A little over a year ago, I described Edwin Shank’s conversion of The Family Cow from feedlot to the East’s largest raw dairy. It took more than three years, and required extraordinary commitment to producing high-quality nutrient-dense food.
I’ve communicated with Shank on and off since then, seeing him most recently last November, when he was a sponsor at the Weston A. Price Foundation’s annual conference near Philadelphia. By then, an expanding part of his quality commitment had come to include safety, extending beyond what is required by the Pennsylvania Department of Agriculture in its regulation of raw milk.
The Family Cow brochure states: “”Our family is dedicated to producing the highest quality most healthful milk for your family. We are fully tested, inspected and licensed by the Pennsylvania Department of Ag. Even beyond that, we are committed to voluntarily run pathogen tests many times more often than required by PA law.”
Today, Shank took an unexpected opportunity to make good on its stated dedication: he suspended all raw milk sales after one of the dairy’s 
voluntary private tests came back showing a positive reading for campylobacter. Shank explained what happened in a special edition of his farm’s newsletter, issued this evening:
“Just a few hrs ago, QC Laboratories, the laboratory we use for our voluntary, beyond-the-state-requirement pathogen testing, has reported the presence of Campylobacter in a sample of milk we sent them almost three weeks ago. I’ve spoken with state officials and they report there are no illnesses, but we still want you to know what we found. The milk in which the campylobacter was found was bottled on 1/10/11 and carries a ‘Best by’ date of 1/25. If you still have milk with this ‘Best by’ date, please discard it. Although, with milk that old, it’s probably long gone.
“There is no reason to believe that more than this date code of milk was effected, yet out of abundance of caution we are, as of today, voluntarily halting sales of raw milk from The Family Cow until we get a clear test. We are running two tests now on milk that was bottled since the positive sample. We will be in communication when we are ready to resume sales. We expect to have the test results back early next week. Sorry for the inconvenience, but we feel it would be remiss and irresponsible to continue to sell even though there have been no illnesses.”
To those customers who might be scared, he explained further:
“Please understand that we found this precisely because we go over and beyond the state requirement for pathogen testing of raw milk. (actually 12 x more frequent than the requirement) The only way we know anything about it at all is because of our voluntarily testing protocol. So give us that credit! We do this extra testing for your peace of mind, the safety of your families and out of abundance of caution. It would be easier, cheaper and less stressful to simply not know! If we would only be testing at the state required minimum, we would have never found this problem and you and we would be none the wiser.
“Also, as far as I know, we are the only PA dairy, raw or pasteurized, which tests for pathogens in the final retail-ready container at this frequency. (Pasteurized milk is actually never required to be tested for pathogens.) Some experts in the microbiology world have cautioned us that testing with this level of intensity is not a wise business move because, in their words, ‘If you look that hard and test that frequently, you will be sure to have a positive test sometime. Then your farm and food will have bad press while your competition, which tests infrequently or never, will look good!’
“Well, of course we recognize and understand the logic and truth of that statement, but there is an ethical side to the equation which always grounds us and brings us back to our true north. And that is this: When it comes to your family’s safety, it’s not the government’s standards that we are trying to live up to… it’s yours. We have faith that you will appreciate our caution, honesty, transparency and forthrightness. Maybe it’s not best for business but if it’s best for you… it’s good enough for us.
“We’ll keep you posted. Please pray for us.”
All I can say to those in the public health and regulatory communities who snidely argue that producers of raw dairy are in denial about safety, The times, they are a ‘changin, and farmers like Pennsylvania dairyman Edwin Shank are leading the way. ?
I spent about an hour today on the phone with one of your frequent commentators (I am sure he would prefer not to mention his name) and I learned a lot about raw milk safety from someone who clearly understands it. I wish him the best and offered to connect him with someone who might be of help in developing a raw milk HACCP.
I am hopeful that Mr. Shank (and the phone caller) represents a movement away from denial and the victim mentality that has been a frequent visitor on this site. FDA and Pubic Health Officials are not tools of big business. They care about public health and have over a half a century of feeling that raw milk is not a safe product. Yelling and threatening them will not change their minds. Mr. Shank (and the phone caller) might.
Congratulations on the success of your voluntary food safety protocol. I am so proud of you and your ethics. This is the proud new future of integrity of farmers that care. Your brand and your consumers will thrive!!!!
Bill, thank you for acknowledging the voluntary efforts of ethical and very hardworking and deeply dedicated raw milk farmers as we set a pioneering course forward with out the assistance of the FDA. Now….wouldn't it be great if the FDA would dedicate itself and resources to research to find rapid tests for things like pathogens.
Ed great job!!! No one is sick and I would bet that most all consumers that drink raw milk long term in America have positive Titers for campylobacter any way.
You make me proud!!! The same thing could happen to any one us. You are an example to all!!!
Your brother. Mark
Mark
Great day!!!
Mark
When those posters on this blog spout that the raw dairy farmers don't care, I envision the feed lot dairies/meat producers and wonder where is the caring for healthy animals and products from them. What is the difference to them? Why doesn't the govt go after them to clean up? By allowing the contaminated feed lot facilities, the govt has lost credibility. These facilities are on such a grand scale yet allowed to continue. It make no sense, other than being in someone's bed.
As I said long ago, everyone should know basic standards. Those who go above and beyond will get more business. Educating is the key for all.
You make an important point. Those of us who regularly deal with raw dairy producers know the vast majority care deeply about safety. What Ed Shank has done is communicate that caring via the establishment of his own safeguards, and decisive action. He turned what could have been a negative situation (potential illnesses, confrontation with authorities) into a positive situation (impressed customers and startled regulators). This is as much about public image as it is about safety and regulation.
David
You are fooling yourself if you really believe that!
The FDA CANNOT be trusted! They are "government" and bought by big business….BIG PHARMA being one and BIG AG and BIG BUSINESS being others! Jonathon Emord tells all.
I loved what GOATMAID said in the prior blog post here to BILL MARLER …HYPOCRISY!
"Tell the 1300 sickened in 2006 in CA from pasteurized milk and tell that to the relatives of three dead Americans in 2007 at Whittier Farms in MA."
I wonder why Bill never defends those many CAFO-sickened people against pasteurized milk with the same outrage that he does for the same few who were supposedly sicked by raw milk. Seems to me he should be even more outraged since three DIED from pasteurized milk. Why doesn't he just argue against the consumption of ALL milk?
Is it because he never made any money off the many sickened and three KILLED by pasteurized milk? Or because his handlers won't let him?
What hypocrisy. <<<<<<<<<<=============== right on Goat Maid!
nancy j
Mark
Here is the lawsuit and facts:
http://www.marlerblog.com/legal-cases/listeria-lawsuit-filed-in-milk-post-pasteurization-contamination/
Here is the settlement:
http://www.marlerblog.com/legal-cases/settlement-reached-in-listeria-death/
Here was a small tribute:
http://www.marlerblog.com/legal-cases/marler-clark-donates-5000-to-medway-high-school-on-behalf-of-listeria-victim/
As for the 1,200 or so sickened in California, was that the prisoners outbreak? No one made that one phone call.
They are doing just what they do in healthy soil.They are attracted to accumulations of garbage in the same way that flies are attracted to a garbage pile, and they break that garbage down into substances that can be recycled and used within the system or excreted.
Vigilance in preventing exposure to these "pathogens" eventually leads to a situation where the amount of garbage accumulated cannot be broken down and excreted without considerable pain and misery.Most people now carry around in their bodies a considerable "total body burden" of toxic chemicals.
http://www.jbiomedsci.com/content/17/1/21
"
Journal of Biomedical Science
Volume 17
Background
The role of bacteria as anticancer agent was recognized almost hundred years back. The German physicians W. Busch and F. Fehleisen separately observed that certain types of cancers regressed following accidental erysipelas (Streptococcus pyogenes) infections that occurred whilst patients were hospitalized [4]. Independently, the American physician William Coley noticed that one of his patients suffering from neck cancer began to recover following an infection with erysipelas."
If we accept that what we call "bacterial or viral infections" are really "cleansing crisis" in which we are eliminating accumulations of contaminants in our bodies,then how should we deal with these "pathogens"? Should we avoid them whenever possible or should we greet each round of cleansing by supporting the "pathogens" in their role by helping in ways that make the excretion of those toxins easier to tolerate.Rather than avoiding "pathogens" shouldn't we be working to eliminate those accumulations of garbage from our bodies and diets?
When we do detect pathogens in our milk,let us take a close look at the chemicals we are using in the system along with a thorough inspection of each nook and cranny in the system that could possibly allow the buildup of a biofilm that can be a garbage pile that attracts and breeds these pathogens.What we need to avoid in our milking systems and in our bodies is any accumulation of garbage that leads to a proliferation of these bacteria.What we do want is a continual exposure to these bacteria in small numbers so that small garbage piles are cleaned up before they result in huge cleansing crisis that can become life threatening.When testing for these pathogens ,it is therefore important to distinguish between a very miniscule amount of cells/milliliter and an infectious dose of cells.
I agree with those experts in microbiology who suggest that, If you look that hard and test that frequently, you will be sure to have a positive test sometime.
In other words there is no preventing it from getting into the milk. Not only that, most of your customers will have consumed the product long before your testing protocol indicates a problem since as Mr. Shank states, Although, with milk that old, it's probably long gone. He must have had, as I know many farmers would have had a good chuckle with that thought.
In the end all of this added testing, does little but nurture a false sense of security in the eyes of those who fear the organism.
Ken Conrad
I'm one of those people who enjoys the "goat-y" taste in goats milk brought about by the action of lipases on the relatively small fat globules in goat's milk. Although I do refrigerate my milk promptly, it is not chilled in the conventional dairy-speak sense of the word. The milk produced here has generally gone into coffee or a cheese press within three days.
I wonder about what other raw milk producers say about the shelf-life of their product. Is two weeks the norm? After all, other "raw" products such as seafood are considered to be safe for three days or less before they are used.
Yes, the outbreak was from a CDFA inspected creamery at a CA prison. The pasteurized milk contained campylobacter and sickened about 1300 people…
Prisoners….have a hard time calling from solitary confinement…they do not have a dime….and they probably enjoyed the time in the medical dispensary anyway. CDFA and the prison system are also somewhat immune from deep pocket prosecution. No easy money from an insurance company.
Not the garden you eat from…..
Mark
Yes Ed is to be commended for stopping sales…and to let his customer know about the results….and to make sure he doesn't have a consistent 'problem'… but anyone with half a brain, that is drinking his milk, must realize that all this extra 'pathogen testing' that's "many times more than required by law' really doesn't give them any 'extra' protection if the milk is drank before the results come back.
I also find it a bit comical, that a large commercial dairy would be named "Family Cow'…kind of an oxymoron if you ask me. Not as bad as the pretty farm scenes on the labels of confinement dairy schwag…but it's still disingenuous marketing.
http://www.marlerclark.com/case_news/view/washington-state-penitentiary-campylobacter-litigation-washington
Or, just like when I represented those two kids against OP.
Mark, why don't you step up and match my contribution to STOP and CFI?
http://www.marlerblog.com/lawyer-oped/food-poisoning-victims-honored-donations-needed—ill-match-5000-each-to-stop-and-cfi/
The best technology we have is surveilance monitoring of pathogens to assure that conditions are not supporting pathogens. That is what Ed is doing….
We must all remenber that a positive pathogen test does not eqate to an illness…this is false conclusion. In fact very very rarely do pathogens actually cause illness. Three things must align to get sick.
1. The pathogen must be virilent
2. The load of pathogens must be high enough to trigger illness. ( Dr. Basslers MIT Quorum Sensing theory is applied here. Bacteria communicate and work together. If there are too few no action. Each pathogen has their own virility trigger load level ).
3. The host immune system must be susceptible to the pathogen.
If these three stars do not align…no illness.
Ed has gone far beyond requirements and that requires taking the risk of intelligence. He has a serious search going on for the needle in the haystack and sometime you find one. Nature is biodiverse. The same thing could very well happen at OPDC. We search and search to verify that our systems are working. There is no effort to check prior to shipping. Our testing is a verification that conditions are as we expect and want. What Ed is doing right now is verifying his conditions and also taking two days to intensively retest and versify everything. This is our best technology. When the FDA gets its head out of its CAFO PMO ass and help us….then we will have better quick tests that can perhaps allow pre- delivery testing of raw milk…until them, we do the very best we can do.
Bill,
I was involved from 1997-1999. I was connected to Lauri Gurand. She was on their board and had a child that was made ill by Odwalla Apple Juice. She and I worked on field sanitation issues with fruit production. The problem with STOP is that they are crazy stupid with bacterio phobia. One coliform any where near food….freaks out STOP. When I spoke last year to the Master degreed biology and educator about the benefits of raw milk for rebuilding immunity of kids and how strong immune systems was missing in the goals of STOP. She yelled at me…..and basically said that coliforms were pathogens. He level of ignorance in biology was incredible. STOP is a collection of really pissed off emotionally damged moms…who can blame them. But they are irrational in the policy positions. Their policies and agendas are pushing American childs off the immune system cliff.
Please listen to MIT Bonnie Bassler one more time….We are Bacteriosapiens. Killing bacteria is suicidal!!!! In America, we are missing our good benefical sources of biodoversity for our suffering immune system bacteria. STOP hates all bacteria!!
I will donate my money to Weston A Price and consumer education about beneficial bacteria and strong immune systems.
http://www.thinkatheist.com/group/tedfans/forum/topics/scientific-ted-talks
Please also see the press conference in Minnesota and listen to Suzy and her daughter Gabby as the senators announce a Bill to allow farmers to bring raw milk to town. Current raw milk laws allow raw milk sales on the farm but hundreds of moms each week must drive for hours in snow and icy roads to get their raw milk. This is dangerous. The Bill will reduce the odds of tragic car accidents and lower fuel consumption, both are serious costs risks.
Listen to Susy and her testimony with her baby ( Gabby ) in her arms. This is the voice of consumers and strong immunity.
Bill, You should donate our cause…you will sleep better at night.
Mark
Milk Farmer,
The best technology we have is surveilance monitoring of pathogens to assure that conditions are not supporting pathogens. That is what Ed is doing….
We must all remenber that a positive pathogen test does not eqate to an illness…this is false conclusion. In fact very very rarely do pathogens actually cause illness. Three things must align to get sick.
1. The pathogen must be virilent
2. The load of pathogens must be high enough to trigger illness. ( Dr. Basslers MIT Quorum Sensing theory is applied here. Bacteria communicate and work together. If there are too few no action. Each pathogen has their own virility trigger load level ).
3. The host immune system must be susceptible to the pathogen.
If these three stars do not align…no illness.
Ed has gone far beyond requirements and that requires taking the risk of intelligence. He has a serious search going on for the needle in the haystack and sometime you find one. Nature is biodiverse. The same thing could very well happen at OPDC. We search and search to verify that our systems are working. There is no effort to check prior to shipping. Our testing is a verification that conditions are as we expect and want. What Ed is doing right now is verifying his conditions and also taking two days to intensively retest and versify everything. This is our best technology. When the FDA gets its head out of its CAFO PMO ass and help us….then we will have better quick tests that can perhaps allow pre- delivery testing of raw milk…until them, we do the very best we can do.
Bill,
I was involved from 1997-1999. I was connected to Lauri Gurand. She was on their board and had a child that was made ill by Odwalla Apple Juice. She and I worked on field sanitation issues with fruit production. The problem with STOP is that they are crazy stupid with bacterio phobia. One coliform any where near food….freaks out STOP. When I spoke last year to the Master degreed biology and educator about the benefits of raw milk for rebuilding immunity of kids and how strong immune systems was missing in the goals of STOP. She yelled at me…..and basically said that coliforms were pathogens. He level of ignorance in biology was incredible. STOP is a collection of really pissed off emotionally damged moms…who can blame them. But they are irrational in the policy positions. Their policies and agendas are pushing American childs off the immune system cliff.
Please listen to MIT Bonnie Bassler one more time….We are Bacteriosapiens. Killing bacteria is suicidal!!!! In America, we are missing our good benefical sources of biodoversity for our suffering immune system bacteria. STOP hates all bacteria!!
I will donate my money to Weston A Price and consumer education about beneficial bacteria and strong immune systems.
http://www.thinkatheist.com/group/tedfans/forum/topics/scientific-ted-talks
Please also see the press conference in Minnesota and listen to Suzy and her daughter Gabby as the senators announce a Bill to allow farmers to bring raw milk to town. Current raw milk laws allow raw milk sales on the farm but hundreds of moms each week must drive for hours in snow and icy roads to get their raw milk. This is dangerous. The Bill will reduce the odds of tragic car accidents and lower fuel consumption, both are serious costs risks.
Listen to Susy and her testimony with her baby ( Gabby ) in her arms. This is the voice of consumers and strong immunity.
Bill, You should donate our cause…you will sleep better at night.
Mark
It was interesting to read this recent article about Pseudamonas and campylobacter. It has to do with chicken, but is relevant to raw milk —
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/10/101007093617.htm
The article that was associated in Bills previous post reference speaks also of Campy being able to quickly build biofilms to protect its self from oxygen rich invironments and thus survive when they would otherwise die.
Bill….thank you for your great posts….this is the kind of thing that will help Ed and I and everyone that is working hard to understand the chemistry and biology of pathogens and change the terraine to drain the allegators from the raw milk swamp. My RAMP program addresses this already…but this new data will create some additional notes and thoughts in our RAMP program and risk assessment.
No bioflims and no psuedamonas…no campy. We all know how to get rid of biofilms!
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/03/100324184602.htm
Mark
OK, some of your posts were a surprise. Maybe the force is in you after all.
C'mon, join the rebellion –
We're more fun than those staunchy doom-saying, rule loving losers.
Eating pasteurized cheese and wine is like having sex in body condom. Those bubble boy folks smell like latex and rubbing alcohol. Break out and breathe the real air.
I also find it a bit comical, that a large commercial dairy would be named "Family Cow'…kind of an oxymoron if you ask me. Not as bad as the pretty farm scenes on the labels of confinement dairy schwag…but it's still disingenuous marketing.
I must disagree with your characterization of the Family Cow. I am one on the many New Jersey fans of the Family Cow. Although Ed Shank serves hundreds of familys, I have noticed that he gets to know almost of his customers by name. I had a very favorable impression of Family Cow dairy during a farm tour last summer. See my blog and photos.
Raw Milk Road Trip
http://hartkeisonline.com/2010/08/18/for-family-fun-tour-a-raw-dairy-farm/
Edwin,
Thank you for producing delicious milk for us folks in New Jersey since we cannot legally purchase it locally.
We certainly appreciate your farm.
Hopefully what your dairy produces in Pennsylvania, will soon become legal in the Garden State: http://www.gardenstaterawmilk.org/index.asp
What Ed is doing is great…but there is nothing singular about it.
There is a place for commercial dairies…just as there is a place for the REAL family cow, in the raw milk movement. Seems to me like there is an effort to obfuscate the delineation of the two. Quaint.
I wouldn't be too dismissive of bio-films. They can serve a protective role, if they are made of the right organisms. Even in milk pipelines…
I hear what you are saying. I have read the book The Family Cow and know the concept.
I once heard Ed Shank say Every family needs a farmer. In that sense, his farm is appropriately named.
The Family Cow not only provides good care for his many cows, he cares for his customers like family. That is why he has so many happy family customers.
I am from Jersey, dont mess with my farmer.
Dr. Joe love yours also. And I add. Do not mess with my brother. He is one of the best things to happen to raw milk in the eastern US in the last 100 years. Ed ignor the nay Sayers. They are background noise and mean nothing.
Ed. You watch …. Your sales are about to sky rocket.
Mark
Mark
Land of lakes. What a great friend of moms
Mark
It seems Statistical Process Control (SPC) plays a role in food production. As I understand SPC, it is this:
Assume a stable system (pasture and a cow).
Assume a measurable target, some aspect of the product (milk in a city domicile).
Batch by batch three things occur: we hit the target, and we miss the target high, and we miss the target low.
The values are all over the place but we want the values (as we work to improve the system) to converge to the target.
If the values are all over the place, widely, there is lots of room for improvement.
If the values are all over the place, narrowly, we want to maintain that success, and then improve.
Part of the demonstrated science of SPC is to define, then to improve the stable system. In addition to the target line, we calculate an upper line and a lower line (the target line is between these upper and lower lines).
The vital knowledge is this: there is no special cause for any value that falls between the upper and lower lines. All such values are system-generated. The key to this vital knowledge is the understanding that a measurement that is very near either the upper or lower lines but still between them has no special cause (nothing to adjudicate) and that if you act otherwise (i.e. go hunting for a non-existent special cause) and then modify the system based on this fantasy special-cause, your modification will cause the system to diverge (those upper and lower lines will move further and further apart, actually the system will blow apart); you will lose the system and have a confusing mess on your hands if you persist in taking real-world action based on fantasies.
If a value is above the upper line or below the lower line, there is a specific cause for that value and if you discover the cause and apply a remedy to the system, you will improve the system and the upper and lower lines will shift towards each other.
Part of the science of SPC is to calculate the location of the upper and lower lines.
SPC certainly works. If you have ever noticed a high-quality Honda or Toyota automobile around, you are looking at the end product of organizations that embraced the science of SPC decades ago and never looked back.
We cannot fail to see to it that the law takes this into account otherwise the law in its ignorance will foster the loss of vital societal systems and give us in return confusing, failing messes.
SPC is in fact advanced common sense.
Mr. J. Ingvar Odegaard
There is a nice discussion occurring here. Some great comments have been made. http://www.marlerblog.com/case-news/minnesota-considers-expanding-raw-milk-sales/#comments
cp
Some really good political advice for our raw milk friends in Minnesota. Make your raw milk impossible to vote against. Your bill asks for very little you are asking for a farmer to having driving privileges thats all. This is going to be converted into an expanded threat of raw milk illness when it has zero to do with raw milk.
To fix this raw milk target problem I would suggest immediately amending the bill language to include requirements for a "CA like" raw milk warning label on all raw milk in Minnesota. This makes your bill hard to fight against and the real consumers could careless
Just a thought from a guy who has been to the hearings and heard the FDA and big ag when they brutally attack raw milk and the moms that need it it is brutal. I do not know how they could attack a bill that warns consumers. But you choose the language first. Use CA language it is fair.
Mark
Sales numbers are an indication of consumer dollar voting and scares the Jesus out people like Land-o-lakes.
There are other measures as well like the hugs Ed will get from his customers next week when he is cleared to fill the gaping whole in the supply of raw milk in his market. I can guarantee that he is also getting calls right now from his customers begging for his raw milk
CP if you do not like money there is something wrong with you. Money creates jobs and feeds families and cows. Raw milk farmers are truly wealthy in the bigger sense of the word wealth which includes health and life of purpose filled with love and relevance.
Mark
Now, you have my interest.
Mark
Mike Schmidt is not the Poster Boy of raw milk.
Mike Schmidt is the Martin Luther King of Raw milk. I have never known a soul with more calm and thoughtful grace underfire
Mark
Anyone know how many 'family cows' Ed is milking?
Mark, I am curious as to why pathogen testing does take so long….and what could be done to speed up the process… so that testing can actually help consumers directly, rather than having the benefit once removed…and just helping the producer monitor their production. What is your turn around time for sample testing, and why does it take so long? What could the FDA or CDC do to decrease the lag time? It seems to me that if there are quicker tests available they should be used…so I guess there aren't any. Are we looking for and increase in testing technology…or more of a commitment from the tester to get the info back quicker?
I wonder also what could be done to be clear about the term 'tested'. Seems to me that only the most educated consumer would know that 'tested' doesn't mean a guaranteed pathogen free product…only that the 'tested' means that pathogens are being monitored after the fact. Seems to me that the current state of testing could be 'abused' by the unscrupulous to mislead those customers who don't make a real effort to learn about their milk production (I am not insinuating that this is being done currently….but tested…for the average person….usually means tested before consumption).
Thanks so much for that information! It should prove useful.
Tested prior to delivery is really not feasable because it takes between 2 and five days to get pathogen tests back. Depending on which one. Each is different. Pathogens really do not want to grow. They first must be fed specialized broth or growth medium to get the pathogen populations to grow because they can not be detected at the extremely low levels that they present. Few labs do campylobacter. The rapid pathogen test situation in the USA is not optimal. The NIH and FDA need to get their collective acts together. The rapid test we do at OPDC takes 8 hours for Ecoli 0157h7. We do this two times per week.
The program we use is called surveillance testing. It is not intended to be a pre delivery test program it is a test program that shows whether the systems that we have in place are working. It is a test of RAMP not the product.
Someday hopefully we will have very rapid and accurate pathogen tests. We can fly drones over other countries and drop bomb on an outhouse. But we can not deal with bad bugs with anything other than 110 year old technology imported from France.
Americans. Smart and yet so intellectually challenged when money and science get near each other
Mark
cp
cp
You addressed your question to Mark, but I'll take a brief stab at it. First, regulatory tests for FDA-regulated foods are defined by the BAM protocols:
http://www.fda.gov/Food/ScienceResearch/LaboratoryMethods/BacteriologicalAnalyticalManualBAM/default.htm
These tests are not designed for a "test and hold" program. They detect adulterants in foods. Most of the assays are culture-based, which is the gold standard for identification of a pathogen in a food product.
I don't know what method Ed Shank's lab used for his surveillance purposes, but given the lag time it may have been a culture-based test. The advantage of culture is that this it definitively finds a live pathogen in the food.
But, these culture tests are not very practical for "test and hold" on short shelf-life ready-to-eat products like raw milk, raw spinach, raw sprouts, etc. The tests can take >7 days to confirm.
The Holy Grail would be to have a rapid test like a dip stick for the product before shipped, or some kind of sensor (functioning like a pregnancy test: yes/no – you are pregnant – or have a pathogen). Unfortunately, despite the who knows how many millions of dollars Homeland Security has put into finding such tests (let alone the private labs hoping to find such a test for foodborne pathogens), they all have failed to perform reliably. The quick tests usually depend on PCR or serology-based approaches. The problem is that they produce frequent "false negative" or "false positive" results." The former puts your consumers at risk, the latter give a producer a huge liability if the tests comes back PCR or serology positive (when it was really negative).
My understanding with large companies that use private labs for pathogen screening of beef, deli meats, produce, etc. is that they use these "rapid" tests to monitor the process. This approach probably has many merits since the tests helps validate processes. The purpose is not to provide the consumer any guarantee about an individual lot of product.
What Ed Shank did makes total sense given the limits of the technology he has available. Kudos – he could be the start of a change in the regulatory approach.
MW
"I spent about an hour today on the phone with one of your frequent commentators (I am sure he would prefer not to mention his name) and I learned a lot about raw milk safety from someone who clearly understands it. I wish him the best and offered to connect him with someone who might be of help in developing a raw milk HACCP."
Mark McAfee wrote:
"Ed. I think I saw an offer from Bill Marler as part of the first on this string to connect you to an expert in HACCP."
Mark, I think you missed the boat on identifying Ed as the person that Bill was making the offer to. First of all, unless he has been posting incognito, Ed doesn't comment frequently here, perhaps never. The first name that came to my mind was Scott Trautman because the timing was coincidental with his pow-wow. When I read the Marler blog that CP linked to, on which you yourself have commented, and read Marler's comment about having had a discussion with Scott Trautman, I saw that as confirmation that Scott was the man in question.
I say more credit to Scott. Better to address the legal liabilities premptively.
Bill Anderson, I believe you gave a lot of food for thought in your comments there. Some folks can only see the bogeyman.
http://www.marlerblog.com/legal-cases/248-arrested-in-china-for-food-safety-violations-in-2010—in-the-us—zero/#comments
I am posting this comment on his blog. We shall see if he allows it to be read by the public there:
"You can't say that I my comments are not helpful. David Gumpert and the folks in the raw milk movement find my insights about dairy microbiology and fermentation to be very helpful. We are in the process of creating workable raw milk safety standards, despite being criminalized and prosecuted as a collective punishment tactic by the state.
I look forward to talking to you tomorrow Bill. Hopefully something constructive can come of it."
What do you expect when you go on someone's blog and call them a fascist and other names? The meaningful comments I've seen you make on the Marler Blog are lost in your vicious, immature attacks against the owner of the blog. The same goes with some here like Goatmaid, Nourish Yourself, Truly Concerned – sometimes I wonder if those women are nasty, mean-spirited humans in real life, or if that's just their blog persona.
Bill Marler, you write the words of an imperial guard but the way you say them reveal the Jedi rebel is in you. Listen to the force, Bill. LOL.
While it is a mistake to believe that people can be lumped together and labeled, there are trends in personalities. I believe I see a common underlying trait that cause a person to lean toward or away from living foods.
A nice colloquial expression of this is captured in
the cliche "some live to eat and some eat to live."
I believe this trait spills into all the parts of how we experience our lives- from relationships to sexuality to the things and people you choose to surround yourself with.
How do you see yourself when you are old? Will you have the tan, leathery well-weathered skin of a person who has lived life to its fullest?
Or will you be among the pale and frail, with the pinched and sour face that comes from excessive worry, stress, and avoidance?
You know the answer, Bill Marler. Do you really want your legacy to continue on the path it's on?
Do you want the history books to record your name on the same page with the likes of prohibitionists and the masturbation-makes-you-blind finger waggers?
OK – so how about a soundtrack to go along with this little speech? Here's your song for today, Bill:
Wizard of Oz – Optimistic Voices
"You're out of the woods
You're out of the dark
You're out of the night
Step into the sun
Step into the light…" 🙂
C'mon Bill! Lose those stuffed shirts! You don't belong over there.
I don't believe it was your promotion of food safety that got Bill Marler's ire. In fact he made some favorable comments about you after a couple of your comments that addressed the science. What got his ire was your continual digging that he was just in it for the money and your implication that all of his actions were driven by greed. It is his website and he doesn't have to put up with slanderous insinuations. I think you have to separate out the corporate protectionism that drives food safety laws and regulations from what Bill Marler is doing personally.
I think Bill Marler is earnestly interested in food safety and while I disagree with many of his proposals regarding raw milk, because they are one-sized fits all, I think he is open to reasoning. As an attorney representing people harmed by food, he is intimately familiar with the horrors that result. I'm sure he thinks he is the good guy, and his clients undoubtedly agree.
All the good that results from drinking raw milk isn't as dramatic and compelling as the horror stories, so those personal stories of redemption through drinking raw milk are comparatively stifled. After all, they're just anecdotes.
We need people like you to calmly present the counterthinking to the "all bacteria is bad" message that overwhelms the media, to educate us about microbiology and fermentation. I hope you can restrain yourself to stick to the science and avoid slander.
You have called people names like "Jerk" etc. Why is it ok for you to do it?
I still think you want others to kiss your ass because you have some superiority complex.
That is true. It was a knee-jerk response not directed at a specific person, but a mob here that attacked with name-calling and insults after I made the mistake of sharing a personal story.
You didn't answer my question. Why is it ok for you to call people names (you've insulted others a number of times). Yet you do it. You give an excuse as a knee-jerk response. Are all your posts knee-jerk responses?
http://www.responsebio.com/products_biodefense_ramp_biodetection_system_overview.asp?menu=3&submenu=1
I tried to buy one, but they only sell to people who are first cleared by the US Dept of Defence
What a great name!!!
Bill Marler, do you have any connections with a high enough security clearance to be able to buy one of these RAMP systems? I would like to add it to my RAMP Food Safety system.
I would argue that RAMP is a matter of national immune system security.
Mark
The RAMP that Gordon linked to can currently detect anthrax, ricin, bot tox and pox. Do these have anything to do with raw milk?
Your sentence "I would argue that RAMP is a matter of national immune system security" is cute. Maybe in time it will have relevance to raw milk.
I miss your point…scientists are pretty much in consensus that the effectiveness of the human immune system is made up at least 80% of the GUT bacteria colonies that inhabit your GI tract. Every thing we do in America attacks this internal rain forrest…everything. Antibiotics, preservatives, sugars, sterilzed foods, bad fats….etc.
Raw milk or even better, fermented raw milk is perhaps one of the most effective ways to rebuild these crucial colonies of beneficial bacteria. The natural biodiversity found in these foods are unmatched for their immune enhancing ability.
In the American culture and diet, there are very few sources for these essential bacteria. Fermented raw fish and other rotten meats are no longer socially acceptable. That leaves raw milk and fermented raw milk as the most available source. Pasteurized anything is a waste of your time in any attempt to rebuild your immune system. Remember what Dr. Bruce German discovered at UC Davis in CA, it is the oligosacarride sugars ( in raw breast and cows milk ) that feed the bacteria that protect, feed and form the biodiversity of the gut flora.
Not sure you are up to speed on the newest scientific confirmation that nature was right all along. Industrial dirived Monocultures added into pasteurized dead milk that has been highly processed does not do the job….instead pasteurized UHT dead milk just triggers histamine reactions from all the dead pieces of bacteria…hence all the mucus production with dead milk.
If you think that immune status is something funny and cute….sorry you feel that way. 5000 kids die of Asthma every year in the USA. Asthma is one of the most easily recognized outward signs of immune injury….The EU PARSIFAL study says it all.
Nothing funny about dead kids.
Mark
You are right….the listed toxins are not raw milk related. But the protein identification systems used in the RAMP system can be modified to look for other things. It is just desire and money. Nothing like trillion dollar defense contracts to get an inventor licking his inspirational chops to make something happen.
Perhaps RAMP processes that have been developed to sniff up Ben Laden and his bioterrorist cronies….can be applied to more relevant and humanity improving tasks like instant pathogen detection.
Mark
I don't know what I said that triggered your longer post to me above. You're preaching to the choir. I've drunk raw milk kefir for a decade and made and eaten my raw butter, ice cream, kimchi and sauerkraut for several years. If you're reacting to my comment to Bill Anderson, I was trying to make the point that I'd rather see Bill A. make his case with science than by insulting Bill Marler.
If you're reacting to my comment about RAMP, I wasn't referring to your RAMP Food Safety system, I was referring to the RAMP biodetection system that Gordon linked to. Perhaps in time the biodetection system can detect pathogens that are relevant to illnesses caused by bacteria in raw milk, although the comments by Interested make me wonder if that is possible.
But until then, what value would it add to your RAMP Food Safety system? Why would you or Gordon want one right now? Are you worried about anthrax, ricin, bot tox or pox? In time, hopefully something like the RAMP biodetection system could be perfected to detect E. Coli O157H7, campy, salmonelle, listeria, or whatever is problematic for raw milk consumers. Will you be the person that can help make that happen – do you have hopes of reverse engineering the RAMP biodetection system for instant pathogen detection?
As for "national immune system security", I laughed when I read that, as I perceived the phrase to be a take off on the term national defense system security. I think it's a great phrase – I'd like to see it used more. But please, my perceived cuteness of that phrase has nothing to do with the seriousness with which I view the importance of a healthy immune system.
Perhaps I was too obtruse or curt in my short post. But Mark, I think you need to lighten up, because I think you overreacted.
Lynn
Sorry about that I kind of went off.
Did you know the Jaime Oliver drinks OPDC raw milk in LA? He gets it at the Hollywood Farmers Market on Sundays.
Mark
Pasteurization, standardization, homogenization, supplementation…. Dead milk is one of the most highly processed foods in America
Mark
I appreciate your enthusiasm for the benefits of raw milk. I was fortunate enough about six years ago in Denver to hear you speak plus the Masai student working with you at the time who testified about the healing he received from your raw milk. I just picture you in your crusader mode when you get going.
I'm glad Jaime Oliver isn't afraid to get out with the common people when he patronizes the OPDC Hollywood stand on Sundays. Confirms that he does know the value of real food. I suspect you may have a lot more celebrity customers although maybe they aren't the ones out picking up their milk. Maybe you unknowingly sell to a lot of staff of celebrities.
This movement includes organics but goes beyond organics becuase so many organics are processed to death.
This movement is really alligned with the USDA initiative …. "Get to Know Your Farmer, Get to Know Your Food…every family needs a farmer". It is brilliant but very disruptive.
I do not think that the average American farmer gets it yet. How can they? They do not know any consumers and think of consumers as the problem ie… PETA and STOP.
I think of consumers as the holy grail. When the farmer listens to his consumer ( carefully )he will hear everything he needs to know to be successful and serve people.
Lots of work ahead.
Mark