I’ve always thought that, if nothing else, lawyers are precise. You may not agree with their interpretations, but their legal briefs and reports are presumably linked strongly to real facts.
Of course, I’ tvehought the same about public health professionals as well. As we found out last week, Massachusetts public health officials were way off in asserting that there have been only three outbreaks involving pasteurized milk over the last thirty years.
Clearly, when it comes to raw milk, anything goes from some opponents. Now, we have what I would call misrepresentation about a legal case involving raw milk, from the lawyer representing the plaintiffs.
Food poisoning lawyer Bill Marler published an item on his blog today with this heading: “Farm-to-Consumer Legal Defense Fund Loses Bid to Keep Documents Secret in Raw Milk Litigation.” It goes on to talk about a judge’s decision in a Missouri case, asserting “the Farm-to-Consumer Legal Defense Fund tried to keep from the public documents it appears that it rather keep secret.”
Hmmm, I thought. I follow the FTCLDF’s cases, and I’ve never heard of a Missouri case in which it’s involved. Well, it turns out the FTCLDF hasn’t either.
So I called Bill Marler, and he explained that the whole thing relates to a case his firm filed against a Missouri raw dairy and a grocery store in connection with illnesses alleged to be from raw goat’s milk. It turns out, this is a significant case, according to the Marler firm, with two children having allegedly become serious ill with Hemolytic Uremic Syndrome.
A previous article on the case provides heart-rending descriptions of the allegedly serious illnesses of two of the children, and how they are at risk for life-threatening illnesses as they get older.
I don’t know about you, but when I read the Marler firm’s heading today, and the brief story, I understood that the FTCLDF was actively involved in the case (“tried to keep from the public documents…”), and had suffered a setback.
But that’s not the situation at all, the lawyer told me in a conversation today. The attorneys representing the grocery and the dairy his clients are suing have nothing to do with the FTCLDF. They simply argued in court that some documents emailed from the FTCLDF to the defendants before the case even launched (presumably simple bills of sale and boarding agreements, according to the FTCLDF), represented privileged information, protected from public scrutiny. Marler’s firm argued the documents should be available, and the judge agreed. The important thing is that FTCLDF didn’t make any arguments in the case, didn’t even know the arguments were being made.
Bill Marler told me he didn’t agree that the heading and article were misleading.
Am I missing something? If so, I’d like to know about it. But it seems to me you don’t have to be an English major to understand that the heading and article strongly suggest active involvement by FTCLDF in arguing about release of the documents. Why would the Marler firm want to suggest that?
I’m not sure. Maybe because he doesn’t like the FTCLDF and the fact that it does represent other raw dairies, and fights for freedom of food choice. If you listen to state and federal regulators, they view producers of raw dairy products as nothing less than scofflaws.
If nothing else, this situation suggests, once again, as if we need reminding, that the war over raw milk isn’t a war about public safety, but rather a war for hearts and minds. It’s a political war.
***
As Mark McAfee of Organic Pastures Dairy Co. points out in a comment following my previous post, the court suit against California officials over the coliform standard contained in AB 1735 isn’t dead yet. I had reported last month that the suit was being withdrawn because Claravale owner Ron Garthwaite had had enough. It seems the appeals court wants to consider whether to rule on the case. I guess as one-time Yankee catcher Yogi Berra says, “It ain’t over till it’s over.”
The Art of the Dark Side of the Raw Milk Political War is Deception to the benefit of Corporations being protected by Executive Branch Agencies.
That is clearly the definition of fascism….it does not matter how much lipstick you try and slap on that pig….it is still fascism. If the courts find that AB 1735 was and is unconstitional….CDFA will fall to their knees. We will have won one little piece of our country back. Eternal vigilence is then required… keeping one eye open at all times.
I am hopeful that there are islands of democracy still above water in this nation and on those islands we will create change. I am praying for an appeals judge with a moral center that is still grounded.
If CDFA wants a coliform standard that is fine….just hold the hearings and make the scientific arguments for all to see. No more ambushes. We must hold our executive branch agencies responsible…….no one else will!!
Being passive is a slipperly slope towards a country no longer free and certainly not inhabited by the brave. When the current paradigm does desparate crazy things to stay in power that is a great sign that things are changing….we are making a difference and progress is being made. I am booked solid for my Share the Secret ( raw milk ) presentations in CA. A law huge lawfirm in Sacramento has scheduled a presentation next month and want to have Raw Milk Explained to them. They want samples and Get Raw Milk Tee shirts. Things are on fire. Do not blink or hesitate. This is how the beginning of the Raw Milk Tipping Point feels. The big dairy lie that GOT covered up for 70 years by Got Dead Milk is now uncovered. People want to know what the hell happened and how they GOT duped causing them tremendous gas, diarrhea and abdominal pain.
Lactose Intolerance is Pastuerization Intolerance!! People are pissed and then over joyed to find that they are just fine…it was the damn processed fake dead food.
Interesting to note that the medical abreviation for Lactose Intolerance is " Lie " .
Fancy that!
Mark
FDA Violation of the Rule of Law by Johathan W Emord ESQ.
Very interesting read. If we do not know history we do not know where we have been nor do we know where we are being "taken" to!
then i contacted his law firm via email and informed him he was grossly mistaken in his post, suggesting he retract it, post a new one with the correct information, and make an apology to the farm-to-consumer legal defense fund. he returned my email and advised me to contact the defense counsel!!! i replied to him and basically asked "why should i do that? you posted the blog, not defense counsel."
he then replied via email and indicated that he has since removed the post and did so because david gumpert and i are "confused." amazing; not wiling to admit he made a mistake (or did he?).
he’s been advised to post another blog, retracting his erroneous post, stating the true facts of the case, and making a public apology to the farm-to-consumer legal defense fund. we’ll see if he fesses up to his erroneous ways.
should prove interesting.
Indeed. Methinks Marler is playing you guys.
When he had his staff author a faked up date stamped video of Chris Martin in an ICU bed days after I met with the Martins when Chris was recovering and not in ICU…this tells me everything I need to know about Mr. Marler. He is a champion of deception and winning wars.
He uses deception and power granted to the economically priveledged to smash his victums using any and all means possible. Winning is everything. He has the taste of blood money in his mouth and he loves it. When I challenged Marler about the faked video…he immediately hired a defense attorney in LA to grovel with me to drop my charges. I had no money to fight and he did…but he dropped the video and stopped telling lies for a short time.
That is Marlers strategy…ambush attack and then retreat having inflicted the damage. He does not even have the morals to say sorry after he drives a stake through you…accidentally. It is like shooting someone and then saying whoops that bullet was accidentally shot in your direction…..but no apologies are given. You still got shot and no one holds him accountable.
With Marler…there are no accidents. It is all intentional deception and all about winning his war fought his way. Winning is everything!!
Don…thank you so much for posting the Emord link. It is mandatory reading for all employes at OPDC starting tommorrow morning and I will post at our Website for all to read.
The heading will read " know thy enemy at our creamery door".
Now I know exactly why I hate the FDA with every ounce of my being. If you are a moral person…it is a moral obligation to hate the FDA. If you are conscious it would be unAmerican not to hate them. I do not use the word "hate" ever….
The FDA is highly Hatable and they earned it all themselves. They are killers in the name of greed and drug companies profits. I really like Emords recommendations to fix the problem.
Now who has the GUTS and GRIT to fight the Greatest Fascist Mafia every empowered?
God I love raw milk and Davids Blog. Let freedom ring!!!
In your face FDA!! Raw Milk heals and cures Asthma and rarely causes lactose intolerance like your NCIMS Got Dead Milk does.
So take that!!! My First Amendment is mine!!
Mark McAfee
I’ve been following The Ethicurean discussion, and am curious why you don’t respond to the many questions raised in this discussion thread. Do you fear going beyond David’s blog to a place where "know your farmer" means something?
http://www.ethicurean.com/2009/07/20/raw-milk-2/
"My attacks were not unfair. They were harsh and direct – and as youll notice Mark McAfee disappeared after being challenged. He seems to like making grandiose claims of fact about nutrition and microbiology, yet cant seem to grasp the issues involved or back up his claims. What is particularly scary is that McAfee seems to deny that pathogens get in the milk, yet simultaneously agrees that pathogens get in the milk and that this is good – that it acts as a vaccine against future infections. Couple that with a blame-the-victim mentality that any infections that occur are due to the weak immune systems of those victims. I would probably trust someone like McAfee to raise cows, but not to make judgements about the health of human beings.
Point of fact – OPDCs website states that no pathogens were ever found in the milk. But we know that campylobacter was found in their products. The slight-of-hand is that the campylobacter was found in the milkfat floating on the surface of the milk, but not the milk. Its still in the bottle, and would be all over the place is you shook it up (as youre supposed to), but OPDC misleads by making this distinction but not pointing out the distinction they are making."
Excerpt from Inoculated Mind on September 23rd, 2009 at 10:46 am
IMHO the real test of credibility will be to see if he admits being human; my bet is he will probably continue to speak with booming voice from behind the green curtain calling others "confused."
http://www.marlerblog.com/2009/09/articles/lawyer-oped/i-was-wrong-about-farmtoconsumer-legal-defense-fund-but-raw-milk-is-still-risky-business/
If memory serves, this MO case is one where the vendor told the customer that raw goat milk is as good as mother’s milk. I always wondered if this would be the case where Marler would sue WAPF. Maybe not. (See this article if you don’t know my reference: http://www.ethicurean.com/2009/07/20/raw-milk-2/ )
In any case, Marler is kicking off a four-part response to WAPF in that post that will include an analysis of the risk of raw versus pasteurized milk. It should be an interesting week.
On to the serious stuff. Marler’s series might be interesting, Amanda, but only if you like to read feeble papers like one of the first ones he cites, by one Oliver at the University of Tennessee (with several other co-authors). The 2009 Oliver paper purports to examine the risks in raw milk. However in doing so, the central part of the paper analyzes the pathogens found in the bulk tanks of a series of commercial dairies. No discernible attempt was made in the paper to analyze the bulk tanks of dairies which produce raw milk which is intended to be consumed without pasteurization. In other words, the Oliver paper simply stands for the common-sense proposition, that it’s pretty risky to drink the raw milk from farms where milk is intended to be pasteurized. Notwithstanding, the paper is interesting for other facts which they report, e.g. that about 60% of dairy farm families drink milk which they produce, and approximately 3% of the US population drinks raw milk. If the latter statistic is correct, this would imply something like 10 million people are drinking raw milk. Now that’s really interesting.
This "pig flu’ is no more dangerous than regular seasonal flu. The hype is amazing and for what reason? Just as tptb misrepresent/lie in regards to raw milk.
It is just more misrepresentation of facts. The majority of people don’t change.
A full accounting of pathogens at OPDC is on our website….including campylobacter found in one sample of cream with no associated illnesses. Repeat testing was negative for campylobacter. The milk samples taken separately ( from whole milk bottled and labeled for sale ) were negative for campylobacter. Cream and Milk are separate products and tested separately.
No sample of raw milk at OPDC has ever been found positive for a pathogen. That is an uncontested fact that CDFA will agree to support.
On to better news…"California Dairies"….a cooperative of CA milk producers has sent a letter to all of its hundreds of members warning of the huge interest in CA Raw Milk. I find it fascinating that 400 raw milk producing cows ( 65 at Claravale and 330 at OPDC ) has had any effect against the power of 1.9 million CA CAFO cows that produce GOT DEAD MILK. The letter goes on to describe the consumers of RAW MILK as IGNORANT. Our OPDC surveys show that a majority of our consumers are highly educated. There must be something very threatening that we have done to deserve this distinction and acclaimation. If I was California Dairies management I would immediately fire their marketing research firm….they have not done their market research or listened to real people. People that get severe diarrhea when they try to follow a movie stars pose and try to put on a DEAD MILK mustache. Perhaps we have exposed that Lactose Intolerance is actually Pastuerization Intolerance. Stanford will have the study and science to back this statement up in the spring when their raw milk study is published.
Pioneering is so much fun especially when the grass roots highly educated consumers love you.
Mark
Gary Cox states (referring to Bill Marler), Hes been advised to post another blog retracting his erroneous post, stating the true facts of the case, and making a public apology to the Farm-to-Consumer Legal Defense Fund. Well see if he fesses up to his erroneous ways.
The Steve Bemis states (referring to Bill Marler), IMHO the real test of credibility will be to see if he admits being human; my bet is he will probably continue to speak with booming voice from behind the green curtain calling others confused.
So Bill admitted he made a mistake. http://www.marlerblog.com/2009/09/articles/lawyer-oped/i-was-wrong-about-farmtoconsumer-legal-defense-fund-but-raw-milk-is-still-risky-business/
Now, will the king and queen of raw milk humble themselves and admit they have made a mistake. Gary and Steve, will you hold Mark McAfee and Sally Fallon to the same ethical standard that youve expected of Bill Marler?
Mark, I want to thank you for making it perfectly clear why you are so confused about the facts regarding Chris video and also clarifying for me why Sally Fallon is making the statements she does about my son and his illness. Everything she says comes straight from you mouth and then out of hers.
Lets see what youre made of Mark. Do you have the capacity to make a public apology to me for your misinformed statements? I like to refer to them as down right lies, but I realize why you believe them to be true. I also expect public apology from Sally.
Heres what you said, When he (Bill Marler) had his staff author a faked up date stamped video of Chris Martin in an ICU bed days after I met with the Martins when Chris was recovering and not in ICU…this tells me everything I need to know about Mr. Marler. He is a champion of deception and winning wars.
Heres what Sally said, Marlers story about the OP case is very different from Mark McAfees. Whom to believe? When Marler took this case, he posted a video on utube showing one of the children, Chris Martin, sick in a hospital bed and hooked up to a ventilator. The date on the video was close to the date when Mark McAfee visited the childthe child was sitting up in be, not on a ventilator and eating normal foodafter Mark notified Maler that the dates on the dialogue information on his video were incorrect, he took it down. Looks like Marlers staff made a phony video and took advantage of a child or his own aggrandizement.
Mark, Chris arrived at LLUCH at 9:00 p.m on September 14, 2006. He was in the PICU (5700 unit) until September 27th. For two days, he was moved to the 5800 wing (PICU step-down unit) He had a seizure on September 29th (the day of your rally) and was moved back to the 5700 unit for 6 more days (3 of those days he was on a ventilator again because they had to do all of these brain tests.). On October 4th he was moved to back to the 5800 unit. On October 14th he was moved to the 5200 unit (regular hospital care) and on October 20th he was moved back to Kaiser. He finally went home on November 2nd.
When you came to LLUCH for your visit, Lauren Herzog was in the 5800 unit. This is the step-down PICU. Once kids start recovering, they are moved from the 5700 unit to the 5800 unit. You visited Lauren in her room in the 5800 unit. She was not on a ventilator and by this time was eating food. This is who Sally Fallon is referring to in her statement. She has the stories of the two kids mixed up. You never visited Chris in person. You were able to visit Lauren because the person who gave her the raw milk got you in for a visit (Laurens fathers girlfriend).
I can envision you looking around the 5800 unit for Chris and not seeing him anywhere and coming to the conclusion that he had recovered. You were not in the PICU for severely ill kids. That is the 5700 unit, which happens to be a locked unit. Chris was in this unit when you came to visit. The 5800 is on one side of the waiting room and the 5700 unit is on the other side. I was sitting right out side this unit when you approached me in the hospital.
The video of Chris is accurate. Dates have not been doctored. Nothing has been altered. If you had taken the time to read David Gumpers posts, you would know this. http://www.thecompletepatient.com/journal/2008/8/29/how-i-erred-on-the-martin-tape-and-the-new-lessons-i-learned.html
Both David Gumpert and Bill Marler have the courage to admit when they have made an error. It is your and Sallys time to do the same. I expect a public apology from both of you.
I also expect Sally to take remove the lies she has about Chris on her website. Ive been asking for this for 2 years. Gary and Steve, can you help me out with this? You both have expectations for high moral standards. Bill took down his post because it was mistaken information, so I expect the same from Sally. http://www.realmilk.com/update-ca.html
Mary McGonigle-Martin
I am pretty certain that people from the raw milk movement like Mark McAfee and Sally Fallon will never admit to making a mistake. But, if they did, maybe I’d volunteer to drink from a jug of swill (outsourced) dairy raw milk from OPDC like Martin Sheen:
http://www.endlesssimmer.com/2008/09/16/martin-sheen-poisoning-your-babies-with-ass-milk/
Pablum would be interesting if what you’re watching is the signaling game. I can go read the primary articles myself if I want to delve into the content.
Amanda
there is no conclusive link to your sons illness and opdc. none, zero, nada.
you’re an opportunist who targeted opdc to sue so you could get some money.
since that’s all the facts that are really known why are you here? guilt? you need to keep repeating the lies that got you into this conflicted position (in your own head) so that if you say it enough/ push your false agenda enough it will become true in your memory.
you really are a sad case, but don’t be confused, i have zero sympathy for you.
lyke, you’re just a shill… (look it up)
The day you have your name in the chapter of a book written by David Gumpert, we can discuss why I still blog here. Until then, I will continue to pray for you. You are a mean spirited human being. I feel really sorry for you.
sadly and for many reasons some people are born defective, some are just unable to learn skills needed to survive, some are leaches and some are preditors. there was a time when society dealt with unsustainable lives. the tribe/village had a carrying capacity and everyone knew it.
now we keep horribly defective babies alive, now we support those too lazy or too stupid to support themselves. now we consider a clump of cells a human life.
well that and all the other unsustainable, self destructive (to society) and non-productive stuff that our society "holds high" is fine with me. i don’t care what anyone else does with their resources. but when that sucking of resources forces my family and me to go hungry or shoeless let me be clear here: i will say no more.
in fact you may be able to read in my words that i’m plain fed -up with all of ya’all. americans are greedy seflish ugly souls anymore and yes i realize there are still a lot of wonderful folks out there, but those good ones are a silent majority.
it’s the noisy whining minority that is the problem, people who think they know what is "best" for others. like cp, lyke, and you mary. you need to be put in your place, you need to be forced to live in the world you’ve created for all of us. you need to be held accountable. but you won’t be by the current sustem.
what will show you the light is down the road a bit. we have a completely unsustainable society running toward the cliff as fast as it can at this point. no one is looking back, no one can fix it. it’s completely unfixable because we need to maintain the status quo first and foremost…
while i doubt anymore that i’ll be gone before it hits you can be sure that your son will live and or die through it / because of it.
wanting to "protect" individuals at the sake of society is insanity. while i’m very sad at the extent we are destroying our own ability to live on this planet i am not evil or mean or ugly. what i am is fed-up and not willing to tollerate the clammering of minority "know-it-alls" any longer. so instead of being a member of the silent majority, as i have been for 50+ years i now take the role of telling you special interest know-it-alls what i really think of you. i doubt you can dislike my thoughts as much as i dislike yours, but hey, what do i know…
i am working as hard as i can to build a sustainable poly-farm that can support maybe 40 famlies. raw milk is a vital part of the effort. i don’t care much what you or anyone else do. what i care about is that you be constrained to do it only to yourself.
the rest of us want to be and now demand to be left alone.
while i truly believe our society must be allowed to crash i also believe there will be pockets of sustainability left to rebuild from. i am creating one small pocket in hopes of setting a place here for a few to hold out through the first wave of that wreckage.
what happens after that is unknowable and unplannable. if nothing happens because god or aliens pop in and save us (the only way i can imagine the crash not happening) well, then i have learned to farm and had a good time doing it. i also can then provide real food to a few families.
on the other hand should you cry babies who want to save everybody by employing Science (that’s a capital S) and corporate foods and drugs win completely and then find you were wrong… what damage will that have caused?
choose your sides wisely mary and lyke… you may have to live with the results, but even if you don’t your children will.
Do you feel better now? Got that off of your chest? I find it amazing that you think you know who I am, my beliefs systems, and how I live. Just ask yourself this question, if Im so unlike you, why did I choose raw milk for my child to consume?
Im sorry that you dont like the pathogen messageraw milk can host pathogens and it can make people sick. This is a fact not a theory. There have been multiple raw milk outbreaks over the past three years.
Im sorry that you are so offended that I insist that Mark McAfee and Sally Fallon tell the truth about my son and his illness. It is immoral to use deceit to make people feel safe about drinking raw milk. The facts of our case can stand on their own two feet. I can respect if you come to a different conclusion than I did about the facts, but lying about simple issues like what my son ate and how ill he was is wrong. That is my beef. Have you even asked yourself why they would do that? Who gains from the lies? Lets see. They wound up in the latest version of the Untold Story of Milk.
I admire that you are attempting your own sustainable farm. We should all have access to good healthy food. If selling raw milk is part of your practice, informing your customers of the pros and cons of raw milk consumption is the ethical road to take. Raw milk can host pathogensit is a simple message. Let your customers decide how they would like to consume their milk. Home pasteurization is an option for people. Raw milk is only ONE aspect of a healthy diet.
We do agree on one thing.my son will be living through hard times due to the selfish choices of the generations before him. We are killing our world. It is very sad.
I am not your enemy. I am a mom asking for a balanced, truthful message about raw milk from the raw milk leaders and community.
Mary McGonigle-Martin
Illness and death happen, and we come to different conclusions about what caused it. Some of us want restrictions on all kinds of things, thinking that will save more people. But often those kinds of restrictions make things worse. I have been written up at work when I helped a coworker save someone’s life instead of signing a paper in patient rooms that is supposedly legal documentation that I’ve been in that room every hour to check on my patients. The people doing the Quality Assurance checks for the hospital did not bother to find out what any nurse who didn’t sign the paper wasn’t doing – just picked that day to have people written up and went back into their little offices. Shoot, should I have let my coworker’s patient die in order to sign some red tape? What message does this send me as a nurse? I’ll tell you. After 13 years, I don’t think increased regulation necessarily saves lives. I think it puts them at further risk.
We are the most interventionalist country in the world for childbirth. We also have one of the worst infant mortality rates for developed countries.
So Lykke and Hugh Betcha; Mary and Mark; have at it. I’m going somewhere else again for a while, and none of you have changed MY opinions one teensy bit. When you’re up to actually discussing something of interest and import, I might show up again. Raw milk should not be regulated – people need to feed themselves and their communities. Marler needs to go buy himself a farm and raise food for people in Africa who are starving.
See ya’ll sometime later, maybe.
Truth is so relative, and slippery. Each account sounds true. In my heart I know that everyone who posted here posted their truth. Some on one leg.
Mary once wrote on another blog about how she felt responsible for her son’s weak immune system – (my kind of mom – been there….) – but that was years ago, and now her truth appears to have changed. My truth would probably change had it been my son, too. I don’t know if I’d go so far as to sue the farmer, but I’m sure I don’t know how it would change me. I keep feeding my son raw milk because I don’t want to see him in the hospital….
Mark’s truth has scores of healthy children behind it, relieved of asthma, eczema, colds & flu. If I were in his car, I’d be as fiercely optimistic as he is. He sits in the people’s car and waves. Some people don’t like that…
Marler knows that raw milk can be safe, but it isn’t financially convenient to disclose that. He’s a food poison lawyer….who grew up on raw milk! Pretty clear where his sacred cow is – if he never knew, then maybe I’d believe him. But he knows – and that makes him ineligible for a ticket on this train. He’s grounded! (I mean parentally – he stays in the station bar).
Lykke’s got a free pass because he listens sometimes and asks good questions, but he’s in the gov’t dogma car except for meal times.
The rest of us are here for the ride; we all paid our way, knowing that there’s some long dark tunnels and some spectacular views….and while there are no guarantees, we think we’re better off in the uncooked car but we just want the freedom to choose.
Hugh in the engine room, dang, you burn hot. It’s a long trip; burn slowly.
David Gumpert, Chief Engineer – thanks for writing that book! This train is bound for glory; you fuel it with truth.
-Blair
p.s. Who owes whom an apology?
Personally, I can’t get worked up over these guys not distinguishing between the "two milks." While I tend to agree with the concept in theory, we still have product here in our market intended for pasteurization that is being sold to the raw dairy market and we apparently have for at least three years.
Mary once wrote on another blog about how she felt responsible for her son’s weak immune system – (my kind of mom – been there….) – but that was years ago, and now her truth appears to have changed. My truth would probably change had it been my son, too. I don’t know if I’d go so far as to sue the farmer, but I’m sure I don’t know how it would change me. I keep feeding my son raw milk because I don’t want to see him in the hospital….
Chris had a perfectly healthy immune system before he became ill. He had one round of antibiotics in his lifetime, and that was years before he became ill. He was not a sickly child and the majority of his diet at the time he became ill and now is organic. We purchase all of our food from a health food store that is similar to a Whole Foods Market.
Ive never made the statement that Ive felt responsible for my sons weak immune system. That kind of talk is WAPF dogma. Blame the victim. What I felt guilty about and responsible for was causing my sons illness because I had made the choice to give him raw milk. I read the pro raw milk propaganda on the internet, went to the OPDC website and read everything there and was lulled into a mental safety and tried raw milk for my son. Two weeks latereveryone knows the story. None of the information I read presented realistic facts about the possibility of pathogens in raw milk.
Blair, and everyone else, have you ever wondered why I didnt sue OPDC right away? Why was there a 1 year time gap? When our family came home from the hospital, I had no intentions of suing. What transpired over the next year when I was blogging on TCP is what changed my mind. I discovered that Mark McAfee was spreading lies about the 4 sick children : what they ate and downplaying how ill they were. He was attempting to discredit all facts so that people would not believe raw milk made our children ill.
Prior to Chris becoming ill, I knew nothing of Sally Fallon, WAPF, or the raw milk movement. Marks lies showed up on the realmilk website, the raw milk yahoo group emails, and radio shows. I was sickened and appalled. Next, an honorary board member from WAPF starting stating false facts about my son and his illness on this blog and another one. A woman I didnt even know, who lived in North Carolina, was blogging about personal facts of my sons illness. The information she was stating was a twisted version of what I had shared with Mark McAfee when he intruded in our lives and visited us in the hospital. I would present the real facts and Mark McAfee and this woman would do a tag team of bullshit. Only a guilty man would behave in this disrespectful and disturbing manner. Maybe his conscience was bothering him because he had been ourtsourcing products and using the OPDC label (Trust Your Farmer?) Then, on the one year anniversary date of Chris illness, a raw milk consumer blogged that I needed to get counseling. I agreed and I did just that. I was tired of being bullied and harassed by people in the raw milk community. I found the best counselor in the nationBill Marler.
Mark McAfees behavior brought on the lawsuit. If he would have been respectful of our familys tragedy, a lawsuit would not have ensued. Mark doesnt seem to learn. He continues telling people in the raw milk community false statements about my sons illness. These false statements are spread on blogs and written in books. Sally Fallon herself spreads the lies. This is harassment of our family and I believe falls into the category of libel. Maybe Mark and Sally need to be reminded that Chris can afford a libel attorney.
Ive asked Mark McAfee to stop telling lies. Ive written Sally Fallon and asked her to take the lies off of her website. Ive asked for a public apologyIve received nothing. If this was you Blair and your family, how would you handle the situation? The raw milk movements philosophy is built on the foundation of integrity. I seriously question if the leaders in this movement have the capacity for integrity. You and others need to open your eyes and start questioning.
Mary
Mary, I am sorry for your pain. You sued and got a settlement. The case is over.
You want more. You want an apology among other things. You should have asked for it in the lawsuit.
Time to heal and let it go.
I live in California. Are you referring to a California raw milk dairy?
we still have product here in our market intended for pasteurization that is being sold to the raw dairy market and we apparently have for at least three years.
cp
http://public.findlaw.com/library/legal-system/timely-lawsuit.html
"What are the statutes of limitations in California?
Below you’ll find California’s statutes of limitations for many common types of lawsuits. Different time periods may apply in your state, so be sure to check your state’s rules carefully. However, the California rules are fairly typical and should give you a good idea of what you’re likely to find when you read your state’s rules.
* Medical malpractice actions: Three years from the date of injury or one year from the date of discovery of the injury, whichever occurs first.
* Suits for libel or slander: One year.
* Personal injury claims based on negligence: Two years."
As for integrity and honesty: the govt sets a perfect example. Why expect anyone to be different?
Amanda, I would like to know what dairy is selling milk intended for pasteurization as raw milk. I don’t want to make the mistake of purchasing it. Thanx
http://www.thecompletepatient.com/journal/2007/4/2/memoir-of-a-raw-milk-illness-turned-medical-nightmare-part-2.html
"Chris became ill from either the spinach or the milk. "
"I quit drinking raw milk in the early 1980’s because Alta Dena Dairy had a salmonella outbreak and the dairy could no longer sell raw milk products. I was bummed because I believed in all the benifits raw milk had to offer.
Fast forward to the Spring of 2006. The health food store we shop at started carrying Organic Pastures milk. I remember thinking, "Raw milk is being sold again, cool!" I wanted to buy some right away, but remembered the reason Alta Dena could no longer carry it. I reached for a bottle and then said to myself, "What if it was contaminated?" I decided not to buy it. Every week I looked at it. Every week I thought about it and then didn’t buy it.
At this time, Chris drank organic pasteurized milk. Every morning he work up congested. I didn’t like it. I knew if he drank raw milk, it would put an end to this congestion.
In the summer, Tony and I started a cleansing program. We followed the Body Ecology Diet (also the title of the book) and took some herbal cleansing products. This book is filled with information about the positives of raw milk and keifer. My chiropractor informed me about Joe Mercolla’s website and it’s filled with more positive info about raw milk.
I read and read and became excited about raw milk again."
Apparently you forgot that you "read and read and became excited about raw milk again". As you had stated, you may never find your answers. Between the two of you (you and Mark) you both just keep beating the poor dead horse. For what purpose? You refer to those raw milk consumers that don’t acknowledge the potential for contaminations…Are you referring to Sally fallon and OP? They only speak for themselves and no one else. I don’t recall seeing on this blog the statements that raw milk doesn’t have any contamination potential. ALL foods have the potential. It’s strange how the media doesn’t spout off about the poisoning from processed foods/medications/fast foods.etc. I have no clue what the "Body Ecology Diet " consists of, but would guess when you force something on your body, you will compromise something and cause a weakness in the system.
A public apology from both Mark and Sally on The Complete Patient would be such a simple solution. I also want the false information Sally has on the realmilk website removed. http://www.realmilk.com/update-ca.html
Do they have the courage and integrity to admit they made a mistake regarding false statements they both made about my son?
Im patiently waiting.
Sylvia, as for what you just posted. There is no inconsistency there. In the 1980s, I worked in a vitamin store in San Diego, California. This was the beginning of my journey to a healthy diet. The store had a large library of books. When we werent busy, Id read. That was my first exposure to literature on the pros to raw milk. It was legal in California, so I tried it. I probably drank raw milk and consumed raw cheese for about one year. That was close to 30 years ago, long before Sally Fallon, WAPF and the resent raw milk movement. BTW, I also recently discovered that Donna Gates (author of the Body Ecology Diet) is a board member on WAPF. I did not know that when I read her book.
Yes. I became excited about raw milk being sold again because I believed it has all the health benefits sited by the raw milk movement. I still do, but that doesnt mean I would ever take the risk again of consuming it. These are two separate issues: the health benefits of raw milk consumption vs. the risk for pathogen contamination.
In 2006, the information I read about raw milk did not mention any realistic information about pathogen contamination. The OPDC website posts all of their test results, but fails to mention that some of these tests are not even considered valid to be used for raw milk pathogen testing. They were designed to be used for juice. These tests gave me a false sense of safety.
The bottom linebalanced information about both the pros and cons of raw milk consumption needs to be addressed by the leaders in the raw milk movement. Any organization advocating the use of raw milk needs to present a warning about the possibility of pathogen contamination. Why would anyone be opposed to this?
Mary McGonigle-Martin
I am interested in the bigger issue about why there isn’t more concern over sourcing from dairies intended for pasteurization when the movement places an emphasis on the "two kinds of milk" issue. To be clear, the case I know of relates to manufactured products, not fluid milk. Does it matter, for instance, if you are making butter or cheese out of the milk you bring in?
Besides the outsourcing in my market, I have heard of it in one other during winter months when cow production declines. Probably everyone who is concerned about this issue should ask their farmer.
Amanda
http://www.thecompletepatient.com/journal/2007/4/2/memoir-of-a-raw-milk-illness-turned-medical-nightmare-part-2.html
"Chris became ill from either the spinach or the milk. "
you really have no credibility and your tirades against mark and sally are proof that you need to mis-remember so you can sleep at night. you personally damaged mark and are trying to damage sally for what? to justify your mistake? to have your lie become truth?
this is why i take issue with you and your continued attacks against raw milk. you really don’t know what made your son ill and that is something you need to admit.
http://www.marlerblog.com/rawmilk(1).pdf
Here is the Organic Pastures argument:
http://www.listen2yourgut.com/blogimages/Sept2006OPrecall.pdf
Here is the Marler-Clark argument:
http://www.marlerblog.com/uploads/file/Organic%20Pastures%202006%20Outbreak.pdf
Fast forward to the present and read the facts: 1) the DNA figerprint of the Dole spinach outbreak strain was different from the OP outbreak strain and 2) the kid(s) who reportedly ate spinach and drank OP raw milk before getting ill did NOT consume the implicated Dole brand bagged spinach product.
I don’t think its much to ask to update websites like WAPF’s with data that has been published since they printed preliminary reports (mostly from media sources). This part of the circular debate would probably go away if they had the integrity needed to make a correction. Personally, I don’t even care so much about an apology – just to correct the misinformation presented to the public would be sufficient.
RIGHT ON !
hugh,
How does having a dependable source of electricity fit into your plans. How are you handling / intending to handle this problem?
Feel free to respond of-list at daveshanken@juno.com
When you take a quote out of context, it doesnt make sense. You have to read the entire thread of comments to understand why I made that statement. In the hospital, the two foods that were questioned for causing E.coli 0157:H7 infection were raw milk and spinach. I was praying it would be the spinach. Both were consumed in the same timeframe.
The day we arrived at LLUCH is when the spinach outbreak hit the news. It took awhile before the common source of spinach was confirmed to be Dole packaged spinach. Once this occurred, spinach was ruled out as the cause of the infection. The spinach Chris ate was purchased from an open bin at our local health food store.
Everyone needs to move beyond the spinach theory and the OPDC outbreak. Sick children from raw milk consumption is not an isolated event that took place only in California. Bill Marler has the exact count, but I think there have been around 6 other outbreaks since then involving raw milk pathogen contamination. You can all have your opinions about our case, but what about all the other outbreaks?
Im not here to debate our case. A legal decision has already been made on this topic. Lets move forward. There is a raw milk movement in the U.S.. Information about the pros and cons of raw milk both need to be addressed in a fair and balanced manner by the leaders in the raw milk community.
Below is where Sylvia and HB are isolating one sentence I stated in April of 2007.
Elizabeth,
The outcome of which product was contaminated had nothing to do with his treatment plan. He had already been diagnosed with HUS and was on the respirator by the time we were attempting to have the food tested. We were already at Loma Linda Children’s Hospital when they announced the spinach outbreak. At this time Chris was very critical, so it just didn’t matter that they weren’t going to test the food products. The only fighting energy we had at this time was for Chris.
As for the child that didn’t drink Organic Pastures milk, I don’t know if he tested positive for e-coli.
As for the milking of the cows, I don’t have any knowledge on this subject. I do know that Mark McAfee invented a milking machine that goes out to the pasture to milk. As for how this all works, I’m not the one to address this subject. I don’t know if milk goes directly into a bottle or if the cows are milked and the milk is mixed together before it is bottled.
Chris became ill from either the spinach or the milk. There wasn’t anything else new in his diet that would have caused contamination. We don’t each fast food. Chris is a VERY picky eater. He basically eats the same foods all the time, and he only eats foods purchased from Sprouts health food store.
This is why everything leads back to the milk. I don’t know if you have gone to Organic Pastures website. Mark McAfee runs an amazing dairy. In theory, his milk should be clean….but it apprears that something is off enough to cause kids to become ill.
Our story was run in West magazine in December. It mentioned where we worked. A woman named Melissa contacted me. She wanted to let me know that both her young children got e-coli from drinking Mark’s milk. This was in August of 2005.
I don’t know what this all means. It just seems that we have raw milk and sick kids.
April 4, 2007 | Mary McGonigle-Martin
we went way out on a limb in ’05 and financed a 30kw solar array to run the farm with enough (hopefully) to pack in more freezers and fridges when needed. (we raise chickens, the only free range flock i know of in the state, pork- birkshires for now, beef/veal and turkeys – what a pain in the butt they are.. 2 bee hives so far with hopes of 25 over time.) .for now we’re tied into the grid and produce a fair amount of excess power. we’ve gone to some lengths to conserve power anyway and couldn’t be happier with how it’s all worked out to date. i’d highly recommend anyone thinking about solar to do it. the rewards are many and the maintenance almost zero.
we’re working on bringing all our imputs in house, we (dw and i) maintain 40 acres in permanent pasture 20 acres in hay grasses. 25 acres for imputs (cory/rye/oats/wheat/sun flowers etc…) and we have 25 acres in rehab to become pasture over the next few years.
we’re working on digging a 2 acre fishing pond and hope to have fish – bass, trout and catfish in future years.
we don’t do much in veggies yet, we’re playing with a small kitchen garden for now.
we have 3 deep water wells and are also working to repair/rehab the irrigation system that feeds to all pasture and fields.
we’re stocking/building our pantry monthly and i hope to build a root cellar someday.
i’m sure i’ve forgotten some other stuff that we are or hope to be doing and i’m glad to hear ideas comments etc… we have no money to speak of, all this is being done day by day with funds generated from our local food customers. while it is slow going year over year reviews always show great progress our confidence is high that come what may we’ll be able to continue building since our eggs are absolutely the best anyone who has tried them ever had. our beef is sweet and tender (our pastures are in fine shape with good variety of grasses) and ..
sorry to ramble on about our farm, all in all we are darn proud of it, especially since anyone we ever spoke to regarding the idea of poly-farming in the north-east told us flat out that it can’t be done… "grow corn and soy" they told us, and "get a day job or you’ll lose the farm".
http://www.marlerblog.com/2009/09/articles/lawyer-oped/comparing-the-food-safety-record-of-pasteurized-and-raw-milk-products-part-2/#more
I have deep respect for you as a mom and parent. You come to this blog and use your own name. Others make nasty comments from behind fake names but you do not. I respect you for this. You are a hurt mother lion.
If OPDC was the cause of Chris’s terrible illness, I deeply apologize. I also apologize for pain that the recovery and litigation has caused your family. OPDC never ever wishes illness upon any one. Our goal is to help Californias become strong through enzyme rich, biodiverse foods that contain good fats from grass fed raw milk. There was never a causation link found to connect Chris or any other child to our products and none of our products tested positive for any pathogens. As a human being…that does not matter to me….your peace and tranquility is much more important and that is what I want for you. I also apologize for any errors or mistatements that I possibly have made in the past. I have tried my best to be accurate and fair…but maybe I have made some mistakes. In the heat of defending your own family from stone throwers and pain….mistakes can happen. I never intentionally made any mistatments, however in retrospect….a quick word or unkind word said in anger….was a mistake and I regret and aplogize for this.
I ask you to please leave the 2006 episode behind us. There is so much good to be done and negativity is not good for health or our emotional or spirtual well being.
I ask you to forgive me for for my human errors and if I have caused you or your son any pain I am truly sorry. I am eternally grateful that Chris and Lauren are thriving and hope that at no time in the future OPDC will ever be associated with a"recall" regardless of fault or a proveable connection to an illness.
Mary, please appreciate that so many children thrive and grow very strong on raw milk. The very remote theoretical risk of illness from tested retail approved raw milk is far outwieghed by the health and recovery from illness that children that drink raw milk enjoy.5000 kids die from Asthma every year. Crohns is now an epidemic. Raw milk and Raw Milk Kefir prevent and heal these diseases and many more. Medical doctors come to me all the time because the interventional answers in their drug chests do not work or cause horrible, some times life threatening, side effects. In your heart please rest knowing that I am truly sorry for any pain I have caused you.
My life efforts have always been to help and not hurt.
All the best,
Mark McAfee
30 KW. My, my.
When you invited interested folks to visit your farm last spring, I wondered if any would take you up on it. I would like to have come if I were closer a lot closer. My wife almost came, but the scheduling wouldnt work out.
Ive not gotten as far down the road as you have, but Im impressed by / envious of your accomplishments. Your commitment to preparing for an uncertain future is an inspiration.
Ive been reading John Michael Greers blog at http://thearchdruidreport.blogspot.com/. Its aimed at people who are ready to wake up and need some perspective on what to do from here. It seems like youre on track.
If I get East, Id like very much to visit and not just for the raw milk aspects of what you are doing.
I don’t get why raw milk needs to cause such division. Anyway, since we are sharing personal farm experiences, am happy to report that the county approved our place as sustainable ag, and now we’re looking at how to work this for a tax break to install solar. I admire what HB is doing to be sustainable, and didn’t come to visit this blog because the CIA or someone planted me here, like HB has suggested.
Regarding being a government lacky or shill (lol), I’d like to remind y’all, when The Bad Thing Happens, the public blames the government for not doing enough to inform and protect. These folks in the UK are all over the government for not shutting down farms sooner. That’s how it works: the majority (this blog is the minority) want protection and information about pathogens, and expect the government to provide and protect.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/surrey/8253823.stm
The govt divide many. The govt does NOT give or require full disclosure for any other foods, chemicals or even drugs. Why require it of raw milk?
The majority do not read any fine print. Most do not take the time to research what words mean. They follow like sheep, blindly putting trust into the dishonest conglomerates.
It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to know that any food has the potential for contamination. The recent wide spread contaminations should have opened peoples eyes, if it hadn’t, then they must choose to remain blind.
Protection? Basic SOPs, basic guidelines shouldn’t be a problem. Should the words fair and realistic be there too? As stated on this blog many times; the govts do not search out better safer ways and teach. Their reaction to raw foods and even real organic foods, shows fear. Such a small nitch, yet you can smell the fear from tptb, as people are slowly opening their eyes.
Any business person knows to stay in business you must give the people what they want. confinement farms cannot do that, nor can the huge chemical infested farms change. Each time there is poison from another country, it makes a small dent into the purchasing of those imported items. It does make a difference. Word of mouth goes far.
As to your link to the BBC report; they knew at the end of Aug where it came from yet they didn’t notify anyone else coming onto the farm? and they continued to allow people to visit? "possible 50000" infected? There are many missing pieces to that story. Or maybe they do investigations like their American counterparts.
I realize what I am about to say is irrelevant with respect to the status quo, however the majority as you refer to them are misinformed and misguided germaphobes.
There is something amiss when out of a multitude of exposed individuals a handful of illnesses are classified as an outbreak. More accurately they are isolated incidences that have been circumstantially attributed to an organism that is merely responding to inconsistencies (man made or otherwise) within its environment.
Is the organism indeed at fault or are health officials and the public at large merely grasping at straws?
Ken Conrad
http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2009/sep/26/margaret-atwood-mini-science-fiction
Great that you also are working toward sustainable practices. But I’m wondering… From whence the happiness that the county has "approved" your place as sustainable? Is it because now you finally have assurance that you are doing the right thing? Or is it because, as you noted, the government imprimatur gives you a tax lever? Of is it that your county is so advanced that farmers are not allowed to implement "sustainable" practices without government approval, and now you may forge ahead?
Excuse the edge, but if our government/business Siamese twin gods from hell do to "sustainable" what they did to "organic" then we had better pray for a reprise of Babel.
Neither government nor big business has any interest in promoting local communities, which is where the real knowledge and benefit of true sustainabilty resides. In fact, their interests are quite the opposite. They want to divide people from their local dependencies, and transfer those dependencies onto business and government. How sustainable is sustainable when business can manipulate it and government must approve it?
And last, for my own curiosity, did the approval cost you anything?
I think it cost about fifty dollars for the inspector to come out and verify that it was a farm, in other words, the plants were legal (if you know what I mean, lol). I’m not sure what they mean by sustainable, but it resulted in a letter that can be used to further develop the farm with tax breaks….
The public nature of what should be private conversation is also very interesting.
I appreciate very much what Mark had to say – can’t’ve been easy.