Eight years ago, a private Minneapolis food market known as Traditional Foods was shut down by local public health officials for not being properly licensed. A few days ago, a private market meant to replace Traditional Foods was shut down in much the same manner, just days after it proudly opened in spanking new quarters. (See photos.)
Eight years ago, the owners of Traditional Foods claimed they would fight the food police and prevail. So it is today, as Will Winter, the owner, has expressed confidence that lawyers from Farm-to-Consumer Legal Defense Fund will find a way to allow the new market, known as Uptown Locavore, to reopen.
If you examine history, though, the odds aren’t great for the new market. Traditional Foods never reopened at its old location after the owner was jerked around for many months by evasive local bureaucrats. Mind you, neither market was involved in selling raw milk, but rather focused on fresh meats and fish, along with other delicacies like quail eggs.
History has shown that the only way to make it as a private market in Minnesota is to defy the officials, as Alvin Schlangen did after Traditional Foods was shuttered. He continued to provide raw milk and farm-slaughtered meats to members of his food club, even after his delivery van was raided and food confiscated. His defiance led to heavy-duty pressure by the powers that be, including fcriminal charges and a trial. In the end, he prevailed, and continues in business today.
Ironically, Will Winter was the founder of Traditional Foods, but had sold out prior to the raid in 2010 that eventually shuttered the market. It’s unclear at this point if he has the stomach for defiance.
In an email yesterday to members and supporters of the market, Winter stated: “The Uptown Locavore is totally closed down, the food cannot be touched by me or anyone, and the farmers are not able to bring the additional milk, eggs, meat and other items we have already ordered. This is hurting not only me but over 20 sustainable farms. We are in pain, now, and for no legal reason whatsoever. Justice is not being served!”
The Minneapolis food police doing their search last Thursday at Uptown Locavore.
He advised supporters: “Don’t give up hope. We can change this if we work together as a group of citizens who know our rights. We need to put pressure and bring embarrassment to the city officials who are on this unfair vendetta.”
Maybe supporters can make enough noise to pressure local officials to shift their position and recognize the private food rights of Minneapolis citizens. I’m doubtful. This is Minnesota, after all, which works more closely with the U.S. Food and Drug Administration than almost any other state, All indications are that the new administration in Washington prefers that the FDA treat food rights and raw milk issues much the same as previous administrations did. Given that regulatory landscape, Winter will have a decision to make about whether he wants to risk his personal freedom to assert everyone’s private food rights.
Some more from Will Winter’s statement to supporters and members: “The policy at these agencies is clearly against small enterprise. Even without complaints we are GUILTY UNTIL PROVEN INNOCENT! They want to shut down anything except the big box stores that, in this case, support Big Ag. They are bullies (in general) and seem to want to feel BIG by crushing the little man. They are riding the clock anyway, so they can do this forever, knowing that eventually they can deplete our tiny resources, grind us down, and eventually destroy us. Instead of using their resources to pursue real criminals and real crime, they waste their day trying to destroy people they don’t understand, and then seem to hate.
“This means, to them, that we will now need to ‘play hardball’ with the city. We have had ZERO COMPLAINTS and there are absolutely no health problems from the operation of our private buying club. The “food police” has absolutely no jurisdiction over PRIVATE TRANSACTIONS. If I sold you a used car, that is between me and you, it doesn’t make me a car dealer nor do I need a license to do it. It is PRIVATE, not public. The city officials do not understand what is our protected American right to make our own choices in private dealings. I am absolutely fine with public stores, shops and services being licensed. That has value. But, this unjustified persecution of people doing the right thing makes me very unhappy to be American.”
1) Start a food coop members will be charged according to usage of resources while some will work for food.
2) Here in LA my friend opened home deliveries using a missioners license, funds are collected as donations to the ministry just as in a temple/church
3) Offer up? Use internet websites bartering goods for services, this is how real community starts.
4) Being an American means innovation, the farmers selling meat products here do it on a monthly basis where customers are invited to buy according to availability for pick-up.
5) Don’t let the govt inefficiencies rule or ruin your day, go around them and move quickly.
6) Let go of the persecution, there is no guilt to be free. People powered movement can always find a way!
“All indications are that the new administration in Washington prefers that the FDA treat food rights and raw milk issues much the same as previous administrations did.”
What indications has the Trump administration sent regarding State rights? None. Food is still regulated at the local, state, and national levels. Each state determines food safety laws. The FDA is responsible for regulating all food except for meat, poultry, and egg products. The Feds have jurisdiction only over the transport of products across state lines (interstate sales). FDA’s Food Safety Modernization Act (FSMA) was signed into law by President Obama, not President Trump, and affects how produce is grown, packed, processed, shipped and imported into the U.S.
It’s not always wise to go around the law.
So perhaps, instead of adding to the list of complaints and promoting victimization it might be time for the farmers to realize we live in a corrupt system and play the game better. Why not create a new law to exempt small farmers and distributors of real, local foods from the commercial laws that do not apply to them? In the natural health world these laws are known as Safe Harbor laws, and in MN, the author of these laws, Diane Miller, JD., co-founder of the National Health Freedom Coalition, and Action, organizations is right there to help.
Rosanne, you are correct about states determining food safety laws. As I think you’d be the first to acknowledge, reality is sometimes different from what’s written in the law books. I’m going to provide a lengthy 3-part response to your comment, because I think it’s important for everyone here to understand some realities around food rights, and how the current federal administration approaches them.
1. You say, “The Feds have jusdiction only over transport of products across state lines.” When writing my book about food rights (“Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Food Rights”) a few years back, I investigated closely the FDA’s relationship with Minnesota food safety officials. Here is some of what I discovered, from the book: “The Minnesota health and agriculture agencies are known to be close to the FDA. A little over a year after the MDA’s crackdown (on the Traditional Foods private market in 2010), it issued a press release saying it had received a one million dollar grant from the FDA ‘to strengthen its capacity to respond to food-borne outbreaks and other food safety events.’ A year later, the MDA was awarded six hundred thousand dollars in FDA grants ‘to enhance the state’s food safety capabilities.’
In its report to Congress covering 2011 activities in various states, the FDA said it had seventy-four employees in Minnesota, along with contracts and grants with the MDA. The report alluded to a contract with the MDA to ‘conduct food safety inspections’ as well as a grant that was for a ‘Food Safety Task Force to coordinate and address food safety and defense issues among regulated industry and regulators within the state.’
“The FDA’s ties to Minnesota agencies are representative of a national campaign to strengthen the relationship between states and the FDA. In its messages to Congress and the public, the FDA communicates the sense that it cooperates closely with state public health and agriculture agencies. It even has a Division of Federal-State Relations, and in a Year in Review report recapping its activities, its director, Joseph Reardon, stated that the FDA handed out to states more than forty-one million dollars in grants, contracts, and cooperative agreements in 2010. Moreover, the FDA ‘commissioned 1,346 State and Local officials to assist FDA in traditional program areas such as foods and animal feeds.’ According to Reardon, ‘the FDA and the States can equally benefit from the goal of a national food safety system.’
Since the new administration took over a little more than a year ago, we’ve been told about huge changes to major federal agencies, including EPA, State Department, Dept of Education, Dept of Homeland Security. But not a word about food safety enforcement at FDA. Why not? Because there haven’t been any changes.
2. You say, “So perhaps, instead of adding to the list of complaints and promoting victimization it might be time for the farmers to realize we live in a corrupt system and play the game better. Why not create a new law to exempt small farmers and distributors of real, local foods from the commercial laws that do not apply to them?” Just over a year ago, the Real Food Consumer Coalition, a food rights organization, filed a Citizen Petition with the FDA, seeking to get the federal ban on interstate sales and shipment of raw milk lifted, in favor of stronger labeling of raw milk. The FDA is required to act on Citizen Petitions within six months. Even though more than a year has gone by, the FDA has yet to do anything with the Citizen Petition, except to notify RFCC that it is still working on it. I wrote about the Citizen Petition when it was filed. http://www.davidgumpert.com/proposedwarninglabel
I joined in supporting the Citizen Petition, based on the Trump Administration’s many statements that it was committed to reducing unnecessary regulation (which are discussed in the petition). Unfortunately, many farmers and food rights activists sat on their hands after the petition was filed, and FDA got the message that the food rights community wasn’t truly committed to getting the FDA out of the business of interfering in people’s access to good foods. I doubt the petition will go anywhere.
3. You ask: “What indications has the Trump administration sent regarding State rights? None.” I would strongly disagree with your conclusion. In addition to its failure to act on the Citizen Petition and its likely direct support of the shutdown of the new private food market in Minneapolis, the FDA has aggressively gone after farmers producing camel milk around the country. In the process, it has deprived thousands of families with autistic children of a vital food in countering the effects of autism. I’ve written a little about this, but have held off on writing more at the request of farmers who have been victimized by the agency’s brutal tactics, and fear that further publicity might create even harsher action. I don’t agree with them, but I respect the wishes of farmers seeking to avoid publicity of cases that haven’t been officially identified.
http://www.davidgumpert.com/fda-trying-block-families-autistic-accessing-raw-camel-milk
So, in answer to your question, I’d say that the current administration’s backing of the FDA’s ongoing tough enforcement against producers of raw dairy and other good food, on the basis of interstate transport of privately purchased products, contradict the answer you offered.
Believe me, even though I disagree with the administration on many issues, I hoped against hope it would bring its philosophy about excess regulation to bear on behalf of small farms and other food producers. But what we’ve learned is that its opposition to excess regulation applies only to major corporations.
One of the things this administration has been brilliant at is getting underdogs everywhere riled up about promises to “drain the swamp,” and then proceeding to repopulate the swamp with equally or more corrupt people than before, and implement measures that stomp underdogs even further into the ground. Smart people, these new swamp dwellers. Just one example: last month farmers of conventional products, from Iowa and such, complained that they were being hurt because Trump had, as one of his first actions on becoming prez, withdrawn from the TransPacific Partnership. I guess his people went back and asked about rejoining. The other signers of the agreement laughed at us. Other countries now had preferential deals for selling to Asia, and understandably weren’t going to help us out.
http://fortune.com/2018/04/12/donald-trump-tpp-trans-pacific-partnership/
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/13/world/asia/trump-tpp-asia.html
These food issues are decades old, not just this administration. Ever since food became patented we have been slogging along yet moving in circles. Please comment on this ever more obvious gov. document of oxymorons and attempt to own life through a marketing agency. Ridiculous!
https://www.regulations.gov/document?D=AMS-TM-17-0050-0004
ID: AMS-TM-17-0050-0004
Posted May 4, 2018
Federal Register #2018-09389 Comments will be posted in order of docket queries
I. Introduction
(1) As stated by AMS at the top of page 5, U.S. Government agencies are responsible for oversight of the products of biotechnology. The responsibility to protect public health also rests with the U.S. government. However in the case of
foodborne pathogens the liability rests solely with the victim, end provider and taxpayer.
2) The particular product at issue is not the food but constructs of pathogenic variety employed in genetic engineering.
3) a. All foods with BE methodology including cisgenics, food treatment with bacteriophage, dorman preparations, enzymes, and added controls regarding preservation of food products, warrant consumer awareness.
4) Defining BE foods by adoptability characteristics is semantics, adoption levels is a marketing ploy to allow new products a comfortability status with flexibility for market approvals of intellectual propriety.
5) Scientific assessment should determine a threshold for bioengineered substances with global peer review. The AMS threshold could also represent new releases without regulation and scientific evaluation.
6) Any applicable exceptions would be in the case of accidental contamination of neighboring BE crops.
Page 6
B. Food Subject to Disclosure
The amended Act should not limit the definition of articles used for human consumption whilst not including articles used for animals. Many animals are also for human consumption which pose safety risks. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19055690
C. Symbol Disclosure
Cost analysis would prove inefficient for food producers. Labeling is transparency.
D. Electronic or Digital Link Disclosure
This makes sense for manufacturers and producers pertaining to segregation in the food supply, but it is perfunctory regarding consumer labels.
Position 1
In the case of highly processed products the pesticide residues of BE crops are alarmingly high, and should require testing to determine safety.
Position 2
There are not 2 different positions on interpretation of bioengineering, statutory definition includes ALL products in part or whole containing BE ingredients. The regulatory impact of implementation is the responsibility of the tax subsidized biotech producers and “inventors”.
CONVENTIONAL BREEDING
“Conventional Breeding” currently used to propagate or modify genetics constitute a BE food product.
“FOUND IN NATURE”
Found in nature vs released in nature? Since cisgenics is employing wild strain varieties and BE agricultural strains, both which are now found in nature and employed through scientific mutation, it is reasonable to assume that the scientific act maybe be patentable but the actual seed varieties are not. Since most infectious constructs are found in nature but are engineered to cross species barriers, the act of constructing pathogenic varieties for use in the food supply as in directed mutagenesis implies we cannot predict the future of every cell, thus patenting under a science model based on Darwinian selection is absurd.
2. LISTS OF BIOENGINEERED FOODS
Feeding trials of perishable products should be mandatory with published results. Updates to determine standards and environmental statistics should be made available to the public. The potential could be that new varieties pose risk to the food chain without identifying sources of contamination.
Page 17
AMS will consult with U.S. government agencies responsible for oversight of the products of biotechnology? The 1992 guidelines, for BE treats “transferred genetic material and the intended expression product or products” in food derived from GM crops as food additives subject to existing food additive regulation: FDA regulations state: “The purpose of the legal definition, however, is to impose a premarket approval requirement.
2. FACTORS AND CONDITIONS
Secretary of Agriculture SHOULD NOT be allowed to determine factors or conditions without extensive scientific research including feeding trials.
D) Exemptions
The largest food producers will easily navigate this system by branching subsidiaries. Enabling compliance while avoiding labeling.
Labels already exist for foreign markets and food segregation systems are in place. Implementing the same regulation other countries require could transition in the near future.
3. PLACEMENT OF DISCLOSURE
INGREDIENT PANEL BELOW LISTED INGREDIENTS as is in foreign markets. BE foods are listed as food additives & are required by FDA to be labeled.
4. All business’s maintain records for tax purposes for seven years!
All BE foods should be labeled with inference to novel products as well as highly adopted.
Ordinary shopping does not require a handheld device.
The Secretaries review needs to be made public in consideration of Civil Rights, with information on which Technology companies will benefit from the marketing of Consumers Right to Know.
Rosanne, spot on.
Technically the fed govt has no say over state food laws. They have no right to make laws about foods at all. The constitution lays out the form and functions of the govt. It clearly gives the federal 30 and ONLY 30 (ennumerated) powers. Anything they make laws over these powers is out of their legitimate jurisdiction.
That means their fed “laws” regarding education, health, food, firearms (state militia) etc are all Anti-Constitutional. The guys who WROTE the constitution stated that any such law is “pretended” or “imaginary” and doesn’t have to be followed. T Jefferson went further and said it’s our DUTY to disobey such illegal assaults on our freedoms.
Personally, i just avoid doing whatever the “govt” says at anytime. Because when you REALLY go down the rabbit hole you find no Wonderland – you end up in hell. It turns out the govt tricks us into thinking we are corporations (fictitious legal entity name written in ALL CAPS is legally, always, a corporation – look on birth cert and Drivers License) and have to obey them – a corporation. UNITED STATES OF AMERICA – which was literally incorporated in 1861.
Legally speaking no corporation has ANY regulatory authority over a human being -so extracting our true, human selves from their enmeshing legal system is the most effective thing one can do – and yet – the morons still do wield a big stick.
Brad,
Is there a legal basis for a differentiation in legal documents between names written in caps (e.g. corporations) versus those not in caps? Are names on legal documents, such as for an individual person, ever not capitalized? What is the basis for saying names written in ALL CAPS mean it’s a fictitious legal entity name?
Roseanne, so this food market broke no laws and did nothing wrong. If we roll over and give in, the Feds win will become more arrogant and forceful. Creating new laws (highly unlikely) will not change anything since no laws were broken. Furthermore what business is it of the feds to tell us what food we have to consume.
David,
(Mark McAfee requested that his harsh criticisms of Donald Trump contained here be removed. When asked for an explanation of why, in light of all the discussion that flowed from his comment, he stated: “I want to be constructive. I serve all and not just the left wing of America. I do not want to send the improper message of intolerance to right wing. They need to eat also.” The editor.)
We have seen a total melt down of organic ethics because of the Trump NOP lack of enforcement and green light to cheat! It appears that organic CAFO dairymen have taken his green light lead and now violate the Pasture Rule with impunity. Dumping massive amounts of non compliant organic milk into places like CA and Wisconsin, killing off pasture compliant dairies abc ruining prices abc demand. We are watching the end days of organic dairies. Cheating is rampant because CAFO operators flooded markets with non pastured organic milk. Pastured dairies are being forced out. CA has lost 12% of its organic dairies this year alone. 80% of horizon organic contracts cancelled in CA alone YTD.
Thank Trump and Sonny Purdue for this.
All you Trump fans ? What a great decision you made. It’s now eating it’s young. Show me one good thing he has done. There is not one.
On the list of ages…. America will be measured by this deplorable loss of consciousness.
I thank my god every day that I am raw and organic and consumer connected with my own brand and trucks. I am insulated from most of the carnage. So many of my organic dairy friends are losing it all under Trumps CAFO favors and destruction of the Pasture Rule.
There comes a time when it’s far more important to be an American than to be partisan. Now is that time.
His refusal to apologize to Senator John McCain for his staffer saying “ he doesn’t matter….he is dying anyway” was the last straw for me.
This sicko must go now. I love my country and it’s values to much to let this continue. I hope the MAGA citizens can breath this in and retain 5% of what I have shared here.
Enforcement against Will Winter and his food club is just another sign of Trump fascism.
Take out your vote and use it wisely. We hold the future in our hands.
Mark
Mark, are you looking in the mirror? Your rant sounds as if you are. Your hatred is blinding in many ways.
The choices we had for POTUS… a known crook or an ass.. a crook or an ass; hmmm. That’s not rocket science. What I do support is my country and the Constitution. I don’t have to like who sits in the White House to do that. Voting for the “lessor of evils” has been the norm for decades. BTW I am not a republican nor democrat. I don’t believe in parties, I believe that everyone should run on their own merit. And I do research each candidate before I vote, as everyone should.
What is sad or even pathetic is that the other side, is just as mush a hateful mean bully as you. You all are shining from each end of the spectrum and the beams that are cast on others is only distancing people from both ends. Which, that may be a good thing, as the ends are a small fraction of each and the center is only growing stronger.
Songbird McCain? Really? The families of the POWS and the Forrestal would not agree with you.
Moonbeam isn’t helping California, did I miss your rant about him?
“Show me one good thing he has done. ”
You are blinded by choice or hatred perhaps? Since ALL media lie and/or push their own agendas, it is up to the person to do their own research. Others say Iran was not upholding their part of the deal. https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/pm-expected-to-reveal-how-iran-cheated-world-on-nuke-program-1.6045300
I cannot imagine anyone believing Iran. In a nutshell, the surrounding countries; Saudi,(yes Saudi) and others are buddies with Israel now. The reason–they feared Iran obtaining nuclear weapons.
Leaders of these counties are spewing their own threats: “Foreign Minister Adel al-Jubeir says Saudi will match any Iranian development of nuclear weapons”. What could possibly go wrong? Saudi Arabia signed the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty in 1988, but it will probably need covert help from Israel. As John McCain once said: Bomb Bomb Bomb, Bomb Bomb Iran!
I did read the Paris climate change agreement and I am damn glad he pulled out as it was NOT fair to the US nor cost effective. We would be paying to be penalized in both goods and funds.
I have a child that is active duty and I sleep better knowing that the chances of being abandoned in some hell(sh*t)hole country is slim, not so with the other person that was running. My husband had various clearances in the 24 years he served in the US army and had he done what she did with private servers and emails, he’d still be rotting in some prison. People have been sent to prison for far less than what she did. I thank God each and every day that she is not POTUS.
Mark, correct me if I’m wrong, but YOU are a billionaire too right? Also I again invite you to tell us just what Hillary has done right so we can understand your blind support. Most of what I’ve heard and read about her ventures is not very complimentary, in fact it’s downright depressing, and she’s already had a turn or two in the White House. I’m waiting.
as one of that “subset of Trump supporters” reviled by Mr McAffee, it’s entertaining to watch him come unglued … yet again! … now a year since PRESIDENT Trump took office. Laughable that this forum’s resident expert on the politics of the milk biz. lays all the blame for half a century of governmental mis-management of dairying, at the feet of the current POTUS.
But nothing is so useless it cannot at least be used as a bad example = Take Mister McAffee, please! … with one foot nailed to the floor, he personifies the partisan poison permeating the Republic.
since Mister McAffee appeals to “his god”, perhaps he’ll inform us mere “deplorables” as to who – or what? – is that particular supernatural entity which he serves? It sure is NOT the God of the united States of America, whose name is plain and obvious, and beyond argument through the history of the Republic, starting with the MayFlower Compact, Jesus Christ
as for = ‘For the life of me, I can not find one rational thought about why anyone would support or agree with Trump.” Then let me help you ; From participating here over the last 6 years, I know that the majority of subscribers on this forum are white Christians. Trump’s candidacy was a turning-point in white folks understanding the nature of our Enemy, ie. the mixed multitude spoken of in the Bible. Your rants, Mr McAffe, are most helpful for educating all-concerned as to the genesis of the race war going on. Mister Trump won the election because he/ his handlers know that the Law of our God = the God of Israel = resonates deep in the authentic character America. Separation from the world, being one of that Law’s chief precepts. Whites held their noses against the noxious fumes from the rest of Trump’s pecadilloes, and voted accordingly.
So if you’re “sick” of the present regime, Mister McAffee … emulate that great role model of a generation ago, John Wayne … go off in the corner and be sick all by yourself, quietly. Vent your idiocy on some website where they care.
I’ve come to realize that it’s pretty much impossible to dissuade Trump supporters from their love affair with the man. It’s akin to trying to talk a woman out of her infatuation with an abusive partner. (I refer to a woman because most seriously abusive relationships involve a woman with an abusive man.) People who care about the woman can see the signs of trouble in the abusive man, even as he regales her with amazing promises (“You’ll get tired of winning.”) but the woman is starry-eyed, and thinks the friends who are warning her “just don’t understand” what a wonderful person the abusive partner is.
Once the relationship is sealed, such as via marriage, the problems begin. He sabotages her big career opportunities that she’s spent years cultivating. (Withdrawal from Asia-Pacific Partnership)
He sabotages her connections with her closest friends. (Alienating long-time allies like England, France, Germany)
He sabotages her connections with the community at large. (Withdrawing from the world climate agreement, becoming only country in the world to bow out)
He insults her closest friends and makes nice to her long-time enemies. (Calling John McCain a loser for having been a POW and encouraging his death, while going easy on Vladimir Putin)
He cancels her health insurance keeps the savings for himself. (Sabotaging of Obamacare and cutting taxes for big corporations)
Did I mention he calls ICE to check out our wonderful Haitian cleaning lady? She’s legal, but it turns out her grandmother is questionable, and she is deported, even though she can barely walk. (Throwing out as many immigrants as possible)
Yet even as the abuse damages her financially and emotionally, she remains devoted to her abuser. Why? Because of a poor self image. She has concluded that all men are creeps and crooks, and the guy she has, bad as he may be, is still better than all the other possible partners out there. So she puts up with it, even as the relationship becomes violent. (Pulling U.S. out of a peace agreement with Iran that was working and keeping the peace).
When the woman eventually decides she can’t take one more night of being beaten up, and wants to end the relationship, he laughs at her. He won’t allow it. The fun has just begun.
It is not illegal to be an ass.
It is illegal to use your private servers and emails for government business especially; Top Secret, Secret,Confidential, or any other classification.
Sylvia, I don’t want to get into a debate about Hillary. All I’ll say is that she was never charged or convicted of the accusation you make. So, yes, it is illegal to do the things you list, but to the extent it applies to Hillary, it is only your and others’ opinion, not a legal fact for her.
Our prez may well have carried out assorted illegal acts, including illegal campaign contributions (around Stormy Daniels and similar affairs), violation of emoluments clause of U.S. Constitution (for getting favors on his company’s real estate deals from foreign governments), obstruction of justice (in Comey and other matters), and money laundering (in connection with his former campaign manager). However, he hasn’t been charged or convicted of any of this stuff, so at this point it’s a similar situation–conjecture, opinion, as well by various pundits.
David, I would suggest you re-read comey’s statement. He stated the offenses she did and months later it came out that even more TS & S information was obtained by unfriendlys as was stated in July. Comey lied when he alluded that intent had to be proved. For “matters” such as this, intent does not need to be proved. I see no point in even a discussion, as you have shown you are closed to any issue in reference to her or him. This whole fiasco, has shown there are two sets of laws, one for them and the rest for us surfs. I bid you adieu.
Also for the record, Sylvia, the new prez and his AG could have pursued the case you describe against Hillary. They chose not to. The prez is not a soft-hearted person. He must have been persuaded there wasn’t a compelling legal case, and that he would have been badly humiliated had he lost.
But David . . . the suspected traitors are investigating the suspected traitors, so they are sworn to protect each other!
The crimes that were allegedly commited by HRC, et al, are so huge and so many people are involved at many levels, that the whole thing will become a neverending *investigation*.
In my opinion, the more people protest and drag things out, the less innocent they seem.
I think this is something where only time will tell the whole truth, but for now it’s only pearl-clutching and the vapors.
It seems to me, however, there’s a lot of pearl-clutching going on for those who are constantly berating President Trump without proven proof, either.
A bad case of speculation going around – for all involved. And speculation is not proof. Nor are opinions.
Mark,
You’ll enjoy this interview with Conrad Black about his new book, “Donald Trump: A President Like No Other”… and perhaps even somewhat enlightening.
https://www.therebel.media/ezra_levant_show_may_21_2018
When it comes to food and policy there are no party lines, this has been demonstrated when in 1991 Michael Taylor a Monsanto attorney became the czar of FDA for decades moving in and out of positions, writing gmo policy, dismissing government scientist, and having NO cumpunction for citizen rights or labeling food additives.
Nobody blamed the president back in 2010, but now – it’s the feds doing this – not the state department of ill health! So, no laws have been broken – again? While it is a long time in coming, there certainly was questionable activity at the Trad Foods Warehouse back in 2010, before the June embargo, due to the need for profiteering by the recent (non-foodie) ownership change. The main reason why Will Winter sold his half of TFMN to this peaceful farmer was to find relief of the battle to maintain the integrity with which the club was established. I was paying $1000/mth for rented space – for more than a year, to support this endeavor. Will asked for $3000 to transfer ownership in hopes that I could recover the sanity of the original idea. I owned half of the TRMN Warehouse “business” for like a week before SHTF:( There is a chapter in a future book about all that was happening there in regard to private food, not all was legal as it replicated commercial business. The reality is that there is a way to fix the access challenge, but it takes some commitment. We’ve been doing it the legal way for most of those 8 years, but it’s not convenient to require planning and consistent support. Human nature wants you to be smart and shop around, make no commitments and serve yourself! Our foodie community has proven that healthy folks are willing to share their energy and work toward more sustainable food but only, it seems, when there is a crisis at hand. We’ve had hundreds of families connect with their farm food over this near decade of real food access. If you really want change, don’t cry but participate:)
So… Co-op style – NO government intervention:
Once. weekly platform – – just a party with friends. People do it all the time for candles, jewelry, Amway, Avon, Tupperware and so on. Why the heck not food?
Requires only 26 – 52 members. Must be “local” though.
Meet at someone’s home 1x – 2x per year.
Do business – cash only.
Tell govt to go F***.
No license. Very little overhead. No taxes (oh NO!!) –
When we all finally take the decision that we will not tolerate the BS anymore, we will make the sacrifices and the effort to STOP TAKING IT.
The only way to win a game is to know the players. Doesn’t matter what the rules are because they change with the wind.
It doesn’t require violence. It doesn’t require protests (read what Martin Luther King Jr wrote about protests). It doesn’t require letters, phone calls or emails. It CERTAINLY doesn’t require new laws. More laws only make more criminals. Its all a farce. See through it – see past it.
What it does require is standing behind the conviction that “this” is what you want. That is the difference between wanting and accomplishment.
I LOVE THIS COMMENT
Here what the real problem regulators should focused on:
Why E. coli romaine lettuce outbreak mystifies scientists
https://vegetablegrowersnews.com/news/why-e-coli-romaine-lettuce-outbreak-mystifies-scientists/
Nothing mystifying about it at all. Water was the contaminant. Bacteria from CAFO’s the reason. FDA let this happen over 42 years ago. A release that has never been dealt with for safety, other than irradiating most beef products and many other food varieties in processes that also kill nutrition.
When is a news reporter ever going to get the guts to write about how super virulent pathogens are created? Its not by natures hand
Its in the lab or under conditions when pathogens become stressed like antibiotic abuse or attempts at pasteurization.
Nature does not naturally create super virulent pathogens. Pathogens yes….but not virulent pathogens. These are the super adapted sole survivors of an attempt on their lives.
Then and only then will we stop blaming farmers for illnesses caused by pathogens.
Its the pharmacudicals that created Frankin Killer Pathogens. Not the farmers.
Sue the Pharma companies for pathogen illnesses.
Mark,
Besides pharmaceuticals, it may also be pesticides such as glyphosate. This pesticides messes with microbes.
Glyphosate is patented as a antibiotic. It is used in such abundance it is appearing everywhere – soil, rain, water, food (probably even in the salad dressing put on the lettuce). Eating organic may reduce exposure. We are constantly being exposed to this pesticide like it not. How might this messing with microbes influence susceptibility to getting sick from various pathogens?
Dear Sylvia,
Do you believe in compassion or humanity ? How about morals or ethics? Are you a narcissist, a liar, a bully, a racist or white supremist ?
I don’t think you are. Why would you vote for one? His own team has referred to him as a moron and idiot.
These are not words of hate. These are words of despair.i am searching for why anyone can rationalize voting for the ass….you call him. I love my country and hate seeing it torn apart.
if you truly do love America, Mark McAffee, first thing you can do, is = quit with the hyper-partisan hyper-ventilating … so far, you’ve disgraced all respect I had for you.
When it comes to the psychodrama of national politics, your palaver demonstrates you as just another case of arrested adolescence … an SJ snowflake, characterologically unable to deal with what the rest of us call “objective reality”.
PRESIDENT Trump is there for the duration. Rather than giving yourself permission to go crazy, polluting this forum with your non-sense, see if you can maintain a modicum of civility, meanwhile.
Mark, I have read various name calling of and by every single POTUS since I can remember.
The only difference is the media has not curbed in any way their out-right hate of Trump. It is palpable and nauseating. The majority thought Clinton was a shoe-in and are still in denial.
I believe many voted for Trump because they did not want Clinton in. If you go back to 2014-15 and read the democrat blogs, many stated back then they would not vote for her, for various reasons. I have no doubt that had there been someone viable running against Trump, they would have won by a landslide. Neither main party or the smaller parties had anyone worth being POTUS.
You put the two most disliked people in the USA up for POTUS and the least hated won. That is it in a nutshell.
As far as I can tell, Carter has been the only one NOT to cheat on his wife, he also lied the less. GWB (also called a moron & idiot)has been too high on whatever he snorts to cheat(he may have cheated, I really could care less), he spewed constant “word salad” (much like Pelosi & Waters). LBJ? OMG what a bloody pervert and racist…is putting it mildly. I could go on, the history of our POTUS’ is like reading seedy novels.
As I had said, we were given two choices (face it the others running didn’t stand a chance). Of those two choices, I can pretty much come close to guessing where Trump is going; where Clinton would have taken us? I shudder to even imagine.
Have you read his book, “The Art of the Deal”? Have you read “The Art of War”? “The Art of War”, is a short book, around 2000 years old, I think it originated in China. That is how he apparently does business, or so it seems to me. Many professionals use those methods for success, the techniques can be applied to anything.
” compassion or humanity ? How about morals or ethics”
These are individual beliefs. Morals? I think those Hollyweird people look like two-bit-sluts in their clothes that leave nothing to the imagination. The media has for decades, promoted trash, ill-or no manner/respect, so on and so on and son. That is my opinion, they obviously don’t believe the same as I. They had decades of letting the cat out of the bag of the perverts sexually abusing children,men and women, yet they remained silent? Where is the compassion and humanity there? I can only assume they loved their money more than the next human. I have very high ethics in personal and in my business life.
I don’t listen to Trump speak, nor did I listen to any of the others, ALL politicians lie. I watch what they do and the results.
“narcissist, a liar, a bully, a racist or white supremist ?”
Here again, I think Carter was the only NON-narcissist. The rest, yes they are, some more so than others. As stated above, ALL politicians are liars, apparently it goes with the job. A bully? No, I would call him a boar, not a bully.
Racist:per Thefreedictionary:”1. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.”
Nope, never had that belief, and since my family is full of colors…My mother always said, there is only one race, the human race.
Since I don’t believe as a racist, then I certainly cannot be a “white supremacist” since I believe no race is superior to another.
As for Trump having these attributes; per his history with assisting inner cities (there are photos of appreciation with Rosa Parks, Mohamid Ali, and others. He has placed the most women in high level jobs, more so that any other president and he has also done so in his business life and he has women and men of color in high positions. He has helped people in need, without being asked. And yes he puts himself as Superman for helping, in the grand scheme of things, he made an effort to help others and that’s what counts. If his insecurity requires him to pat his own back, I think that is harmless. I ignore stupid stuff like that. Do you really believe him to be a white supremacist? Really? To be honest, as far as I know, I have never met a white supremacist.
Trump does not articulate words well,that is not going to change. What has he done that you think is so bad?
It constantly baffles me when folks vote one of the two major parties, then bitch like crazy when one of those two get elected. Americans, it seems, have become insane!! When one does the same thing over and over and expects a DIFFERENT result iIS the definition of insanity. I rarely vote Demon or Repugnant. AND PLEASE spare me the “wasted vote BS!! I vote the way I CHOOSE, not what mainstream says I should, like most most sheeple do!!
Mark Kurlansky — Milk: A 10,000 Year History
Monday, May 14th, 2018 at 6PM — Labyrinth Books Princeton
http://www.labyrinthbooks.com/events_detail.aspx?evtid=1069
Mark Kurlansky will discuss Milk, his first global food history since the bestselling Cod: A Biography of the Fish that Changed the World and Salt: A World History. Labyrinth and the Princeton Public Library invite you to join the author as he reveals the fascinating cultural, economic, and culinary story of milk and all things dairy–with more than 100 recipes throughout.
Kurlansky is the New York Times bestselling and James A. Beard Award-winning author of 30 books, including Paper: Paging Through History; The Big Oyster: History on a Half Shell; 1968: The Year That Rocked the World and, most recently, Havana: a Subtropical Delirium. He is the recipient of a Bon Appétit American Food and Entertaining Award for Food Writer of the Year, and the Glenfiddich Food and Drink Award for Food Book of the year.
Joseph, have you read this? Is there any mention of the raw milk controversy and how it has evolved? Nothing I could find in the publicity material or interviews with author.
The CBC radio program “The Current” interviewed the author last week. You can listen to the interview at http://www.cbc.ca/radio/thecurrent/the-current-for-may-8-2018-1.4652073/milk-might-be-history-s-most-controversial-food-says-author-1.4652081 .
Here’s a copy-and-paste from the interview transcript at http://www.cbc.ca/radio/thecurrent/the-current-for-may-8-2018-1.4652073/may-8-2018-episode-transcript-1.4654461
AMT: But so that’s really about the production and processing, right. I mean so that gets us to the issue of raw milk. Raw milk sale and distribution is prohibited in Canada. But how dangerous is it?
MK: There’s two ways to answer that, you could say very dangerous or you could say not at all. It depends how it’s produced at the time that pasteurization was learned about and there was a big movement for pasteurization to do something about this horrendous infant mortality, there were people who were arguing against pasteurization and for raw milk and for something they called certified milk, which meant that all the milk would be produced raw, but it would be heavily monitored by regulators and making sure that it was clean and healthy. And there’s absolutely nothing wrong with it. That milk is good to drink and people could argue that it’s actually better than pasteurized milk, because pasteurization kills a lot of good stuff. The problem was that it’s difficult to do. It’s a public health problem. You know, public health people said, ‘oh God, we can’t do all this, let’s just tell everybody they have to pasteurize.’ And then you know it’s all safe and it’s easy to monitor and regulate. And we can go to the dairies and make sure they have pasteurization equipment in place and that’s the end of it. So that’s you know what happened.
AMT: So in essence, it’s not the issue of whether raw milk is good or bad, it’s got more to do with, if you’re making, if you’re producing milk on a large scale it is more convenient to regulate pasteurized milk. It’s easier.
MK: Yes. It’s easier to monitor.
AMT: But it doesn’t mean raw is bad, it just means you have to really know about the origin of where that’s coming from?
MK: Raw isn’t bad at all, assuming it’s taken proper care of.
David,
I am reading the book now and I plan to attend the author event at the bookstore in Princeton. I looked in the bibliography and the long list of books referenced does not include any of the important works of David Gumpert. Neither is Dr. Ron Schmid referenced. This seems to me like a glaring omission. But in the text at least he does mention the good work of Dr. Henry Coit.
My guess is he steered clear of this century’s raw milk controversy….maybe because that would have required a whole separate book. 🙂
David,
Yes, with more research it would have required writing a different kind of book.
I showed up at the book signing wearing my Organic Pastures Raw Milk cap and shirt.
He suggested that public health choose to promote pasteurization over certified milk because it was an easier thing to monitor.
Joseph,
“He suggested that public health choose to promote pasteurization over certified milk because it was an easier thing to monitor.”
That may have been the case initially… However, their attempt to indoctrinate the public and “control” the sale of milk via the “promotion” of pasteurization wasn’t working as well as they had hoped; neither was it wasn’t working in Canada that is, not until legislation was introduced establishing the milk marketing board supply management system. Now although the marketing board was legislated into being in order to address huge surpluses due to overproduction, it also was set up in such a way as to render the sale of raw milk to the public absolutely illegal; an opportunity the tptb couldn’t pass up. I think that is the main difference between Canada where the current sale of raw milk to the public is prohibited, and the US where raw milk can still be purchased legally in most states. Prior to the establishment of supply mangement in Canada raw milk could still be purchased legally at the farm and likely still could be today if dairy farmers hadn’t been coerced and compelled by law to sell their raw milk to the marketing board alone.
Ken,
There is now talk about setting a similar supply management system in the US. How might that impact availability of raw milk?
The more I read of this Milk book by Kurlansky I find his research and analysis rather superficial.
Dr Heckman,
I am very supportive of the Canadian Supply Management System. It is controlled by farmers and has created stability and wealth for farmers.
The American dairy system has choked the family farm and led to consolidation, CAFO environmental contamination and below cost of production milk prices for most of the last 50 years.
As far as supply of raw milk….great question. That depends on how an American supply management system would be designed.
My view is that because raw milk is so difficult and differentiated, it will lie mostly outside of any supply system. However, a system could be created that could include it.
There is so much pain and dysfunction in the American dairy system right now, it will be very interesting to see if our structure changes. It can not continue much longer on its current track. I talk with organic and conventional dairymen all the time. There is support for a Canada like system and it could include organic dairies as well. Organic dairy oversupply is killing itself. Mostly from lack of Pasture Rule enforcement.
your red underwear is showing again, Mark McAffee. If you think “There is so much pain and dysfunction in the American dairy system right now …” it’d pale into insignificance, were the US of A to impose a Soviet-style, centrally-diktated command economy on the dairy industry. A handy example of the terminal stage of the epic-fail which is INEVITABLE after a generation of communism,is : Venezuela, today.
saying “I am very supportive of the Canadian Supply Management System.” shows how out-of-touch you are with the mind of Canadians … who overwhelmingly reject it. Saying “It is controlled by farmers and has created stability and wealth for farmers.” is laughable. In fact; the gigantic food processing corporations keep dairy farmers in serfdom by outlawing the free market in milk/ milk products. And of course : via the hall mark of end-stage communism = outright BRIBES at every level of government.
The Canadian supply management system has an excellent public relations scheme that dairy farmers (many begrudgingly) are compelled to pay for… Given the opportunity its PR personnel could likely convince a Cherub that hell was a desirable place.
Gord is indeed correct, “Saying “It is controlled by farmers and has created stability and wealth for farmers.” is laughable”…
If any one wants to watch a Power Point on the Canadian Supply Management system, please email me and I will send it to you.
It is awesome….and reflects what could be for the USA. We could improve on it.
Ken,
That’s not what the facts say. $28 per cwt is good money for conventional milk. The farmers in Canada we have spoken with love their system. Their bankers also love the strong balance sheets.
Not sure where you are coming from. The facts tell a far different story.
you want “facts”, Mister McAffee? … one of the most important FACTS about the dairy cartel in the Dominion of Canada, to which you are wilfully blind, is : that it protects its monopoly by demonizing its critics, then sending them to gaol for simply organizing a co-operative dairy to feed ourselves. And all the quota-holders warming the pews in the local Dutch Reformed Baal-barns, smugly applaud the Tyrant. No, “butter wouldn’t melt in their mouths”, as my Irish grandmother used to put it. She – who was a’dairying from age 12, in charge of all the milkmaids at the McCoid’s in Belfast – and who milked a cow everafter – would be flabbergasted at the perversion of all that’s right. Not only are do you display disgusting lack of sportsmanship when it comes to national politics … you’re one of the rankest hypocrites I’ve met in 6 decades : happily prospering under the free enterprise in California, meanwhile advocating communism for the rest of us !
Dear friends,
it has been recently announced that Horizon reduced its pay price to all of its remaining organic dairies west of the Mississippi to $22 per cwt. From my experience, it is not possible to purchase organic feeds and inputs and break even at that price.
Wallaby Yogurt is closing its Northern CA plant and moving back east. This closure cut off 6 organic dairies in northern CA area, they no longer have a home for their organic milk.
All of these market elements are caused by the underlying forces related to over supply and that oversupply is due to lack of enforcement of the USDA Pasture Rule. Sitting on the sidelines waiting for change is not the right action for organic dairies to take at this time. Pasture Rule enforcement clearly is required.
“Pasture Rule enforcement clearly is required.” Indeed, Pasture is very important to milk, meat, and egg nutritional quality. Consumers need to know about and demand pasture feeding.
Heckman, J.R. 2015. The Role of Trees and Pastures in Organic Agriculture. Sustainable Agriculture Research. 4: 47-55. http://www.ccsenet.org/journal/index.php/sar/article/view/50105
A FOOD CHAIN RADIO RELEASE FROM METROFARM.COM
To all who eat food: The farmers who grow our food are committing suicide at a rate 500 percent greater than the rest of us. And so we simply must ask….
Why are our farmers committing suicide at a record rate?
This Saturday at 9am Pacific, Michael Olson’s Food Chain Radio Show hosts farmer / psychologist Dr. Mike Rossmann for a conversation about the extraordinary rate of suicide among our farmers..
Topics include include a look at the condictions that lead to despair among farmers; why U.S. farmers are taking their lives at record rates; and what is being done to reduce the suicide rate.
Dr. Heckman,
Here is my list of why Farmers commit suicide:
1. After generations of farming, this is the generation that failed when others somehow made it work. Extreme guilt!
2. There may be an insurance plan that could save their farm or their families.
3. Despair from financial exhaustion.
4. Bank foreclosures and watching their families suffer.
5. Cancellation of dairy contracts and no place to go.
6. Limited social support networks and feeling very alone on the farm with no help!
7. Loss of the warm consumer connection. There is no social recharge. All they have is bad news. Socially and financially.
8. I don’t think you will see any farmers that sell raw milk to consumers committing suicide.
https://youtu.be/2PqvdKj28r0
Farmers over Pharmacies.
Bone broth and Raw Milk Kefir saves a child’s life from severe asthma.
Critical care through Gut Biome deep nutrition.
Yesterday saw something fascinating. I was even more impressed than the five year old kids that I was showing around on the farm tour.
I took my shovel and dig into some of our newly irrigated pasture dirt. This pasture had been grazed and then mowed to reduce any weeds to surface compost.
The surface was teaming with earth worms. Not just a few, much huge numbers of them all in the surface area eating away at the dead compost left by the mower dead weeds that provided a layer of carbon. The kids loved it and I had never seen this before. I knew I had earth worms and soil vitality, but this was crazy living dirt. It smelled so good!!
Mark,
Here are a few earthworm facts I think you will find interesting…
https://creation.com/wonderful-worms
“Earthworms drag organic material from the surface into the ground. They also swallow huge amounts of earth, digest the nutritive matter it contains, then cast up the remains on to the surface of the ground or in their burrows. In this way they work at a constant and effective system of ploughing, which enriches and oxygenates the soil. An average acre (0.4 hectare) may house three million earthworms, which can move about 18 tonnes of soil per year.”
“THINK”… We need to seriously think about the overall effect of applying millions of gallons of chemical soil sterilants on fields across North America and around the world. Indeed, with special emphasis of their effect on the essential earthworm and on the equally essential dung beetle, other insects and microorganisms that all work together at maintaining vigorous soil and wholesome plant growth???
Mark
I think your point #7 is really interesting: I have heard many raw dairy producers comment on how they value the “warm consumer connection”.
I would like to see a survey conducted to see what motivates raw dairy producers. I suspect it is more than business income.
loss of warm consumer connection” … that one’s especially ludicrous when set against how the dairy racket operates in Canada. A few years ago, the mega-dairy just down the road from our REAL MILK cowshare, opened its doors for public viewing. But reaction was so negative, that they soon quit! A year or so later, one of the local major players pled guilty to charges of animal cruelty. CAFO dairies in this sorry Dominion are HIDING OUT from the people who supposedly buy their product. Why-ever would that be… yet Mister McAffee wants the Canadian epic-fail visited on you!! to his ilk, – the die-hard crypto-commie – communism is a religion
Dear Watson,
My comment about the warm consumer connection was very specific to sales of raw milk from farmer to consumer. Not sales of milk that gets lost into the abyss of faceless processed dairy products.
Welcome to some more deja vu.
Quote from Dr. Vandana Shiva (I have much respect for this lady):
“Bayer and Monsanto: A Marriage Made in Hell
Vandana Shiva: First thing that people should remember is Monsanto and Bayer were one during the war. They were called Mobay. They worked together to sell poisons on both sides of the war. It’s only after the IG Farben trial at Nuremberg that the separation took place. So, in a way, the Bayer-Monsanto merger of the contemporary times is just a coming together in an open way of a hidden marriage that always was there. Second, even if you look at cross licensing arrangements, they’ve been working together.”
The whole thing is beyond shocking and will effect the way we all eat from now on. Our food freedom has been eroded once more, to a terrible degree.
Read the rest of the article here:
https://www.globalresearch.ca/the-bayer-monsanto-merger-empowering-a-life-destroying-cartel/5641082
Also, I have just finished reading the book called Hell’s Cartel by Diarmuid Jeffreys about IG Farben and the making of Hitler’s war machine. I had to stop reading every once in a while and take a breather from the book because it’s topic is so dreadful. The book is available on Kindle, which is where I read it, if anyone is interested.
Before starting to read the book on IG Farben, I had just finishing reading Voices in the Stones by Kent Nerburn; the book on Farben was a jolt to the mind I can tell you. Voices was such an inspiring, beautiful read and then to plunge into the underbelly of IG Farben was like having ice cold water poured onto my head.
It’s all very interesting though, and it’s stuff everyone who eats should be aware of at some point in the next few months, IMPO.
The new trending word I heard last week in LA….WOKE.
As in somebody is …WOKE. As in awoken, conscious etc.
Gonna start using it, but few deserve it.
Raw milk debate in congress: https://www.c-span.org/video/?445404-3/house-debate-unpasteurized-milk-amendment-farm-bill
More about this at http://www.foodsafetynews.com/2018/05/house-members-ignore-party-lines-defeat-raw-milk-measure .
And every single state initiative to legalize or expand legalization in 2016 failed, and there were 11 of them. They all failed (or were shoved into a committee to die or mummify) due to the issue of “raw milk outbreaks.”
Again, it all comes down to science – specifically, to epidemiology. Raw milk supporters – myself included – are going to have to tackle the issue of raw milk safety before laws will change for the better.
This proposal mandating such measures such as warning labels plus instructions on home-pasteurization (both of which only reinforce John Sheehan’s notion that this is an inherently dangerous product), is about the same as the tactics of labeling raw milk as “cosmetics” — no public policy decision maker in their right mind is going to believe that everyone’s going to be cooking the milk first (or bathing in it). This avoids the issues of outbreaks and does nothing to tackle the public messaging of the CDC (go to CDC.gov and type “raw milk” into the search-bar – you’ll see what I mean).
Instead of this approach of warning labels and home pasteurization instructions — both of which imply that raw milk cannot be safely produced — why didn’t the proponents of interstate distribution follow the lead of other agricultural sectors and propose a program of Federal standards for raw milk production would have been a prudent alternative — similar to national standards in England, France, Germany, NZ, etc. — and based on current raw milk safety science such as test results from RAWMI-trained farmers?
HACCP-based food safety systems work. They cut E.coli illnesses caused by the meat industry by 42% over the next 7 yrs after they were implemented with the aid of the in 1997 (see https://www.cdc.gov/foodnet/annual/2004/report.pdf . Other agricultural sectors are implementing them, called “OFFS” (for on-farm food safety) programs. So why not this approach, of food safety systems, for raw milk as well?
Vera,
“Pseudoscience” is the excuse the FDA uses to justify its current irrational interstate transport ban on raw milk between states where raw milk sales are legal.
Indeed, “warning labels plus instructions on home-pasteurization only reinforce John Sheehan’s” and the germaphobe’s “notion that raw milk is an inherently dangerous product”. If it was truly about food safety then one think that there should be an interstate ban on the transport of spinach and lettuce!!!
The CDC is “a cesspool of corruption”!!!
As far as “standards for raw milk production” including “RAWMI” are concerned, they too reinforce John Sheehan’s notion when in truth they only represent a makeshift/band aid solution to a much more deep-rooted problem.
Ken: ““Pseudoscience” is the excuse the FDA uses to justify its current irrational interstate transport ban on raw milk between states where raw milk sales are legal. ”
I agree with you, Ken. But we can call it pseudoscience until the cows come home, but unless we can get that statement published in a peer-reviewed journal, supported by evidence, our opinions are meaningless.
Please forgive the errors in sentence structure and punctuation in my last comment – I should have double-checked my editing before pressing “Submit Comment,” instead of rushing to write this before having to meet an unrelated deadline. Hopefully it all still makes sense.
Vera, I have no doubt you are correct that 11 state raw milk initiatives failed to pass in 2016. I would take issue with your assumption that they all failed because of “raw milk outbreaks.” What evidence do you have of that? If you point to the testimony by public health and medical officials, they have been using that as their reason for opposing all liberalization of raw milk availability for the past dozen years. Yet any number of states have liberalized availability of raw milk, either via the legislature or fiat (by state AG, for example), or via local initiative (in several places in Massachusetts and Maine).
I’ll offer a couple of other possible reasons the 11 initiatives failed in 2016: 1. The dairy industry and public health communities determined that too much liberalization was taking place, and decided among themselves to more aggressively oppose coming initiatives. 2. Consumer and farmer organizing has fallen off the last couple years, as the food rights community has fragmented over a number of issues (such as fermented cod liver oil).
The Raw Milk Institute pushes HACCP-based food safety systems, and has a great track record on outbreaks. But I seriously doubt that you’d ever convince the public health and medical communities to change their view that raw milk is such a serious health hazard that it shouldn’t be available. They continue to insist that raw milk offers no provable health benefits, despite several large-scale European studies demonstrating that raw milk reduces incidence of allergies and asthma. To them, these studies are “fake news.” This problem of holding on tightly to preconceived views is one plaguing our country in any number of ever more serious ways unrelated to food and health.
Yes, David, the testimony of the state and public health officials is generally what I’d be pointing to. You are correct that the opposition has been using this strategy for well over a dozen years. However, the game-changer happened a few years ago when the CDC launched a campaign against raw milk, which included publishing supposedly “peer-reviewed” (read CDC-reviewed) articles in their in-house journal, such as the classic “Increased outbreaks associated with nonpasteurized milk, United States, 2007-2012” by Mungai, Behravesh and Gould (2015) – https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/21/1/14-0447_article .
This and soundbites from similar pieces (“raw milk is 150x more dangerous” (Langer-et-al), “raw milk is 840x more dangerous” (Costard-et-al), etc.) have then been pushed out to the public and lawmakers by the CDC via intense media campaigns involving CDC and FDA websites, social media, press releases, sending a CDC rep to speak at a NADRO conference (http://nadro.org/uploads/Nichols_CDC_NADRO_2017.pdf), and a letter to state health departments (https://www.cdc.gov/foodsafety/pdfs/raw-milk-letter-to-states-2014-508c.pdf).
So, I would say that around 2015 was when the tide turned and we’re now fighting an up-hill battle against a well-organized opposition. And “evidence-based decision-making” is now the gold standard in public health policy – so state officials want to see the evidence.
To win this battle, I believe that we must fight it on the same playing field: in academic journals. I.e. doing the research and writing the articles which disprove the “findings” that come out of the CDC. For example, the mathematical models and assumptions used in some of the CDC papers – do they hold up to scrutiny?
Government officials have said that they want to see (peer-reviewed) published studies showing that raw milk can be safely produced. We can do it. We should do it.
And yes, I suspect that the CDC has a political agenda, doing the bidding of Sheehan who is working on behalf of his former colleagues in the processed dairy industry. Similarly, see this article for more about the CDC’s modus operandi: http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/healthcare/301432-the-cdc-is-being-being-influenced-by-corporate-and-political .
Government agencies do not separate political agendas from science. See for examples in the book Whitewash by Carey Gillam. https://islandpress.org/book/whitewash
This was pointed out to me as the Canadian government’s reasons why they won’t legalize raw milk: fear of outbreaks.
Two letters from Health Canada to a Mr. Barrett:
https://rawmilkpolicy.files.wordpress.com/2018/01/health-canada-km-to-rb-2017-11-22.pdf
https://rawmilkpolicy.files.wordpress.com/2018/01/health-canada-km-to-rb-2018-01-05.pdf
The first letter mentions the letter from the CDC to all state health departments in 2014 that I mentioned above (see (https://www.cdc.gov/foodsafety/pdfs/raw-milk-letter-to-states-2014-508c.pdf). I should mention that this letter is based on information published several months later (Jan 2015) in the Mungai-et-al study. Funny that the result of a “scientific study” would be sent out via letter even before the study was formally published in a “journal”.
The second letter to Mr. Barrett says: “In your correspondence, you mention having new studies and information regarding raw
milk. Whenever new Canadian and/or international information concerning raw milk arises, this information is carefully reviewed by scientists in the Food Directorate. We would encourage you to forward any published studies to the Food Directorate’s Bureau of Microbial Hazards at the following email address: bmh_bdm@hc
-sc.gc.ca “.
In summary: The prohibition in Canada is based on information being spread in the CDC’s inflammatory campaign against raw milk. The Canadian federal government wants to see peer-reviewed science before they consider changing the law.
Another way to work towards fair evidence-based policies on raw milks is to challenge the assumption that outbreaks tell the whole story. Two basic methods of risk assessment were described by the UK Food Standards Agency: ‘top-down’ reasoning from epidemiologic data on cases of illness ‘down’ to suspect foods; and ‘bottom-up’ reasoning from food microbiology data in normal (not suspect) foods ‘up’ to number and severity of cases of illness estimated from simulated servings. Outbreaks do NOT describe the safety record.
From a microbiologist’s perspective, the bottom-up approach relies on stronger evidence from controlled studies. Outbreak data are typically not causal, but correlative, weakened by confounding factors.
Evidence from the bottom-up approach includes studies that demonstrate that the milk microbiota reduces pathogen viability, growth, and invasion.
The number of servings from licensed farms around the world that have not caused illness would be more relevant to evidence-based policy than correlative data from outbreaks. I hope we can work together to compile the evidence that argues this point.
“Every time there’s an outbreak of measles or mumps, the media brings up Dr. Andrew Wakefield and a certain 1998 scientific paper. The problem is that the majority of mainstream coverage gets virtually everything about this wrong. This false narrative is being used to justify drastic public policy initiatives, so it’s more important than ever that accurate information be available. Below are 8 myths repeated ad nauseum by the mainstream media, along with the facts which paint a truer picture.”
http://thinkingmomsrevolution.com/discerning-journalist-8-wakefield-myths-deconstructed/
‘In summary, Dr. Wakefield is a person of integrity and a very qualified professional. He did not falsify data. He studied sick children in an effort to help them.
‘And he is not the cause of the “anti-vaccine movement.” He responded to parents’ concerns; he did not cause those concerns. He does not have powers of mass hypnosis. Vaccine concerns existed then and still exist now independent of him.
‘The question of whether the MMR causes autism and inflammatory bowel disease needs further study, not suppression via disparagement and scapegoating of Dr. Andrew Wakefield. Journalists need to do their jobs, scratch beneath the surface, and look at the facts instead of simply parroting talking points.”
MR. MASSIE
MILK LOBBY DOESN’T LIKE MY AMENDMENT. IN FACT, THE LACTOSE LOBBY IS INTOLERANT OF FREEDOM. BUT I AM HERE TODAY TO TAKE UP FOR CONSUMERS AND SMALL FARMERS AND STATES’ RIGHTS AND I URGE MY COLLEAGUES TO VOTE YES ON THIS, REJECT PASTEURIZATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION. ALLOW THE TRANSFER OF RAW MILK BETWEEN TWO STATES THAT’S LEGAL.
Massie said it like it is….proud of him. RAWMI has nailed the food safety issues commonly associated with illnesses. Is RAWMI produced raw milk perfect…darn near. The risk is so low it is hard to compute the significance. When compared to what? Cantaloupes, pasteurized cheeses, raw cheeses, pasteurized milk…tomatoes, veggies, spinach, Romaine Lettuce, eggs…pasteurized ice-cream. That’s a pretty big list of killers. You will notice that Raw Milk is not on the Killer List!!
This is all about intentional ( faking that 18 EU studies don’t exist and RAWMI standards don’t work! ) ignorance and protection of the processors. They bury their heads in the dirt because change and freedom of consumer consumption would hurt the processing industry. That’s it in a NUT shell.
Still at the grass roots stage. But we are getting closer and closer. When the LACTOSE LOBBY loses 3% of their fluid sales every year for the last 7 years…there are only a few more years left before they are completely done. Faking that their is no science or that RAWMI standards don’t exist…will not last forever. At least we are in the national discussion in the halls of congress.
When that guy from Oregon suggested a reference to China as a warning about raw milk that was crazy. “Melamine in pasteurized Chinese milk” verses USA RAWMI LISTED raw milk! What was he talking about!?? The guy was a NUT job! Where was fact check when your need them?
Can someone tell me who the speaker from Oregon was? He was not identified. He needs to be identified and given a lesson in food safety including: China verses America and Pasteurized verses Raw by every raw milk drinker in America.
Does any one vet and check the facts on the people given the microphone on the floors of congress? Obviously not. I guess the truth and facts have really escaped the conversation. Its rampant.
“Melamine in pasteurized Chinese milk”…verses tested pure RAWMI produced USA raw milk. That’s the lie that takes the cake!! I am aghast.
Science for Sale: How the US Government Uses Powerful Corporations and Leading Universities to Support Government Policies, Silence Top Scientists, Jeopardize Our Health, and Protect Corporate Profits https://www.amazon.com/Science-Sale-Government-Corporations-Universities/dp/1626360715#customerReviews
“Science for Sale: How the US Government Uses Powerful Corporations and Leading Universities to Support Government Policies, Silence Top Scientists, Jeopardize Our Health, and Protect Corporate Profits”
Exactly… and it doesn’t matter how science based ones argument is, the powers that be will hire influential “nut jobs” such as, “that guy from Oregon” who use specious reasoning to obfuscate the issue. The tobacco industry, the vaccine industry, the toxic chemical industry, and the processed milk industry are all guilty of the above.
Thanks for sharing so many links to stimulating source material.