sick from eating organic or raw foods!
It is also a sad day when a mother blames someone wrongfully for their daughters illness without the facts or any evidence whatsoever.
That separates your character, Mary, from your friend, Melissa. You knew better and she jumped the gun because she wanted me nailed to a cross and crucified. She did not succeed and only made herself look pitiful for spreading such hurtful statements.
Accusing a person of murder…especially when that someone was almost their step-mother, makes it almost unbearble to even mention again.
One year ago that you both had all this happen to you and one year ago I was accused of murder and so was Mark…it is a damn shame!
In efforts to clear my good name and character, I write this thread.
Mark as well as hundreds of other people would vouch that I would never ever do anything to hurt a child ever!
All I do is try and help children become healthier and happier and I take the time and effort to do so from the bottom of my open heart.
In Health,
Chelsea Higholt, HHC, AADP, CYI, CFO,Director and Partner of S.A.F.E. Catering, LLC
ALL ORGANIC…All NATURAL…ALL FOR A BETTER WORLD
Sustainable Agriculture Food Ecology
Healthy Alternatives to Classic Worlk Cuisines
Our Mission:
The purpose of our company is to provide education and training, promote health and awareness, teach the skills needed for the preparation and growth of organic food and to model the principles and practices necessary to achieve sustainable living.
If you would like more information about my company, feel free to e-mail me.
Having a child whose life is threatened does not go away in a year’s time. It stays with a person forever. Sometimes it becomes a lifelong mission to make sure such situations don’t recur. Melissa and Mary are right to continue in this discussion. Mark is right to continue also. While it becomes emotional at times, the facts need to be worked out. Everyone is a little right and a little wrong. The whole truth is the sum of many parts sometimes. Maybe it would be best if parties would set aside loyalties enough to be willing to affirm the truth, including the parts they didn’t come up with. Chelsae, do not consider a mother’s apathy and fears to be indication that she isn’t affected or doesn’t care. That is just wrong. It was hurtful to say you tried to poison her child, yes, but posting what you have, here, is no better. I’m sure you care about Lauren too. But this isn’t about your dispute. It also isn’t about Mark’s and raw milk’s infallibility.
It is good to know the facts that are not correct on the real milk website, though I’m sure their intentions are good. It is good to know that there are those promoting raw milk sales. Even though I have consumed raw milk most of my life and have never gotten sick, this ongoing discussion caused me to make the choice to gently pasteurize my own goat milk for consumption this past summer. But I stongly feel that this should be a choice; and that buying raw milk should be a legal choice.
The public, and the authorities won’t be won by glossing over the facts, or the possibilities. They will be won by sound arguments. Isn’t that the goal here – to find common ground with each other? What do we all agree on? That needs to be the focus, please.
Also, with all due respect, please refer to the ongoing discussion not as M&M, but rather as M&M&M. Thank you.
Gwen Giffen
http://www.wisetraditionsmichigan.org/
(the conference includes other great speakers and topics)
Thanks for your comments.!!!
This blog is very educating in either direction you choose to view the discussion about Raw Milk.