You knew Mark McAfee was probably not going to score a lot of points when silence greeted his opening line to a group of dairy regulators and industry bigwigs, that his appearance was “like someone coming to a gathering of priests and saying, “There is no God.”
Maybe the reason there wasn’t any reaction was because his crack was more accurate than he could have realized. He was speaking before a committee of the National Conference on Interstate Milk Shipments, an obscure organization of regulators and big business representatives that meets every two years to consider adjustments to the nation’s dairy regulations (for example, increasing the bacteria count allowable in goat’s milk or allowing introduction of carbon dioxide into milk shipped to Hawaii, to lengthen its shelf life). It is ostensibly an independent nonprofit, but all its proposed changes must be approved by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration.
McAfee had petitioned the NCIMS in connection with a citizen’s petition he has filed with the FDA seeking a lifting of the ban on interstate shipments of raw milk. You got some sense of his status at the conference when he was assigned to the 8 a.m. Sunday morning committee.
But interestingly, there were about 60 regulators and industry reps in attendance, in addition to the dozen or so committee members (which included more state regulators and an FDA official, Cindy Leonard, pictured above, who spent much of the presentation shaking her head in disapproval) who sat around a long table to listen to proposals. There were regulators there from Wisconsin, Michigan, Ohio, and Washington, among others. They were clearly interested, or concerned, about the growth in popularity of raw milk in their states. One from Wisconsin told me raw milk herdshares continue to spring up, but her bosses haven’t shown “the political will” to go after them in a big way.
This conference is like something from a past age in other ways as well. There was no Internet signup for the conference, no meals served at the conference (even though it goes for six days and there’s a $400 charge), and little in the way of technology options for presenters who might want to use PowerPoint.
So McAfee made his presentation standing at the head of the long committee table, and he did an impressive job. He emphasized three main points:
- The economic attractions of raw milk could lift dairy farmers. “I get $150 a hundredweight (the common measurement of milk, about 11.6 gallons), while conventional dairies get $11 a hundredweight. We cannot keep the milk on the shelf. We are running out in some stores three days before our next delivery.”
- There’s a huge black market developing in raw milk. “I don’t want a black market,” he said. “I want standards and regulations. I want the FDA to come in and inspect my milk.”
- Raw milk helps its consumers build their immune systems. “If you take a drink of raw milk every day, your immune system will get stronger and stronger,” he said. “Sterile foods do not make your immune system strong.”
But the fix was in, as it were. After McAfee had completed his 15-minute presentation, two industry representatives stood up with what seemed to be prepared statements opposing him—they clearly hadn’t been impressed by the economic advantages to farmers. Robert Byrne of the National Milk Producers Association, said “the federal ban (on raw milk shipments) should be extended to include an intrastate ban.” In other words, a national ban on raw milk. Yes, I’d say he wasn’t impressed.
Jim Howie of something called the Southern Marketing Agency, a consortium of Southeastern milk processors, scoffed at McAfee’s claims about the economic advantages of raw milk. “This should not be a marketing issue…I market organic milk. Organic milk isnot raw, and raw is not organic. Yes, there is a black market for raw milk. I cringe when I see it. Use the laws they have to close that black market…If someone gets sick (from raw milk), the newspaper article will not say raw milk, it will say milk…will hurt dairy farmers around the country. This proposal would be a step backwards.”
Neither Byrne nor Howie addressed the reality that growth in raw milk would render processors less and less relevant. Or maybe they did in the vehemence of their denunciations.
The only support McAfee had was from Pete Kennedy, head of the Farm-to-Consumer Legal Defense Fund. “This is a freedom of choice issue,” he said. “Consumers aregoing across state lines…You are making otherwise law abiding citizens into criminals.”
As I said, the fix was in. The proposal was voted down unanimously by the committee on Sunday, and then again today by a council that heard all committee recommendations.
McAfee wasn’t fazed, though. He said about twenty regulators had approached him privately to express interest in the subject. Perhaps he planted a seed.
I want standards and regulations. I want the FDA to come in and inspect my milk.
Fascinating. LOL
I am still here in Florida.
Yes I said that…but in the context that I wanted the FDA to regulate interstate commerce of raw milk…. "not ban it".
"If raw milk flows across state lines" by definition the FDA would have some authority over that portion that was permitted over state lines. Amending CFR 1240.61 would not give the FDA power inside of a state and its raw milk system.
Any food that crosses state lines comes under the Federal government authority either USDA or FDA in some fashion.
The FDA missed a great opportunity to come out to OPDC and test me and check my every crack and crevis. They have the authority to test OPDC anyway because OPDC makes raw milk cheese which is interstate legal. They just can not cross the line and check my raw milk products.
This is all very techincal. The FDA and the NCIMS is a techincal "complex political worm hole designed to be navigated only by mega milk, FDA and political fat cat titans".
As I walked out of the last council meeting, my lasting impression of NCIMS was a strange mixture of democracy with rumblings of fascism. I was treated very kindly by the chairs of both committees and I was able to speak freely with out interuption….that was the democractic part. There is no question that raw milk is now on the radar screen and is an openly dicussed and partially understood issue. That was my educational goal and it has been achieved. A respectful and well thought out raw milk seed has been planted.
The Fascist part was the uniformed FDA guards sitting or standing arround the conference with obsolute veto power. All deals were cut in the hallways and nothing got by big industry or the uniformed military presence of the FDA. The NCIMS is a tool of power used by the FDA to rule with absolute control. With the beneficiaries being big dairy ..not the people. Government power protecting the power of comercial profit is fascist. Knowing that part of our government is fascist….that drives me even harder in pursute of peoples rights and raw milk.
The mission of the NCIMS is as follows:
"To Assure the Safest Possible Milk Supply for ALL THE PEOPLE".
I started my speeches with this statement. Pasteurized milk is not safe for all the people and causes lactose intolerance and allergy in a significant percentage of the population.
Raw milk does not cause lactose intolerance and most people do not have milk allergies to raw milk. I said much much more as well. I also provided them with the hard science reference to all that I stated and quoted.
When my presentations were complete…there was silence…..and stillness…as the FDA watched the conventioneers. All votes were NO. But seeds of doubt in pasteurization and seeds of change were planted.
My plan….back to CA and my family of 37 million potential raw milk consumers.
We warned the NCIMS that intellegent regulation was the smart thing to do…..
We will be back to the NCIMS in two years. In two years the raw milk market will be exponentially larger. The interstate challenge that much bigger.
I made lots of friends at NCIMS and they respect what we are doing….they just can not speak of it. I spoke the truth and it was to the machine of power.
I feel very good. I feel like the student freedom rights protester who stood in front of the Chinese tank in Tiananmen Square. The tank stopped…at least for a minute as the world watched and took a breath.
Back to teaching and building…..it feels one hell of a lot better at the "raw roots" in CA.
All the best,
Mark
That said, I was glad to see that Mark invited the FDA to inspect his milk, and not necessarily all milk moving in interstate commerce. Rep. Ron Paul has proposed to simply remove FDA’s restriction on interstate movement of raw milk in final package form for human consumption. His HR 778 is one of the current crop of food safety bills that deserves support. This approach would leave regulation of raw milk to the states, which in Mark’s case would mean California.
Certainly there are rules enough in California concerning raw milk, and I hope that I don’t read Mark’s reporting from NCIMS to mean that he thinks regulation which is appropriate for an operation of his size and scope is necessarily appropriate for all raw milk producers. If he does, I’ll be concerned that whatever was in the hotel’s punch-bowl at the conference infected Mark with the same one-size fits all sickness that most of the other attendees apparently suffer from.
I support all local raw milk sources…at whatever effort level it takes to get quality raw milk to local consumers. There are 50 raw milk realities in our 50 states. Each with its own local political micro climate.
I just hate how the FDA creates criminals out of soccer moms and perfectly law abiding citizens. Pete Kennedy did an excellent job of addressing the criminalization of law abiding citizens and this very issue at NCIMS. Please do not mistake our efforts at delivering raw milk legally across statelines as pandering to the FDA. I am just trying my best to serve our consumers in Reno and Las Vegas. Right now they drive to Tahoe or LA to get the good stuff from a retail store.
This is just plain wrong, does not increase food safety, it is a crime against Americans and a food group. The only food group treated like this.
CP…welcome back. I missed you. I would like to take you up on your offer to draft a safe raw milk consumption protocol for beginning first time raw milk drinkers. I think you have a good idea. Please draft something and post it here. I will then draft a second version and post it and we can discuss the best verbage to get it just write. When it is all done….I promise to post the final version on our website.
At the NCIMS conference there was discussion about just this subject. So doubly so…it has merit.
CP….by the way….I am a little bit: narcissistic, egocentric, massocistic, fanatical, 100% grounded in my goals, over the top in love with my wife of 28 years and kids… and so far not depressed, maniacal, suicidal or homocidal. I think that is a pretty good combination of mental traits for my job. If you can not take hits as a raw milk farmer…then you can not provide raw milk for people.
As far as sympathy and empathy is concerned, lets just say…I have held more dying broken people ( or their families or loved ones ) in my arms in my 17 years as a paramedic than you can imagine in your worst nightmare. I was the one that went to Loma Linda to visit sick kids and see how they were. I held out my hand, opened my heart and I listened.
So stick that comment somewhere special.
My skin is tough but my heart is soft.
You just are not used to someone that is able or interested in sharing his soul or chronicling the experiences of the fight. I forgive you for this because you do not know me.
This is not about me….this is about our effort to get safe raw milk to people. I happen to be one of the people along with, Mike Schmidt, Ron Schmidt, Ted Beals, Ron Hull, Pete Kennedy, Sally Fallon, Liz Reitzeg, the RMAC crowd, Claravale, FTCLDF, Gary Cox and every other raw milk consumer and producer in America and Canada ( I apologize for leaving out your heroic names ).
CP…lets do something good together. Please draft a first round and lets see how it goes. No more name calling….it does nothing positive. Each of us is who we are.
I am open to your ideas. Please share.
Mark
http://www.jsonline.com/business/43259972.html
We are making a HUGE positive difference just a few years ago articles such as this were very rare now they show up every few days. TPTB must surely think that the raw milk drinkers are out of control and of course breaking the law. BUT WHO ARE THE REAL NATURAL LAW LAWBREAKERS us or them?
Its illegal to sell raw milk, but it is OK to sell baby formula from China with small amounts of melamine and all the approved Franken Phoods. Sort of sounds like a Hollywood Science Fiction movie does it not? Trouble is there is real suffering and pain involved and no happy ending UNLESS we change and that necessary change is being fiercely resisted by TPTB!
Mark’s valiant efforts to educate NCIMS reminds me somewhat of Don Quixote’s work. Many in the audience have a hand in setting that $11 price through the various Federal Milk Marketing Orders and have a vested interest in controlling the milk price that is paid to dairy farmers. You can get an idea of the workings of the Marketing Orders and the devastating prices they have recently set at
http://www.nffc.net/Pressroom/Press Releases/2009/PR 03.04 Dairy Farmers Refute Overproduction.html
I have considered as such in figuring up the details of my own herdshare. The idea is that you prefer healthy customers from a liability perspective, but you also want everybody to have an opportunity to experience raw milk and what it can do for you – so there are steps that could be taken to insure safe experiences for them.
I have considered, for example, not selling to folks who have taken antibiotics or other hardcore prescription meds in the past 6 or 12 months. It would be part of the herdshare contract and would help insure a good first experience with raw milk.
That may have been where you were going with this and I think it could work very well – not as regulation, but as guidelines.
You grasp the concept. People with a weakened immune system are the most vulnerable to becoming ill if there is a pathogen in the milk. Infants and children fall into this category because they do not have a completely developed immune system. First time raw milk drinkers need to be educated about this. It is the moral and ethical thing to do.
Before any person starts drinking raw milk they should:
1. start eating unprocessed organic foods
2. eat organic yogurt or kefir daily
3. take a high quality probiotic supplement
4. read the book The Body Ecology Diet
5. stay away from ingesting chemicals (this includes toxic household cleaners, soaps shampoos, toothpaste and chlorine)
6. do this for 6 months before trying raw milk
7. however, if people did this first, they would feel so great they wouldnt need raw milk
If a person is ill or for children and infants, I believe it is totally unwise to consume raw milk.
Mark,
Youve been playing this game for awhile. If you are sincere and think this would be good information to have available on your website, then you will write the information yourself. Im sure everyone on this blog would be more than willing to help you with ideas.
cp
Are you a health care professional who treats sick people? If not you really shouldn’t be giving out treatment programs about which you know nothing about.
You keep repeating the same thing over and over again. You know nothing of healing sick people. I suggest you read " Milk Diet As A Remedy For Chronic Disease" found on amazon.com.
Your unwillingness to work with Mark shows your closed mindedness and opinions which are not based on any science or fact.
Stop repeating the same old steaming pile of manure (I like that image).
Your list starts out reasonably…then it becomes unreasonable.
Have you been hurt by raw milk?
Has it caused a wound in you or some person that you love?
Your advice on #7 gives away an agenda. You seem to think that no one needs or should consume raw milk. The phosphatase enzyme is critical to bone growth and calcium utilitation, it is found in raw milk. Where else can it be found???
Asthma is improved by the fats and the probiotic bacteria found in raw milk. The PARSIFAL study showed the raw milk….as a single food was the one thing that improved allergies and asthma. So the other ideas are good but just a part of the bigger picture. Why the negative attack. It is hard to take you seriously as a partner in developing this raw milk protocol with you being so critical.
This is not a game. This is concensus building and cooperation.
Mark