Psst, wanna know what really happened to Aajonus Vonderplanitz, the raw-food guru who was reported to have died in a fall from the deck of his home in Thailand in 2013?
One of his raw food devotees, Richard Huynh, is trying to make the case that Vonderplanitz faked his death, and that he has been living secretly in the Philippines the last six-plus years.
On a private Facebook page devoted to keeping alive “The Primal Diet of Aajonus Vonderplanitz,” he posted a link to a video interview with two people very close to Vonderplanitz, a Venice, CA, friend, Larry Otting, and a Thai woman friend known as Wasma. The two seem to confirm that Vonderplanitz died from injuries he suffered in a fall from the deck of his house in Thailand, which I reported six years earlier. No matter.
Here is the commentary on the video from Huynh:
“As a recent primal dieter, I went to examine what really happened 6 years ago.
“Here I will give timestamps and quote the interview as well as write my thoughts in parenthesis as to why I think it’s a story and why I think AV faked his death.
“Please watch the video along with the timestamps to see what I mean
“Overall comments:
- Lucky (Larry Otting) and Wasma are laughing and smiling a lot in the video, especially around AV’s death, corpse and ashes -> red flags
- Lucky, Wasma describe how weak the fencing is, the way they describe it and the conversation going forward seems like they are trying to convince you that he really died
- Lucky, Wasma and interviewer (Paul K.) are in on the secret.”
Huynh then goes on to identify about a dozen places where Otting and Was either smile at each other or otherwise seem insufficiently bothered about what happened, to begin to make his case, at the end noting:
“(Look at how they word it, saying how if AV was still alive, he would be loud, trying very hard to convince you he’s really dead)“
“(At the end)
“Interviewer: “So it makes 0 sense that he just had enough of us all and that he hide some place”
“(now I know for sure the interviewer is in on it)”
For the record, a few weeks after Vonderplanitz died, I heard from a couple of people who knew him well, telling me about “sightings” of Vonderplanitz at Los Angeles area farmers markets. He looked as if he had had extensive plastic surgery, according to these reports, but his walk and build were recognizable by the people who saw him. The man walked quickly away when these people approached him.
Those reports prompted me to call Larry Otting, the close friend of Vonderplanitz. He told me at the time of Vonderplanitz’s reported death that he (Otting) had flown to Thailand to identify the body and make the burial arrangements. I told Otting I was hearing reports that Vonderplanitz might not be dead.
Vonderplanitz was a great creator of conspiracy theories around himself, based on his advocating for raw milk. In his tales, he was kidnapped by agents from the dairy industry and injected with poison (that he miraculously survived) and run off the road in Thailand by mysterious agents (and again miraculously survived), among various stories.
Otting knew the stories well, but was having none of it with regard to Vonderplanitz’s passing. “He’s dead,” Otting told me six years ago, dead serious. “I saw his body with my own eyes.”
This new conspiracy theory about Vonderplanitz brings to mind a whole series of far-out explanations emanating from the foodie movement, beginning in 2005, when I began writing about the movement for raw milk. It was that year, just as raw dairy was gaining in national popularity, that some 18 people became ill from drinking raw milk produced at Dee Creek Farm in Washington state. Some, including several children, became so sick they had to be hospitalized because of complications that included kidney failure.
There were a number of seemingly reasonable explanations put forth in both the raw milk and regulatory communities to explain the outbreak from the especially dangerous E.coliO157:H7 pathogen—the family that ran the farm was new to farming and to the challenges of producing safe raw milk, there had been heavy rains for weeks leading to muddy fields around the Dee Creek barn that made it nearly impossible to maintain sanitary conditions, and there wasn’t any regular ongoing pathogen testing at the farm.
For the Weston A. Price Foundation, which had encouraged the family that owned Dee Creek to organize a herd-sharing arrangement to distribute milk, none of the obvious explanations for the outbreak mattered. There was almost certainly some deviousness to explain the outbreak, speculated Sally Fallon Morell, WAPF’s founder and president, on the organization’s web site a few months later (and still there): there had been a suspicious car parked outside the farm’s barn in the days before the outbreak; there were other E.coli O157:H7 outbreaks in the state at the same time; perhaps due to bad water; or even “genetically engineered soy, created by using fragments of E. coli micro-organisms as a vector for gene insertion, fragments which can mutate easily and which find the perfect environment for proliferation in the acidic guts of grain-fed confinement cows.”
In other words, government shenanigans were conspiring to blame raw milk for an outbreak of serious illnesses that had to have other causes. When other outbreaks of illnesses from pathogens in raw milk sprang up over subsequent years, Fallon-Morell invariably brushed off the possibility that raw milk was the source of the illnesses. Tainted well water or corrupt public health inspectors were likelier causes—not the raw milk.
The fact that overly aggressive state and federal regulators came down harshly on raw milk farmers and users definitely gave some measure of credibility to Fallon-Morell, and likely sowed confusion among WAPF adherents for a number of years. It wasn’t until the fermented cod liver oil scandal of a few years ago, with any number of WAPF adherents becoming ill, that the conspiracy theories began developing holes. When people very committed to WAPF, like Ron Schmid and Kaayla Daniel, began questioning the safety of FCLO, Fallon-Morell branded them troublemakers. Daniel was voted off the WAPF board. As I described the snowballing problems on this blog, I was included as one of “three amigos,” with Fallon-Morell going so far as threatening to excommunicate from WAPF chapters guilty of the crime of quoting from my blog.
Never did Fallon-Morell or any other WAPF officials offer even a hint of concern about people getting sick, either from raw milk or from FCLO (aside from suggesting that some may have become ill because they took more FCLO than recommended). Those expressing concern about FCLO were always seen as driven by questionable motives, while Fallon-Morell’s motives were always pure. The disdain for nonbelievers continues to this day, even as a disturbing number of people closely affiliated with WAPF who were regular users of FCLO have become sick and even died over recent years.
In the current political climate, all these conspiracy theories take on a familiar ring. Since Donald Trump burst on the political scene, it’s been one conspiracy theory after another to foment trouble and cover for misbehavior.
It all started back in 2011, when Trump publicly encouraged his theory that Barack Obama was born outside the U.S., and thus not qualified to be president. It was pure delusion, and Trump eventually gave it up, in 2018, but without any apology. Crazy as it was, the birther thing got him enough political attention that he was able to launch his presidential candidacy.
I guess he figured if it worked once….. Again and again, he’s resorted to the delusion of conspiracy theories. There was the one about voter fraud in the 2016 election, which presumably accounted in his mind for the fact that Hillary Clinton won the popular vote by more than two million votes. He even put together a commission to investigate the supposed fraud, which fell apart when the evidence didn’t materialize. There were also the theories about Hillary Clinton’s State Department emails and about the Clinton Foundation’s misbehavior. With Trump controlling the U.S. Justice Department, he could investigate to his heart’s content, yet none of it has resulted in any substantive legal action.
He always seems to find conspiracy on the part of those investigating his questionable behavior; for example, he launched a major investigation of the FBI and its initial investigation of the Trump campaign’s Russian connections; the results are due in a week or so, but initial reports are that while there may have been some procedural errors, there was no hanky panky by highers up.
Lately, during the House impeachment hearings, we’ve been learning about yet additional conspiracy theories that apparently drove Trump to withhold aid voted by Congress for Ukraine. The most prominent one is that it was the Ukraine, not Russia, that sabotaged the 2016 American election by hacking the Democratic party’s emails, despite massive evidence, and court indictments and convictions, linking the hacking to Russia.
Once the Ukraine conspiracy is eventually put to rest, and the Rudy Giuliani capers come to nothing (except perhaps indictments of Giuliani), you can be sure Trump and company will have moved on to yet another conspiracy theory, and another, and another.
The part I don’t fully understand is why some large numbers of people, in both the food rights movement and among Trump followers, never seem to tire of the fantasy world explanations. Maybe I shouldn’t be puzzled. Conspiracy theories have been a staple of authoritarian regimes for a long time, whether from Adolph Hitler or Josef Stalin in the 1930s or Abdel Fattah el-Sisi of Egypt (“My favorite dictator,” says Trump) or Tayyip Erdogan of Turkey (hard to imagine how more than 45,000 people could have plotted a coup against the guy, though that’s how many have been arrested since 2016).
The only thing I can figure is that delusion is like a seductive and powerful drug, so powerful it can divert lots of seemingly normal and rational people from the reality of what is going on around them and right in front of them. There is no other reason I can think of to explain why people continue to believe in stories that always turn out to be wrong.
David, there really was a campaign, orchestrated by partisans in DOJ, FBI, and the intelligence community, led by the CIA’s John Brennan’s counter-intelligence operation, developing and using the phony Steele dossier, abusing the FISA court process, targeting the Trump campaign, begun before the election, to stop him in his tracks. The Steele dossier was ordered and paid for by the Clinton campaign and the DNC through Fusion GPS. Political dirty tricks. Tricky Dick would have approved, and been envious. This morphed into the Russiagate hoax, with Robert Mueller assembling a team of Clinton partisans from DOJ to spend $2.7 million on nothing at all. All of these are facts, not theory, not fantasy. The Horowitz report, due on the 8th, will touch on this, and the Barr/Durham team likely will produce indictments, although I have little faith in the swamp investigating itself. AG Barr is a swamp creature himself. You don’t remember Mueller’s role in stonewalling the 9/11 investigation? Spiriting key witnesses out of the country? There really is a swamp, and Robert Mueller is one of it’s creatures. I suggest you read Edward Snowden’s book, “Permanent Record” to understand just how far we’ve come from the fairy tale story we learned in school about our government. Our government is rapidly becoming a fascist police state, and both Republicans and Democrats are to blame. The media has become their errand boy. Obama was every bit as terrible as Dubya.
Gary, you are funny. I present a list of conspiracy theories that completely fizzled, and you come back at me with another conspiracy theory. This one, too, will fizzle. Yes, there may have been some sloppiness in the original FISA court process, but indications are the Horowitz report hasn’t found a smoking gun indicating intentional wrongdoing by Brennan, Comey, Mueller, Hillary, or any other higher ups.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/22/us/politics/russia-investigation-inspector-general-report.html
Our legal system may be tired around the edges, but it is all we have to separate us from real tyrannies, like Russia, Turkey, Egypt, North Korea, etc.–all the dictatorships Trump drools over, because he’d like to be like them, with total control to arrest and jail the people “plotting” against him, and no serious legal system to impede him. In the meantime, Mueller obtained indictments against 34 individuals and three companies; 8 pleaded guilty or have been convicted of felonies, including 5 Trump associates. Keep in mind that a dozen of the individuals were Russian intelligence and military officials incriminated in the hacking of the DNC emails, and are unlikely to stand trial because they won’t appear in the U.S. before an American court. Comey, Brennan, et. al. not among them. (And BTW, Mueller is a decorated Vietnam War vet; where was Trump during the Vietnam War? hint: bone spurs)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Counsel_investigation_(2017–2019)
Speaking of books, there’s a new one out by the founders of Fusion GPS, “Crime in Progress.” Turns out they are both former reporters with The Wall Street Journal, which gives them a lot of credibility with me, since the WSJ is known for hiring serious and proven journalists (I spent nine years there). They point out in their book that once they became political guns for hire, they were originally hired by anti-Trump elements in the Republican party. Once Trump moved toward the nomination, the Republicans had no more use for Fusion GPS, so they naturally hired themselves out to the Democrats. Anyway, you can take their story any way you’d like, but they found through some intensive investigating that Trump had close connections to Russia, and in particular oligarchs with money needing laundering. Interesting interview of them on NPR last week.
https://www.npr.org/2019/11/22/781589327/bosses-of-fusion-gps-tell-the-inside-story-of-the-steele-dossier
I keep wondering: when will you and other believers finally decide you’ve latched onto one conspiracy theory too many, and move on to reality?
it’s disappointing to see a seasoned journalist such as thyself, toss-around the term “conspiracy theory” as an expletive. In the real world, prosecutors get convictions of guys charged with criminal conspiracy, every day. human beings agree one with another to do something they know is wrong, at street level, so not surprising they do so at the very highest echelons of power.
at Nuremberg Germany after WW2, Robert Jackson’s main theory against the Nazi leadership, was : that a gang of crooks had seized power over that nation. Was he – then the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court of the US of A – a ‘conspiracy theorist kook’, too?
no = there’s a lot of hard evidence supporting some propositions that a certain enterprise was criminal in nature. Since you sneered at the notion that Barry Suetoro aka Barrack O’Bama was not born in America, take a gander at the pamphlet put out by Harvard Law Review extolling him being the first Negro to head it. In which the hard copy text says he was born in Kenya. We didn’t see that on the front page of the WSJ, though, did we? … during the ‘birther’ controversy
Don’t think your hero and our prez would have actually admitted Obama was born in the U.S. if it wasn’t absolutely positively true for 99% of Americans. He never ever ever admits to error. And even less often apologizes for his personal attacks.
David: There is little point in responding. All three of the sources you cite are shameless participants in the propaganda campaign. Do you also think WMD’s actually existed in Iraq, but we never found them? That North Viet Nam actually attacked U.S. vessels in the Gulf of Tonkin? That Lee Harvey Oswald was solely responsible for the JFK assassination? That the deadly attack on the U.S.S. Liberty by Israeli air and submarine forces on June 8, 1967 was a case of mistaken identity? In all of these cases, and I could cite many more, the evidence is overwhelming that they are nothing more than part of the propaganda campaign designed to further the interests of 1. Dubya’s war in Iraq. 2. LBJ’s intention to escalate the war. 3. Earl Warren’s desire, and for honorable reasons, to not do a real investigation, and allow the nation to move on. 4. LBJ’s re-election strategy (planned in conjunction with the Israeli’s for more than a year; for Israel a knockout blow to Egypt). The documentation for all of these is exhaustive, as is that Russiagate was a political dirty trick, and nothing more. What you call reality is what has been spoon-fed to you by media sources. Democracy really does die in darkness, and darkness has descended on once reliable bastions of journalism. It makes me sad that a man of your intelligence and experience in journalism has so little skepticism of official sources. You know, or should know that governments lie whenever it suits policy. Even five years ago it was still possible to read in the mainstream press articles critical of vaccine policy. That is no longer true. Your own Adam Schiff wrote a letter to both Zuckerberg and Bezos asking them to censor all content about vaccines which doesn’t come from official sources. They were both happy to comply. He also sponsored a House Resolution stating the vaccine injury does not occur. Harvard Medical School, tasked by HHS to investigate the rate of vaccine injury using Harvard Pilgrim Healthcare data, discovered that 2.6% of all vaccine administrations produce a reportable injury. One in thirty-nine. HHS stopped taking their calls, as this knowledge would have been fatal to policy, and it was never published. This is your sociopath: Adam Schiff.
One more thing: The DNC emails were not hacked. William Binney, one of the brightest and most technically-savvy of former NSA employees, has shown conclusively that that amount of data could not have been transmitted through any fiber-optic cable. The emails had to have been loaded onto an external drive and hand delivered to someone who got them to
Wikileaks. Nobody (except those involved) knows the details, but it may have had something to do with Seth Rich. Washington D.C. truly is a swamp, but it is un-drainable. I am as disgusted with the Republican Party as I am with the Democratic Party. I worry for my nation when so many possess the credulity to except what they are told without any skepticism or research. There are honorable people in government, yes, but it takes moral courage well beyond what most of us possess to speak up and endanger family and career. Edward Snowden, like Andrew Wakefield, John Kirakou, Chelsey Manning (who is still rotting in a dungeon), and others have this. Most of us don’t.
I wasn’t suggesting that governments don’t lie. Of course they do, and my blog has pointed out all kinds of examples in the food arena. My point was that many conspiracy theories used to explain important events, or to explain why people are prosecuted or not prosecuted, are fantasies or diversion tactics. And that conspiracy theories are being used much more often than ever before by those in power to explain away unpleasant realities. And that many seemingly intelligent and rational people are believing in these theories, even when they are repeatedly being shown to be without foundation. That’s all.
Stay in reality. Trump is a sociopath.
I awake everyday knowing that we have leaders in Congress that have not lost their minds, that seek the truth and smell the rats.
Conspiracy theory seeks out those with a need to use alternative facts because the real ones don’t work for them. There is a reason that so many that have been central to Trumps mafia team are in federal prison.
Reality and facts. They will save us all.
“reality and facts” you say? OK= then take dose from the situation not far from bucolic Kernan California. Mr McAffee … I dare you to read the topmost item on Henry Makkow’s website, today… a short essay about Los Angeles = with the punchline
“Q: How do you take the most beautiful and prosperous state in the nation and turn it into a third world shit-hole? A: Put Demoncrats in charge.
Mike Stone Lament of a Los Angeleno
Henry Makow, PhD[note 1] (b. 1949) is what you get when you cross a men’s rights activist with paranoid conspiracy theorist and an Anti-Semite. Makow believes the world is controlled by nefarious Judeo[note 2]-Masonic/Satanic/Commie forces, spearheaded by the Rockefeller Foundation. He also believes that the aforementioned concocted feminism, so that women wouldn’t have children, as part of depopulation efforts. His writings can be found on notorious websites Whale.to, Jesus-is-savior.com, and Alex Jones’ PrisonPlanet.
your non-sense about Dr Makow being “an Anti-Semite” is undone by the fact that he’s a Jew, himself, who lost relatives in the European genocides ( plural) 1933-1953… showing how poor your reading comprehension is. Or = more likely – that you troll this forum for no good reason but only to pollute it
of course you deliberately missed my key point : ie. there’s a lot of hard evidence to substantiate some “conspiracy theories’. Makow’s website is one of the best compilations of facts supporting the main theme of revisionist history : that there is a ages-long plan to install an anti-christ government over the whole planet
after studying the topic for half our lives, Dr Makow and I and many others can easily prove that “feminism is communism in drag” because we have in hand the writings of people who once promoted that agenda, then came to their senses and renounced it.
one of the main themes of the Bible, is : ‘if you reject understanding when it’s given to you, then God will take away even the understanding you do have’. …
govern thyself accordingly, Mr Dutcher
take your own advice, Mr McAffee … come to terms with the facts of this present situation … that being > Donald John Trump is the PRESIDENT of the Republic of the united States of America.
All your grumbling, muttering, kvetching, blubbering and false accusations cannot gainsay that much.
you’re a tragic figure = floundering-around in your pity-party with one foot nailed to the floor = your consumate self-righteousness … now 3 years since Donald Trump prevailed in the objective reality shared by the rest of us.
He did that by reaching the conscience of white Christian America.
And he’s doing it again, in the run-up to the 2020 election … against whoever’s the standard-bearer for the mixed multitude put up by the Demon-rats
what’s on the website [ URL below ] is a dose of reality, that you / your commie fellowtravellers would do well to read and heed. FOUR REASONS TRUMP WILL WIN IN 2020. Honestly assessing it will help you avoid a complete psychotic melt-down when Mr Trump wins the Presidency, again. Meanwhile >>> your mental problems would be best dealt with, somewhere other than on this raw milk forum
https://www.amren.com/news/2019/11/four-ominous-reasons-trump-will-win-in-2020/
In summary of the four reasons why Trump will likely win the next election; (1) the Democrats with the exception of Tulsi Gabbard are out of touch with ordinary Americans… and (2) they keep shooting themselves in the foot! Gabbard in my opinion is the only reputable and down to earth DNC candidate, yet her fellow Democrats with the exception of Bernie Sanders don’t seem to care very much for her. And right on queue Hillary Clinton (shaking my head) in an attempt to add to her worn out Russian collusion narrative, went out of her way to even accuse Gabbard of being a Russian operative!!! All I can say is that it’s a good thing she wasn’t elected President of the United States!
Ken Conrad: Well spoken. In California the legislature has taken away our polling places. Mandatory vote-by-mail. I voted by mail my entire working life, and hated it because going to the polls is an act of citizenship, an opportunity to see neighbors, and an opportunity to change your mind and get a new ballot. Now, for “no party preference” voters, our home-grown term for independents, we must request a primary ballot from the political party whose candidates we wish to choose from (all parties except the Republicans give that option) I requested a Democrat ballot solely so could vote for Tulsi. She would be our wisest CIC since the last of the WWII vet presidents. California is run by idiots. First, mandatory poisoning of every baby and child, and now mandatory vote-by-mail. If it weren’t for the natural beauty and my deep ties to family, friends, and the soil, I’d get the flock out of here.
Picky point: Trump “won” only due to electronic vote-flipping. https://www.mintpressnews.com/donald-trump-warned-of-a-rigged-election-was-he-right/224326/
Gary Ogden,
Not sure where you get your information, but according to the California Sec. of State website, voting by mail is totally voluntary.
https://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/voter-registration/vote-mail/
excerpt: Any registered voter may vote using a vote-by-mail ballot instead of going to the polls on Election Day. To request a vote-by-mail ballot for a single election or to request a vote-by-mail ballot for all elections (permanent vote-by-mail voting), follow the simple process described below.
Even permanent vote by mail is voluntary too:
https://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/voter-registration/vote-mail/#perm
Excerpt: Permanent Vote-By-Mail Voting
Any registered voter may become a permanent vote-by-mail voter. As a permanent vote-by-mail voter, you will automatically receive a vote-by-mail ballot for each election. To become a permanent vote-by-mail voter, you must complete an application, which is available from your county elections official, or you may use one of the following Vote-By-Mail applications.
David and Mark,
Some of the other comments above( esp. by you know who,LOL!!) have me shaking my head and chuckling. But let it be known, I am certainly no fan of Hillary Clinton, I did not vote for Clinton,nor did I vote for Trump, I despise them both!! Trump will not turn over his tax returns because he ( and his son-in-law Jared) are money launderers( For certain Israelis and certain Russians and I am sure there are more), and any accountant worth his salt will figure that out. And H. Clinton just feels too Goddamned entitled, along with her dubious actions too. I already know what “some” of you will say,LMAO!!
Thanks, I enjoyed this piece. I wonder if when you wrote it you were expecting attacks from conspiracists?
Mark, I expected that many readers of this blog would shake their heads in amazement and say, “That David Gumpert is one smart guy. I never realized I was being taken in the way I am….” No, seriously, I kind of anticipated there would be resistance to my view. But I was hoping I might prompt a discussion about why so many people are so easily and readily latching onto fantasy conspiracy theories that repeatedly prove to be figments of active imaginations. My own explanation is the growing disparities in income have created a rising tide of anger and resentment in the U.S. and elsewhere around the world. In their anger and resentment, Americans are seeking explanations for what has gone wrong, why a segment of the populace is getting ever richer, and another large segment of the populace is getting poorer. The failure of our leaders to invest effectively in education is a big reason. But that’s not much of a consolation to people who are angry and resentful. It’s much easier to blame hidden forces and people somehow pulling strings to make life miserable for the masses.
Thanks for replying. The attraction to conspiracies is a complicated issue, two key variables, I believe, is that there have been conspiracies uncovered in the past so there is a certain degree of groundedness being a skeptic, the other is the amount of anomie and powerlessness we feel today.
“… discussion about why so many people are so easily and readily latching onto fantasy conspiracy theories that repeatedly prove to be figments of active imaginations. ”
David, I would not bring up this subject on a raw milk blog since it has nothing to with milk but since you did, I would suggest that the biggest conspiracy theory of all time was perpetrated by certain American politicians and military, on the infamous 911 incident that the major media won’t touch because they’d lose their jobs or worse.
We are expected to believe that not two, but THREE steel buildings collapsed for the first time in history, from jet fuel and office materials fires. This despite the fact that particles of thermate, a military grade explosive, were found in the rubble as it burned for weeks after the fact. It’s also odd that the evidence was very quickly shipped off overseas so it couldn’t be properly examined.
I am not an investigative reporter but have a nagging feeling that we got hoodwinked on this one, to justify starting a war that has done nothing but cause horrible destruction and lots of deaths.
For anyone that hasn’t looked into it, https://www.ae911truth.org/ is a good place to start if you are so inclined.
Sorry about that, now back to our regular raw milk discussion…
After every major assault on the U.S., there are conspiracy theories that come out, and often sound very convincing. Attack on Pearl Harbor. Kennedy Assassination. 9-11 Attacks. I’ve read a lot about these, especially the Kennedy assassination. A second shooter. Secret Service backing off. Timing of Lee Harvey Oswald’s shots. Etc., etc. Couldn’t have happened the way the Warren Commission said. But after all these years, I’ve come to conclude they probably did happen that way. Maybe sometime we’ll learn who contracted with Lee Harvey Oswald. The Russians? Mob? Anyway, at the end of the day, sometimes you have to conclude that things just happen the way they happened. On 9-11, if you are going to buy into the idea of an inside job to set up the buildings, how do you account for the 19 (mostly Saudi) hijackers and all the planning they did? I suspect, once again, things happened as they appeared. All that unburned jet fuel (at the beginning of a cross-country flight) created tremendous heat, enough to melt everything around it.
I’m not really looking to get into a whole discussion of these events. They’ve been debated endlessly. My point, once again, is that whatever your belief about how those events I just referred unfolded, they were three events over 60 years; We now have the highest officials of our government regularly spinning out new conspiracy theories….about elections, migrants, Ukraine every few months. When one doesn’t pan out, they move onto the next one, and the next one. That kind of methodology is the stuff of tyrannies, where conspiracy theories are rolled out and acted on (via arrests of opposition pols, journalists, activists, etc.). It’s where we are headed, sad to say.
Mark why must you label the current discussion as an “attack “on David? What are you trying to do, fuel hatred and animosity???
My perception of this current discussion is that for the most part it is civilized. I for one have the greatest of respect for David… There are few people in this world that understands the value and respects the importance of free speech like he does. I believe that all of us who participate on this blog respect David for that very fact and hold him in high regard even though we may disagree with him…
An interesting twist to what I was saying. Don’t really see how I am fueling “hatred and animosity”, definitely not my intent.
Twist… Perhaps you could share with us your definition of “attack” Mark?
Ken, you are correct about how much I support free speech. It’s one of the main reasons I am making a big deal about the excessive spread of conspiracy theories by tyrants and would-be tyrants. Freedom of speech allows for questioning of conspiracy theories, and a focus on reality. Those in power who are peddling conspiracy theories nearly always want to limit free speech because it inevitably undercuts the fantasy stuff. That’s why Sally Fallon-Morell very quickly prohibited her organization’s chapters from linking to my blog–she wanted to prevent her followers from seeing the voluminous evidence that contradicted her views about FCLO. Same with Trump. He rails against “fake news”–his term for journalists who provide evidence contradicting his conspiracy theories. You can be sure that if he is reelected, he will follow in the footsteps of his mentors in Turkey, Egypt, and Russia and restrict or even jail journalists who report on a reality at odds with his fantasy narrative about those investigating allegations of wrongdoing against him and his cohorts.
I didn’t comment in order to battle but thank you for your offer.
Back to milk. There is this youtube to discuss.
Nature’s Perfect Drink: Milk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ud_C1kNxZac&feature=youtu.be
Joseph
Thank you so much for posting this video by Dr Bruce German. The founder of the UC Davis IMGC. He is the leading milk researcher in the world. Watch the video with a bit of an eye for Code. He mentions breast milk and milk from ancient times. Those are raw milks.
I just returned from my 8th IMGC conference in Denmark. Each of the Phd presenters made a special point to share with us that processing has negative effects on milk and its powerful health and immune elements and benefits. His work is funded by industry and grants from government. He can not just say he loves raw milk. Read into what he is actually saying ! He would lose research funding if he did.
I hold Dr Bruce German in the highest regard.
Hey everyone. Please don’t confuse Mark with Mark Mcafee
I don’t know who the other Mark is.
Thanks for pointing out the other mark…
As far as the Larry Otting and Vonderplanitz story is concerned, that’s all so strange. I knew them both. They were into some strange things and beliefs. Venice beach types. I mean no disrespect from that. It was just a strange lifestyle with all sorts of conspiracy theory and alternative stuff.
To think that Augunus refused a blood transfusion and died as a result is pretty weird itself. Falling off a porch in Thailand is pretty out there by itself. Thailand has all sorts of weird stuff going on and draws sex tourism and the like.
Just a whole lot of weirdness.
David, You might know MIchael Goodwin of New York Times fame. I was wondering what you thought of his recent op-ed in the New York Post in regards to the New York Times long descent from credibility. Another conspiracy theory?
No, I wouldn’t call his criticisms of the NY Times a “conspiracy theory.” He is simply criticizing the paper for what he sees as a lack of impartiality. He says the paper’s news pages now mix fact with reporters’ opinions. A conspiracy theory might be if he said something to the effect that the so-called “deep state” had taken over control of the NY Times behind the scenes, and was directing the paper to be anti-Trump. He’s not suggesting that, or any other kind of imagined plotting to explain the paper’s approach.
Forgot to add the link.
https://nypost.com/2019/11/30/goodwin-the-new-york-times-long-descent-from-credibility/?utm_source=twitter_sitebuttons&utm_medium=site%20buttons&utm_campaign=site%20buttons
Not about milk (again, sorry) but there are some parallels between wine and milk and I found this article interesting, hope some of you do too:
The Soil Stewards of Frey Vineyards
https://www.cornucopia.org/2017/10/update-frey-vineyards/
David, “All that unburned jet fuel (at the beginning of a cross-country flight) created tremendous heat, enough to melt everything around it”
is just mot correct look into it impossible – not hot enough to melt steel And how do you explain the pictures of diagonally sliced steel beams, is that a coincidence?? end of story believe and spread what you wish I will not pursue this here because I respect you and understand the limits.
My latest batch of fresh cheese fromhttp://www.lawtonsfamilyfarm.com/index1.html is as good as real food gets, propagate that.
Interesting story by a guy who used to work for Alex Jones. How dealing in conspiracy theories can aggravate existing craziness.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/05/magazine/alex-jones-infowars.html
On the 9-11 events (and others), just wish there was some kind of official record or finding, i.e. court suits with discovery, Congressional hearings, indictments, commission findings, etc., etc. That’s what the Mueller investigation has, actual findings of wrongdoing (as evidenced by convictions by juries in courts of law). That’s what all the Trump & Co. conspiracy theories don’t have. In our rule of law, such official/legal findings are dependent on meeting certain minimal standards. Don’t tell me it’s “deep state” sabotage. Trump & co. has had three years to prove its conspiracy theories. The 9-11 conspiracy theorists have had longer. So far, zilch.
P.S.Agreed, Lawton’s makes great cheese. Actually, lots of wonderful raw milk cheeses coming from small producers throughout New England.
Hey you all, this is Sally Oh, David’s web magician 🙂 The reply button is not showing for some reason and I have a ticket open for that. The weird thing is, it’s there… if you hover over where it’s supposed to be to the right of the top line of the comment, your cursor changes to the pointing hand. If you click, then the reply box appears. Hopefully this will be resolved in the next few hours and you’ll see the word reply but right now… it’s not visible.
OH: the “submit comment” button is also invisible! That’s to the far right side of the comment box under your name and email address. Hover till you see the hand and click 🙂
Thanks Sally…
aha! … a secret routine that only the insiders know about
now it says “Post Comment” below the fields for email/ name
Thank You Sally!!
See article in the Rutgers news:
Rutgers hosts workshop for women, veteran farmers
https://www.dailytargum.com/article/2019/12/rutgers-hosts-workshop-for-women-veteran-farmers
Gordon this may come as a big surprise, but… YOU are an insider. You’ve been here longer than most and post more than anyone maybe outside of David and MMM.
Dr Heckman we always like to see, because he tends to post factual based stuff not opinions. Mark McaF, is obvious biased yet greatly appreciated by most of us that are NOT insiders and wish to stay somewhat in the loop from all sides.
actually, Ora, I’m better called “an outlier”… versus Mister Gumpert’s role as the voice of the Eastern Establishment.
there is no point talking to anyone who can watch the videos the THREE World Trade buildings, collapsing into their footprints precisely as happens with controlled demolitions – yet not see very sophisticated grand conspiracy behind it. And I don’t mean 19 little camel jockeys
I show folks the scene at the Pentagon, that same day, and defy them to show me remains of the = supposed ! = commercial airliner which hit it. They cannot. But rather than start to think for demselves about the difference between the state-sanctioned version, contradicted by the facts, their mind seizes up. They turn away muttering that 911-Truthers are “cranks”.
For David Gumpert to start acknowledging the laughably-obvious contradictions between what his employers = the propaganda factories = pump out, versus what Professor Carol Quigley taught at Georgetown re: Tragedy & Hope requires him to re-assess his entire career as a hod-carrier in the mainstream propaganda machine = the Wall Street Journal, etc.
Marshall McLuhan said “when someone feels his identity is threatened, he has a mandate for war”. … thus, guys like me and Dr Henry Makow, who point to the facts re geopolitics, are seen by court historians/ on-side journalists, as The Enemy. One example will suffice : FDR’s own son in law ( Curtis Dall ) wrote in his book that the top echelon of the US of A was well-aware that the Japanese were preparing to attack Pearl Harbor. Yet the War Party let it happen – 3000 men sacrificed – as the pretext needed to get America into WW 2. You have yet to read that in the Wall Street Journal
Gordon, first off I wouldn’t call Mr. Gumpert a voice of the Eastern Establishment or anything else. I’m thankful for this website. I trust David, enough said. Although you voice many of the concerns I have that most ignore.
Watson,
In 2008, the Canadian Jewish Congress filed a human rights complaint against Makow for a column he authored in what the Southern Poverty Law Center called the “anti-Semitic, conspiracy-mongering Toronto Street News,” in which he quoted Mark Glenn as describing Judaism as a “cancer.”[4][5]
Articles of Makow are often published on Smoloko News, a website so anti-semitic Jean-François Gariépy looks sane in comparison. Yet, Makow claims to “express the authentic Mosaic Jewish spirit, a commitment to universal truth and morality” in contrast to the SATANIC Cabalist Jews.
A Jewish person that hates Jewish people, have to believe what HE says,LOL!!
Thanks, John, for providing this info. The thing that Watson fails to acknowledge (I think he understands it) is that within every ethnic or racial group are those who are willing to incite against or murder their own. We see American Christians engaging in mass shootings against other Christians. We see extremist Muslim suicide bombers take out dozens or hundreds of innocent Muslims. We see Jews like Makow slandering other Jews in false representations of history. The list goes on and on. It’s pathetic stuff, but a reality of human nature, I’m afraid. Definitely can’t be relied on to inform us of any further “truths.”
if you can point me to one single item, which Henry Makow knows is a “false representation of history”, now’s your chance
in fact, Dr Makow states time after time, that he is providing the FACTS as he finds them, in order to awaken everyone as to the utter mendacity of grand conspiracies ( plural ) of geopolitics through the ages. In which Jews are being set up as the patsies, AGAIN.
the baseline of his own personal history, is that he was brought up as an unusually high-achieving boy, believing all the history we were all programmed. When ‘the sky fell in on him’ = a tenured professor = for criticising feminism at the University of Manitoba, he started to think for himself.
David Gumpert : I sincerely hope you muster the intellectual integrity to assess what Dr Makow has to say about how Zion-ism took over Jewry in modern times, much to the detriment of those folks.
I’d much rather talk about raw milk … but Dutcher’s studied dis-information has polluted this forum to the extent that his libel of Makow, ought to be dealt with
just one single item out of the thousands of pages of essays on DR Makow’s website, will make your point.
let’s have your take on the Havaara transfer agreement, whereby a Jew in 3rd Reich Germany could sell his property to the govt. then take out that amount in credits for property to be received in Palestine…. just a figment of Dr Makow’s perverse imagination? Or an historical fact which opens the whole can of worms of the extent of Zion-ist complicity with Hitler’s executive officers
Watson, please don’t post any more Holocaust-denial crap here, or I’ll remove it, and you. To suggest that German Jews could somehow be compensated for their property is 180 degrees at odds with what happened, and what the Holocaust was about. Its major goal, before it morphed into a murder orgy, was THEFT of Jewish property–businesses, art, real estate. I know about it well, because my grandfather had his rendering business confiscated in 1936. Adding insult to injury, he was jailed for three years. His only good fortune, if you want to call it that, is that he was tried and jailed within what remained of the civil justice system (as opposed to the SS, Nazi system), where he probably would have been tortured and murdered. When he was released in August 1939, he was thrown out of the country, and made it to the U.S., where he had relatives. His wife, my grandmother, decided to remain behind a few months and look after her own mother. War broke out on Sept. 1, and she never got out, was murdered in a concentration camp. I know all this because I researched it, went to Germany and looked at the prison and court records (the Germans are fastidious record keepers). I’ve known other Holocaust survivors who experienced similar property confiscation, murder of relatives. In fact, a cousin of mine last year traveled to Germany to be presented with artwork that was stolen by the Nazis during the 1930s–the Germans have tried to make amends for their crimes, and are still returning stolen property.
This systematic tearing apart of the German legal system in the 1930s and 1940s, preparatory to the actual Holocaust, explains why hearing U.S. AG William Barr recently state that not all Americans might get police protection in the future gave me the creeps. It’s exactly what unfolded in Germany in the 1930s. So please, take your and Makow BS elsewhere. It won’t be tolerated here any longer.
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/12/4/20995074/william-barr-police-protest-shootings-consent-decree
Thank You David. I really appreciate hearing your family history,as sad as it is, it should be a lesson to ALL Americans right now. I agree with you on your statement about Barr giving you the creeps, seems a lot of folks that are in power right now are rather creepy too.
Hope this will end the discussion, now back to raw milk please. https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2019/investigations/afghanistan-papers/afghanistan-war-confidential-documents/?wpisrc=al_news__alert-national–alert-world–alert-politics&wpmk=1
That link shoulda been https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2019/investigations/afghanistan-papers/afghanistan-war-confidential-documents/ … you can read and or link to the rest of the story.
https://europe.stripes.com/pcs/got-milk-discover-all-things-milk-near-aviano-italy
The Stars and Stripes “Armed Forces News” makes a very nice statement about the best foods of Italy when it references access to local fresh raw milk to our soldiers serving in Italy.
Its ok for our soldiers…but not for the FDA and our own CDC.
They do make reference to boiling just to “make the brass happy” back home.
Mark
Mark,
Really nice article, boy would my wife and I would love to go for a visit. But, We would have to leave our cows :>(
Herr Dutcher … Dr Makow – an earned Phd in English literature – has over 2 decades’ worth compilation of material on his website, substantiating his opinions. Highly recommend you study it, before you display your ignorance on this forum. Henry Makow is one of the world’s experts on the machinations whereby the Zionists co-operated with the German Workers Party. Especially : who funded Adolph Hitler. Confer with the Havaara agreement, and the transcripts of Adolph Eichman’s trial, in Hannah Arendt’s book. The “ZI” in Nazi stands for Zion-ism. Can you cope with that?
Dr Makow specializes in making available the HARD EVIDENCE FROM CONTEMPORARY FIRST-HAND ACCOUNTS that the Zionists were in charge of keeping order in the ghettos and delivering Jews to the work camps, in exchange for Eichmann et al. allowing preferred individuals to “escape” to Palestine. But you haven’t read that in the Wall Street Journal, have you?
that complaint against Dr Makow by the Zionists, disappeared over the horizon of time : never adjudicated, because section 13 of the federal Human Rights Commission, was repealed.
as for the SPLC : now being exposed for the criminal racket it always was
All in all = Herr Dutcher = your lastest mockery cinched my suspicion that you’re on this forum for no good reason but to wear out the saints. You have not contributed a syllable furthering the Campaign for REAL MILK
i agree with you Mr Gumpert. … notice that as that thread went sideways, I repeatedly pronounced “back to talking about REAL MILK” / that your forum is no place for that subject
but there’s nothing so useless it cannot at least be used as a bad example : vis = Mr Dutcher’s mockery being a textbook example of how a troll operates on the internet to pollute discourse.
It’s your website, so you get the last word. Yet until you examine what Dr Henry Makow has to say, you have a lot to learn on the topic which may not be mentioned.