It sure would be nice if the emerging food rights movement could always pick its spots to protest government brutality and criminality against farmers and food clubs. Note, I am choosing my words carefully here. Yes, when government agents from ten or more agencies steal hundreds of pounds, thousands of dollars, worth of food–not once, but twice in 15 months– that members of a club have contracted for, that is brutality and criminality.
I’m talking about the Rawesome Food Club situation, but it’s not just Rawesome that has been brutalized. It’s Denise and Joseph Dixon (Morningland Dairy), Barb and Steve Smith (Meadowsweet Dairy), Dan Allgyer, Michael Hulme, Toni Bechard, Brigitte Ruthman, Wayne Craig, Mark Zinniker, Max Kane, Vernon Hershberger, Grassfed on the Hill food club, Gary Oaks, Richard Hebron…Jeez, try saying all those in one breath. And their compatriots in Canada are intent on making an example out of Michael Schmidt. I’m sure I’ve missed some names here, and we don’t even know all those that have been hit hard by the ripple effects of the government clampdown on Rawesome and these other food clubs and farmers. Sharon Palmer was just one of many farmer suppliers to the food club.
Not long ago, after I wrote about how the raids against Rawesome were threatening the availability of nutrient-dense food to many people, someone commented that she’d just go to another food club in Los Angeles to get her food. Sure, that might work for a while…till they go after that food club.
Believe me, they will keep picking farmers and food clubs off, one by one, unless people stand up and say, Enough! But so long as they say, as Amanda Rose and Raw Milk Advocate have essentially said, “Well, I don’t approve of Sharon Palmer, so I’m going to sit this one out,” we’ll be playing into the thugs’ game plan.
In addition to picking farmers and clubs off one by one, they want to divide the opposition. They do that most effectively when Amanda Rose states, “I am hearing from LA sources that some consumers have looked into the Palmer allegations…” Yes, whisperings and rumors are what they want. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: Sharon Palmer isn’t charged with fraud in outsourcing. She is charged with selling raw milk without a license and selling food that didn’t meet federal labeling law requirements. If there are other charges against her, take those up separately. But for the thugs trying to scare people away from food clubs, that wouldn’t serve their real purpose.
One indication of how much the authorities relish these internal whispers and accusations is when Milky Way says, “What’s really odd here is that a movement so seemingly passionate about everything except food safety, tolerates vendors outsourcing and mis-labeling food…” No matter what you do, these apologists for the government crackdown will find fault. Backing a food club under attack? You don’t care about safety. Get obsessive about the safety issue, and then they tease you about why you aren’t defending this farmer or that farmer.
I happen to be on the RAWMI Advisory Board, and like many others in favor of food rights have said that food safety is a high priority. RAWMI is but one approach for encouraging safety for raw dairy. But if the producers are all bullied and intimidated out of business, there won’t be any safety issues to worry about, will there?
The challenge to food rights is coming to a head even as I write. Michael Schmidt had undertaken a brave hunger strike in Canada. Max Kane and Vernon Hershberger are doing their own hunger strikes in direct sympathy. Others are joining in.
I’d much prefer to have the kind of great discussions that occurred following my previous post about handling calves and feeding dairy cows all grass or including some grains. Those are useful discussions that inform and educate. The more intense the government’s campaign, the more they are likely to become a luxury…and eventually even hypothetical in nature.
It’s tempting, when the battle heats up, to want to find a nice safe place on the sidelines. The authorities are hoping lots of people will want to do that. Things like hunger strikes and courthouse protest rallies make them nervous. They fear above all the masses finding out the truth about what is happening. And what is happening is that the thugs are systematically seeking to deprive us of nutrient-dense foods, using the excuse of food safety. It would be nice if everyone could just get a goat, but even if they do, the thugs may well come for those as well. Didn’t a judge just one-up the FDA and say we don’t have a right to our own cow, or to its milk?
The time is now. I hope I’ll see some of you in Los Angeles this week.
***
Probably his fullest assessment of raw dairy comes today from food writer Michael Pollan in today’s New York Times. He considers the advantages (taste, nutrition, better cheeses) and disadvantages (“several cases of people, especially children, getting sick…”), and then concludes:
“You do have to wonder about the Food and Drug Administration’s priorities. Why is the government putting its resources into shutting down raw-milk producers, a teeny-tiny ‘industry,’ when there are many more serious threats to food safety on factory farms? (In fact the overwhelming majority of illnesses tied to milk and cheese come from pasteurized products.) While Amish dairymen are being raided by the F.D.A., Jack DeCoster, the notorious Iowa egg producer whose filthy, salmonella-infected eggs were linked to an outbreak that sickened more than 1,500 people last year, received a mild warning letter from the F.D.A. What is going on here? Sounds like political theater to me.”
You were in a position many months ago to quell the "whispers." So was the WAPF. Anyone could have double-checked the Vonderplanitz report and come out with a statement either supporting it or refuting it based on their own specific checks of the data in the report. You and the WAPF chose not to do that and have created the context for these "whispers." If this was all orchestrated by the FDA, then you and I both have played our roles well.
Amanda
But once again, you are getting sidetracked. Read the list of names again of those farmers and food clubs picked out by government policymakers over the last few years as examples for intimidation. That's what this is about.
David
I was suggesting that you investigate the fraud rigorously, not just make a statement. Perhaps you afford me too much influence as well, highlighting my comment here in your post. If you're not important, then neither is my staying home.
My concern with the list of names is that it is not vetted in any way. I'm sorry, but I won't support consumer fraud. Prop it up as a case of food freedom and I'm still not going to support it. Put it next to Barb an Steve Smith and it might just piss me off.
An effective movement picks and chooses its moments.
I get annoyed by the "you have a thing against so-and-so." My "thing" is against consumer fraud.
I'm on a project, so if I don't respond, I'm caught up on something else. I didn't expect to end up in one of David's posts here under a deadline.
David, why would you write that? The fraud in outsourcing most certainly is part of the DA's complaint, which is public knowledge. A reporter with the Pasadena Patch (I supplied a link in the other post) has covered this extensively.
As to Palmer being the "only one", there were only 3 persons arrested. Palmer, her employee Victoria who also represents WAPF, and Stewart who is a co-owner (or at least original investor) in Sharon Palmer's farm. The three are all linked together. And I pointed out clear consumer misrepresentation by Organic Pastures on the WAPF website and in farmer's markets and elsewhere which continues to be ignored, because we shouldn't "get bogged down in the details," as McAfee continues to be the self-proclaimed leader of the raw milk movement, not only in California, but nationwide. He is not a part of this suite, nor is his business threatened by it. So what is his real motivation for leading these protests? I think it is obvious.
Why aren't there rallies for the herd share programs being targeted in places like Santa Cruz County? Hasn't FTCLDF filed a case on their behalf? Or is it because some of these herd share programs don't want to co-operate with Mark McAfee that they are now not worthy of our attention?
If there are "divisions in the ranks" it is not because of the "thugs' game plan." Of this point you are 100% wrong Mr. Gumpert. The dirty laundry needs to be taken care of. The "thugs" didn't make it dirty.
Do you all really think the press is going to pick up on Mark's educational materials over chicken fraud? A big rally will get press and we'll just see how that press works out for everybody.
Deborah — If the Rawesome management has cooperated in fraud and so has one of its suppliers, I don't see that there is much to support. Who exactly should continue the club if these charges are true? There is nothing keeping anyone from starting a new club. They didn't have licenses so you could just drive your car to Venice with a few coolers full of food and start one today.
Actually, I would be very interested in a post from David on exactly what he hopes to come out of this rally. Are you guys hoping to take a shot against the interstate ban on raw milk? Is there a tie-in with herd shares given Palmer operated one? Does someone think this a great test case for the food club concept? I look at it and see consumer fraud, but perhaps I am missing some nugget of political significance.
Yes I am opportunistic
Yes I want to educate
Yes I am a market builder
Yes I am a guerilla marketer and teacher and I will try to exploit every consumer and media opportunity that rears it's head,
Why….because you cannot change laws until you have done at least three things:
1. Build a solid market and have tens of thousands drinking raw milk and loving the stuff.
2. Established a proven, very public track record of safety.
3. Change the media perception of raw milk at least regionally.
All of this is done by incessant teaching,activism, and food safety plans ( RAWMI )
I was asked by a raw milk insider last week….why not just change the stupid laws?
Answer…
This can not happen until the people and their electeds agree that there is a new normal. Big Dead Milk will always win until that tipping point is reached. They will always beat you to the lobby influence punch until we are well past the tipping point.
CA is at the front of this pioneering market change. All States will look to CA and follow sooner or later. We have a huge responsibility to teach well, grow solid raw milk markets, get additional farmers to join in, get CA CowShares defined so they can join in service without being criminalized and having SWAT Teams taking everything they own, and speak and teach the press.
Market building will result in condions ripe for legislative change. Market building is good for farmers and costumer health.
Thursday is huge….all of the Media are at the court house covering Dr. Murray and his blatant Michael Jackson IV sedative screw up. Why not have a pro raw milk rally. The media will love it.
I am sick of the observers being critical of rally's, critical of unity. When a microphone is given to you…you chose what the message will be. The message is this;
We the people can not drink pasteurized milk. It makes us sick. Raw milk is safer than most any other food, easily consumed with out illness, allergies or lactose intolerance. Yet…the FDA refuses to allow universal production or access to raw milk. FDA are corrupt and in collusion with big Ag processors.
"Hey hey FDA, do not take raw milk away" ….that is the rally cry and chant for Thursday.
Or…put raw milk in my glass ….the FDA can kiss my ass…..Song loudly….
The most profound thing that I can do is build a massive successful raw milk market that is safe. Track records of safety and healthy farmers and consumers….that is what I call a foundation for real change and opportunity for jobs and a healthy next generation.
http://www.foodpoisonjournal.com/food-poisoning-information/everything-you-wanted-to-know-about-e-coli—but-really-didnt/
http://www.foodpoisonjournal.com/food-poisoning-information/e-coli-and-its-sometimes-deadly-result-hemolytic-uremic-syndrome-hus—what-is-it/
October 2, 2006
Day 26 Hospital
We had had three wonderful days of medical continuity and today brought a change with all new doctors and nurses. This is the difficult part of a long term stay in a hospital. Everyone had to catch up as to what Chris had experienced over the past 3 days.
Now that Chris was no longer on the ventilator, his blood pressure began to escalate. The resident doctor talked to me about all the plans for him: I.V blood pressure meds, respiratory therapy, physical therapy, and inserting PICC line. There would be no dialysis today. His counts looked good.
This was the first time in the 5700 PICU that the day nurse had to assist with two patients. They must have been shorthanded. Someone must have called in sick. The nurse was busy in the other room when I noticed Chris was having trouble breathing. I also noticed his feet were twitching a bit. I grabbed the attending doctor walking by to check on Chris. I told the doctor that I just wanted to make sure he had been given all of his blood pressure and seizure medicine. She looked it up on the computer for me and said his next round was due at 10:00. It was 10:07. When the doctor left, I went into the next room and told the day nurse she would have to stop what she was doing and give Chris his meds. She was not in least offended by my behavior and gave Chris the dose he needed. She still had to finish up with the other patient, but returned in 15 minutes to review everything that Chris needed for the day.
About an hour later, he received a breathing treatment. Afterward, he was pale and his blood pressure escalated. At this time he was on two different blood pressure meds. One was given every 6 hours and the other every 4 hours. His 2nd blood pressure medicine was now given. I asked the day nurse to please contact the doctor because there had been a 24 point jump in his blood pressure even after the blood pressure meds had been given. She contacted the doctor and gave Chris some Ativan.
For whatever reason, they tired an oral blood pressure med for Chris. This induced vomiting and a huge crying spell. He wanted to go home. We all wanted to go home. I climbed into bed with him, snuggling him close to me. It felt so good to hold him. He sobbed his heart out. His blood pressure came way down. A moms love is the greatest medicine.
Somebody signed-off on the August 3rd, 2011 raid on Rawesome and somebody commanded it and x number of somebodies participated in it. Those somebodies are responsible for the theft and destruction of Rawesome property under the fig-leaf of taking samples.
Does anyone reading this think that I countenance fraud?
Join or die.
Mr. J. Ingvar Odegaard
As a consumer I really liked the information posted earlier about cows. What they eat, how the calves are cared for. This is good stuff to educate consumers like me who otherwise knows nothing of the subject.
I also appreciate Mark's efforts and hard work to promote raw milk. Griping and complaining gets you nowhere. I don't think a few bad apples should deter us from speaking loudly and proudly about raw milk. There will always be some unscrupulous hack, and we can't let them dictate the course of action.
Mark, there is no we, without I. Your calls for "unity" have gone beyond annoying and entered "agree with me or shut up" territory. Apparently, dissent is only the highest form of patriotism when your team isn't in charge.
I am trying to understand how WAPF could have made some sort of investigation or comment on Palmer? This statement just appears bafflingly absurd to me. Also, why is WAPF responsible? As far as I know, they have no direct affliation with or support of that particular club – I have never seen Rawsome as a conference sponsor, in the journal, and the like… so why do you feel compelled to somehow drag them into something that really isn't their business to boot.
If anyone could have done it, why didn't you? I think you would find it is none too easy as you make it seem.
I was the one who outed McAfee and I know first hand the personal cost. I know what it takes and I know the cost. I don't play a leadership role in the movement and feel no obligation with Rawesome. I would rather spend time with my children. If the OPDC case taught me anything it's that folks don't seem to care about consumer information. Raw Milk Advocate seems to be making that point pretty clearly with his story about his recent farmer's market visit.
On Rawesome, anyone in the leadership could have followed the Vonderplanitz trail to see where it led but, instead, chose to take the position that Vonderplanitz was out to get Stewart, much like my outing McAfee was apparently my personal vendetta against him. (As if I filled up his bottles myself with product from a 10K cow dairy.) I single out WAPF because it is probably the primary leader in the raw milk movement. One of its chapter leaders is personally involved in this case. It hardly seems like a stretch for WAPF to provide leadership.
In any case, now we are left with a rally supporting…. hmmm.. I guess we'll find out. It's too bad we don't know. That would have been good information to have.
Amanda
**
In order to understand the loss, you have to understand FTCLDF. IMO – I've watched their operation since first fighting NAIS. They tend to be unprepared in each case they attend and in one case actually supplied information to the Judge which wasn't required that lost the case. FTCLDF usually sends out their "calls for cash" right before the trial and right after. With the traditional cries of "small farmer loses due to big bad agency."
Here is a case in point. Years ago on a conference call when FTCLDF was preparing to sue the USDA in Federal Court, I asked which attorney was going to be running the case. When X spoke up, I asked him if he could practice in that arena. He said "Not yet." I asked what the plan was "He said – I'm just going to complete the requirements." Now I had researched the requirements and asked who his sponsor would be. Silence. I asked if he had registered for the course required to complete the process. He said "I'm not aware of any requirement, but I'll do it." I asked how he was going to manage to do that considering there were no more courses scheduled for the year. Silence. I was then asked to leave the call.
Until of course I filed an "Intent to Sue" the USDA and also formally requested the DOJ investigate the practice of creating "Barriers of Entry" to small farmers (in effect supporting Monopolies) in the Ag Market. Guess who showed up then wanting to know how I could do such a thing? Didn't I know there were channels and ways to lobby? Didn't I know that by filing this paperwork I could actually cause the Federal Government to implement NAIS overnight? and funniest of all – the DOJ, Attorney General and USDA had actually responded – would I please "share" what they had told me? (Wow – I didn't know how powerful I was ).
Bull pucky. I invited them to research exactly as I had through Blacks Law Dictionary and an excellent resource I had up in Wisconsin. I invited them to do the leg work and encourage their members to protect themselves pro-actively.
I believe that FTCLDF is no better than the Agency they state they are attempting to sue. In fact one of their Board Members actually sits on the Committee to oversee the "new" animal identification program and released (3 months after the fact) that there would be a "listening session", that "the organization" had tried everything to stop the program, and could "Grassroots" people send cash to fight the very program that was crafted under his/her hand.
**
Then you obviously are not reading the facts of this case very carefully. Victoria Bloch was one of the three arrested, and was an employee for Sharon Palmer, and was (still is?) the WAPF representative for the LA area. She worked on Sharon Palmer's farm. She had direct access to EVERYTHING. How would Amanda Rose or any other consumer get access to private information? And WHY was Victoria Bloch, a leader of WAPF, arrested along with Palmer and Steward? You are asking the wrong persons your questions. WAPF should be answering your questions. But hey, why get bogged down in the details, right?
The charge against the Rawesome defendants of mislabeling does not relate to alleged outsourcing. It is a generic charge used against some raw milk producers, charging that the labeling they use doesn't conform with federal and/or state regulations. There is mention in one of the supporting legal documents relating to bail citing evidence of outsourcing. But that is NOT part of the list of formal charges against Palmer or any of the others. Please read the charges carefully. Count 10 says Palmer and Stewart "sold, delivered, gave away, provided, and produced food that did not bear a label that complied with the labeling requirements prescribed by the Sherman Food, Drug and Cosmetic Act." Stop ranting about things you no nothing about.
Amanda (and others),
Related to above, there is no charge of "fraud" contained in the formal charges, as well. You won't find the word among the 13 counts in the "Felony Complaint for Arrest Warrant." I don't think you'll find it anywhere in the document. There are charges of "unlicensed business", "food facility without a permit", "processing milk without pasteurization", among others. Once again, you are throwing around loaded terms that are unrelated to the charges.
David
I need to send an award plaque for "Outing OPDC"…..when you get your facts straight I will send you one.
When will you ever get it right. I never bottled a drop of milk from any place other than OPDC….yes I bought fresh life saving organic colostrum from Case prior to his organic dairy closing…that is it. You know this…this was never a secret. No secrets ever. So what did you out….nothing.
Your negativity is gross. It builds nothing.
One more thing,
"Put raw milk in my glass….the FDA can kiss my ass!" Will get recorded at the rally.
Amanda do something important for once, come sing with us. For all your bitching and moaning, you have done nothing with the pile of CDFA milk pool records I sent you. Nada. What is up? You nearly had a heart attack to get the data and now that you discover that I was telling the truth, you ignore the proof of my integrity.
Pathetic.
Please come do something purposeful and unify with us and create some good news for raw milk.
That would make sense. Anyone committing fraud, should be held accountable.
I am confused on what exactly this rally is for? Is it to show support for the 3 arrested? Or support for the other farmers and the consumers who were affected? Or is this about the draconian methods used by tptb against all small farmers? Or "to support the right to wholesome, nutrient rich foods & food products"?
Mark is going to do his spiel on raw milk and probably promote his rawmi. What is the rest of the rally about?
Mr. Gumpert,
Strange words from someone who lives on the East Coast written to someone who lives in So. California and has dealt first hand with the business practices of Sharon Palmer, Victoria Block, and Mark McAfee.
From the South Pasadena Patch:
"The DA alleges Healthy Family Farms bought thousands of dollars worth of meat, poultry and eggs from other vendors and resold it at area farmers markets. Invoices and records seized in a search of Palmer's Healthy Family Farms location in Santa Paula revealed that "she was buying thousands of dollars worth of meat, poultry and eggs from other vendors and reselling it at farmer's markets and at Rawesome, despite claims and advertising that it was raised on her farm and not fed commercial feed," according to court documents."
http://southpasadena.patch.com/articles/update-farmers-market-vendor-sharon-palmers-arraignment-postponed
——————-
This was written Kristen Lepore who lives in Pasadena. The official complaint that you are referring to may not list all the charges, but that was the complaint filed in LA county. What is is reported in the Pasadena Patch is what the DA is claiming, and is among evidence seized in the raid. Also, there are separate charges filed against Palmer in Ventura County, some all the way back to 2008 which are still not settled:
"According to Ventura County Superior Court records, Palmer is scheduled to stand trial in Ventura on Jan. 18 on 16 misdemeanor charges. They include four counts of failure to file an application for a permit, four counts of unlawful conversion of a structure, and one count of making false or misleading statements."
Source: http://www.vcstar.com/news/2011/aug/04/santa-paula-farmer-to-be-arraigned-for-selling/
—————
If you want to stand up and defend these people, and attack those of us who actually live in California and are trying to look out for our families and other consumers by this kind of fraud, I guess that is your right. But to say "I know nothing" of these matters while sitting there behind your computer on the East Coast is totally inaccurate. I know a LOT more about this case (and much of it I am NOT revealing here) then you do.
If I lived in CA I would gladly attend the rally. As for the charges against Sharon Palmer, I absolutely do not trust the government on issues like this. After reading article after article about how they are perpetually in the pocket of Big Ag and Big Pharma, it's time we stand up and say NO MORE!!!!!!
As I posted before, the Medusa of Big A & P WANT people sick so they can make a profit. I'm tired of their lies, and it should stop immediately.
I also object to their heavy-handed approach on Rawsome. Was it really necessary to treat it as if they were busting a crack house?
I think it's sad there are people like you Amanda, duck and cover from the government instead of taking a civil disobedience stance. It's time for us to speak, and to tell our officials that their actions are unacceptable.
MW
It to "educate, educate, educate" and promote the sales of Organic Pastures raw milk from "100% grass-fed cows."
I would like to speak with you both privately. If you are willing, please send me an email at drinkrawmilk@gmail.com
Looking forward to hearing from you!
Max Kane
As usual, you have enlightened me and inspired me and left me thinking about all these things.
And now, ever since last Wednesday when the "guilty on 15 of 19 counts" verdict came down on Michael Schmidt something has been stirring in me that says I must do something more than read blogs, sign petitions and rant on my patrons at farmers markets about this WAR being waged upon us. Yes, its time for some pushback.
Michael began his hunger strike on Thursday, and wrote:
"This hunger strike is as much about unlabeled GMO food, forced vaccination, fluoridation and the loss of natural remedies as it is about raw milk. It is about our individual rights which we have allowed to be eroded and allowed to be taken away by power hungry entities." http://thebovine.wordpress.com/2011/10/02/raw-milk-farmer-michael-schmidt-talks-about-why-hes-going-on-a-hunger-strike/
I suggest we ALL JOIN IN – let's raise our hands high in Solidarity with Michael and Max and Vernon and every farmer, gardener, cheese-maker, etc. who has been intimidated, harassed, shut down, bullied, lied to, jailed, and so on by UN-elected bureau-craps and cop wanna-bes.
Because Michael began his hunger strike last Thursday, I hereby publicly pledge that from this day forward I will fast for the day, every Thursday, until the Tectonic plates shift and Michael ends his protest. Period.
No, this is not the same as going on a real hunger strike, I'm not that brave. It's a token act, but an ACTion just the same. What if many many of us did every Thursday? Would restaurants began to feel the pinch of all those empty seats every Thursday? What if grocery store aisles were abandoned every Thursday, and so on and so on? What if we wrote letters to the editors of all of our local newspapers about our Fasting For Food Freedom Thursdays with a list of co-signers? What if somebody starts a blog or facebook page where everyone fasting on Thursday signed on? What if our friends, families, neighbors and co-workers noticed we fasted on Thursday and it began to stimulate more thinking about our food systems on their parts? What if ……. ?
We CAN DO this – it takes no time at all and doesn't cost a dime, but it WILL make the point, and the more that do, the bigger the point!
Please join me in my small token act of solidarity with MIchael, Max, Vernon and others as we re-assert our unalienable and indefeasible constitutional right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
It's way too easy to sit on the sidelines and carp about this one (Sharon Palmer may have committed fraud, so I won't support her or anyone she might have worked with) or that one (Mark McAfee may be interested in promoting his business, so I won't support his advocacy of raw milk).
But all this waiting and carping from the sidelines does nothing except distract everyone else while trying to answer questions that can be asked later. What seems important really, really important right now is to get out on the streets, online, on the airwaves, in the store aisles, wherever, and make sure that we continue to have access to good food.
To wait for confirmation of purity before we defend, is to risk the wholesale forfeit of all our rights.
On a side issue, since when is an accusation of wrongdoing by a government agency particularly an agricultural agency an indictment, anyway? Aren't those agencies the ones we tend to be suspicious of?
I've read the complaint against the Rawesome trio, and David is absolutely right: no mention of any issues other than those relating to dairy, labeling, and the like. The idea that Palmer was selling food from a source other than the farm was in a completely different document, the motion to withhold bail (and which the Pasadena Patch didn't "research", they just quoted from the same PDF that the DA's office is willing to send to anyone who asks, that's how I got it). And even in that document it didn't state that Palmer WAS doing this, just that there was a suspicion about it. That doesn't tell me much, just that the DA's office wants us to indict Palmer before the trial. Guess it's working for some of us.
merry dairy
I thought his/her words were pathetic indeed. As said numerous times on this blog…no one is NOT concerned with sanitation. To say otherwise only makes mw appear the instigator of trouble and lose any credibility.
Sharon Palmer is such a small issue is the grand scheme. Yet, if she is guilty of wrong doing, she surely is not the biggest by far. She is small potatoes, especially in comparison to all the other fraud, contamination and "mislabeling" .
I suppose if I was at that rally, I would carry a sign stating my beliefs and what I felt the govt was doing to oppress the population. I would point out the irregularities of tptb, I would point out, with photos of the unsanitary conditions of the cafos, the contamination of produce, even the govts allowance of "organic" and how for example, "organic" strawberries may have been sprayed before the production of fruit on the plant and they can still be considered "organic" etc….
Being at the rally doesn't mean a person has to agree with every little issue of the attendees.
Remember me? I'm the mom who kissed you on camera. I remember you telling anyone who would listen about that the "Rawesome 3" were MARTYRS. My son had a bib that said, "I drink two kinds of raw milk!" My son no longer drinks your raw milk but drinks Strauss, thanks to what I have learned here on this blog about your milk. I still do, as I buy it from DeyDey's Best Beef Ever and sell your milk for him at Sunday MarVista. Demand for you milk is HIGH! See, it's not all black or white, for or against us.
I did not trust my WAPF-LA co-chapter leadership when they told me to not to listen to the negative "allegations" about Healthy Family Farms products. Victoria was one of their market managers, no? AnnMarie is Cheeseslave and she took Victoria's word for it too. Oh yeah, and they both know the farmer and have visited her farm. Victoria knows more than she is willing to tell, or she is blinded by optimism.
How do I know this? I AM seeking the truth! I am not hiding and whispering. I am pissed off that local WAPF leaderhip failed me and STILL recommends HFF. Not Victoria outright, because she is embroiled in the court case. But she is still our chapter leader and her co-chapter leaders are advocating us to buy from and support HFF. I am pissed that national WAPF is so silent, and indeed had a national conference call with their chapter leaders on this case to discuss I don't know what. WAPF still wants me to support FTCLDF so they can defend these "Rawesome 3". Give me a break.
I am pissed off that FM managers have let this person sell in their markets after all the allegations came out last year.
I am finding the truth. Everyday just a little bit more. One of these days when I feel confident that I have enough evidence, it will be shared with all who care to hear it.
Call me too wrapped up in the details to see the big picture. Fine. I honestly don't care that much about raw milk politics because RAW MILK IS LEGAL IN CA. I can also get raw milk from several other sources than Claravale or OP. If you look around, you can find it, just like cocaine.
I see the big picture and for me it is this: Farmer's markets have grown by the hundreds over the past ten years in CA. Farmers and Marketeers see the people handing over their cash in droves at the markets. The opportunists and sociopaths see this as a free market to expoit. What's to stop them? Inadequate fraud investigation by the broke CA gov't or busy market managers?
Oh, and this is about Rawesome and Real Food Rights, right? It is to be seen how much Stewart was in collusion with Palmer. Perhaps we'll never know, since he kept minimal records and used customer checks to pay his suppliers.
I for one live in LA and will not be going to the Rally. I will NOT spend another minute of my time supporting any of the "3". I am sure Sharon Palmer considers herself a martyr. I don't.
If you are interested in following along with what I find out, you can read here: farmmuckraker.blogspot.com.
Best,
Kristen
I would sincerely appreciate a call to discuss what it was that caused you to be concerned about OPDC raw milk. What was it that you learned that caused you to feed your child Straus Organic Pastuerized milk and not Claravale or OPDC raw milk. Would love to know.
If you do not want to talk, then please email me at http://www.mark@organicpastures.com
I am 100% responsive to my customer and I want to learn from you.
Loved the kiss I still feel it on my cheek.
All the best,
Mark
I would like to speak with you, too, if you don't mind?
My email is attached with my profile here.
Thanks,
Kristen
There are the Freedom Purists
The Foodies
Nutritional Civil Rights Objectors
The farmers that just want to feed their consumers
What a plethera of voices. Some are ardently passionate about this being purely a Freedom Issue and nothing else.
In America, just as we have 50 different states with 50 different microcasms of raw milk laws and raw milk realities, there are many voices that bring us all together, each driven by their own experiences and degree of passion and pissed offness.
The trick to making progress on freedom and access to whole unprocessed foods ( the two issues are completely linked ) will be to harness all of the passion and energy into some assemblance of common focus and clear direction.
I would argue that unless we use our energy to teach others, we will not make much progress. Screaming Freedom does not get yiou freedom. It gets you marginalized and maced and jailed. Screaming freedom from inside jail is fruitless. It may be martyring,….but it is fruitless.
Now, how about this. Try screaming freedom and at the same time sending a message of why you need your freedom. Why pasteurized milk is toxic and lsited by the FDA itself as the most allergenic food in America. Try screaming that pasteurized milk is not digestible and causes gas and diarrhea.
Now we can make progress.
Remember that Brave Heart died on a table while having his GUTS ripped-out as he screamed freedom and no one did anything. Now, if he had done a better job of teaching the common people about why they needed freedom perhaps they would have fought for a cause worth dying for.
I am criticized for market building. In the end, a huge market will change the laws and change the reputation for raw milk. Markets change reality. Screaming Freedom does not.
I love freedom and I will fight for freedom better than anyone. But….I know that the best revenge is a raw milk market that is safe and strong and bringing on hundreds or thousands of additional farmers nationally that are also successful. This will then usher in a new world of healthy consumers and the next generation of healthy children. Lives will be changed, farmers will thrive, jobs will be created….
Scream freedom…I will scream it with you. But in the same breath say words that also teach. Freedom is a hollow rage. We lost our freedom years ago. We must win it back and that is a teaching and educational challenge, teach the press, teach your neighbor, teach your fellow farmer. Those are the steps to freedom. There are great forces amassed against us to deny us our freedom. Those forces are not our government, they have a face and a name, Deans Foods, Monstano, Tyson, Cargill, Land-o-Lakes…those are the processors that want to keep their ( our and our nutrition ) money and market share. Those are the forces that ally with the FDA….they are the FDA ( Food Inc revolving door ).
So the next time you want to passionately scream freedom, please scream it loud. But also say something that will teach someone. The markets changing is the paradigm shift. That is what will take out the FOOD INC giants that feast on our ignorance and compliance.
Teaching teaching teaching…that is what has made Pennsylvania and California dangerous to FOOD INC and examples for America to follow.
True Freedom + Teaching= Market Building= Strength & Power= Change= Food Inc Funeral.
Screaming Freedom ( and nothing else ) =Marginalized Fringe Opposition Group=No Power= No Change
Mark
Day 27 Hospital
This was a happy day for the Herzog family. Lauren was being released from the hospital. Her kidneys were working well enough to be sent home, but they still had to monitor her high blood pressure outpatient. Little did they know she would soon be back.
Chris blood pressure and a kidney counts looked good today. There would be no dialysis. They had yet to use the new Quinton catheter. Murphys Law: make a decision to place a more permanent dialysis catheter and then the kidneys will begin working.
It was great news about his kidneys, but frustrating that an extra day on the ventilator and stress and worry about the placement of the catheter had to take place. Unfortunately for Chris, there was more tape to deal with. When he came out of surgery, the whole front of his body was covered with tape that looked like saran wrap. I panicked. There was no way Chris was going to wake up covered in tape. This definitely wouldnt be good for his stress levels. So, prior to taking him off the ventilator, the day nurse was able to get permission to reduce the size of the tape to just cover the catheter.
A new regimen of rotating Chris on methadone and Ativan began. He had been on high doses of opiates for some time. They couldnt just stop cold turkey.
They also started a water challenge again. He was able to take small sips and keep it down. The bump in the road appeared to be behind us and Chris was slowly moving forward in his recovery.
Mark, this divisiveness is beneath you.
An ant colony speaks with one voice. Free men and women will always disagree.
In my opinion, the most effective defenses and offenses in the name of both liberty and progress — which are too often framed as opposing forces by those who seek to control wealth/resources, including human beings — are both infinitely varied, and strike the root rather than addressing symptoms of the real underlying problem.
Unity….
You are right!!!
One conversation is saying, how can you possibly support people who have been accused of having done something unsavory?
The other conversation is saying, there is an issue bigger than any one set of players, so let's support the ones in front of us even if they're accused of having done something unsavory!
The people engaged in that first conversation seem more attached to the need to be right than to the need to be proactive. They also seem to be only too willing to accuse anyone wanting to overlook the possible fault of being unclean themselves which keeps them in the right, but doesn't have a prayer of moving the conversation forward.
What is it with you guys? Did you used to be idealists about farms and farming, but turned into cynics along the way? Is it the bitterness of disappointment? This stuff is hard, and doesn't look like it's gonna get any easier. Are you going to wait for the right rallying point to come along, the right advocate to carry the cause forward, the right hero? Because I'm not sure that perfect team exists. If you look into it, I'm sure you can find something wrong with almost any of the farmers who've been raided across the country. But you could spend that time helping to make a difference instead!
I'll be voting for the farmers, and supporting them by rallying for them when they're in trouble, and sending money to WAPF and Farm to Consumer and Slow Food and any other group that supports them. I'll be keeping in mind that people in this country are innocent until proven guilty (except perhaps in the mind and actions of those government thugs, as David calls them). If Palmer is found to have been dishonest, I'll be sorry. But I'll still be glad that I stood up for the real issues, and didn't get caught up in the pettiness of rumor, aspersion, and gossip. And I'll be glad to (metaphorically speaking) stand up with Mark to do it, too!
What I would really feel bad about would be having failed to take whatever action I could to move the cause of food freedom forward not for having supported someone who might (emphasis on "might") turn out not to be lily white. (And no, the dirty laundry doesn't need to be cleaned before moving on that's why the accusations are called "charges," because they're not yet proven. Again, waiting just leads to inaction, which leads to nothing.)
"We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately."
"What for?" He pulled her soft Yi, inexplicable.
"Do you drink?" She gently asked.
"Ha ha —" burst of laughter that burst month scared, quickly covered his lips, "we all lie in it!" He thought confused well known it?
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A man standing outside, not cold?" He asked thoughtful.
Waiting for you, you know? Month and shook his head and sighed, "can not sleep, thinking about things!"
"If you want anything, can you tell me?" Yelu Stern whisper in her ear. They are the mutual understanding it. Not only physical contact, he did not want to repeat the same mistakes.
"Not yet." Month and again shook his head, a thought suddenly flashed, "Yelu grind, you know, LI Yu-Xiao GATT Where is it?"
Heard the remark, Yelu grind suddenly face, arms and tighten her body, "Li Yuquan, you know him, said, What is the relationship you and him?" Is she the palace is the shadow people, shadow palace has long been Yelu eradicate hatred, in addition to owners and LI Yu-door, and the rest of the slaves for the slaves, kill kill, how she would bring LI Yu.
"Never mind, you are hurting me." Month struggle.
He relaxed a little more, pour half the day reading her "bell before death is entrusted to you?" She forget the old lover.
Month and nodded, then shook his head, "No, tell me a small silver, Mo has been a girl who love you, believe me, she really loves you."
Yelu grind Let her go, sinking into the red plum before the half, thoughtfully, "if she loves me, not that leave me —-"
"Have not love, but also remembered the other across time and space, who are still afraid of death?" Perhaps this is the reason she could not bear him.
Yelu grind and fell down a deep watching the woman, lifted her chin, "are not allowed to mention that after the man, understand?"
"I'm not Mo bell, you eat the wrong object of taste, right?" Month with black face ridicule the man.
"Do not challenge the patience of the king, otherwise you can not afford the consequences!" He threatened in her ear.
Micro-month squat body, "is to remember the slaves." Yubi, turned around to return to room.
"Ah — What are you doing?" Yelu Stern pulled her without warning, lifted her, out of the backyard.
"Two months gone, you seem so fat.. <a href="http://www.authenticjerseysonsales.com/"> nfl jerseys authentic </a>" He went to his other homes.
"Yes ah, what a palace north of privileges hospital slaves, slaves live here, eat well, live well, not fat just forgive miles!" Monthly snappily.
"I am sarcastic, right?" He went into the house, put her in a kang bed. Month and suddenly felt a warmth hit.
Four weeks looked carefully crafted mahogany furniture, made of a variety of animals, fur accessories, all show the majesty and wealth Yelu grind.
Saying, "you have to do?" Looked down at his monthly solution buttoned her hand.
"The king's food to see North School is not really as you say?" Evil Yelu grind mouth pursed smile. A probe into his hands under her clothes.
"You want me?" Month that he was still alive, she mentioned LI Yu gas.
"You do not want me?" The first two she did not resist him? Even the best are the natural way to present in front of him.
"I'm not a person in your heart, and —" monthly hesitantly.
"And what?"
"And I've got drunk?" Monthly hanging eye.
"Ha ha —" Yelu grind shed hearty laughter. Two months gone, this woman also as before, honest, direct.
"Do not —" monthly pushed his body pressed down, resist the.
"I was not only drunk, you will obey me?" Yelu grind her dissatisfaction with the behavior.
"No, I —" In fact, she was in the end she did not know how to fit in him.
"Well?" Receded Yelu grind their own self-care clothing. Month shy harder and harder quickly, turned his body, crawling around lips, "Yelu grind, in your heart, I am a prostitute = female?" She wanted to know how he look at her.
He climbed Kangchuang tightly around her from behind, inseparable, "If you are prostitutes = female, then what am I? <a href="http://www.stitchedjerseyswholesale.com/">Stitched nfl jerseys </a> Clients it? Belittle your own is an insult to me, and later allowed to say the word, understand? not like the king! "
Month and turn the bass's sound body, fierce, severe nose two collide, "Ah, it hurts —"
She smiled and rubbed his nose, everything is so natural.
"Fool, you should not rub yourself?" He pulled her hand caress his lips, this woman actually guarding him in the first after the injury.
"I do not hurt!" She really does not hurt a bit, staring at his lips quite a while, and then —-" you do? "He went up to escape her lips, opened a little distance.
"Kiss you ah?" She said sweetly.
"No!" Yelu grind some dissatisfaction, his face full of panic.
Month Dengqi Meimou, know for so long, when he was only in the Huang Shilin kissed her, then no matter how much he needs her, will not touch her lips.
Does he despise her? She is clean, ah!
"Why? Why do you never kiss me?" Asked the month and frankly.
"Nothing! Not used to it, probably!" Yelu grind to hug her in the chest, do not want her to see through his mind.
Habits? So that he will eventually be used to Mo who is bell.
"Yelu grind, if you really want her, I think I can help you!" Mo bell said, she and her have the opportunity to meet twice, she went to ask her, she loves Yelu grind so deep, will be agreed . Mo bell just when will come?
The Weston Price Foundation comes on the scene and gets everyone excited about raw milk.
Oh, but, it's not legal.
So Farm To Consumer comes in and tells everyone to set up these farmshares, only their legal advice doesn't hold up in court, and many farmers end up in hot water, and get "martyred" on blogs like this (except our wrath should be directed at Farm To Consumer's incompetence, but please call your elected official and send them money).
So to solve that problem RAWMI comes on the scene to attempt to legitimize raw milk through standards and the legislative process; however, the standards are being written to fit into S510 and Codex Alimentarius (which your state government takes money from the feds to implement under "cooperative agreements"), and which will further the consolidation of the food supply.
When we dissent, we get attacked by McAfee for not being "team players".
That's how it works.
The enemy of raw milk is not "out there". It's right here on this website.
I had never heard of Weston Price until I came to this blog. I looked over the web site, there was some things I agreed with and some I didn't. I haven't been to the site in years.
I glance over Farm to Consumer's emails when I get them and I may hit on a link from the email to further read something of interest or not.
I had to google Slow Food, didn't know what it was. They appear to be promoting gardening, healthy eating, etc. http://www.slowfoodusa.org/index.php/about_us/details/staff_bios/
RAWMI- It sounds like something that would offer information to the masses. Yet, Marks words put forth the mantra of you are either with us or against us and if you are not with us, you don't care blaa blaa…. A total turn off. Mark, your skills of promoting your entity suck.
I believe everyone agrees to teaching and everyone agrees to sanitary conditions…..You push a "standardization" of some kind, yet I haven't seen what it entails. Is it basic things farmers should be doing already? Like cleaning equipment, etc? And again your words have been to the affect that if farmers don't conform to your way, they don't care about sanitation….
The above are such a tiny part of the raw milk movement. None are the be all of the movement.
Did Sharon et al break the law and lie about things? I don't know. She does have a dubious history. If she did lie to the consumers, I cannot see her becoming a martyr, as then the only thing she would have sacrificed would be her integrity and hopefully her own freedom.
Of those who do go to the rally, who says they have to be there to only support the Rawsome 3…. There is so much more to promote then them. Signs and words would show that. Getting in the presses face would do that. You Tube would do that.
The internet has shown and possibly promoted the Wall St protesters to spread out across the nation.
Showing that you are concerned with the allegations and the potential for ousting other potential frauds,etc would be beneficial to the movement. Let the world know you won't comply with fraud, etc. Word of mouth spreads like wildfire. So speaking up at the rally would be a positive thing at the rally. To sit back and say nothing may show compliance.
If it stays divided, it will fail.
First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out —
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out —
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out —
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me — and there was no one left to speak for me.
(Niemller)
I used to run around and catch the kids, putting them in a separate area of the shed with some fresh hay and a little grain until I discovered swing gates. I purchased a two foot swing gate which I position in the doorway to a separate part of the shed. After two or three weeks, the does are ready for a little alone time. It's easy to walk in from the other side, conspicuously pour a little grain in the trough, then stand just inside the area and operate the gate until you get all the desired does in. After a while, no one else even tries getting in. It's a lot easier on my back that catching those kids with meat goat genes in them! They heft up pretty quick.
And yes, I do use grain for a treat. It doesn't take much. A friend of mind can call her bucks all the way over the mountain just to chow down on a pretzel stick!
You got it right!! You rock.
I do not udnerstand why people can not read my comments and my words and see the intent of building something good. Why is there always some negative critical crap that comes out as a result of my bests attempts at unifying and clarifying.
Lets all face it. When you stand up and say something with content, you have taken a stand. You are measured and you are stoned.
I say….that is what it takes to unify part of the movement then so be it. There is no such thing as herding this bunch of chickens…they will not be herded or led any where. There are so many different voices and different agendas.
I see things simple….
I want more raw milk in America. I want it safe, grass or pasture based if possible, delicious, from farmers that are connected to their consumers, and I want Raw milk to earn a reputation of safety, and I want us all to earn the right to change the laws so all Americans can access safe raw milk. Simple as that.
I say this, because "some raw milk has earned a reputation for all raw milk". We must divide raw milks into their proper categories and measure them for how they are intended to be used….for pasteurization or for human grade raw consumption.
If we intend to teach and build markets, we better teach and build markets. That is done when the media is available and the microphones are hot.
We must see a rally as an opportunity to teach and use the media to further our cause. The Rawesome Three were jailed because the sold raw milk…bottom line. They are non conformist and the government does not like non conformists.
We must use this opportunity to teach….criminal charges do not really matter in the greater context at all. What matters is the sounds bites that are broadcast to the people. Teaching matters.
Use words of unity and teach. You want to talk about criminal….lets talk about Monsanto and the FDA. Lets have a real discussion about crimes against humanity. The Rawesome Three may have not been perfect…I really do not care. I care about the greater good and teaching the media our message.
Mark: "I am sick of the observers being critical of rally's, critical of unity. " "t is also certain that the volentary nature of RAWMI and the goal of RAWMI will not be embraced by all farmers. We expect that. We only invite those that embrace the mission to join in this mission. " "I have no respect for those that call themselves freedom fighters when all they truly act like is a Marijuana grower ( in all of its meaning ). "
Me: The above words and many more that you have posted on this blog alone, have divided many. You exclude those who don't share ALL of your beliefs. That is not an efficient way to welcome anyone to look at or listen to what you have to say. you have labeled those who don't share all your views as unAmerican, cowards, etc. (Your words)
I doubt anyone has any problems with you doing good things, you have to expect and RESPECT that others won't share your views on everything.
Mark: "There is no such thing as herding this bunch of chickens…they will not be herded or led any where. There are so many different voices and different agendas. "
Me: Chickens? No one should be LED anywhere, you wouldn't want followers, you would want people to walk BESIDE you. If they were followers, then they will eventually follow someone else. Strength and stability.
Mark: "I must concur with Amanda about the fraud charges and cheating of customers. This is a true crime and I do not support anyone that would buy conventional meats and repackage them to make a profit with a new label that made sustainable claims."
Me: This is something I could easily agree with.
Mark: I am going to the Rally in LA because we are trying to seize the day to teach the media about the benefits of raw milk. The Rawesome Three will need to defend themselves with regards to the choices that they made….they are innocent until then. "
Me: Again an agreeable statement.
Mark: "Try screaming freedom and at the same time sending a message of why you need your freedom. "
Me: I would expect those that scream freedom also are spewing out their reasons for screaming freedom. They aren't riding a horse up and down a line of people screaming the word only.
Keep in mind that everyone fights their battles in their own way, just because it isn't your way, does not make their way wrong.
Mark: "Unity…. You are right!!! "
Me: yes, very important
On this blog, Mark has a history of alluding to and out right saying words that alienate those who don't believe in everything he does. He has (along with others) engaged in name calling and be-little those who oppose him.
Please don't misunderstand what I am saying. I do believe that RAWMI has potential for assisting many people, consumers and farmers. He has alluded on this blog that if farmers don't do things RAWMIs way they will in a sense be blackballed.
I know Mark goes out and has assisted numerous cowshares, especially those who have come under attack. That is commendable.
Rawmi would be more successful if it was opened to all for assistance in teaching. Excluding anyone only furthers the divide. I do understand the need for $$ for the entity to grow etc…. as a start up, dividing those it wants to recruit only weakens it.
Why should they pay money to an entity and why should they change what they are doing when they have had no issues. Ive no doubt that most are willing to listen to what Mark or other teachers have to say. If the farmer chooses not to change their way…will they be verbally assaulted as some on this blog have been?
Rawmi is suppose to push for "standards". What exactly are those standards? Will they be obtainable to all dairy farmers of all sizes? If I have 1-10 cow heardshare will those standards cost me money? Will they put me out of business? Why would I want to be regulated by an entity I have no faith nor trust in (govt)? There are many unanswered questions. Many have reason not to trust.
To be effective, I would expect rawmi to benefit all, even those who don't wish to join, just think, at some point in the future, they may change their mind and join. Burning bridges is never a wise thing to do.
When he says words to the affect that you are either with us or you are against us… if you don't do it his way then you don't care…..That only serves to divide people further.
Thank you and highest karma points to you also. Positive beats negative and unity beats dividedness, just like good bugs beat bad bugs, Pastures beat CAFO's, health beats illness, peace beats war, and hugs beat hatred.
Warmest to you!!
The government's ability and willingness to shut down family farms should have everyone upset. Farming is an American tradition, and our founders regarded it highly. If they knew what was happening to small family farms, they'd roll in their graves. I cannot understand why people like Amanda Rose and RawMilk Advocate so quickly buy into the news articles suggesting that Sharon Palmer was selling conventional meats with an organic label. Where's the proof that this occurred? How do you know the journalist/news organization is not biased against raw living foods? I see this all the time in the national media regarding nutritional supplements. I think that says a lot about the both of them, and makes me wonder whether or not they really do support family farms….whether those farms produce raw milk or just simple vegetables.
That's my two cents….and I"m stickin' to it!
Day 28 Hospital
It was official! Chris would no longer need dialysis. His pancreas now became the major concern. We were moved back to the 5800 step down PICU. Six days had passed since he had his seizure in this unit.
The central line was finally removed from Chris. It had been placed on September 11th, so it wasnt looking so good. These are not meant for long term use. We are very fortunate he never developed an infection. They initially wanted to place a PICC line, but Chris had been through so much, they decided to use the Quinton catheter for everythingblood draws, TPN, and medications. Nephrology gave their blessing to use it. It is not the typical use for this catheter, but it can be done.
We were still dealing with Chris high blood pressure. They decided to give him a small continual dose of two different blood pressure medications instead of waiting for his blood pressure to spike. Hopefully, this helps keep him stable.
Chris continued to take small sips of water and was able to keep it down. All was well until it was tape removal time. Since they were weaning him off the opiates, they wanted to see what would happen if the tape was removed without using a pain medication. It was not pleasant. The pain and anxiety made him vomit. Watching Chris suffer never got easier.
Mark has said many things that are inflammatory against farmers. I would expect that all the dairy farmers have invested heavily in their farms.
He has thick skin and can take it, I think he even has said so.
As to Marks family being destitute should he end up in the slammer, is highly unlikely. He is smart enough to make sure his family is well cared for should something happen to him. He has inherited genes for standing up for what he believes….. His dairy makes a lot of money, more so than the average raw dairy farmer. http://www.manta.com/g/mmj9n32/mark-mc-afee
Mark is not a stupid man,,stubborn, pigheaded, loud, passionate- yes, stupid no. His family is #1 important to him and he would make sure they are cared for.
Dumb questions? I ask framers I buy from all sorts of questions, don't you? I want to know what they use on the produce, what fertilizer, what the meats I buy are fed, how they are raised, etc. Since Mark names his cows, he probably talks to them too, many farmers do.
Envy? I doubt it. What everyone has to say is important, even that which isn't agreed with. It is your choice to respond or ignore. I do believe that both RMA and Amanda Rose do support family farms and raw milk.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44701485/ns/health-food_safety/#.Tos62rK2bCU
Tester ammendment be dammed!!!!
Mark McAfee . . . I am owed an apology . . .
They will never, ever . . . . let you sit at the table . . . . even with your RAWMI Institute
You were duped . . . and we all are if we listen to you . . . .
Stay local and small and fight them . . . this way though electing those that are for the small farmer . . . .Dem, Rep . . or even Independent . . .State and Federal . . . does not matter now . . .
That is how we need to fight this now . . . . Big Ag is scared . . . and they are now using the mainstream journalists to fight for them. . .
We are having our first annual "Open Farm Day" and "Local Harvest Festival" on the 15th of October . . . David will be our houseguest for that weekend . . . . Hope all like minded small farmers in New England and everywhere else will join us on that day as we are clebrating the small farmer and the local food movement our own way . . . .bring your RV and camp on our pastures . . . . this is a celebration of the local harvest and our local foodshed.
We need to get in the face of the federal government and stand up for what is right . . . . the small farmer is the only business that is now becoming successful in the US based on all of the BIG AG recalls over the last year . . . . . it is our time to shine and become a force . . . .
Kind regards,
Violet
http://www.kilbyridgefarmmaine.blogspot.com
You said…
I think in many ways it's unfair to criticize Mark for what he says
I am trying to understand why. First, some of us who are criticizing Mark do so because
1. We love him – I wouldn't bother posting if I didn't care deeply for Mark and know his potential for helping others… and I know from my dealings with him he has a heart as big as Texas…
2. We see him being blatantly inflammatory and inconsistent at times…
If Mark wants to speak on behalf of many, he needs to speak with consistency and clarity.
Since so many things he has said conflict with themselves, and because he has said many things that alienate many farmers and many people, we post because we see that if he were to stop, maybe close his lips a little for a bit and open his ears a bit more to listen, his energy, giftedness, passion, and the like would be that much more beneficial to the whole movement, and to himself. Some people attract detractors… but to some extent, Mark is creating detractors. He obviously attracts some, as what leader doesn't… but he would face far less criticism if he took some of the above counsel.
Mark puts himself out front to be a leader – if he wants to lead, he needs to have clear, coherent, consistent positions so that people can choose whether or not they want to follow. the only waffle we permit in my house are my wife's squash waffles;)
I think Mark's postings here make it clear that at the moment, his thinking lacks these things.
He could truly be the source of unity he claims he wants to be. He needs to hear that his tone, the way he frames thing is both inconsistent (aka, he contradicts himself) and divisive at times, so that hopefully he can learn why and learn what needs to change.
No one should get a free pass anywhere to be foolish, inconsistent, or needlessly divisive. My best friends are not the ones who sit around telling me, oh yeah, you are great, you are right… it is the ones who love me enough to tell me when I have or an erring, mistaken, and the like.
The former approach is how many movements, and this country as a whole, has partially gotten into the absolute ridiculous mess we now find ourselves in. No one ever earns a "free-ride" from being corrected, no matter how great their accomplishments or sacrifices. Always, it should be done with the person's good in mind and at heart.
Mark MacAfee is right to be concerned about the many small herdshares. During my time in California, the perceived hierarchy of raw milk flavor and richness in my experience and among people that I knew was herdshare milk at the top, then Claravale, and last Organic Pastures. Many Organic Pastures fans that I knew in CA bought it because they believed it was 100% grassfed. OP and Claravale fill an important niche by making raw milk widely available in natural food stores. Californians are very lucky to have that option.
Herdshares I have known have been very open about what they are feeding–whether it is organic or conventional, includes grain or is 100% grass and hay. Herdshares do not need to market–they typically have waiting lists. Herdshares do not outsource their milk. Herdshare milk often tastes fresher and sweeter and keeps longer than store-bought milk.
Farmers who are not honest about the sources of the foods they are selling, whether they are Mark MacAfee, Sharon Palmer or a hypothetical neighbor with 3 goats and a few dozen chickens, should be outed. Many thanks to Amanda Rose and Kristin Papac for being so courageous and persistent.
Among herdshare farmers as in all of life there are some who are activists and many who are not. Most are keeping their heads down and milking their much loved cows and goats, providing clean, nutritious and tasty milk. Some are enthusiastic WAPF members. Some are doing this just because they enjoy having their own high quality dairy products and selling a little milk helps support their animals.
It appears that Sally Fallon, Mark MacAfee, David Gumpert and the other very visible leaders of the raw milk movement have decided the direction of the movement should be unification and standardization under RAWMI. I believe that it is good to have hundreds of small herdshares independently continuing to do as they have been doing, rather than to try to shame and threaten them to gather together and come out in the open where they can easily be squashed.
The undercover mooshiners are guerilla fighters in this war, which is a war to preserve our rights to grow and eat the foods we choose.
It's pretty obvious that the millionaire raw milk dairy owner doesn't speak for a majority of those who have carried this movement up to this point (the farmers that are actually milking animals…).
Now Mark will have his supporters….his argument does appeal to some…but it is an argument that is based on what we lambast the authorities for….fear and lies. Raw milk isn't currently being produced by unscrupulous people (generally). Planting the seed of 'fear of your farmer' (because he's not part of my standards) is the lowest of lows…and this in of itself should eliminate Mark from any so called 'leadership' position in the movement. It goes know your farmer, know your food, not know your farmer, or else you might get sick.
I agree Mark is being duped….being used by the authorities… What keyed me into this was the statement that 'more cow shares in California will be busted next week….if we don't all come to the table ' This information being 'leaked' to Mark (and then by Mark) shows this clearly…especially when no other share operation has been served papers. I have a tremendous amount of respect for those in CA who see through the facade, maintain their distrust of the authorities (and Mark), and continue to provide what so many demand.
In regards to the rally….sure for those who want to. Amanda's point about an 'former' outsourcer defending a current outsourcer sure rings truth to me. While attention is something that would help the Rawesome 3, my take on this is that closer scrutiny of what was going on will not benefit the movement as a whole, and if proof comes out that Sharon was indeed repackaging crap food, it will set our movement back significantly. Sometimes media events get turned into circuses….
I want Mark to continue his writing. Exposing what he thinks is good for all to see…by his words we will know him. His true view regarding the small farmer is obvious, and he has stated it here before (although we don't see that flagrance anymore). The idea that his way is the only right way won't help him build consensus….and I hope that won't change…for if a large number of raw milk producers buy into his vision, and rawme is successful in opening the doors for 'supermarket shelf' producers…raw milk will have lost it's specialness, and will have become just another grocery to be plucked into the shopping cart. There are a large number of raw milk producers who don't share this 'future vision' for raw milk.
I think that our discussion of weaning, and Mark's response to it is also very very telling. That keeping a calf on it's momma 'won't work for him' seems on it's face to be reasonable….especially if the goal is profit. Taking a calf off a cow as soon as you can increases profitability…. more milk to sell, while the calf gets second rate (cheap) food to develop on. If the goal is more money, this is what you do…..if the goal is 'peak health' of your animals, then no amount of money will make you do this.
We wean completely after around 90 days….by that time the calf's rumen has developed enough for it to get enough out of solid fodder to thrive (this was related to me by a vet with a degree in rumenology). Up till then, depending on the season, some calves might be separated for part of the day…but every calf has access to mommas teat until three months…there is no substitute for mother's milk…not even other cow milk. Getting licked by it's mother, and having that interaction help Momma tailor it's milk specifically for the calf, is priceless, and the real first step in raising a quality animal. Next time you see Momma licking calf butt, know there is more going on there than just bestial hygiene or mindless coprophagy.
Separation is part of the reason that the general health of conventional dairy cattle is plummeting.
Mark, the next obvious question is what do you feed your calves? .Organic milk replacer?
Hugh…best of luck to you and yours….sometimes you can really find it on the road…and sometimes, going on the road helps you find it in your own backyard! Enjoy the scenery!
So Barney Google, Lola Granola, et al, if you watch this, do you still think Mark is a traitor, WAPF and FTCLDF is out to get us?
I challenge you to crack your world just for a little while. I don't agree that the sky is falling. It looks pretty blue to me. Albeit as uncertain as a baby's bottom (James Joyce) – we never had so, much opportunity….and now we're moaning about it? All that dropped was the curtain, and our pants are down. Time to dance!.
Go – Go to the rally and see what you can do.
-Blair
Whats wrong with that? The long noses of the health police out of joint?
This doesnt preclude Mark. Or Marler. I want freedom; Ill breathe freedoms air.
Anyone can see Marks industry and enthusiasm. Marks model of change has significant merit. What about non-farmer ignorance/fantasies? If a cow goes for some grain do I have to put a gun to its head and tell it to eat the grass or else? Two comments back (at this moment), milk farmers: Getting licked by it's mother, and having that interaction help Momma tailor it's milk specifically for the calf, is priceless, and the real first step in raising a quality animal. and other information pertaining to farm practices is vital to me, a non-farmer, so that I can make well-informed decisions. No vegetation can form a mineral for example. Nor can the animal eating the vegetation form a mineral. They both can only pass along minerals that are in the soil in the first place. If the soil lacks, then everything down-chain will lack. How interesting. How pertinent. So we could have all organic food in the best sense but if the soils were lacking then the all organic food lacks. What if the non-organic food was based on soil that wasnt lacking? And so forth.
But Barney Google (comment No. 46) explained how it works for merrydairy. So, of the several things going on, it is important to understand that anything built will conform to the foundation on which it is built. That is why the quiet, uninteresting, slow moving affairs that pertain to the foundation are to be attended to. They are determinative of everything that is built on top.
Mr. J. Ingvar Odegaard
All Ive ever asked of anyone here is to THINK about the direction this movement is being taken by the self-professed leaders and to decide if thats where we should be.
The work of WAPF, FTCLDF, and RAWMI will no doubt create consolidation in the raw milk industry; Barney laid out the footsteps of this path pretty clearly. It is your choice to trust without question, but you were forewarned.
We question our dentists use of mercury fillings; we question our doctors use of vaccinations; we question the FDAs insistence of dictating food choices; yet we cannot question the leadership of the raw milk movement, even though a series of e-mails were exposed proving they were consulting government and international policy (S510 and Codex) to form the standards, and that the most prominent leader, who also happens to be the head of RAWMI, has ties to the CIA?
We are fools if we dont.
"It is your choice to trust without question, "
As an American, it is your duty to question everything. The following could be said regarding anyone who wishes to become a leader.
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the president,
or that we are to stand by the president right or wrong, is
not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."
— Theodore Roosevelt
"…a series of e-mails were exposed proving they were consulting government and international policy (S510 and Codex) to form the standards, and that the most prominent leader, who also happens to be the head of RAWMI, has ties to the CIA?"
References, please?
Thank you,
Blair
But
Hes the largest raw milk producer in the country, which makes him politically and economically influential.
His farm has a multi-million dollar-per-year income, giving him the ability to hire employees for his farm so he can travel and create policy while the rest of us are too busy trying to make ends meet.
Hes the most vocal proponent of raw milk, creating demand where there was none before.
Andhes the most vocal proponent of National Standards.
Its well known that our government is involved in something called controlled opposition, where they hijack legitimate grassroots (dissenting) movements in order to steer them into the direction preferred by the government, in this case, into S510 and Codex.
Marks CIA connection could be nothing or could be everything. Id suggest we proceed with caution until we know for certain just which one it is.
The e-mails regarding Codex are in my first comment of page 3 of the comments section on this article:
http://www.thecompletepatient.com/journal/2010/12/22/key-lesson-in-judges-ruling-against-michael-hartmann-dont-go.html?currentPage=3#comments
I explain how the National Standards tie into S510 on page 5 of the comments section of the same article:
http://www.thecompletepatient.com/journal/2010/12/22/key-lesson-in-judges-ruling-against-michael-hartmann-dont-go.html?currentPage=5#comments
Please note at that time Mark denied any knowledge of the National Standards that Tim was writing. Months later, he came out and not only admitted knowledge of them, but that they would be incorporated into RAWMI.
Mark explains his CIA connection here, on top of page 2 of the comments section:
"Now that he is dead, I can say that he was also a double spy in 1969 in Isreal. He spied on Isreal and also Syria and reported the findings to the UN…."
http://www.thecompletepatient.com/journal/2011/3/27/wi-dairy-battle-should-an-industry-built-on-pasteurization-b.html?currentPage=2#comments